Going to machine polishing please advise

[RifGTi]

Hey guys

I've been trying to get the swirl marks out of my car. I've tried various products all of which have not worked very well.

I own a black standard gti

I use the following products to clean the car
-2 bucket method
-Lambs wool wash mitt
-meguires gold class shampoo and conditioner

Afterwards I have tried these  products ( after clay bar)

-farecla g3 scratch remover . This did absolutely nothing for even the smallest scratch but worked flawlessly with my wife corsa
-meguiares ultimate compound- again didn't do much but did notice a reduction when used with the super resin polish. With this I used the G3 scratch remover applicater
-autoglym super resin polish ( i do at least 3 passes)
- i use the meguiars sot foam pads when using the polish
-megs NXT wax to top it all off

After using the ultimate compound and then the super resin polish for the first time  the car did look beater against the sun but not sure if this was a combination of the 2 products  or just the filler effect of the polish.

I'm at a point where I find that working by hand is too long and does not give the the results I want  and I don't want to waste money on anymore compounds that potentially wont work by hand

Im thinking of using a machine polisher and Ive got my eyes on the kestral das 6

Now this is where Im getting confused. Im not to sure on what pads and brand to use and same with the compounds
Im tempted to try the meguiars ultimate compound as ive heards it has a similar cutting ability to the m105 compound and it maybe that the speed of a motor will correct things.

I've read jays guide to detailing and the menzerna/hexlogic looks appealing but again im not sure on what pad/compound combination to use

I am keen on using the autoglym super resin polish as last layer as i really like the shine it give. I would appreciate any advice about this

Ive attached a pic showing out the types of swirls on my car

[DDM]

Hi mate, I use farecla g3 on paintwork when I'm flatting and polishing,  and you'll need a machine to use this, but even when using the machine it'll leave swirl marks, I then use farecla g10 after which is a finer compound, again with the machine using a white buffing head, then I change to a black polishing head and use poorboy's black hole glaze, followed by a coat of Autoglym hi definition wax, the results are like glass. Here's a pic of a bumper I just re sprayed yesterday that I flatted right back until it was like a matt finish then buffed and polished it until it looked like that.

[xjay1337]

By machine is really the only way to remove swirls.
By hand you are wasting your time, often using harsher compounds by hand you will actually inflict more damage than you remove.

You have to be careful what polishes you use if you are new to paint correction as you can easily do more harm than good
i have written a guide which i recommend you read to get you started it's stickied at the top of the detaling subsection.

the products don't really matter that much you just need to be aware of what's out there and more importantly how to use what products you actually decide to buy/use

[RifGTi]

Ive had a read of ur guide earlier( which i have to say is brilliant )

I have come across this set on cleanyourcar.co.uk

 one with menzerna pads

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/machine-polishing-pads/car-polishers/das-6-dual-action-polisher-menzerna-kit/prod_522.html?page=1#tab3

one with sonus pads

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/machine-polishing-pads/car-polishers/das-6-dual-action-polisher-sonus-kit/prod_520.html

The sonus looks good as they appear to have pad to match product but im tempted to go with one or the other

just wondering what you guys think

[chris-182]

you really need to use a machine mate, start with a softish pad and a less aggressive polish, and work your way up if you are struggling. remember to keep touching the paint to make sure it's not getting to hot

[xjay1337]

Pads are pretty much of a muchness, there are differences definately but if you've not used any others before it's hard to compare.
I personally don't like flat pads i much prefer ones such as the hexlogic or the 3m pads which have a texture to the surface, especially with harder pads as I find it helps make them less grabby and easier to control.

You'll be fine with most things although I would avoid Menzerna pads just as an FYI as they really don't get on well with DA's.

[Stevie35]

For using with a DA try meguiars microfibre system, works a treat I used it on my GFs old black S3 and it came out good. If you already have ultimate compound that would probably do just get suitable pads for this and another polish to refine with. Have a good search through YouTube for various guides there is hundreds of videos but you should find something for specific products u want to use.

Try to get an old bonnet to practise with first or just be brave n jump in. Check out detailing world for extra info that's where I got most of my info when I started.

