Problems with Stage 2+

[vRS Carl]

Ok i did post this in another thread but was advised to start a new one so here it is

Just be aware with Stage2+ On REVO you may not get what you expect on the Dyno.

For some reason i believe the latest Stage2+ REVO code doesn't like the Dyno and no matter what Timing advance you set (even 9) it will show no timing pull whatsoever. Also the car will not request Maximum boost AT ALL throughout the rev range.

However get it on the Road and it all performs as expected. Assuming you have no problems with the Car to start with it will request 2500+mbar of boost and give it from about 2500rpm to around 4200rpm before starting to slowly tail off. The car will also start to show timing pull (dependent on car) from about 4 upwards.

I spent nearly 2 weeks trying to find a phantom problem with my car only to discover it may be the code  

But to highlight it a bit easier

I had Stage 2+ flashed (my car has every conceivable mod for a KO3s TFSi)
 
Stage 2 i had 257bhp and 302lb/ft (only CBE though)

Stage 2 + and TBE i got 264.5bhp and 285lb/ft  

After 2 weeks and changing a few parts on the car for brand new ones (plus the car engine was stripped cleaned checked rechecked and put back together 4 TIMES looking for boost leaks etc) the car was put back on the Dyno

Result 265bhp and 287lb/ft

When looking at the logs the car (on the dyno) would not request max boost as it should highest was 2450mbar at 4400rpm which is too late and at 2500rpm it was only asking for 2290mbar

However put the car on the road and the following happened (and consistenly over 30+ logging runs)

At 2500rpm the car would request 2500mbar and give 2560 mbar actual (at some points it gave 2580)
This would be held all the way to 4200 rpm where it would start to slowly tail till at approx 6000rpm it was still holding 2100mbar of boost

So the final result was (after some clever calculations from boost logs etc using VCDS):

On the dyno 265.1bhp and 287lb/ft

On the road 282bhp and 331lb/ft

The calculations were checked against the Dyno results and were found to be accurate (within 0.5bhp and 2lb/ft which i knocked off)

So in reality my car has 282bhp and 331lb/ft but on the Dyno shows 265bhp and 287lb/ft

So if you are getting Stage 2+ dont be disheartened by the results

Use VCDS and the instructions on the Rosstech website and you will get a better answer on what your car has

This is not just specific to my Car. I know of 3 other cars with the same problem. Also the rollers that were used have been used by members on this Forum and on Briskoda, Cupra.net etc are regarded as very very accurate. I am not naming the company though as they have asked not to be until they have done more research into the problem to present to REVO if needs be

HTH

Carl

[Deako]

Carl, could this be down to air flow to the engine bay, and an adverse effect on intake/intercooler temps?

[SteveP]

This is not just specific to my Car. I know of 3 other cars with the same problem. Also the rollers that were used have been used by members on this Forum and on Briskoda, Cupra.net etc are regarded as very very accurate. I am not naming the company though as they have asked not to be until they have done more research into the problem to present to REVO if needs be

HTH

Carl

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out which company/set of rollers your refering too 

[vRS Carl]

I'm not sure and neither are those who are looking in to this at the moment

When my car was done all the intake temps where fine, there was no wheel slip on the rollers etc (the guy that does it is regarded as the best and he even checked all the logs etc to see if there was any evidence of wheel slip, Intake temps etc just to satisfy himself that they werent the problem)

Basically what is happening is from about 2500rpm to around 3700rpm the fueling is running too rich on the Dyno

Yet on the road it is absolutely fine.

It's a strange one and will take someone with brains bigger than mine to figure this out.

Carl  

[john_o]

out of interest have you tried a different dyno ?

[vRS Carl]

I have tried a different dyno and got a similar result (263bhp and 281lb/ft)

However to keep things constant i have decided to stick with thew original dyno otherwise a whole host of other factors start being thrown into the mix (things like correct dyno settings, competency of the operator etc etc)

I have used the original dyno on 4 previous occasions and always found it to be spot on so don't see the need to check on other dyno's.

I only did a different dyno just to satisfy my own curiosity

Carl

[revo carl]

So how is this a problem with code......

Would this not be put down to a discrepancy with the dyno you're using.....

what dyno's are you using?

[Deako]

I am not naming the company though as they have asked not to be until they have done more research into the problem to present to REVO if needs be

HTH

Carl

I have tried a different dyno and got a similar result (263bhp and 281lb/ft)

However to keep things constant i have decided to stick with thew original dyno otherwise a whole host of other factors start being thrown into the mix (things like correct dyno settings, competency of the operator etc etc)

I have used the original dyno on 4 previous occasions and always found it to be spot on so don't see the need to check on other dyno's.

I only did a different dyno just to satisfy my own curiosity

Carl

So how is this a problem with code......

Would this not be put down to a discrepancy with the dyno you're using.....

what dyno's are you using?

 

[Revo Kev]

Car does what it should on the road but not on the dyno = no problem with the software.

The ECU's in these cars are load based, they will react to differences in conditions, temps, etc. Winter figures will differ to summer figures, etc, etc. They're tuned for road use, you don't drive the car on the dyno?!

We see cars acting differently on the dyno to the road all the time, but if it's spot on for the road then! 

[vRS Carl]

So how is this a problem with code......

Would this not be put down to a discrepancy with the dyno you're using.....

what dyno's are you using?

The reason i am saying i believe it is a problem with the code is due to the Data Logging results

The car went on a Dyno and produced 265bhp and 285lb/ft (also got 263bhp and 281lb/ft from another dyno so the car is consistent on 2 seperate dyno's)

On each Dyno the car would not request maximum boost.

However after the dyno session i did last i did 8 logging runs over a period of 2 hours (the first one being about an hour after the Dyno session) the car had not been changed in any way and the settings were still the same. The car requested (and made) maximum boost. To quote someone who viewed the logs they said if they had not seen the car on the dyno themselves they would have believed the Data logs were from 2 different cars.

I am not saying it is definately the code but it would seem a bit odd that you can turn the timing advance up to 9 and it will show now timing pull on any cylinder (they all remain at 0 from 2000 - 6000rpm) on the dyno yet the minute you put the car on the road Timing 4 shows pull on some of the cylinders and gets worse the higher you advance the timing (didn't take any further than timing 6 as this started to show 5.3 on a couple of cylinders)

Now if that was just happening on my car i would believe the fault was with my car. However on 3 other cars all at the same level of modification i find it hard to believe that they would all have the same problem at the same point in the Rev Range.

Plus i know that Stage 2+ should give a reliable 280bhp and 315+lb/ft.

Revo Carl please don't take this as me slagging your code off, Im not, The car on the road is like an Exocet missile and the way it performs i am more than happy with. What i am trying to highlight is that some people may be spending considerable amounts of money trying to fix a problem that may not be there in the first place. I personally spent about £400 in replacement parts to negate the problem of Boost leak etc. I am very very happy with the REVO product. I am just not happy that something is holding the car back on the Dyno.

Carl

[iainalpine]

This mite not be the same thing thats happening with your cars but is sounding very like an issue i had with the impreza i had running a GEMS management system amongst other goodies. After many runs on the Dyno and the road the difference we were seeing was to do with air flow. There were higher readings on the road and the mixture was spot on (using wideband sensor to watch what was going on) but on the rollers ran a little rich mid range with the same map being used. Air density when out on the road seemed to be greater when looking at MAF and MAP logs. This was really all we could come up with that would maybe change the mixture of the car.
As i said, this was not ever proven, but with 497BHP and the car running well with no signs of knock on the road, I was happy.

Just thought i post what i had came up against.

Iain