Lets talk brakes: Grooved & drilled vs Grooved

[tony_danza]

I'm sure I've seen a set of Zimmermann 345s, I'd call/email and ask.

Otherwsie, lots of big Audis use the same type of disc and there may be a crossover. DaveB1970 is your man to ask.

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Awright chaps,

The great drilled/grooved debate will rage on for ever.

I can have any discs drilled, when it comes to solid lumps of cast iron then as opposed to the Mk4 R32 disc which was semi floating and a patented design and lightweight, the disc is in reality nothing special.

I use either SBS or Bremtech aftermarket discs which have a good carbon content, they are cast in the UK which is the home of foundry ISO standards so good quality material is assured.

Discs very often are neglected, either electro nickel plating when new or powder coating the exposed surfaces should eliminate rust which can cause hot spots, which then causes problems with pads which in turn causes problems with discs and the circle of crap braking continues.

Basically -
Drilled look better, for track days better than plain - provide a gas path so fast road/track
Grooved ultimately better on track, can also act as a min thickness indicator when milled correctly - dont underestimate how noisy they are

There are interesting new styles such as J-hook and eliptical. AP racing are really revved up about these new designs apparently especially J hook.

My R32 discs are drilled as the R32 disc just isn't a track disc, its thickness would allow some favourable heat build up for a couple of laps better treat it as a fast street/occasional track day disc and drill it accordingly.

Its important that any CNC drilling program is well though out and the pillars internally are avoided, on a straight vane disc, invariably this leads to a curved pattern which is what I ended up with on mine which are in addition painted brembo grey around and up the bell and on the edge to prevent corrosion, they're also etch primed under the powder coat.

Its also imperative that the drilled holes are machine countersunk, ideally with a curved cutter this should eliminate cracking but a few cracks are acceptable.

Its just a different program to mill some grooves as opposed to drilling.

More so than ever I wouldn't be hung up over OEM discs on this particular disc or model save your cash for better pads, this is where most of the work is done. Mikes right you could have the best pads in the world if you dont bed them in properly then you're going backwards before you shut your door

[Poverty]

Good informative post daveb1970, but im afraid to say that I am now more lost than ever. Are you recommending that I stick with the OEM discs, or go with something other than those Tarox discs?

[tony_danza]

What I think he is saying is the right pad for your car is key, the disc only comes into play when you've made that right choice.

You get too low a temp pad and you'll cook it, it'll smear crap all over any disc and judder. You get too high a temp pad and it'll never give you what it is capable of.

You want everything complimenting each other.

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Without sounding slopey shouldered - Im saying thats there's no performance benefit from sticking with OEM discs, there really isn't anything special about them compared to a good quality Bremtech or SBS disc. There will of course be a certain comfort factor by buying OEM and thats a good reason for buying them

Im suggesting that for the price of OEM you could get a very equivalent disc in terms of quality and some £change£ to high temp paint it and have them grooved increasing longevity

I just cant see the benefit in the Tarox cheesegraters especially.

EBC discs are dimpled - so whats the point no gas path!

A lot of discs are hardened as a marketing tool, this just means that they are more brittle and very susceptible to warping and temp changes if you make something hard then its more brittle, if yo make something soft then it'll bend but not break making it again susceptible to warping and temp changes lol.

Like everything brakes its finding the balance

[Poverty]

Right well I think its gonna most definetly be ferodo ds2500 pads or mintex. I do alot of stamping on brakes from high speeds so do sometimes get a bit of loss of feel, and slight fade.

Have emailed ATE about their powerdiscs and lightweight 2 piece discs and also zimmermann so will see what they say.

Have posted this thread on other sites also and alot of people are saying to steer clear of EBC.


Comfort and noise doesnt matter to me, its just that I need a new set of front discs, and I might aswell uprate them if possible.

So you recommend I get some bremtechs?

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

What I think he is saying is the right pad for your car is key, the disc only comes into play when you've made that right choice.

You get too low a temp pad and you'll cook it, it'll smear crap all over any disc and judder. You get too high a temp pad and it'll never give you what it is capable of.

You want everything complimenting each other.

Posts crossed ^^^^

All pads have lubricants in them to make them road freindly, in the case of Mintex and TMD group pads such as Pagid or Textar its done chemically, in Ferodo pads they introduce Rubber into the mix of the pad to add stability and avoid the "flutter" that causes squeal. Which is why when they get hot they leave deposits  - thats hot burnt rubber on your paintowrk and wheels

I would use medium temp range noisy track pads on the track as a starting point and road pads on the road, you will go quickest doing this. All road pads are Reg90 and are therefore OEM equivalent in the letter of the law but some OEM equivs are better than others.

Textar or Pagid OEM equivs are exactly that, a lot of Brembo style pads are made in Italy by a company called GALFER, these are very good but dont do aftermarket just OEM only, the ATE style pads on the R32 by textar and Pagid are excellent and half the price of OEM.

The 4045 compound in Porsche OEM pads is exactly the same as Textar aftermarket pads just 1/2 the price! Theres many cases like this

[Janner_Sy]

jesus christ dave you know your brakes. lol

for guys who just have R32 345mm setup and cant afford to go BBK what would your reccomendation be when keeping discs and pad sizes Oem. but getting as much performance as poss

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Call Brakes International on 01706 666999

BPT2942 are Textars for the Mk5 R32 42 quid

BDC6152 are bremtech and are about 150

Both plus VAT

Out of curiosity what would OEM R32 discs and pads cost....?

If they give you a different price than those tell them account number DB21 if you decide to buy them.

They'll cope admirably with what you could throw at them on the road

[Hurdy]

I have TAROX 2 piece F2000 discs on my car and they are great. I've used them on the track, at the 'ring and for slowing down from very high speeds and they work very well.  

[Janner_Sy]

I have TAROX 2 piece F2000 discs on my car and they are great. I've used them on the track, at the 'ring and for slowing down from very high speeds and they work very well.  

you have a nice set of 10 pots clamping onto them though hurdy

[Poverty]

Call Brakes International on 01706 666999

BPT2942 are Textars for the Mk5 R32 42 quid

BDC6152 are bremtech and are about 150

Both plus VAT

Out of curiosity what would OEM R32 discs and pads cost....?

If they give you a different price than those tell them account number DB21 if you decide to buy them.

They'll cope admirably with what you could throw at them on the road

Thanks

BRAKE DISC (345x30mm) 1K0615301M qty 2 £55.94 ea

PAD SET 1K0698151B £41.19

rear pads £28

Those prices are with dealer discount.

Is it ok to keep the standard rear discs and get uprated rear pads for them?

[tony_danza]

I'd echo Dave's comments on having 2 sets of pads.

I have Carbone Lorraine RC6s for hot days and Carbotech XP8s for anything else on track. You'd live with them on the road, but why waste your money? If you're getting that much heat into brakes on the road to cook something like a set of Pagids, you're doing it wrong.

[Janner_Sy]

is it ok to just swap pads around whist keeping the sma e discs??

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

The other thing is that in the main race pads are cheap, just bought some AP 3215's in Mintex 1144 AND 1177's at the weekend and had changeout of £100 inc VAT.

What are DS's now £125?

Mintex 1144's are a great "clubman" pad apparently, Mike how did J.Casey fair at the weekend with these said he was going to give them a go - any idea?