[Hevoshullu]

First of all, correcting the hard VAG black paint will take a lot of time and patience. Also it is important to be familiar with the technique of machine polishing in theory before starting it in practice. I would recommend reading this guide: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859 as well as this http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/images/misc/rotarypolishing.pdf

As for your car, the black VAG paint can be a pain to correct with a dual action machine. The DAS-6 basic model is not powerful enough for the job and even the more powerful DAS-6 Pro will struggle to correct your paint. Using normal common sense you can easily start off with a rotary machine (it's not as dangerous as the internet makes you believe it is). You need to be aware of leaving holograms into the paint and just take it a little bit easier with plastic body parts with a rotary machine. For your case I would probably get the Shinemate EP801 rotary polisher, a 3,5" M14 backing plate, Hex-logic pads in 5,5" and 4" sizes (at least orange, green, blue and black) and them Scholl Concepts S17+ and S30+ compounds. The Scholl compounds are lovely as they work much faster than the traditional Menzerna ones and they don't leave any dust behind.

I don't know about Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, but I wouldn't use the Farecla G3 for paint correction as there are so much better compounds available. AG super resin polish is just an all-in-one product that fill up and mask the swirls. It also doesn't last very long at all, and the swirls come back in sight after just a few washes.

[xjay1337]

First of all, correcting the hard VAG black paint will take a lot of time and patience. Also it is important to be familiar with the technique of machine polishing in theory before starting it in practice. I would recommend reading this guide: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859 as well as this http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/images/misc/rotarypolishing.pdf

As for your car, the black VAG paint can be a pain to correct with a dual action machine. The DAS-6 basic model is not powerful enough for the job and even the more powerful DAS-6 Pro will struggle to correct your paint. Using normal common sense you can easily start off with a rotary machine (it's not as dangerous as the internet makes you believe it is). You need to be aware of leaving holograms into the paint and just take it a little bit easier with plastic body parts with a rotary machine. For your case I would probably get the Shinemate EP801 rotary polisher, a 3,5" M14 backing plate, Hex-logic pads in 5,5" and 4" sizes (at least orange, green, blue and black) and them Scholl Concepts S17+ and S30+ compounds. The Scholl compounds are lovely as they work much faster than the traditional Menzerna ones and they don't leave any dust behind.

I don't know about Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, but I wouldn't use the Farecla G3 for paint correction as there are so much better compounds available. AG super resin polish is just an all-in-one product that fill up and mask the swirls. It also doesn't last very long at all, and the swirls come back in sight after just a few washes.

I corrected my car with a Das6 pro with no problems... Orange Hexlogic and FG400. Some panels did take a couple of hits but nevertheless 

I also find that S17 is not enough to get a good result even with a rotary.  Regularly need to use S3 with an orange Hex logic.
Regarding dusting it's typical of any aggressive polish to leave dust, FG400 is Menzernas most aggressive compound and leaves far, far less dust than either S3 or S2 Orange, but then again it's not quite as aggressive IMO

The problem with going straight to a rotary is that they are harder to use, the machine CAN and DOES want to go any which way on the paint, very pad/polish/paint dependant if it's sticky or anything, and you CAN do more damage more easily because their is no safety net.. You can still do damage with a Dual action, but unless you have a forced drive one if you press too hard or go onto a panel edge the pad will simply stop spinning.. it's (almost) impossible to hologram with a DA especially on harder VW paint like you say, so you can hit it pretty hard.

The Meguiars MF system makes pretty light work of harder paint with a DA, it works well but you do have to keep re-fluffing the pads, which is typical with any MF or wool pad i guess.

[Hevoshullu]

I corrected my car with a Das6 pro with no problems... Orange Hexlogic and FG400. Some panels did take a couple of hits but nevertheless 

I also find that S17 is not enough to get a good result even with a rotary.  Regularly need to use S3 with an orange Hex logic.
Regarding dusting it's typical of any aggressive polish to leave dust, FG400 is Menzernas most aggressive compound and leaves far, far less dust than either S3 or S2 Orange, but then again it's not quite as aggressive IMO

The problem with going straight to a rotary is that they are harder to use, the machine CAN and DOES want to go any which way on the paint, very pad/polish/paint dependant if it's sticky or anything, and you CAN do more damage more easily because their is no safety net.. You can still do damage with a Dual action, but unless you have a forced drive one if you press too hard or go onto a panel edge the pad will simply stop spinning.. it's (almost) impossible to hologram with a DA especially on harder VW paint like you say, so you can hit it pretty hard.

