Rear Brake Pad Upgrades....

[RedRobin]

The front may not be as 'Eye-candy' as AP, Tarox, or Brembo, but the system works very well.  It is all about function for me.  That is why I think the Audi S3 looks a far better car that the pictures of the golf R20.

But as always each to their own.
 

....Indeed each to their own but you appear to be saying that you think the Audi S3 is a far better car than the Golf R because you think the S3 looks better. To me, for example, the S3's looks don't appeal and neither do its looks say "I am better designed etc".

Are you saying that you think the S3 is a 'better' car because you prefer its aesthetic styling?

No car is perfect and I expect you'd also agree that no helicopter is perfect - They each have their individual strengths and weaknesses and appeal in very different ways to our individual senses on many levels - Just like women! (or men if you're gay).

[Teutonic_Tamer]

In my opinion i would just stick some decent pads in the back, front wheel drive cars shouldnt use much rear braking... when your trying to do everything through the front wheels the last thing you want to do it to make the back too stable!

Thats my part anyway, and i dont really need to justify this...

Not necessary to justify anything mate, could you just elaborate on the bit Ive highlighted

no problem, when your fast road or track driving in a front wheel drive car the only way it's going to go quick is if you can be the last on the brakes and first on the power, the only way to do this is to have the car pointing in the right direction as early into the corner as possible with the least ammout of steering input a possible... This doesn't work if the back end is too settled! (we have tried it) you can brake much further into corners with very little rear brake.
I see what your saying that the more even braking should mean better stopping abuility... And on mid engined or rear engined cars this is correct, but it's not really the right direction for front engined front drive cars! In my opinion of course.

But that is fine when used purely on the track.  But for on highway use - it is NOT the best, nor safest way to set up the brakes!

[RedRobin]

Guys, whilst this is all good discussion - I can't help feel confused.  

I have a big brake kit arriving any time this week.  Should I also look at upgrading my rear pads, or go for the plunge and upgrade the discs as well?

....Personally I would get to know your front big brake kit first and then later think about your rears.

I'd have to strongly dispute that.  What if he lost the rear round a corner whilst braking - which could be highly likely if you just go for 'bigger' fronts!

....What, like everyone else who has only fitted a big brake kit to their fronts hasn't done?

[You wanna stay off the brakes mid corner anyway]

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I've taken the plunge and gone for a big brake kit from HiSpec- 2-piece 360mm diameter discs, steel braided lines, 6 pot billeted calipers, 5.1 brake fluid, and some Ferodo DS2500 pads.

http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/calipers.htm

Hmmmm . . . . not really known on the VAG scene - and this shocking cock-up shows - http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/START%20audi.htm - do they REALLY think that an Audi S2 is the same as an A2 !!!!  

And they don't know the difference between a Mk4 Golf and a Mk5 - http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/START%20vw.htm

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Agreed. Modding enhances a car because the manufacturer builds them to a lower common denominator.

Nope, they build them to appeal to the masses, at a reasonable price.  Volkswagen are, afterall, a mainstream manufacturer, just like say F0rd, V@uxhall, Reno, etc, and NOT some high end sports car manufacturer!

Example: The VW air intake is more of a hot air intake because VW have to cater for cold starts in colder climates [probably not the best example, but].

What an utter load of BS.  The standard GTI intake is probably in one of the most efficient areas, and is DEFINATELY a COLD air intake!!!! 

And then there's all the crap about emissions etc.

Emissions may be 'crap' - but they are a legal requirement! 

[SteveP]

Do you two ever give up????????

Can I ask this remains on topic please.

Just in case you have forgotten there is a clue in the title - Rear Brake Pad Upgrades.

[Hurdy]

I must say that now I've upgraded the rear to an S3 set-up, with OEM S3 pads (on topic Steve ) the balance of the car is much better under heavy braking. The R888's did give me extra grip to stop faster, which for me showed up the imbalance more. Brakes can primarily only ever be as effective as the friction between the tyres and the braking surface, once this is broken then ABS and the other plethora of electronic controls help balance the braking with the available grip. So, with more available grip, my rears struggled more. Now the balance has been redressed I'm happy that the available braking power is much more stable than it was with just the TAROX upgrade at the front.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

TT, what would you suggest to complement (i.e. rear brakes) the 360mm 6 pot front brakes I will be getting installed in a couple of weeks time?

The only real options would seem to be the S3/R32 set up.  That is what I shall be going for.

[RedRobin]

TT, what would you suggest to complement (i.e. rear brakes) the 360mm 6 pot front brakes I will be getting installed in a couple of weeks time?

The only real options would seem to be the S3/R32 set up.  That is what I shall be going for.

....And it's what I might consider if I have any dodgy 'experiences' which suggest it's a good idea!

