Quick service question... TDI OIL

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Eurocarparts have an offer on 504.00 / 507.00 approved oil at the mo.
Triplex qx?

NOT approved!  There are NO Triplex oils having any VW approval.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Out of interest, and this is something that I have always wondered when seeing string verdicts and opinions on oil, by what measures do you conclude whether a given oil is good, bad or indifferent?
Are you monitoring wear over extended periods and comparing brands, going off basic economy / performance, time between oil changes, resultant problems and issues or what?

I'm not trying to call you out all talking rubbish, I genuinely am interested in how people reach definite opinions on something which is seemingly difficult to interpret.

There is couple of things you can look at

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100˚C, - Higher Better
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40˚C, - Higher Better
Viscosity Index - Higher for hot weather lower for cold.
Flash Point -  Higher Temp better
Pour Point - Lower temp better

And where, on the bottles sitting on the shelves of Halfrauds and the likes, do you expect to find those figures? 

Do you not actually think that folks at Wolfburg and Ingolstdat will know what they want from their oils - when they work with Castrol to develop, R&D and then create said oils? 

If that is all you think is what makes an oil, then you have an exceedingly narrow idea - and to spread your BS recommendations based on that is frankly irresponsible! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Eurocarparts have an offer on 504.00 / 507.00 approved oil at the mo.
Triplex qx?


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Triplex QX tech data sheet is not available so in my opinion is not a good oil.

Fcuk me . . . that is the first sensible comment you have made on the subject . . . I wonder if this new-found reasoning will last . . .

VW approvals don't really mean a lot to be honest

Yawn . . . fcuking yawn . . .

You really are full of utter bull sh*t.  It is globaly recognised from appropriate professional bodies (well, apart from arrongant yanks) that Volkswagen (along with Mercedes) oil standards are the most stringent and toughest in the world!  But not you . . . hey ho.  This forum tries to exist on promulgating honest fact, not mythical bulsh*t!  If you don't like that ethos, then maybe this forum isn't for you.

is just a proof that oil manufacture paid VW to be allowed to use their specification on oil label,

More BS.  VW approval actually means that the oil in question has been submitted to VW, who then test it in a TuV approved testing facility to ensure it meets the many very strict test requirements.  Yes, of course there is a fee to pay for this certification - do you provide your professional services for free?  But that fee is paid irrespective of whether the submitted oil meets said standards or fails.

there is so many oils on market without 504.00/507.00 approval on their label but meet all requirements or exceeds them.

Yawn again.  Those oils without official certification and approval may, or may NOT meet the claimed requirements - but there is actually no way of finding out one way or another!  However, the simple fact that those oil companies can't be bothered to pay a relatively insignificant testing fee for official certification (or maybe they did pay, but the oil failed!) don't really deserve to get any sales

Is just a marketing...

No it isn't.  It is professional certification, which is independently verifiable.  Which means, in my book, that the product is trustworthy and reliable.

Is always good to check ACEA approvals as well.

Do you ACTUALLY know anything about VW and other OEM oil standards?  And do you know the difference between 'standards' and 'approvals'?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Liqui Moly Diesel Synthoil 5W40 for cars without DPF
Castrol EDGE Professional 0W30  for cars without DPF

Low Saps Oils with C3 approval.

Amsoil ECF Low-SAPS 5W30 for cars with DPF fitted
Ravenol VMO 5W40 for cars with DPf fitted

NONE of which have the appropriate VW approval.  

As already mentioned, VW approval doesn't mean too much.

Sorry Jay, but you are very wrong.  If you really do think that, then please state why you think so? 

There are very high quality oils out there, which would protect your engine better than anything with a VW approval

I think you meant to say might protect your engine.  And you may well be correct - but there is absolutely no independently verifiable evidence - just hearsay.  Don't forget, an engine oil doesn't just need to 'protect' an engine, it needs to do many other things besides. 

- but they have not been submitted for approval to VW.

Maybe . . . or they may well HAVE been submitted for approval, but failed! 

These may be race oils which have a shorter service life

I won't dispute that comment at all - and am perfectly happy to 100% agree.  However, this particular thread asked what the best oil was for a TDI - surely, if someone wanted advice on racing oils, they would have asked so!

