Steering rack woes.....

[Donx22]

Hi guys

had an issue at the weekend, pulled into Asda after a quite spirited B road blast, got out rh car went in, came back, big red light of death on my dash for steering.

tuerned on and off a few times nop luck still there, so drove home with no assistance and thought il stick in vcds and see what happens, went in, put  the kettle on while the laptop weas botting up, cam back out and tunedd car on, everythings fine.....
very odd.
so i cleared the codes and checke fthed fuses, same problem again, lights on, and also stabiltiy control and everthign else etc.
so i checked the big fuses and tapped them, have 2 more arriving today to replace them, cleared the codes and its been fine since until last night, another spirpeted drive home and when i pulled into the drive i noticed a kind of springy noise, clinky almost, i thought it was the front left top moun almost noise but it only does it whien turning right. ive noticed this a few times now. tuned engine off, turned it back ion, right steering light again 


this mornign turned it on and its fine?!? Im goign to go pick up some mor ekf the 80amp fuses and swap them this evening. does it sound like the rack is on the way out? is a 57 plate so i thought it would be ok.also if anyone knows can i fit a mk6 rack and it doesn't change the ratio? i can get a reliavly new mk6 rack from a wagon from 2012 with low milage for not to much so this would be my first choice if people seem to think this is rack game over.

any advise people??

[SI-R32]

what were the codes you cleared?

[Donx22]

I can't remember the exact code as dont have my laptop here but it said coulnd not connect, implausable signal i believe.
I know it definatly had a g85 problem also

I have checked the torque sensor and seems to be working fine. just went out now and not codes on the car even though i ndind not reset them from last night.

If i turn the wheel clockwise when i get near fiull lock i hear an metal on metal screach/scratching noise, its really quite loud, but turning the other way no issues, ive heard that this is the the first symptom of the rack dying. Car has 115k on now.

I will upload codes when i get  home if i can't rmemebr before then.
 

[Donx22]

OK it happened again on the wya hopme this evening, was fine until i pulled into my drive. turned it off, tuned it on just to check and hey presto 3 loud beeps and red steering warning.

so plugged in VCDS and i get 2 errors in steering

00003- Control Module
            014 - Defective
00003 - Control Module
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaption

Checked the torque sensor and it gets a reading of 0 nm and no rotor speed.
temp was 40 oC if that makes any difference
now turn it on and off and few times and hey presto it works fine again
although every time i tunr it on the red light goes on dash.... and then turns off if it works or stays on and bleeps if not. occasionally only orange light would come on then off and work. seems very temperamental and seems to work fine if given a rest but will not start again if its been  driven.... what then hell is going on?

I assume its just a dead rack and I should get a new 1.

changed the main 80 amp fuse to no help. will replace the other 2 small ones tomorrow but they seems fine and i checked them. 

My head says only possible now is rack....

so next question. whats the latest rack I can get that should plug and play?

I would rather get a mk6 rack as they should be newer and better condition.
I rang my parts guy at VW who confirmed my rack is a ver2 although he couldn't tel me if i could install a ver3 or not but i'm pretty sure it can be done, the loom just need to be changed?

If anyone can help me asap with confirming the rack is definitely the problem or help with part no's before i start dropping cash on big aprts. i really need to try and get one tomorrow and its nott going to happen over bank holiday and then i can fit it at weekend.

Cars meant to be going to get front end sprayed over on Tuesday and ive been on a waiting list for 5 weeks for paint guy to work his magic and now i cant drive it there damnit lol 

[SI-R32]

unfortunately i can't give you any info on them codes you need to cross reference ross techs site to see what the problem is but you can fit gen 3 steering rack to a gen 2 one.

here is some info on it

Assembly overview - electromechanical steering box, right-hand drive vehicle (2nd generation) up to model year 2008

  Note
t   There are no 2nd generation steering boxes available as spare parts.
t   If the steering box has to be replaced, a new 3rd generation steering box will have to be fitted.
t   In addition, the electrical wiring harness from the E-box to the steering box will then also have to be renewed. This is included with the order for the new steering box via the → Electronic parts catalogue„ETKA“.
t   The electrical wiring harness will be delivered with the cable for the service interval display.
t   In vehicles without a service interval display, the unused 3-pin connector must be sealed by a flat contact housing with connector position assurance -1J0 973 803- → Electronic parts catalogue„ETKA“.

so its not just a straight swap mate some wiring bits need sorting, let me know if i can help with part numbers?

