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Author Topic: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy  (Read 35441 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: BSH PCV Stage 2 Fix Catch Can System Group Buy
« Reply #135 on: August 24, 2009, 05:45:00 pm »

There are some exceedingly gullable peeps here if they think this is a 'valid product' .  Save your money any spend it on some thing that is atually NEEDED - as this absolutely is NOT needed!

Ok TT, bold statement - I'm all ears for the reasoning.  :evilgrin:

So what else do you want me to say (especially as there seems to be about three separate threads on this subject  :ashamed:)!!
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Offline SteveP

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #136 on: August 24, 2009, 05:50:57 pm »
You have made the bold statement, now were is the smoking gun?

Offline vRStu

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #137 on: August 24, 2009, 05:55:57 pm »
FWIW Sean I will agree that you are right it is an oil based issue.

However so long as we all stick to the VAG servicing regime it will happen.  Until they can find an oil with the correct properties to stop this happening it s going to become a feature of these engines made worse by Direct Injection.

The only way to avoid it is to remove the oil from this system - Enter the Catch Can.
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #138 on: August 24, 2009, 06:35:37 pm »
FWIW Sean I will agree that you are right it is an oil based issue.

But it isn't just the oil.  There are a whole load of other variables too.

The other 'crucial' issue is the cleanliness of the intake air.  If you have a standard OEM pleated paper air filter, vs a non-standard non-paper filter, then there will be a noticeable amount more solid particles which will stick to any oil deposits.  Just go and slap some suntan oil on, then get a breeze on  a dry beach, and notice how all the sand sticks to you - exactly the same with this carbon issue.  Then go and lie in a furnace for a few hours, and try getting the crusty sand and oil mix off you!

And the fuels.  In the UK and western Europe, we have to have 'Ultra Low Sulfur Petrol', whereas in North America, their fuel is far less refined and 'pure' compared to ours.  You only have to go to some of their rural gas stations - to be wondering what the heck is being pumped into your tank - and this also explains why the yanks have a 40k change interval for their fuel filters, yet here in Blighty and w.Europe, they are a 'lifetime' fit.

So, taking into account the yanks crap fuel, and that they have this amazing propensity to change absolutley everything on their cars - irrespective of weather it's good or bad - and which includes ditching the paper air filter.  Now add that to the 502.00 non-fully synthetic oil - then it is hardly surprising they get probs.  It is no different to how the yanks managed to fcuk up so many PD diesels, yet it was not an endemic prob here in UK or Germany.  The sludge issue on the 1.8 20vT is the same - the yanks refused to take VWoA advice with fully synthetic oils, and thought they new better by using cheap mineral oil, but changing it every 3,000 miles - and wondered by conventional mineral oils had turned to coal in their turbo bearings.  Again, not an endemic prob over here, because we generally follow the manufacturers recommendations.

However so long as we all stick to the VAG servicing regime it will happen.

Sorry, but I absolutely do not agree.  Why do you think that VW AG and VW UK now insist that ONLY LL3 oils are used, even if the car is on T&D.

OK, I'm sure you all know my opinions on the LongLife 'regime' - and that it is no good for petrol engines, particularly petrols with a turbo - but the LL3 oil is superb.

The real issue is from using lesser spec oils, such as 502.00 oils - because these were never developed for FSI direct injection (and nor for TDI direct injection either).  Whereas, the 504.00/507.00 LongLife 3 oil specification has a specific 'FSI' test sequence, and no other VW, or generic oil standard does.

But if you were to ask me 'is there a better oil than the LL3', or 'could the LL3 oil be further improved' - then my answer would be very likely.  But as of this moment, the LL3 oil, from a quality European oil company, which only uses either Group 4 or Group 5 basestocks is the pinacle of what you can get.  Don't forget, Volkswagen Germany work very closely with Castrol and Fuchs - two exceedingly highly regarded oil companies - both at the cutting edge of tribology, and there is only one other oil company who is in such high esteem, and that is Motul.  So between the three of them, do you not think that they would have addressed the 'oil' issue if it were such a problem?

Until they can find an oil with the correct properties to stop this happening it s going to become a feature of these engines made worse by Direct Injection.

Sorry, don't agree again.  Direct injection engines have been out for years.  Just Google Mitsubishi GDI.


The only way to avoid it is to remove the oil from this system - Enter the Catch Can.

Nope, peeps have simply found a product, and are just looking for some reason to justify it.

But ETTO.
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #139 on: August 24, 2009, 06:43:05 pm »
....

I'm now interested to know people's views on whether having a Catchcan presents any disadvantages/problems/negative effects on the 2.0T FSI engine.

Please....................


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Offline ukdub

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #140 on: August 24, 2009, 06:47:07 pm »
....

I'm now interested to know people's views on whether having a Catchcan presents any disadvantages/problems/negative effects on the 2.0T FSI engine.

Please....................

What are the views of all the tuners that you vist RR? i.e VWR
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #141 on: August 24, 2009, 07:02:48 pm »
....

I'm now interested to know people's views on whether having a Catchcan presents any disadvantages/problems/negative effects on the 2.0T FSI engine.

Please....................


Hmmmmm . . . . this will get me thinking . . . .

So appart from the £100 cost, I can see a couple of potential issues.

The first is the escaping oil vapour into the engine bay, and therefore potentially over the screen and into the heater/ventilation for the car interior - BUT, this seems to have been addressed if you choose the correct kit - so if you choose correctly, not an issue.

Another issue could lead to spurious signals to the ecu, which might actually affect the running of the engine.  Though I don't know this for certain, as I havn't studied crankcase ventilation pressures, weather they are monitored by the ecu.  But manifold vacuum is monitored, so that may still be a potential for errors.