It must be recognised that true racing oils are NOT compatible with road car engines.

or that the oil companies do not want to pay VW for their approval stamp.

Maybe . . . or they did pay and fail!

Do you know how much it costs for VW approval?

Both oils are synthetinc PAO oils not like off the shelf Castrols Edge or Mobile 1 ESP etc which are not fully synthetic oils ...

What a load of uneducated bullsh*t!  Of course Castrol Edge and Mobil 1 ESP are fully synthetic!

No they're not, we've discussed this already.

Have we?  Where? 

And do you actually know what 'fully synthetic' means? 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

And your opinion is based on what?

NONE of which have the appropriate VW approval.  

What a load of uneducated bullsh*t!  Of course Castrol Edge and Mobil 1 ESP are fully synthetic!


It must be officially 'Approved' to VW 504.00/507.00.  'Meets' or 'Complies with' don't cut it.  Also, there are vastly differing qualitied of Approved oils.  Whilst they all must satisify all testing requirments - some just barely meet said requirements, whilst others meet those with considerable ease.

My opinion is based on studing various available data sheets and personal experience.

So no professional, nor independently verifiable sources?!

Anyone can study data sheets!  Anyone can but a non-approved oil their engine and not have it self destruct.

It takes a professional, or at least a competent person is au fait with both tribology and automotive engineering - to not only extrapolate statistics from data sheets, but more importantly, to correctly interpret said data, and then understand and respect the information which is NOT provided on data sheets.

5/30 Castrol Edge and Mobil 1 ESP 5/30 are not fully synthetic oils, oil base is mineral with synthetic additives...

BS.

Perhaps you would like to state exactly which base stocks they are made from!

Just because oil do not have 504.00/507.00 standard written on it dosn't mean it can not be used in your car.

The fuel filler flap on my GTI effectively states unleaded petrol is to be used.  I could put diesel in my tank.  I could cut my lawn with a pair of nail scissors.  I could put lumps of coal in my washing machine.  I could take a dump in a frying pan.

See where your logic fails?

The simple fact is that VW/Audi developed their engines to be lubricated with an appropriately approved oil meeting one of VWs own oil standards.  If you choose to put the wrong oil in your car, then that is up to you - but don't expect VW to honour any warranty, or even offer any goodwill - in the event of an engine failure - irrespective of whether the failure was due to lubricants or not.  You also affect the resale value of your car, it may fail emissions tests, and you may damage other components.

ETTO, though.

As per above this oils do not have 504/507 approval but do have ECEA C3 approval which is exactly the same thing but oil company decided not to pay VW for a licence to use their approval, simple as.

You really are a hive of mis-information!  Are you actually aware of the implications of that sentance?

I was close to perform oil test similar to one below but financial implication stopped me from doing it.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

Gosh - how many times have I seen that pdf???????  What a surprise, an Aussie car mag tests oils, and shock horror - an Aussie oil wins the test!!!!  For the record, the test which that mag used is NOT used in any of the API, ACEA or OEM oil standards, nor is it referenced by the likes of ASTM, NLGI, DIN, ECE or ISO organisations.

I have performed similar oil tests, using the correct Timken bearing rig - not to specificaly test oil - but to actually assess the credibilty and reliabilty of the Timken test.  This was a small part of my 3rd year thesis in Automotive Engineering of Performance Tuning of a Single Cylinder Two-Stroke engine.  Basically, whilst the Timken bearing test is useful, and can provide meaningful results in lubricating oils, it is relatively easy to create false 'fails'.  The Timken bearing test is more accurate for testing greases.  An this is why there are many, MANY more functional tests for lubricating engine oils.

[Alzak]

And where, on the bottles sitting on the shelves of Halfrauds and the likes, do you expect to find those figures?  

Do you not actually think that folks at Wolfburg and Ingolstdat will know what they want from their oils - when they work with Castrol to develop, R&D and then create said oils?  

I think folks at Wolsburg and Ingolstdat want our cars to last 100K miles or 3 years anything over than that is not their problem ...


