New S3 pricing released

[Top Cat]

I don't think you would, I used to think that aswell, but I know for a fact, unless speeds are kept up above 50mph throughout the "run" you wouldn't stand a chance.

I learned that in my 360hp Cupra vs my mates 400hp Evo. In a straight line, there was nothing in it, throw in some roundabouts on the dual carriage way we were on at the time and I was left for dead like seriously left behind.

Infact I can back this up further with a example of track driving.

Millteks 400hp time attack golf mk6 vs the 420hp mk6 golf R of rothe Motorsport. Both had pro drivers, both on direzzas, but the golf R was 0.6 of a sec quicker around hockeheim even though it was 220kg heavier.

I am not getting involved in this discussion because i have not driven a S3 or a RS3, but your track/ race car example doesnt stand up. about 2 months ago some one posted up a fully race prepped TTRS for a  Nurburgring event and the 4 wheel drive system had been removed. Obviously we can conclude from this the benefit of the 4wheel drive system was not great enough to beat a lap time of the same car without the weight of the system, no apples and oranges, just one plum.  

[Leonard]

To sumarise Haldex is a little bit sh*t. The end.   If the S3 handled like an Evo which I have had there wouldn't be a problem. Trouble is Haldex feels boring when ur not trying (or cant be bothered to try) which is fine   BUT when you are trying its still sh*t (unlike the Evo) which is bad and sad..... And back on topic the S3 is overpriced as a performance car but about spot on as a WAG chariot  

[Scottymon]

Thought Gen 5 Haldex was pretty good; developed by SAAB before GM killed them and given to VAG in 2012 for the new AWD program.  Not sure they developd the swiss cheese RS3 propshafts though, lol.

[geordie56]

Well said TC i for one seen that article and conclusivley agree with you pal! End of!

[PDT]

I was recently looking at the whole Mk7 gti / RS3 / M135i marketplace and ever since the first press videos of the RS3 I really wanted one.

I had the chance to drive one and was disappointed, then we started getting them in for tuning and had the opportunity to drive them a LOT more, but they never really exited me. But as a 4 door practical family car it was ideal.

I waited as they were still to pricy for my pocket and along came the M135i. Coming from a 500+bhp 135i coupe I really wanted one. Then I saw a 4 door with all the spec I wanted, ex demo M135i and bought it, without even driving one! And it's simply brilliant at everything, massive boot, comfy, quick, fun, very subtle and sounded easily as good as the Audi 5pot. Drives very much like an  E92 M3 on the road and very revvy, doesn't feel like a turbo engine.

Then a customer with an RS3 we had previously tuned came back in for a remap  re-install after a dealer visit had flashed to stock, what the new Audi software install had achieved was to shift even more power to the front wheels as a lame fix for the propshaft  issue, this thing at stage 1 under steered badly enough, with Audis 'fix' it was even worse.


The M135i is far from perfect, steering feel isn't typical BMW brilliance, it's artificial and personally I don't like the brakes, but nothing some pads won't sort. I also think there's some electronic intervention in the braking before the ABS cuts in as I feel the braking being controlled at times, and not by my foot. (Still better than the over servo'd VAG feel)

As a tuner people would expect me to have gone wild with my M135i, but I haven't. It's not yet been tuned in any way, and a weekend drive recently made me think twice about tuning it for loads more power as it doesnt need it (others will want more, but not me. On the dyno it makes 350+bhp and 380ftlb already, I have suspicion it has a bmw software 'upgrade'of sorts anyway) maybe some work on throttle mapping (will try and make a linear map)  and to smooth out a few niggles in the power curves.

But if the new S3 is similarly priced to the M135i, I can see it selling a lot, many people don't care about feel and fun but more about the other features that a 4wd car offers.

[Poverty]

I don't think you would, I used to think that aswell, but I know for a fact, unless speeds are kept up above 50mph throughout the "run" you wouldn't stand a chance.

I learned that in my 360hp Cupra vs my mates 400hp Evo. In a straight line, there was nothing in it, throw in some roundabouts on the dual carriage way we were on at the time and I was left for dead like seriously left behind.

Infact I can back this up further with a example of track driving.