[Donx22]

Thanks for the help, looks like I new to replace rack then

Current part no fitted is 1k2 423 055 scoring to my parts guy, do you know what part numbers i would need for rack and loom by any chance? Will a golf wagon steering rack be the same from 2012!? If you
Need a reg for my vehicle or Vin to help?

Thanks again

[Donx22]

Infact i have just done a scan and this is what it comes up


Addres 44: Steering Assist   Labe;s 1Kx-909-14xc-44.clb

Part NO. 1K2 909 144M

Component: EPS_ZFLS KL.074 H08 1901

Now i believe that part no to be a mk6 part anyway? so does that mean the rack has previously been replace or i wont need the extra loom if i buy a mk6 rack?

[SI-R32]

sorry i didn't get back to you i fell asleep

its not quite as simple as that, the control module has its own part number as such but comes as part of the steering rack which is the main number you need, this is not read by vcds

both gen 2 and gen 3 have the same part number as they dropped gen 2 to have gen 3 fitted with new wiring

1K2423055K   may have an X on the end as this is an exchange part

the new wiring is unfortunately 90 ish quid from VW is 1K2971111AJ

whats a golf Wagon? if you mean plus or estate then they eventually used after some supersession the same part number as above but would be gen 3 by 2012 here is a pic of the difference

 

Differentiating between 2nd and 3rd generation steering boxes
From model year 2009, a new, 3rd generation, steering box is being used. It replaces the 2nd generation steering box.
To identify the type of steering box while it is fitted, count the number of bolts with which the steering box is attached to the subframe.
–   Raise vehicle.
The 2nd generation steering box is attached to the subframe with 4 bolts and the 3rd generation steering box is attached with 3

[Donx22]

You sir are a legend!

Sorry I meant estate when I said wagon (to much time working in the industry, il be saying hood next  )

Ok i will get onto TPS today and get a loom ordered, should be able to pick up the rack this aft boon arm then it's just fingers crossed!

Il kept you know how it goes, quick last question, do I need a fitting kit for the gen 3 rack to gen 2 subframe? 

[vRSAlex]

Fitting kit is a pair of boot, clips and grease. Only needed if swapping over the old track arms.

Coding can be a pain as it's an odd procedure. Not too hard though.

[Donx22]

Ta guys 

From what i understand i need to turn off the internal G85 sensor on the rack? http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=346700&page=2

and then it all should start singing togther he says.....

[SI-R32]

How did you get on today mate?  Hope all went well

[Donx22]

Indeed! I have rack sitting next to me which I needs to clean up a bit, gen 3 part no 1k0 909 144N or that may the control unit, anyway has about 10k on it and is 18 months old!
One new wiring loom from TPS also sitting here as they had then in stock, didn't order the fitting kit as I got whole rack and I have new rack ends in the garage for the mk5 which I was going I put on next alignment so that that sorted! 

All new bolts for subframe also sitting here so hopefully will swap them over in the morn, should have it done by lunch and then it's just coding it.....   

Thanks for all the help mate! Much appreciated
1 question that's been puzzling me all say tho.... So now with the gen3 racks you can't change the profile of the steering feeling.!?!? So will the new rack feel like an estate or are all the new racks the same an then I an push details of my car being a gti onto it!? Or is it all down to caster trail and alighnment and the setting makes no difference to steering feel!?!? Very confused!

[SI-R32]

That's a very good point, the rack is what holds the characteristic curve for your steering,  so your probably going to need a trip to vw for that one, annoying I know but I will probably be bland steering for now

[Donx22]

That's not to much of a problem I can't see them charging me more than an hours labour. Il try crack on with the rack off in the morn and let you know how it goes