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Author Topic: How bad are these discs?  (Read 6178 times)

Offline garrardrj

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2014, 11:06:37 am »

Every time i get a new car i take it to bits and go over it with a fine tooth comb . The amount of time you find that the bolts on the wheels are too tight and no lubricant/grease on them is virtually guaranteed , same with the face of wheel onto the hub , also corroded and un lubricated . The issue with brakes can generally be overcome with a steam clean and a spray lubricant/grease without dismantling . Perhaps a regular off roaded LR or similar might have a drastic corrosion to cause brake issues - yes . After my initial exam and grease etc i wouldn't do it again , i never have a car more than 4 years .


Do you really mean that you use grease on wheel studs/nuts?  :laugh:

Why not ? Do you not know how Studs and nuts keep tight ?
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Offline biffobear

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2014, 12:29:38 pm »
When I was a mechanic, on a standard service, the wheels would be removed and because at the time most cars had drums on the rear, the drums would be removed, drums, wheel cylinders shoes and adjusters checked and cleaned then adjusted. The front pads, calipers and  discs visually checked, and that's it

Offline Viking

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2014, 04:30:50 pm »

Every time i get a new car i take it to bits and go over it with a fine tooth comb . The amount of time you find that the bolts on the wheels are too tight and no lubricant/grease on them is virtually guaranteed , same with the face of wheel onto the hub , also corroded and un lubricated . The issue with brakes can generally be overcome with a steam clean and a spray lubricant/grease without dismantling . Perhaps a regular off roaded LR or similar might have a drastic corrosion to cause brake issues - yes . After my initial exam and grease etc i wouldn't do it again , i never have a car more than 4 years .


Do you really mean that you use grease on wheel studs/nuts?  :laugh:

Why not ? Do you not know how Studs and nuts keep tight ?

I'm well aware of how nuts and studs and suchlike work.

Do you understand about torque values, and lubrication of threads of torqued bolts etc.?
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Offline stuart-88

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2014, 07:17:06 pm »
I've personally never known or worked in a garage that services front brakes unless specified during a routine service.

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Offline garrardrj

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2014, 09:31:54 pm »

Every time i get a new car i take it to bits and go over it with a fine tooth comb . The amount of time you find that the bolts on the wheels are too tight and no lubricant/grease on them is virtually guaranteed , same with the face of wheel onto the hub , also corroded and un lubricated . The issue with brakes can generally be overcome with a steam clean and a spray lubricant/grease without dismantling . Perhaps a regular off roaded LR or similar might have a drastic corrosion to cause brake issues - yes . After my initial exam and grease etc i wouldn't do it again , i never have a car more than 4 years .


Do you really mean that you use grease on wheel studs/nuts?  :laugh:

Why not ? Do you not know how Studs and nuts keep tight ?

I'm well aware of how nuts and studs and suchlike work.

Do you understand about torque values, and lubrication of threads of torqued bolts etc.?

Yes -   :happy2:

http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/posts/13070.html

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Offline Chris92

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2014, 09:58:43 pm »

Every time i get a new car i take it to bits and go over it with a fine tooth comb . The amount of time you find that the bolts on the wheels are too tight and no lubricant/grease on them is virtually guaranteed , same with the face of wheel onto the hub , also corroded and un lubricated . The issue with brakes can generally be overcome with a steam clean and a spray lubricant/grease without dismantling . Perhaps a regular off roaded LR or similar might have a drastic corrosion to cause brake issues - yes . After my initial exam and grease etc i wouldn't do it again , i never have a car more than 4 years .


Do you really mean that you use grease on wheel studs/nuts?  :laugh:

Why not ? Do you not know how Studs and nuts keep tight ?

I'm well aware of how nuts and studs and suchlike work.

Do you understand about torque values, and lubrication of threads of torqued bolts etc.?

Yes -   :happy2:

http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/posts/13070.html



By lubing the wheel studs your basicaly over tighting the studs.

Offline Viking

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2014, 10:00:16 pm »

Every time i get a new car i take it to bits and go over it with a fine tooth comb . The amount of time you find that the bolts on the wheels are too tight and no lubricant/grease on them is virtually guaranteed , same with the face of wheel onto the hub , also corroded and un lubricated . The issue with brakes can generally be overcome with a steam clean and a spray lubricant/grease without dismantling . Perhaps a regular off roaded LR or similar might have a drastic corrosion to cause brake issues - yes . After my initial exam and grease etc i wouldn't do it again , i never have a car more than 4 years .


Do you really mean that you use grease on wheel studs/nuts?  :laugh:

Why not ? Do you not know how Studs and nuts keep tight ?

I'm well aware of how nuts and studs and suchlike work.

Do you understand about torque values, and lubrication of threads of torqued bolts etc.?

Yes -   :happy2:

http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/posts/13070.html



So you'll already know that applying grease or oil based products to wheel bolts will possibly lead to over-torquing due to factual torque values being deceived. Unless you're applying torque reduction values to the bolts when tightening them you run the risk of shearing the bolts, or tightening them to the point they will be impossible to remove after time.
Sarcasm for free. Anything after that can only be considered as a bonus.

Just because you think you know something, doesn't make you an expert if you've just read it on the internet, y'know.