But meanwhile, as I stated in the original post of this thread, I'll try just the DS2500 pads and take it from there.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

^^^^
I've said most of what I have to say on this subject on the other forum - I can't be arsed to drag it all up again. Likewise I wouldn't expect AP to be arsed to dig up info for a forum - You can see why most companies don't want to get involved in forum discussions and when they do it rarely lasts for very long.

Huh, no one is specifically asking AP to get involved in the 'forum'!   

However, the likes of Revo are more than happy to support the forum, and offer real help. 

I just think that it is vitally important - because either AP just 'made up' the 85:15 figures, or they have it from 'real' testing - so I don't think that it is at all unreasonable for them to back up what they are saying.  If they did not make up this wild statement - they should be able to offer proof. 

Peeps wouldn't buy a remap if some tuner quoted wild figures (and APs claim of 85% is more than 'wild') without backing it up with some dyno plots! 

All any of us can ever do is post info which we believe to be to the best of our knowledge - Sometimes it's spot on and sometimes it turns out to be bollox, no matter who we are.

I don't have a prob at all with that.  And nor do I have a prob with anyone posting 'incorrect' info, if they themselves genuinely are unaware that there may be inaccuracies.

Whichever brand of whatever mod we choose, we are each going to believe it's the best because it's what we chose for ourselves and it's also natural to justify our decisions to ourselves.

Again, each to their own and all that.   However, I think peeps need also to be able to 'smell the coffee' when they have been sold something which doesn't match up to some hype! 

stokeballoon is very happy with his setup and I'm happy with mine.
[/end of]

And whilst that is all exceedingly important, I certainly don't think it should be so agressive as 'end of'.  If you personally followed that ethos, then you'd have still been stuck with your Koni FSDs! 

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

The only real options would seem to be the S3/R32 set up.  That is what I shall be going for.

And perfectly suitable -going much bigger than 310mm on the rear quickly gets you into the realms of diminishing returns.

Any upgrade front and rear must always consider the size of the fairly small master cylinder on the Mk5, theres been a couple of people over on the Mk4 forum who have gone for S4 fronts on a Mk5, the problem being the piston size is bigger. The 286mm caliper and the 310mm caliper both share the 38mm piston so for all intents and purposes its rearward bias but without all the other baggage that would accompany either a 2 or 4 pot upgrade.

I drew and fabbed a bracket to use Evo 2 pot rears and compbrake handbrake calipers but quickly realised that the R32/S3 rear setup ticked all the boxes and more importantly wouldn't compromise hydraulically any front upgrades already done.

Ive got a fitting kit for RS4 rears here - but to go from the Mk5 38mm piston to the RS4 43mm piston whilst only 5mm is volumetically a country mile and would drive crap, looked into MC upgrades for the Mk4 with no joy but theres too much parts bin engineering in the Mk5 for there not to be a 25mm+ MC in group that would really open up some serious rear upgrade options.

[xxx_mojo_xxx]

Ok guys... there's a lot of "fluff" flying around!

What's the rear setup that I should go for? TT?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Guys, whilst this is all good discussion - I can't help feel confused.  

I have a big brake kit arriving any time this week.  Should I also look at upgrading my rear pads, or go for the plunge and upgrade the discs as well?

....Personally I would get to know your front big brake kit first and then later think about your rears.

I'd have to strongly dispute that.  What if he lost the rear round a corner whilst braking - which could be highly likely if you just go for 'bigger' fronts!

....What, like everyone else who has only fitted a big brake kit to their fronts hasn't done?

YES, because virtually EVERYONE who has fitted big brakes just to the front, and who use their brakes earnestly - have reported very undesireable traits from the rear end!

Now if you personally are happy to take that risk, then fine - but in my humble but professional opinion - I consider it vital to warn others of the possible potential for a nasty surprise!

[You wanna stay off the brakes mid corner anyway]

I fully agree - but in the 'real world' - sh!t sometimes happens - no matter how good a driver you are.  Furthermore, the vast majority of drivers have never recieved any 'advanced' driver training, and know how to correctly brake.  This is exceedingly apparent when you are a motorcyclist - following a car mid corner, and it brakes mid-corner when there is absolutely no need!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Do you two ever give up????????

Can I ask this remains on topic please.

Just in case you have forgotten there is a clue in the title - Rear Brake Pad Upgrades.

Erm - we ARE discussing 'rear brake pad upgrades' - and that happens to also consider other alternatives too!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I must say that now I've upgraded the rear to an S3 set-up, with OEM S3 pads (on topic Steve ) the balance of the car is much better under heavy braking. The R888's did give me extra grip to stop faster, which for me showed up the imbalance more. Brakes can primarily only ever be as effective as the friction between the tyres and the braking surface, once this is broken then ABS and the other plethora of electronic controls help balance the braking with the available grip. So, with more available grip, my rears struggled more. Now the balance has been redressed I'm happy that the available braking power is much more stable than it was with just the TAROX upgrade at the front.

Well said, John!