Custom "retard" mapping?

[GrayMK5GTI]

I think someone is telling porkies here. I do not believe for one minute that R-Tech map EVERY single car differently.  

They will do EXACTLY what Revo do. I.E take the car, apply map, drive the car and alter the boost timing and fuelling to suit the car so it's running safe.

I seriously doubt Nick/R-Tech has the time to do what you are saying. Maybe on a select few cars they have sat on a Dyno and done what you say. But I think it would be a handful at most.

What you are saying they are doing would take a couple of days worth of mapping, data logging and fine tuning. From what I gather from people's posts they get the car back after a couple of hours at most. Hardly a "Custom" map. I've still yet to have someone convince me that a car can be set up on the rolling road better than the actual road. If that was the case then no Motorsport team or car manufacturer would do on road testing or drive the ring etc. it would all be done on a Dyno.

Each to there own and all that but I think some common sense needs to be applied.

Custom as in fine tuned to the specific hardware of the car (repeating myself again  ) not adjusting boost, timing and fuel across the whole rev range by a single setting. . .

I was there for 2.5hrs when my GTI was getting the stage 1 treatment. Nick was forever tweaking things and dynoing again until it was right. depends on what extent of tune your going for, as said above a base map is applied then fine tuned til it's perfect. You tweak all the factors where needed until everything is sweet.

James's was on the dyno for 2 days solid and ED30Dom's will be on for a similar amount of time.

Nick always shows you what he is doing for example when he's adjusting the actuator to change the spool of the turbo it's all there on the PC in front of you

Take it you haven't read Saint Steves review, that sums the whole process up brilliantly.

[vRS Carl]

As I said earlier, Steve thought supperchips was comparable to Revo. 

Now all of a sudden due to some mystic forces R-Tech is the map of the millennium.

I went to Revo HQ and they had my car for about 90mins when they mapped it. Doesn't mean all of a sudden it's a bespoke custom map for my car. 

[xjay1337]

But it is better than a Revo map...

On what basis though? You must have first hand experience of having both?

No. I've seen dyno charts. I've had my TFSI like 3 weeks. Prior to that I had a diesel which originally was breathed on by Rtech, and they were the only company after spending 20 minutes researching, who were worth visiting.

R-tech are hardly an emerging brand in the UK, they are very well known within the VAG community. Just as much so as Revo, to the "enthusiasts" at least.

They might well be well known in the VAG scene but that is predominantly with the 1.8T which is vastly different to the 2.0TFSI and they are new with the 2.0TFSI in comparison.  Hence all this very recent R&D done on James K04 and posting about how they cant wait to start working on a BT 2.0TFSI setup.   I asked about getting my twincharger mapped there and they werent interested in developing software for a couple more years. So, say they decide next month that they are going to start 1.4TSI R&D, does the fact that they are well renowned in the VAG scene make up for the 3-4 years of extra R&D and tuning experience thes e "flash tuners" have on the 1.4TSI....no it doesnt.

They are doing a lot of work on the 1.8Ts, because they have been around for a lot, lot longer. What's wrong with research and development? I've not read the posts but who really cares - they are developing things in the right way. Always on the safe side.. and then when they know the limits, they push the boundaries.

As I said previously, I had a TDI which originally had an R-tech map. After a while, I stuck some larger injectors in and called up R-Tech if they could tweak my map for me. They said no - And explained why, that it would take him a whole day to just understand how the injectors work with that engine and that turbo, and then the usual mapping time on top of it - making it expensive, which I can completely understand.
Instead I went to somewhere (not a Revo etc) else who, frankly, did a mediocore job. Why work on something you don't fully understand, or that would be cost-prohibitive to the customer.

For a tuner to turn away work for a valid reason, that takes integrity.
And at the end of the day this is a predominantly 2.0 TFSI forum - not a twincharger set up.. Besides, the 1.4's are so flimsy they generally break a supercharger before you even get a chance to map them unfortunately. 

Rtech are well known BECAUSE of their work. It sells itself.  You go trawling the web, you'll only ever find good reviews.You think that Revo continually develop every map they have? They did it once and then they flash it onto every car.

Nick at Rtech is very very very knowledgeable. Not saying that the chief mappers at Revo aren't but you don't get them mapping your car, you get a map they wrote on ANOTHER car put onto yours, which may be slightly different.

That he might be, but also bear in mind, he doesn't write software from the ground up on every custom map he does as he himself has even pointed this out in several posts on here.  He has developed a solid base map(developed on ANOTHER car) which he will upload and then customize from there.  This is no different really to a REVO maps being applied to the car and the likes of JKM, PDT etc then adjusting the settings and logs to suit the car and mods.