The only other issue, which will be a valid one, is increased oil consumption.  One of the main features of the oem PCV - is that it 'collects' the oil vapour, condenses it, and sends it back to the sump - but with a catch can, you just end up binning ALL the oil which goes through the PCV.
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #142 on: August 24, 2009, 07:12:29 pm »
....

I'm now interested to know people's views on whether having a Catchcan presents any disadvantages/problems/negative effects on the 2.0T FSI engine.

Please....................

What are the views of all the tuners that you vist RR? i.e VWR


....I haven't asked any of them yet. It's a good idea :happy2:


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Phil Mcavity

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #143 on: August 24, 2009, 07:33:26 pm »
....

I'm now interested to know people's views on whether having a Catchcan presents any disadvantages/problems/negative effects on the 2.0T FSI engine.

Please....................


Hmmmmm . . . . this will get me thinking . . . .

So appart from the £100 cost, I can see a couple of potential issues.

The first is the escaping oil vapour into the engine bay, and therefore potentially over the screen and into the heater/ventilation for the car interior - BUT, this seems to have been addressed if you choose the correct kit - so if you choose correctly, not an issue.

Another issue could lead to spurious signals to the ecu, which might actually affect the running of the engine.  Though I don't know this for certain, as I havn't studied crankcase ventilation pressures, weather they are monitored by the ecu.  But manifold vacuum is monitored, so that may still be a potential for errors.

The only other issue, which will be a valid one, is increased oil consumption.  One of the main features of the oem PCV - is that it 'collects' the oil vapour, condenses it, and sends it back to the sump - but with a catch can, you just end up binning ALL the oil which goes through the PCV.

Incorrect. You are only collecting the oil that would otherwise be blown back into the inlet manifold. The rest of the oil still goes to the sump from the other crankcase vent.
Deako, you are wrong, it does route back to sump, or steveP's car would be belching out blue smoke looking at the ammount that was caught in his coke bottle picture, and also we would have far worse oil consumption and Blue smoke issue and emmision problems if what your saying is correct. Sorry mate, i dont agree on this point.

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #144 on: August 24, 2009, 07:38:08 pm »
We will just have to agree to disagree on this.  :drinking:

Offline SteveP

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #145 on: August 24, 2009, 07:58:48 pm »
I am really struggling to see anything you have posted as conclusive proof that catch can's don't work T_T.

So I would appreciate YOU being careful with your bold statements, for instance you are yourself scaremongering with comments such as the catch can possibly causing issues with the ECU  :chicken:

You also haven't addressed, what I feel are very valid comments, from info posted on the other thread quoting the VAG technical notes (which are taken from the patient application for the TFSI engine).

I am 90% sure you have been asked to "comment" on these catch can threads by a person on this site who shall remain nameless. I really hope the 10% doubt I have is the truth otherwise I will have to consider taking some action towards them.

Offline gazbutS3

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #146 on: August 24, 2009, 08:00:16 pm »
I think you'll find Deako is correct Steve(Phil), the return pipe is still used. The other thing to remember is the fix isn't only for the inlet valve cokeing issue (correctly or not), the stock PCV has also shown to be a weak link when running higher boost levels :smiley:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:02:37 pm by gazbutS3 »

Phil Mcavity

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #147 on: August 24, 2009, 08:14:43 pm »
:
I am 90% sure you have been asked to "comment" on these catch can threads by a person on this site who shall remain nameless. I really hope the 10% doubt I have is the truth otherwise I will have to consider taking some action towards them.

So am i wrong in asking someone for his advise on whether its worth spending my hard earned on now and face being booted from here!!.Ask someone that knows more then i do, and now face "action" :confused:

FFS steve, this is a forum, for a public discussion and at no point did i ask for shaun to post his thoughts on your website.



Get a life if thats your threat.  :mad:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:27:12 pm by Phil Mcavity »

Phil Mcavity

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2009, 08:16:51 pm »
I think you'll find Deako is correct Steve(Phil), the return pipe is still used. The other thing to remember is the fix isn't only for the inlet valve cokeing issue (correctly or not), the stock PCV has also shown to be a weak link when running higher boost levels :smiley:
agree ok Gaz, but like ive read from all these topics, is that its worth only considering getting a can if your highly modified, and not loose sleep if i dont being im near standard....ish.  :happy2:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 09:19:31 pm by Phil Mcavity »

Offline RedRobin

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Re: BSH PCV catch can - Now with Possible Group Buy
« Reply #149 on: August 24, 2009, 08:22:50 pm »

I am 90% sure you have been asked to "comment" on these catch can threads by a person on this site who shall remain nameless. I really hope the 10% doubt I have is the truth otherwise I will have to consider taking some action towards them.


....Steve, doesn't that imply that you think there is (90% sure) a conspiracy? To gain what? - I can't see a good reason.

Whereas, aren't we merely discussing the pro's and con's of the Catchcan system? - Surely important to assess regardless of whether the device costs £100 or £1,000. Modern engines are relatively sophisticated (at least they are to me!) and surely any mod should be politely challenged.

Personally, I'm learning a lot from all this discussion and whether T_T is correct or not, his opinions are always worth reading regardless of our individual decisions as a result. Everyone knows that he and I don't always agree!

Oh, and although I have asked whether there are any disadvantages to the Catchcan, I haven't asked T_T to "comment" either. I did send him a PM to welcome him after a number of posts he had made. I often do that after a long period of absence because I know he suffers from poor health at times and it also helps to keep the peace between us!!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:24:56 pm by RedRobin »


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