System Too Lean off Idle P2177

[Saintsteve]

Fair do's fella for replying.   

[SyntaxTerror]

Thanks for the info gents, genuinely appreciate the input

Sorry for the late response, but i've had bigger problems :( - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,69114.msg749844.html

When it rains, it pours! :(

I'll log the rail pressure and missfires when im back with VCDS on monday, i'll likely be taking the car back to Tuningwerkes who've been working on her so far.

Will keep this thread updated

[Evan@APR]

Thanks for the info gents, genuinely appreciate the input

Sorry for the late response, but i've had bigger problems :( - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,69114.msg749844.html

When it rains, it pours! :(

I'll log the rail pressure and missfires when im back with VCDS on monday, i'll likely be taking the car back to Tuningwerkes who've been working on her so far.

Will keep this thread updated

Man that sucks! Sorry to hear SyntaxTerror  :(

Please, before you log misfires or rail pressure, first have Tuningwerkes check the intake system for any leaks or put the stock airbox back on to remove the induction kit from the diagnostic equation! Doing so will be very helpful.

Looking forward to updates. Feel free to email me directly if you need any immediate assistance. elight@goapr.com

[SyntaxTerror]

Thanks Evan!

FYI there is no CEL being thrown, only intermittent logs, but i've definitely noticed the car being a LOT less responsive recently, with a little low end jitter.

I had a quick check over the intake today and, after removing it, found that the screw at the bottom of the cone cover was missing! A guy in hardware at work found me the same M5 size, so i've popped this in. Everything was then re-torqued.

However: To disassemble the intake i was reading the install guide ( http://www.goapr.co.uk/support/vwr/VWR%20Fitting%20Cold%20Air%20Intake%20TFSI.pdf ). It mentions to use a square bracket for the front mount on the MK5, but the squishy scoop style mount for the Golf R/ed35 etc. Mine's been installed with the scoop style mount! It says MK5's should use the square bracket mount. Despite this, i'm not sure this would cause the issue, the car was running great for a while with the scoop mount.

So, i just ran 3 quick 3rd gear runs logging Misfire Sum, Cyl 1- 4, Lambda Sensor, Fuel Pressure, Boost (actual and specified) and fuel rail pressure (actual and specified), and Engine Speed (thanks bacillus!)

Bad news:
There was a misfire reported in Cylinder 3 on the end of the second run.

Good news:
Boost pressure actual seems to follow specified closely, but not for values lower than 1090mbar, i guess this is normal? I seem to remember seeing similar before the APR software flash.

I don't know much about fuel rail pressure, any hints? Looks like actual follows specified reasonably closely.

Download the log here: https://gist.github.com/AnthonyMann/5961169/download

I'll be taking the car back to Tuningwerkes as soon as i can, it's not a short trek. Really appreciate the input you guys might have on the logs if you have a min. Any obvious issues and solutions?

Thanks again!

[bacillus]

It's unfortunate that your logging didn't include a rpm margin to help see what's going on.   

[SyntaxTerror]

I included block 143; engine speed, its column 21

Not the correct block?

[bacillus]

I included block 143; engine speed, its column 21

Not the correct block?

My apologies, it is there! 
Normally the rpm is in the first column when I log. 

[SyntaxTerror]

My apologies, it is there! 
Normally the rpm is in the first column when I log. 

No worries, i'll make sure it's first next time

[Evan@APR]

Thanks Evan!

FYI there is no CEL being thrown, only intermittent logs, but i've definitely noticed the car being a LOT less responsive recently, with a little low end jitter.

I had a quick check over the intake today and, after removing it, found that the screw at the bottom of the cone cover was missing! A guy in hardware at work found me the same M5 size, so i've popped this in. Everything was then re-torqued.

However: To disassemble the intake i was reading the install guide ( http://www.goapr.co.uk/support/vwr/VWR%20Fitting%20Cold%20Air%20Intake%20TFSI.pdf ). It mentions to use a square bracket for the front mount on the MK5, but the squishy scoop style mount for the Golf R/ed35 etc. Mine's been installed with the scoop style mount! It says MK5's should use the square bracket mount. Despite this, i'm not sure this would cause the issue, the car was running great for a while with the scoop mount.