Do you actually know anything about oil lubrication properties ? or you are another keyboard warrior who can just type some word without any backing ? or technical knowledge ...

[xjay1337]

This is getting out of hand with the quoting.

Sorry Jay, but you are very wrong.  If you really do think that, then please state why you think so?  Smiley

No I'm afraid I'm not.
Having a certification doesn't automatically mean that an oil is "the best quality" likewise not having one doesn't mean it's of a poorer quality.

I think you meant to say might protect your engine.  And you may well be correct - but there is absolutely no independently verifiable evidence - just hearsay.  Don't forget, an engine oil doesn't just need to 'protect' an engine, it needs to do many other things besides.  Wink

This is all pedantics. What I said is a valid statement.
Protect, clean, lubricate, cooling, any manner of terms can be used to describe what oil does and it's safe to say that there are oils out there which do not carry VW certifications which are better than VW certified ones.
This is just common sense.

I won't dispute that comment at all - and am perfectly happy to 100% agree.  However, this particular thread asked what the best oil was for a TDI - surely, if someone wanted advice on racing oils, they would have asked so!

It must be recognised that true racing oils are NOT compatible with road car engines.

And having owned a TDI and tuned it heavily and taken it to a high mileage I recommended Quantum ... from the dealers .. not a racing oil.
Why are racing oils "not compatible" with road car engines. More to say they are not really good for the CONDITIONS that road cars are driven in?

Maybe . . . or they did pay and fail!

Do you know how much it costs for VW approval?

Not the foggiest. It's all conjecture anyway.

Have we?  Where?  Walking Sad

And do you actually know what 'fully synthetic' means?  Smiley

In the other thread....... you know full well, the links (and evidential proof) were there. I am not going to find them as I can't be bothered.
And no I have no idea at all "/sarcasm."

Many castrol (and some other) oils are NOT true fully synthetic oils.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

And where, on the bottles sitting on the shelves of Halfrauds and the likes, do you expect to find those figures?  

Do you not actually think that folks at Wolfburg and Ingolstdat will know what they want from their oils - when they work with Castrol to develop, R&D and then create said oils?  

I think folks at Wolsburg and Ingolstdat want our cars to last 100K miles or 3 years anything over than that is not their problem ...

What absolute rubbish!  So Volkswagen and Audi don't have their official Approved Used Cars for cars over three years old?  VW and Audi engines - when correctly maintained, are more than capable of clocking up over 300k miles.

It would be utterly suicidal for their global business model if they built cars to only last 3 years - especially when they are premium German brands.  VWs, and moreso Audis have longevity easily on a par with Mercedes and BMW.

Do you actually know anything about oil lubrication properties ? or you are another keyboard warrior who can just type some word without any backing ? or technical knowledge ...

I'm not gonna answer that - all I will say is you seem to have a problem reading! 

[xjay1337]

Sean, you have been warned already regarding your attitude and tone towards people.....

[Teutonic_Tamer]

This is getting out of hand with the quoting.

Not really! 

Sorry Jay, but you are very wrong.  If you really do think that, then please state why you think so?  Smiley

No I'm afraid I'm not.
Having a certification doesn't automatically mean that an oil is "the best quality" likewise not having one doesn't mean it's of a poorer quality.

Official certification does mean it is the 'best' quality - for use in their cars as supplied (ie, not modified), and used for the purpose they were designed for (ie, public highway use), whilst maintaining legal requirements and a long service life.

I agree that there may be 'better' oils.  But there is two problems - because they've not been certified, there is no independent and professionally verifiable evidence.  The other is that words like 'best' and 'better' are highly subjective - I'm sure I can find a bog roll which might be better at removing my cling-ons, but it may well rip my piles to shreds.  You might get an oil which offers slightly better wear resistance - but it may well damage your cat and worsen your fuel consumption.  One person might be happy with that trade-off, others may not - and more importantly, many may not even be aware of those potential adverse effects.

I think you meant to say might protect your engine.  And you may well be correct - but there is absolutely no independently verifiable evidence - just hearsay.  Don't forget, an engine oil doesn't just need to 'protect' an engine, it needs to do many other things besides.  Wink

This is all pedantics. What I said is a valid statement.
Protect, clean, lubricate, cooling, any manner of terms can be used to describe what oil does and it's safe to say that there are oils out there which do not carry VW certifications which are better than VW certified ones.
This is just common sense.