He's admitted it - So that's honesty? And you're trying to use that against him? They are completely different to Revo maps, in terms of, the checks before hand, the fact he only does it with dyno to test things, has the correct logging parameters.
I've seen Revo flash mapping cars at events for £300 (special show prices!!!  ) with no dyno, no checks, nothing. Just a flash and forget. WHICH IS WHAT THEY ARE. And that is NOT what R-tech are.

I don't understand why you'd pay MORE for a map which is less good quality. R-tech are amongst the cheapest and you will get the best maps and the best aftercare in the game.

The quality of which is debatable but I am not getting into that argument as we will just disagree ;)

[Janner_Sy]

But it is better than a Revo map...

On what basis though? You must have first hand experience of having both?

No. I've seen dyno charts. I've had my TFSI like 3 weeks. Prior to that I had a diesel which originally was breathed on by Rtech, and they were the only company after spending 20 minutes researching, who were worth visiting.

In that case, i guess we all bow down to your infinite experience of the 2.0TFSI 

[rich83]

Well to be fair.... if you get a REVO map on offer at a trade stand then thats what you are getting. (they will just load it with "safe" settings)

If you pay a trip to Daventry REVO HQ then every car is logged and tested and adjusted accordingly

REVO is not an inferior product... lets just settle that one shall we. 

[Janner_Sy]

For a tuner to turn away work for a valid reason, that takes integrity.
And at the end of the day this is a predominantly 2.0 TFSI forum - not a twincharger set up.. Besides, the 1.4's are so flimsy they generally break a supercharger before you even get a chance to map them unfortunately.    

err no they dont, thats utter rubbish, not on the 180ps version anyway.  Ive never heard or read of a single supercharger failure on either SCN, VAGOC or briskoda.  Mines happily soaking up stage 3 power.

FWIW, i might have a 1.4TSI now, but before i had a 2.0TFSI.  From what ive read of your replies, this is acting like the stereo typical fanboy.  You have no experience of having either REVO or RTECH on a 2.0TFSI yet you seem to be able to say one is crap and one is awesome.  

also just to add, ive never had REVO on my car either, i chose other companies for all my cars, but I have driven many REVO 2.0TFSI from stage 1 to stage 3 and i know its not a generic setup.  They ahvent lead the market for this many years with a generic product!!

What im trying to point out, is that you cant come out with those sort of statements without any technical back up or personal experience.  Looking at a dyno sheet doesnt tell you how a remap is actually performing with its power delivery.  On another note, which tuners are the fastest on the 30-130 or the 1/4 mile...theres proof there

[vRS Carl]

I think someone is telling porkies here. I do not believe for one minute that R-Tech map EVERY single car differently.  

They will do EXACTLY what Revo do. I.E take the car, apply map, drive the car and alter the boost timing and fuelling to suit the car so it's running safe.

I seriously doubt Nick/R-Tech has the time to do what you are saying. Maybe on a select few cars they have sat on a Dyno and done what you say. But I think it would be a handful at most.

What you are saying they are doing would take a couple of days worth of mapping, data logging and fine tuning. From what I gather from people's posts they get the car back after a couple of hours at most. Hardly a "Custom" map. I've still yet to have someone convince me that a car can be set up on the rolling road better than the actual road. If that was the case then no Motorsport team or car manufacturer would do on road testing or drive the ring etc. it would all be done on a Dyno.

Each to there own and all that but I think some common sense needs to be applied.

Custom as in fine tuned to the specific hardware of the car (repeating myself again  ) not adjusting boost, timing and fuel across the whole rev range by a single setting. . .

I was there for 2.5hrs when my GTI was getting the stage 1 treatment. Nick was forever tweaking things and dynoing again until it was right. depends on what extent of tune your going for, as said above a base map is applied then fine tuned til it's perfect. You tweak all the factors where needed until everything is sweet.

James's was on the dyno for 2 days solid and ED30Dom's will be on for a similar amount of time.

Nick always shows you what he is doing for example when he's adjusting the actuator to change the spool of the turbo it's all there on the PC in front of you

Take it you haven't read Saint Steves review, that sums the whole process up brilliantly.

Revo don't adjust one setting. The boost timing and fuelling go from 1 - 9 so that's 729 possible combinations for a start. Yes it goes across the rev range but that's because they have done hours of R&D and testing on the car to form the base map. I would imagine Nick has the same thing with his map. He can adjust certain parameters within a certain range tolerance. I highly doubt he is rewriting the map code each time he tweaks a setting.