So, i just ran 3 quick 3rd gear runs logging Misfire Sum, Cyl 1- 4, Lambda Sensor, Fuel Pressure, Boost (actual and specified) and fuel rail pressure (actual and specified), and Engine Speed (thanks bacillus!)

Bad news:
There was a misfire reported in Cylinder 3 on the end of the second run.

Good news:
Boost pressure actual seems to follow specified closely, but not for values lower than 1090mbar, i guess this is normal? I seem to remember seeing similar before the APR software flash.

I don't know much about fuel rail pressure, any hints? Looks like actual follows specified reasonably closely.

Download the log here: https://gist.github.com/AnthonyMann/5961169/download

I'll be taking the car back to Tuningwerkes as soon as i can, it's not a short trek. Really appreciate the input you guys might have on the logs if you have a min. Any obvious issues and solutions?

Thanks again!

Yep! Boost pressure and rail pressure match up beautifully. Get it to Tuningwerkes so they can take a closer look--I suspect a intake or exhaust leak.

To your misfire (it only registered one on cylinders 1 and 4, and it looks like it's repeated in the log, but remember that's the misfire counter, so if more misses occurred, the number would have increased over time. The cause fo the misfire is probably related to engaging the clutch during an injection cycle. Extra fuel got by, and the mixture read a bit off causing the misfire. As you can see it's not prevalent and didn't happen during any of the other runs. I'm 99.999999% positive it had nothing to do with your lean fault or any "problem" with the fuel system.

Hope Reuben and the guys are able to take care of this quickly for you :)

[SyntaxTerror]

To your misfire (it only registered one on cylinders 1 and 4, and it looks like it's repeated in the log, but remember that's the misfire counter, so if more misses occurred, the number would have increased over time. The cause fo the misfire is probably related to engaging the clutch during an injection cycle. Extra fuel got by, and the mixture read a bit off causing the misfire. As you can see it's not prevalent and didn't happen during any of the other runs. I'm 99.999999% positive it had nothing to do with your lean fault or any "problem" with the fuel system.

Thanks Evan, appreciated.

Checked the logs again this morning and found the following, along with the familiar System To Lean off Idle log:

Code: [Select]

001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
               P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 78439 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 10:47:17

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 836 /min
                    Load: 12.9 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 79.0°C
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1030.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V


Readiness: 0000 0000

I checked the charcoal canister, but all seems to be fitting quite snugly. I'm booking her into Tuningwerkes again.

[SyntaxTerror]

Well, i've finally had the bodywork sorted, Tuningwerkes have had a look over her and found no intake or exhaust leaks.
They did find that the fuse-box needed replacing, which was done, but has made no difference. Reuben strongly suggested that the MAF is on it's way out, or there is something else suspect with the air system.

Well, last night i was doing some research into VWR intakes in relation to P2177, turns out there is a known fault with the MAF housing on the intake version i'm running which causes this exact code, and high adaption levels: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5920000-VWR-Intake-fuel-trims-UPDATE.

I've contacted APR for the replacement MAF housing, which will hopefully resolve the issue!

Fingers crossed

[Evan@APR]

There was a batch of VWR kits shipped with improperly shaped MAF sections that alter the MAF readings resulting in increased long term fuel trims being off, but never an MIL as reported. The owners have been systematically contacted by VWR for replacement, but some may have been missed. You can contact VWR directly to discuss this.

I would advise returning the airbox back to stock to see if this error continues first. Then go from there.

[SyntaxTerror]

Perfect Gif

OEM airbox is next on the list, only just had the car back since the previous updates after having the bodywork issues resolved, which left us very little time for diagnostics.

Looks like I should have read your post more thoroughly

Thanks to APR and Evan for sorting out the replacement MAF housing!

[SyntaxTerror]

Realised i've not updated this thread since i received the new MAF housing yonks ago...

For anyone coming across this thread, the replacement MAF housing from VWR fixed the problem completely. Fuel trims now ~8%, and the little fluctuation i had on WOT is gone.

Thanks all :)