Millteks 400hp time attack golf mk6 vs the 420hp mk6 golf R of rothe Motorsport. Both had pro drivers, both on direzzas, but the golf R was 0.6 of a sec quicker around hockeheim even though it was 220kg heavier.

I am not getting involved in this discussion because i have not driven a S3 or a RS3, but your track/ race car example doesnt stand up. about 2 months ago some one posted up a fully race prepped TTRS for a  Nurburgring event and the 4 wheel drive system had been removed. Obviously we can conclude from this the benefit of the 4wheel drive system was not great enough to beat a lap time of the same car without the weight of the system, no apples and oranges, just one plum.  

That's because there are restrictions on the car (TTRS) in that race series if they keep 4wd. It is therefore faster with fwd and  non of the restrictions which the regulations would place on it of it remained 4wd.

BTCC Audi a4, Audi imsa GTO, and r32 skyline all 4wd and all banned from race series due their 4wd system being deemed an unfair and dominating advantage.

P.s

I've seen the Audi literature on the haldex update. It only alters the load shift on launch, therefore it cannot be any worse than how it was under normal driving.

TTRS users who have had the updated say they haven't noticed any real difference either.

The Audi memo states that the power shift under launch is just less aggressive. I'll see if I can find the exact wording tomorrow.

[rich83]

The btcc a4... Rear wheel drive afaik.

[Janner_Sy]

http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar

Built for the VLN race series whic allows 4wd setups

[Poverty]

http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar

Built for the VLN race series whic allows 4wd setups

Yes but there are different classes.

If they kept 4wd and gave it more power it would be in the same class as the r8 gt lms, why compete against yourself. Leave it fwd with less power and compete in class below

[Poverty]

The btcc a4... Rear wheel drive afaik.

You are thinking too modern. I'm talkin B5 Audi, with the factory Audi effort with frank biela driving iirc.

Quattro got banned.


It might also be worth noting that in the targa Tasmania Tarmac rally the top 3 cars of the last 3 years have all been 4wd. Gallardo, GTR and TTRS dominating.

The porka GT2 RS, GT3's etc can't get close. I can only imagine that's due down to the fact the 4wd gives those 3 a big advantage with all the lower speed corners and hairpins. Oh and the Evo's can't match the pace of the TTRS either, so much for their superior 4wd system, and the evos are waaaaay waaaay more developed in terms of aftermarket race parts than the TTRS.


But back to s3 pricing now.
I think 30k isn't bad, that's not including any options, of course, but it doesn't include the dealer discount you are going to inevitably negotiate either.

[rich83]

Ok.... My mistake. In all honesty I don't think that a 4x4 would be that much of an advantage in btcc...... We digress.

[Poverty]

Ok.... My mistake. In all honesty I don't think that a 4x4 would be that much of an advantage in btcc...... We digress.

Ok quick history lesson on the b5 A4.


it was banned in BTCC ( british touring car campionship) after Frank Biela literaly destroyed the rest of the field with 1995 A4 touring.In 1996,when audi won 7 out of 7 championships
(germany,sweden,UK,South Africa,Italy,Belgium,Spain,New Zeland) the quattro was banned in any touring or supertouring competetition in 1998, even after the continues increases of weight penalties against them.

[rich83]

Ok.... My mistake. In all honesty I don't think that a 4x4 would be that much of an advantage in btcc...... We digress.

Ok quick history lesson on the b5 A4.


it was banned in BTCC ( british touring car campionship) after Frank Biela literaly destroyed the rest of the field with 1995 A4 touring.In 1996,when audi won 7 out of 7 championships
(germany,sweden,UK,South Africa,Italy,Belgium,Spain,New Zeland) the quattro was banned in any touring or supertouring competetition in 1998, even after the continues increases of weight penalties against them.

Cool story bro....

[George]

Back to the S3...

I'm not keen that there are so many options for wheels, especially as they are all the same size. In my opinion this loses model identity.  There should be two options, 18" and 19".

I think the saloon as a better styled car, although an S3 coupe to rival the 135i coupe would even better

[rich83]

Or.... a really nice 2nd hand Boxster for 30K. I know where my money would be going.