Anyway I can see this going on and on and we will never agree. As long as you're happy with your choice the that's all that matters. Most of us are happy with our maps and I don't ever try and force Revo or big them up. I didn't even mention anything much when I switched from APR to Revo.

If Nick wants to prove to me how good his map is then I'm happy for him to use my car on the proviso that if I'm not satisfied he puts/pays for Revo to be put back on.  

[GrayMK5GTI]

For further clarity, and I hope this isn't what you were implying, but I'm not trying to "force" anything on anyone. Made clear in my above posts. Only trying to get the facts straight.

As said in one of my other posts TIV mapping gives complete control of the ECU so everything can be changed (basically an infinite amount of adjustments) there is no range tolerance (beyond the limits of the hardware)

No one is saying he re-writes the code each time. Again, I've said above that he loads a base map, the range of adjustability is greater (I'm no expert but the ECU in the mk5 has more than 9 different timing settings, for example). As I also said above, all tuners get roughly the same result so figures wise no one is better than the other in the pub bragging sense and ill happily admit that I'd probably be very happy with any reputable map on my car

One final thing worth mentioning is that you hear a lot of great feedback from R-tech customers because they are happy with the service and want to recommend it to others (more so on other forums where r-tech are thought even more of than on here). That speaks volumes.

Your right, we aren't going to agree on this and I'm a bit sick of repeating myself  
 

[xjay1337]

For a tuner to turn away work for a valid reason, that takes integrity.
And at the end of the day this is a predominantly 2.0 TFSI forum - not a twincharger set up.. Besides, the 1.4's are so flimsy they generally break a supercharger before you even get a chance to map them unfortunately.    

err no they dont, thats utter rubbish, not on the 180ps version anyway.  Ive never heard or read of a single supercharger failure on either SCN, VAGOC or briskoda.  Mines happily soaking up stage 3 power.

FWIW, i might have a 1.4TSI now, but before i had a 2.0TFSI.  From what ive read of your replies, this is acting like the stereo typical fanboy.  You have no experience of having either REVO or RTECH on a 2.0TFSI yet you seem to be able to say one is crap and one is awesome.  

also just to add, ive never had REVO on my car either, i chose other companies for all my cars, but I have driven many REVO 2.0TFSI from stage 1 to stage 3 and i know its not a generic setup.  They ahvent lead the market for this many years with a generic product!!

What im trying to point out, is that you cant come out with those sort of statements without any technical back up or personal experience.  Looking at a dyno sheet doesnt tell you how a remap is actually performing with its power delivery.  On another note, which tuners are the fastest on the 30-130 or the 1/4 mile...theres proof there

Fanboy? Lol mate jog on. I read reviews from owners who have had Revo,Bluefin,Superchips etc, and then had an R-tech map, and various other peoples input, and then make a balanced decision on what I have seen.
Fanboy is blindly supporting them.
I support R-tech because of the quality of work, the willingness to give advice and the overall professionalism of the service they provide.
Plus I have dealy with them before.

I have not seen 30-130 but who really cares? Apart from Plonkas. You can make any car fast flat out, what about nice smooth power that builds with good mid range?
As for quarter miles as I found out at Santa Pod at Springfest, times can vary wildly depending on launch, wind, gearchanges, etc. It's an idea but arguing over a few tenths here and there doesn't really prove anything unless on the same track at the same time with both drivers getting good launches and gear changes.
A dyno chart is plenty enough to see how the power is delivered. As that's what its purpose is!

When you see a huge torque spike at 3000rpm followed by flat line, to the redline, that's not a good map.
It's all about "under the graph" area, increasing power and torque over the WHOLE rev-range not just mapping it with a huge spike in the power to make it feel super-duper fast and fry your clutch.

I would  have a Revo map on my car BUT
I wouldn't pay their extortionate prices. They are more expensive than R-techs custom maps and not tailored to your style of driving or exact car/exact mods.
I would only get one as part of the occasional £150 deal that comes up. And then after a few months I would still take it to R-tech.

The TIV mapping is just off the chain.

As said above, we are all going to argue if we carry on so I've said my piece and will leave it at that.