You have still missed crucial areas of what a modern lubricant is meant to do!

And if you intend using comments like "safe to say" - then you need to back that up with some kind of professional evidence.  Not just some hearsay from some dude who goes to the same track day - but either proper certification (by either VW or any other recognised body), or by independently verifiable engine strip-down and measurements - compared to an identical use evidence on on engine run on OEM spec oil.

Maybe common sense to you - but it is anything but common sense to me, along with the professional R&D engineers at all of the automotive manufacturers.

I won't dispute that comment at all - and am perfectly happy to 100% agree.  However, this particular thread asked what the best oil was for a TDI - surely, if someone wanted advice on racing oils, they would have asked so!

It must be recognised that true racing oils are NOT compatible with road car engines.

And having owned a TDI and tuned it heavily and taken it to a high mileage I recommended Quantum ... from the dealers .. not a racing oil.

Why are racing oils "not compatible" with road car engines. More to say they are not really good for the CONDITIONS that road cars are driven in?

So you seem to detest Castrol, yet you are enthusiastically endorsing Quantum.  I'll let others comment on that - but I fear you are going to have lots of egg on your face. 

We are both right on racing oils.  Fully agree that racing oils are not good for road car conditions, but it is also factual they are not compatible either - most race oils will ruin the catalyst in a very short order.

Maybe . . . or they did pay and fail!

Do you know how much it costs for VW approval?

Not the foggiest. It's all conjecture anyway.

Take a wild guess - £100 ... £1,000 ... £10,000 ... £100,000 ... £1million ??????  I know the answer, but I'll let others have a guess too - because this 'issue' of cost of certification is repeatedly thrown around as a defence why other so-called 'better' oils don't have said VW certifications. 

And it is not conjecture - as a professional, I'd consider certification anything but conjecture!

Have we?  Where?  Walking Sad

And do you actually know what 'fully synthetic' means?  Smiley

In the other thread....... you know full well, the links (and evidential proof) were there. I am not going to find them as I can't be bothered.
And no I have no idea at all "/sarcasm."

Jay, that comment is out of order!  It was a genuine question.  Maybe I'll pm you - if you can be 'bothered' to reply. 

And sarcasm is the lowest form of whit - especially when we are having a genuine and important discussion. 

Many castrol (and some other) oils are NOT true fully synthetic oils.

You still havn't stated why!!!!  State your evidence please. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Sean, you have been warned already regarding your attitude and tone towards people.....

Erm - I am NOT going to cower to personal abuse and attacks on my professionalism.  If someone wishes to try and discredit me - then I have the absolute right to reply.

Those who know me will no doubt vouch for my technical knowledge and expertise.  I have no problem with others questioning me - but it needs to be in a reasonable manner, without insult, and with a basic competance of comprehension!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

And now Jay resorts to deleting my posts . . .

Hey ho - I think I'm now getting to understand why many other valued former contributors have left this forum.

[betty_swollox]

F**k me its kicking off in here lol  

Loved the comment about having a dump in a frying pan, lmao!


EDIT:

Gotta admit tho, turd baked in the oven is nicer than fried turd.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

F**k me its kicking off in here lol  

Loved the comment about having a dump in a frying pan, lmao!


EDIT:

Gotta admit tho, turd baked in the oven is nicer than fried turd.

Not tried that one - can you post the recipie? 

[betty_swollox]

F**k me its kicking off in here lol  

Loved the comment about having a dump in a frying pan, lmao!


EDIT:

Gotta admit tho, turd baked in the oven is nicer than fried turd.

Not tried that one - can you post the recipie?  

Honey Roast Turd

You take a freshly produced turd and coat it in a olive oil/honey glaze and add seasoning

Needs to be placed on a preheated baking tray and cooked for 30 mins on low heat, but it is best to use someone elses kitchen

Cook until the outer layer is cripsy, but leaving the centre nice and gooey

Leave to cool for 15 mins

And then enjoy