Offline garrardrj

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2014, 10:06:31 pm »



[/quote]

By lubing the wheel studs your basicaly over tighting the studs.
[/quote]

You take that into account . There has been alot of problems with studs breaking or being stuck , especially the locking wheelnut studs . Our mini when we bought it was 18 months old and the nuts were so tight i had to use a 3' breaker bar to undo them , the locking wheel nut on two wheels snapped off and we had to weld onto the remaining nut to get them off . I also had to walk 5 miles (when i was 18) before the days of mobile phones in the rain as i couldn't change a flat tyre due to the nut being on so tight ! Oddly after lubing wheel nuts (only a little) for 33 years since i have never had a puncture again !
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Offline mvb12

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2014, 10:16:58 pm »




By lubing the wheel studs your basicaly over tighting the studs.
[/quote]

You take that into account . There has been alot of problems with studs breaking or being stuck , especially the locking wheelnut studs . Our mini when we bought it was 18 months old and the nuts were so tight i had to use a 3' breaker bar to undo them , the locking wheel nut on two wheels snapped off and we had to weld onto the remaining nut to get them off . I also had to walk 5 miles (when i was 18) before the days of mobile phones in the rain as i couldn't change a flat tyre due to the nut being on so tight ! Oddly after lubing wheel nuts (only a little) for 33 years since i have never had a puncture again !
[/quote]

do you get tyre punctures because of the tightness of the nuts?  :confused:
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Offline garrardrj

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2014, 10:35:10 pm »
No !

But you can't get the flat one off to put a new one on 5 miles from the nearest phone !
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Offline Chris92

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2014, 10:36:13 pm »




By lubing the wheel studs your basicaly over tighting the studs.
[/quote]

You take that into account . There has been alot of problems with studs breaking or being stuck , especially the locking wheelnut studs . Our mini when we bought it was 18 months old and the nuts were so tight i had to use a 3' breaker bar to undo them , the locking wheel nut on two wheels snapped off and we had to weld onto the remaining nut to get them off . I also had to walk 5 miles (when i was 18) before the days of mobile phones in the rain as i couldn't change a flat tyre due to the nut being on so tight ! Oddly after lubing wheel nuts (only a little) for 33 years since i have never had a puncture again !
[/quote]

Did you tighten the studs correctly when they got stuck and snapped? Sounds like the last person to have the wheel off was hanging from a 12ft pipe to tighten them.



Offline garrardrj

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2014, 10:52:46 pm »




By lubing the wheel studs your basicaly over tighting the studs.

You take that into account . There has been alot of problems with studs breaking or being stuck , especially the locking wheelnut studs . Our mini when we bought it was 18 months old and the nuts were so tight i had to use a 3' breaker bar to undo them , the locking wheel nut on two wheels snapped off and we had to weld onto the remaining nut to get them off . I also had to walk 5 miles (when i was 18) before the days of mobile phones in the rain as i couldn't change a flat tyre due to the nut being on so tight ! Oddly after lubing wheel nuts (only a little) for 33 years since i have never had a puncture again !
[/quote]

Did you tighten the studs correctly when they got stuck and snapped? Sounds like the last person to have the wheel off was hanging from a 12ft pipe to tighten them.



[/quote]

I was undoing them -  Keep up ! How many times in 18 months do you think the wheels had been off !
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Offline stealthwolf

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2014, 10:53:09 pm »

do you get tyre punctures because of the tightness of the nuts?  :confused:
It's called Sod's law.

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Offline Chris92

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2014, 11:00:11 pm »




By lubing the wheel studs your basicaly over tighting the studs.

You take that into account . There has been alot of problems with studs breaking or being stuck , especially the locking wheelnut studs . Our mini when we bought it was 18 months old and the nuts were so tight i had to use a 3' breaker bar to undo them , the locking wheel nut on two wheels snapped off and we had to weld onto the remaining nut to get them off . I also had to walk 5 miles (when i was 18) before the days of mobile phones in the rain as i couldn't change a flat tyre due to the nut being on so tight ! Oddly after lubing wheel nuts (only a little) for 33 years since i have never had a puncture again !

Did you tighten the studs correctly when they got stuck and snapped? Sounds like the last person to have the wheel off was hanging from a 12ft pipe to tighten them.



[/quote]

I was undoing them -  Keep up ! How many times in 18 months do you think the wheels had been off !
[/quote]

Yes I know that but who tighten them last was what I was meaning. Once again who ever tighten them last before you undid them tighten them far to much. I'm sure If you read it again I made that clear  :happy2: the wheel only need to be off once.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 11:06:52 pm by Chris92 »

Offline flashp

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Re: How bad are these discs?
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2014, 08:15:50 am »
I use copper slip on my wheel bolts to stop them seizing. It's vital that the seat (which is the friction surface not the thread) remains free of grease as that will cause torque applied to rise excessively when tightening. The wheel bolts protrude through into an area of the hub where they become contaminated with corrosion, so much so that a few weeks after buying mine I wanted the wheels off for a refurb and with the assistance of an extension on my breaker bar they eventually yielded after 3 hours. All of the bolts showed distortion to the thread profile and were agreed to be scrap by Peter Cooper and were replaced under warranty.

They also confirmed that under normal servicing conditions the wheels never come off. They also bleed brakes with wheels on, so make of that what you will.

When I used to service my own vehicles I did all that the OP has mentioned and would agree that these tasks are required, I've resolved all sorts of issues with this approach. The frequency is up to the individual. Hats off to the OP I say.  :smiley:

As to main dealer servicing, you don't get value for your £100+ per hour but it makes some people feel better.

From the dealer I had bits of my OE air filter missing, discovered that one rear shock had been replaced, not a pair. JKM inspected my vehicle on day 2 of ownership and resolved these issues and others that it was not the policy of the main dealer to address unless expressly requested.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 08:20:05 am by flashp »

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