ed30 true bhp

[Top Cat]

I actually agree with Mcavity on this point,     but i am not willing to die on my sword  trying to dispute any claims, Because i also have not got a clue. 
I certainly wouldn't enter into every discussion on the point knowing Sweet F.A about it apart from the readings from one rolling road.     

Being an engineer for 10 years, i do know a little about it. And agree dont take for gospel with one rolling road.

I love a good discussion and am not frightened to take part 

Ok Phil seeing as you have been a engineer for 10 years. explain to me how a hand built engine can produce 100 BHP more than a factory built one. i know its possible but dont understand how. 

[Hurdy]

I actually agree with Mcavity on this point,     but i am not willing to die on my sword  trying to dispute any claims, Because i also have not got a clue. 
I certainly wouldn't enter into every discussion on the point knowing Sweet F.A about it apart from the readings from one rolling road.     

Sig worthy

[Phil Mcavity]

.Perhaps you should watch Discovery abit more how they assemble a ferrari V8/V10 engine, a Aston Martin v10, or Lambo powerplant. We are talking supercars here which when the terminology of hand build is quoted.
All also when we are talking large ammounts of horsepower as each engine can be different.
Much more then a piddly 4 cylinder unit like we have.
Hope this helps tom.

oh and ive just eaten so not hungry

[Hurdy]

If all engines were exactly the same, maintained the same (with the same service parts and consumables like oil), ran by the owner in the same manner, fuelled the same and had the same mileage, then they would all make the same power.

The thing is not all engines are even the same, all it takes is a slight change in the mix of the alloy used and you'll get a stronger engine/weaker engine with either better or worse wear properties, heat dissipation etc etc. A kinked pipe at production, a different supplier from MY-XX to MY-XY can change things.

One batch build can have completely different outputs to another.

The RR day is basically a lottery and to be taken with a pinch of salt at times. The only way to tell would be to strip the engine out of the car and bench test it.

 

[Top Cat]

.Perhaps you should watch Discovery abit more how they assemble a ferrari V8/V10 engine, a Aston Martin v10, or Lambo powerplant. We are talking supercars here which when the terminology of hand build is quoted.
All also when we are talking large ammounts of horsepower as each engine can be different.
Much more then a piddly 4 cylinder unit like we have.
Hope this helps tom.

oh and ive just eaten so not hungry

So ten years of being a engineer and your answer is watch discovery.   

At the end of the day Phil if it was as black and white as you think it is then a leading engineer somewhere would have been able to measure and document the results.
As i mentioned i am with you on what factory output is but thats just me trying to apply common sense and not a bluff about knowing how it all works.    

[The wheel man]

If all engines were exactly the same, maintained the same (with the same service parts and consumables like oil), ran by the owner in the same manner, fuelled the same and had the same mileage, then they would all make the same power.

The thing is not all engines are even the same, all it takes is a slight change in the mix of the alloy used and you'll get a stronger engine/weaker engine with either better or worse wear properties, heat dissipation etc etc. A kinked pipe at production, a different supplier from MY-XX to MY-XY can change things.

One batch build can have completely different outputs to another.

The RR day is basically a lottery and to be taken with a pinch of salt at times. The only way to tell would be to strip the engine out of the car and bench test it.

 

Agree.  I seem to remember when i was a young apprentice mechanic (building Mitec Midas Kit Cars) talking about a certain Pinto 2.0 being quick.  obvoiusly an older engine but there were difference in power output from 1 engine to the next.  Also, if you read up the MK1 Focus RS and most 1990's Skylines are all reported to ahve VERY healthy horses........

As for VAG's producing more BHP than factory i cannot say but i would like to make a point.  BHP sells cars (to an extent) and i woulddnt think that it would be in VW's interest to under cut a cars performance.... particulary a performance car like the GTI, ED30 etc.

[Phil Mcavity]

............off to watch another eppisode of "How do they do it"

[The wheel man]

^^

Sounds like fighting talk that!!

Fight, fight, fight, fight   

[Phil Mcavity]

i agree with you both John and Ben, but for an engine that was made with the same bits as the car built next, to get 30bhp (10%) is alot of difference. All production cars cannot be sold as ...

"yes sir this car has 227bhp,or you could have one thats 265bhp and the parts guy was on Speed!.... but if your unlucky, it may only be 207bhp if the parts assembly bod felt poorly and wanted an early finish".
They are all built to the same specification and engine variation would be no more then 1-2% difference from one to the other.

In my oppinion of course but havent seen next weeks eppisode  on Discovery yet

[bacillus]

Come on guys, time for a group hug me thinks...  

[Phil Mcavity]

^^ will do when this program finishes , im learning something !!!

[edd666999]

when we took 10 czt's (all be it only lil 1.5turbos) down to forge's hug dyno, 5 of them were stock, mileage ranged from 2,000mils up to 15,000 on the 5 stock cars, all made at least 10bhp more than stock.

not sure if i should be saying this i might be facing a battering  replies   

[robern2]

How many of those were running v-power compared to standard unleaded ?
My wife's CZT was the first to have the consumer release of ecutek software applied. It had been run on V-power from day one.
Car was mapped at the Racing Line in Leeds (Dyno Dynamics rollers) it was producing 156 bhp (up from the 147 quoted) and 180lbs of torque (up from the 150 quoted).

[spliff1star]

what have i started!! the reason i ask is before i brought my gti i was looking at the golf 1.4 tsi and 2.0tdi sport 170bhp and gave revo a call on tunning and the guy said the gti was the better option and they had a few standard k03s tested at 10bhp more than factory output. so 207bhp not 197bhp, a vw engineer told me the same thing too?

So because i saw a review on 5th gear where they tested the ed30 against the focus st and introduced the ed30 saying it has 20bhp more than the normal gti i was thinking whats the point if it only has 20bhp more and the k03s are being tested at 207bhp before being remaped. So obviously some miss lead info!

I dont think i would change my ko3 for a ko4 ed30, at the time my car was the same price as the ed30s and stil is worth the same as a few.but i am happy with the k03 gti, u just grow to love your car!  

[robdf2]

Hi Guys , new to the forum ,
Thought this was an intresting thread to post on first  .

Been reading with interest , i have a MK2 Leon Cupra , and its running 267 bhp standard according to rolling roads , claimed output is 240 bhp.
On seatcupra.net most Cupras which are rolling roaded do make above stock figures.

With regards to manufactures claims of bhp , i am led to believe they give an average account of the power figure they produce ,very similarly to fuel consumption figures , and btw i can get no where near SEATs claim either , so this shows there are inaccuracies and its not a complete science.

Tolerances on engine components and build standards , materials and process will have a marked influence on what a cars final bhp figures will be , unless we know what tolerances are involved in all the components we can not even begin to understand what figures will actually be able to be achieved.
Concessions on parts happen all the time ,for instance  if a turbo charger vains are cast or machined slightly wrong but give better airflow they may be concessed and be deemed within limits , but inreality might add 1% performance , which might not sound much but how will that 1% affect other components in the engine ? by the time the bhp is measured it could produce 5% more power , this is purely an example.

oh and btw i have been an engineer for 21 years  but i certainly dont know everything about everything and i dont watch discovery lol