GruppeM

[RedRobin]

^^^^


What pension? Can't you see I've spent it already? 

[T88OMM]

^^^^


What pension? Can't you see I've spent it already? 

I think you have about 20 years worth of pension money in carbon fibre alone Robin 

[RedRobin]

I think you have about 20 years worth of pension money in carbon fibre alone Robin 

.... Hush!

Peeps like Manu are catching me up though.

That GruppeM is hot eye-candy and will be doing some of what the Forge TWINtake does by drawing from two sources of air flow. Don't air intakes deliver more gains on normally aspirated cars?

[Manu_R32]

I think you have about 20 years worth of pension money in carbon fibre alone Robin 

.... Hush!

Peeps like Manu are catching me up though.

That GruppeM is hot eye-candy and will be doing some of what the Forge TWINtake does by drawing from two sources of air flow. Don't air intakes deliver more gains on normally aspirated cars?

Peeps like Manu are 20 year old students that care more about their car than anything else lol

[stealthwolf]

I wonder how much the GruppeM intake would be if the cover wasn't CF.

[RedRobin]

Peeps like Manu are 20 year old students that care more about their car than anything else lol

....And peeps like RedRobin are 60 year old gits who care more about their car than anything else. 

[RedRobin]

I wonder how much the GruppeM intake would be if the cover wasn't CF.

....^ A question which is quite often asked.

CF is certainly a relatively expensive material (depending on quality and application its needed for), but it's also expensive in terms of being very labour intensive to prepare and finish, and skill is also required. I know this because a good friend of mine works with CF and I've seen the processes first-hand. Very high standard formers/moulds also sometimes need to be made.

The alternative materials such as plastics may initially appear to be cheaper but they also can incur even higher initial tooling and manufacturing costs etc requiring very high volumes of sales.

When looking at the cost of CF products we tend to forget that the material has very good heat resistance properties which are valuable in an engine bay environment.

For quite irrational reasons which are difficult to define, carbonfibre as a decorative material simply has high value as eye-candy for some of us.

Whatever the material, all manufacturer's costs have to be clawed back and factored into the unit sales price to the consumer - Otherwise the manufacturer fails as a business and there ain't no useful product on offer. This is fundamentally why I tend to generally support producers and frown upon those who don't care two figs as long as they get something for next to nothing.

I rest my case for carbonfibre.

[tony_danza]

You'd knock out a vacuum forming mould for one of those in no time and for very little money. China would do them for 5p a go and Robert's your father's brother. If they had any sense as a business and true faith in their design they'd offer both - thus proving performance with mass market take up if it works and offering eye candy for the Magpies/name whores with the CF option.

Plastic is a terrible conductor of heat and don't forget it still in 99% of cases will use the OEM PLASTIC airbox that's wrapped around a nice hot engine... negating the point of the carbon against plastic. I'll bet pound to a penny there'd be no measurable difference in performance between the two if you used a clone mould.

So, because you're only paying for the name and the fact it's CF. It's not worth buying.

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Very easy for you to say, sat in your armchair, Mike. I'd like to see you do it and survive as a business.

Whereas I appreciate "it's not worth buying" in your opinion, I really don't think you should make people feel they are "magpies/name whores" or other derogatory terms, if they buy the GruppeM.

Regardless of the 'good sense' and theory about saving money every which way you can, I wouldn't mind betting that if a company did offer the two alternatives of plastic and CF, they would still sell enough in CF.

Plastic is a terrible conductor of heat and don't forget it still in 99% of cases will use the OEM PLASTIC airbox that's wrapped around a nice hot engine... negating the point of the carbon against plastic. I'll bet pound to a penny there'd be no measurable difference in performance between the two if you used a clone mould.

....I was talking generally about CF in response to stealth's post. I agree that the GruppeM will probably be of more benefit if it fed directly to a pipe rather than via the oem plastic box.

I don't expect there would be significant difference in performance if GruppeM used plastic instead of CF, but I don't have any hesitation in deciding which I'd prefer to see under my hood.

Your whole approach is never to spend more money on anything if you can buy something similar for less, and mine is if I've got the money available and I want something then I simply buy it because I can't take the money with me - I'll doubtless die poor but very happy. I respect your attitude but I don't think the same way.

Bottom line is Each To Their Own 

[Smiler]

Group Buy anyone

 http://www.r32oc.com/group-buys/17659-gruppe-m-deal.html

[tony_danza]

It isn't a go at your values Robin, more at the insanity of GruppeMs.

I buy the best regardless of looks or name - cost is the last factor.

GruppeM's business model:

Niche market of high end products - sell (purely for example) 100 units a month to a core market of people who WANT their product... doesn't matter what it does, so long as it's CF and says GruppeM.

Here's my version of their business model:

I take the same mould for CF intakes and produce a more affordable plastic range called "GruppeM Sport" and sell 1000 units a month on top of the 100 CF ones, because the kind of people who buy the CF will still always choose it. I open up a market to people who want the name but can't afford the CF.

Who do you think makes the most money?

Rolex sell probably a thousand times more of their cheapest range than the top end - why? Because people want the name. Does this reduce the amount of top end ones they sell?? no, because those with money will always want the most expensive/flashiest - the rest will mimic and aspire.

[Jules86]

The gruppe m was amazin on the type r mate, it does well on the M3 to, go for it! I expect it will sound awesome!

[RedRobin]

It isn't a go at your values Robin, more at the insanity of GruppeMs.

I buy the best regardless of looks or name - cost is the last factor.

GruppeM's business model:

Niche market of high end products - sell (purely for example) 100 units a month to a core market of people who WANT their product... doesn't matter what it does, so long as it's CF and says GruppeM.

Here's my version of their business model:

I take the same mould for CF intakes and produce a more affordable plastic range called "GruppeM Sport" and sell 1000 units a month on top of the 100 CF ones, because the kind of people who buy the CF will still always choose it. I open up a market to people who want the name but can't afford the CF.

Who do you think makes the most money?

Rolex sell probably a thousand times more of their cheapest range than the top end - why? Because people want the name. Does this reduce the amount of top end ones they sell?? no, because those with money will always want the most expensive/flashiest - the rest will mimic and aspire.

....Yes, I agree with your thinking on the business model. It's well known that a 'top-end' costalot but ultra-cool product will invariably work as a flagship driving high sales of a cheaper product from the same brand. I think they call them Lost Leaders. I have heard said that the GTI does a lot for ordinary Golf sales even.

To some extent, perhaps some of us aspire to much higher powered cars via showing off our carbonfibre, even if we do so unconsciously. It's by association.
 

[stealthwolf]

Some may know me well enough to know I'm not a huge fan of CF. Hence if GruppeM did a non-CF version, I'd be considering it up along with the other CAIs.

I can't help but feel the CF is more for the eye-candy than function.

[RedRobin]

^^^^
CF's eye-candy factor is certainly a major influence - It's just something that appeals directly to some people's aesthetic senses but not to everyone's.

Somehow I bet that if GruppeM did offer a cheaper plastic version it would still be waaaay more expensive than most of the other CAI's.