The Meguiars MF system makes pretty light work of harder paint with a DA, it works well but you do have to keep re-fluffing the pads, which is typical with any MF or wool pad i guess.

You are right, and I do agree with your points. It's just a matter of taste really, I guess. I just think a Golf V with a hard paint and fairly simple and easy body shapes is not a too difficult platform to start out with a rotary. Surely you can achieve all the same results that a rotary will give you also with a DA. I too did my Tornado Red last summer with a DAS-6 Pro, orange Hex and Menzerna PF2300. It just takes so long to even achieve like a 70 to 80% correction in my opinion. Especially because thread starter's black paint is properly swirled up, to achieve the same results a 10 hour job with a rotary will give, it might take over double the time with a DA if there are some deeper marring in the paint. Would you agree? :)

Once one gets the hang of using a rotary machine, there is really no going back to a noisy and vibrating DA. I do admit that some very soft or sticky paints might need the help of a DA to refine the finish.

[xjay1337]

I defo agree, working with DA is slower.

I barely use DA's anymore, I have my D6P sat somewhere but most of the time I use either a 3m rotary or a Flex one and both are far, far nicer to use.  Like you say, much less vibration. The time saved can be depending on the kind of paint, on harder paints you are saving a lot of time. Can do a car in about 50% of the time as you say!!

On softer paints it's not really much in it, especially as you don't have the necessity to refine when using a DA, although it is recommended.

[rocky_rullez]

http://store.carcareeurope.com/pulidora-orbital-ez-polisher-880W.html

It's my option

[WolfsburgEd]

First of all, correcting the hard VAG black paint will take a lot of time and patience. Also it is important to be familiar with the technique of machine polishing in theory before starting it in practice. I would recommend reading this guide: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859 as well as this http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/images/misc/rotarypolishing.pdf

As for your car, the black VAG paint can be a pain to correct with a dual action machine. The DAS-6 basic model is not powerful enough for the job and even the more powerful DAS-6 Pro will struggle to correct your paint. Using normal common sense you can easily start off with a rotary machine (it's not as dangerous as the internet makes you believe it is). You need to be aware of leaving holograms into the paint and just take it a little bit easier with plastic body parts with a rotary machine. For your case I would probably get the Shinemate EP801 rotary polisher, a 3,5" M14 backing plate, Hex-logic pads in 5,5" and 4" sizes (at least orange, green, blue and black) and them Scholl Concepts S17+ and S30+ compounds. The Scholl compounds are lovely as they work much faster than the traditional Menzerna ones and they don't leave any dust behind.

I don't know about Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, but I wouldn't use the Farecla G3 for paint correction as there are so much better compounds available. AG super resin polish is just an all-in-one product that fill up and mask the swirls. It also doesn't last very long at all, and the swirls come back in sight after just a few washes.

Sorry to resurect this thread but there is some useful noobie info here on pad and compound choice.

http://www.lakecountrymfg.com/applicationguide/lakecountry-pad-application-guide.pdf

Based on the above quote of getting Orange, Green, Blue and Black (possible White?) pads with the two names Scholl Concepts compounds and the link to Lake Country's chart is the recommendation to use Orange with S17, Green with S17, Green with S30, Blue with S30, White with S30 and then glaze with Black and seal / wax with Blue?

[Orc]

I used a rotary with all the appropriate pads and substances for the first time on my black edition 30 about a year ago and now it's still all I use go slow and take it easy it's pretty good to use and unless your doing some serious forcing you won't burn through dude. I find it works way quicker than my mates das 6 that just takes forever, absolutely love my rotary and won't go back.

[Shedboyzz]

Agree with everyone above. Give up polishing by hand and probably go to a detailer to achieve a decent correction. I used KDS in Essex