[Hedge]

[GrayMK5GTI]

^ now that's one of your best Hedge 

[rich83]

For a tuner to turn away work for a valid reason, that takes integrity.
And at the end of the day this is a predominantly 2.0 TFSI forum - not a twincharger set up.. Besides, the 1.4's are so flimsy they generally break a supercharger before you even get a chance to map them unfortunately.    

err no they dont, thats utter rubbish, not on the 180ps version anyway.  Ive never heard or read of a single supercharger failure on either SCN, VAGOC or briskoda.  Mines happily soaking up stage 3 power.

FWIW, i might have a 1.4TSI now, but before i had a 2.0TFSI.  From what ive read of your replies, this is acting like the stereo typical fanboy.  You have no experience of having either REVO or RTECH on a 2.0TFSI yet you seem to be able to say one is crap and one is awesome.  

also just to add, ive never had REVO on my car either, i chose other companies for all my cars, but I have driven many REVO 2.0TFSI from stage 1 to stage 3 and i know its not a generic setup.  They ahvent lead the market for this many years with a generic product!!

What im trying to point out, is that you cant come out with those sort of statements without any technical back up or personal experience.  Looking at a dyno sheet doesnt tell you how a remap is actually performing with its power delivery.  On another note, which tuners are the fastest on the 30-130 or the 1/4 mile...theres proof there

Fanboy? Lol mate jog on. I read reviews from owners who have had Revo,Bluefin,Superchips etc, and then had an R-tech map, and various other peoples input, and then make a balanced decision on what I have seen.
Fanboy is blindly supporting them.
I support R-tech because of the quality of work, the willingness to give advice and the overall professionalism of the service they provide.
Plus I have dealy with them before.

I have not seen 30-130 but who really cares? Apart from Plonkas. You can make any car fast flat out, what about nice smooth power that builds with good mid range?
As for quarter miles as I found out at Santa Pod at Springfest, times can vary wildly depending on launch, wind, gearchanges, etc. It's an idea but arguing over a few tenths here and there doesn't really prove anything unless on the same track at the same time with both drivers getting good launches and gear changes.
A dyno chart is plenty enough to see how the power is delivered. As that's what its purpose is!

When you see a huge torque spike at 3000rpm followed by flat line, to the redline, that's not a good map.
It's all about "under the graph" area, increasing power and torque over the WHOLE rev-range not just mapping it with a huge spike in the power to make it feel super-duper fast and fry your clutch.

I would  have a Revo map on my car BUT
I wouldn't pay their extortionate prices. They are more expensive than R-techs custom maps and not tailored to your style of driving or exact car/exact mods.
I would only get one as part of the occasional £150 deal that comes up. And then after a few months I would still take it to R-tech.

The TIV mapping is just off the chain.

As said above, we are all going to argue if we carry on so I've said my piece and will leave it at that.

Yes they are mate....  

[vRS Carl]

What I am amazed at is how R-Tech can suddenly make all their customers experts in the field of tuning. 

But at the end of the day......

[GrayMK5GTI]

  all part of the service

That's what I mean when I say Nick shows you what he is doing. May suggest a lot of you Revo boys are "experts" of their products. . .

Wonder how many of the 700ish setting combinations are actually used. For example, b1,t9,f9  would that even work?? Can't see that being optimum on any setup. Recon it's about 8 commonly used settings. Do you use different combinations for different exhausts for example? Like  Milltek or BCS? Can't see the limited adjustability being able to cater for different flow characteristics of an exhaust. . . Anyway, neither of us see experts so the whole debate may be flawed 

Anyway, I agree with the caption.

Come on Hedge throw us a "thanks" for this one  

[Saintsteve]

Just to add,  it took my car 6 hours of setting up at RTech. From old map removal to adjustments and tweeks with the new TiV map.

In that time I would say about an hour was spent  on Customer education lol.

Well worth the trip :-)

all part of the service

That's what I mean when I say Nick shows you what he is doing. May suggest a lot of you Revo boys are "experts" of their products. . .

Wonder how many of the 700ish setting combinations are actually used. For example, b1,t9,f9  would that even work?? Can't see that being optimum on any setup. Recon it's about 8 commonly used settings. Do you use different combinations for different exhausts for example? Like  Milltek or BCS? Can't see the limited adjustability being able to cater for different flow characteristics of an exhaust. . . Anyway, neither of us see experts so the whole debate may be flawed  

Anyway, I agree with the caption.

Come on Hedge throw us a "thanks" for this one  

 


Nicki doesn't roll cars out every couple of hours, He will book in no more then a couple cars a day, and will work till they are complete. No start/finish times at Rtech. The working day is done when no more can be done.

I've said enough of what I think of Nicki.

Several people have been since my review and not one has disagreed with anything I've posted. Nuff said.