Bioethanol vpower moonshine (moved thread)

[SteveyD]

Hi all, apologies in advance because I did origionally post this topic in the tech section...

I'm fortunate to live 10 mins away from one of the few morrisons pumps in the uk currently selling bioethanol.  As you may know this stuff has a stupidly high octane rating of about 107 (it's also a greener fuel some say, although production has a big carbon footprint).  Some cheap unleaded fuels already contain 5% bio to make them cheaper etc, the vw handbook suggests that there engines are perfectly safe to run on a 5% mix.

I can't take credit for this because it was actually beddies find but here's the idea..

Currently the bio on sale is 85% bioethanol 15% petrol, I think 106 ron.  So with some clever mathmatics I work out a mix ratio that is equal to 85% petrol (vpower 99 ron), and 15% bioethanol (factoring in that it's already only 85% pure) giving me a fuel with a guessed ron factor between 101-105 whilst still keeping the mixture to engine friendly levels.

I know that a lot of people on scooby.net are actually having remaps written for this.

I'm doing a track day on Saturday and this could be a perfect easy increase of bhp, but I'm also aware this if done wrong could be fatal, I know a bloke who worked on the new bently engine and getting it to run on bio meant pretty much a brand new engine design.

I'd love any ideas, thoughts, experience, advice on this one guys do please let me know your thoughts on my "moonshine".

Oh and failing that, does anyone use the nos 7 point octane boost from halfords (not road legal and £20 per full tank)

steve

[Hurdy]

Sounds like it could be possible......try it and if it works let us know!.......if not let us know .....I love a guinea pig, so take one for the team Steve

Seriously though, I'd rather try octane booster over a couple of tanks for adaptation and then go racing. I am currently awaiting some 4 point octane booster and then I'm going to try the 999 setting on REVO stage 2+ again on the same dyno that I ran on last week to see if it does make a difference. I'll also try and get some logs done at the same time

[SteveyD]

This weekend I did actually try this out, I ended up putting 4.77 litres into my tank and the results were smoother acceleration and an increase in throttle response, I'm currently only running stage1 but I did notice a difference.  Tonight I have filled up with optimax as usual and even my girlfriend had noticed the difference, the power gains seem to be more noticable at higher revs/speeds.

So in a nutshell I think it works, well thats obvious given the ron rating of bio but how safe it is to run this full time seems somewhat of a black art.  After spending hours on google I am drawing blanks to any answers.  Of course vw will say it's a no no.... But is it? 

Tomorrow I'm trying the £20 nos 6 octane boost but I'm not expecting much.

[Top Cat]

What Ron rating is the fuel station right next to the ring. 

I say this as when we where there earlier in the year SteveP was using fuel that fast, that he only just made it to this station. I think it was 103 or 105 ( could be wrong ) but there was a definate performance hike almost straight away we were both pretty shocked. 

[Blade]

Anyone got a link showing where you can find this fuel?

[chungster]

Hurdy....you can't run the 999 setting on REVO surely...as thats max boost / max advanced timing / LEANEST FUEL setting!

 

that can only end up in a BIG BANG scenario!

[Hurdy]

Hurdy....you can't run the 999 setting on REVO surely...as thats max boost / max advanced timing / LEANEST FUEL setting!

 

that can only end up in a BIG BANG scenario!

I'm currently running Boost 9 timing 6 and fuelling 9. The dyno's I've been on over the last few weeks show that the AFR is still between 11 and 11.5 and so still relatively rich. All I'll need to do is set the timing from 6 to 9 for the race fuel setting to match the 103ron I should be getting from the octane booster and get some logs to see how it is running.

I was talking to DomT earlier today and his appears to be running slightly leaner than mine even though his fuel setting is set lower than 9. This could either be down to the fuel pump difference (I am running Autotech and Dom APR) or possibly a slight difference in cam lobe wear. Either way it means fuel setting 9 is basically standard for me.

[SteveyD]

What Ron rating is the fuel station right next to the ring. 

I say this as when we where there earlier in the year SteveP was using fuel that fast, that he only just made it to this station. I think it was 103 or 105 ( could be wrong ) but there was a definate performance hike almost straight away we were both pretty shocked. 

the petrol station next to the ring (with all the model cars inside) only sells 98, there is a station in adenau that sells 100 I'm sure (it could well be 99 though) just before the motorway exit point for the ring the sell shell racing 100... Why oh why can't they sell that to us Brits?

[SteveyD]

Anyone got a link showing where you can find this fuel?

http://www.morrisons.co.uk/Store-finder/About-customer-services/Store-services/Petrol-stations/Locations-with-E85/

[SteveyD]

By the way what are the genuine (if any) long term negative effects of running even a small amount of bio?

After all it's the fuel of the btcc and surely seat couldn't re-design the 2.0t due to regulations etc?

[SteveP]

What Ron rating is the fuel station right next to the ring. 

I say this as when we where there earlier in the year SteveP was using fuel that fast, that he only just made it to this station. I think it was 103 or 105 ( could be wrong ) but there was a definate performance hike almost straight away we were both pretty shocked. 

the petrol station next to the ring (with all the model cars inside) only sells 98, there is a station in adenau that sells 100 I'm sure (it could well be 99 though) just before the motorway exit point for the ring the sell shell racing 100... Why oh why can't they sell that to us Brits?

The one TC is talking about is Ultimate 100, it's the station near the half lap entrance to the ring 

On this I could dial in Revo timing 7 with very very low correction factors.

[tony_danza]

Stevey, Tom said their V8 basically ate anything rubber when running on the stuff, so they completely re-designed the fuel system from tank forwards and re-built the engine to run on it. I'll get the full info from him, obviously trimmed down as he'll go into engineer mode and I'll get lost!! Lotus has done likewise.

Your theory is sound, Tesco99 is normal unleaded with 5% E85 to bring the octane up. That still comes into BS I believe. Morrisons are sticking even more in theirs and have lost their BS... so there's some headroom.

I reckon a 5% VPower/E85 mix has got to be safe and it'll bring it up a couple of octanes. You know who used to put a heavy mix of Toluene in the R32 and that's still running fine... that thing was frightening on the stuff!

[MancBen]

To quote..... "BioEthanol can only be used in flex-fuel vehicles including the Saab 9-5 BioPower and the Ford Focus FFV"

[tony_danza]

That's the pure stuff from the pump, Ben. Very nasty

[MancBen]

That's the pure stuff from the pump, Ben. Very nasty

Ah right, I see now - he's looking to blend it.

Some cheap unleaded fuels already contain 5% bio to make them cheaper etc  ...  This is not the case, fuels contain bio due to gov't regulations enforcing the use of 5% sustainable, renewable, components. The bio part actaully cost more to produce than the petrol part, but due to incentives this is currently negated. This incentive gets scrapped next year, so don't be suprised when petrol goes up accordingly.

Tony - E'85' refers to the % of Ethanol in the blend.. ie you can't have 5% Ethanol in an E85 blend... that would be E5.

... sorry for being a pedant. but this stuff is my job