Running No Roll bars? - Can a suspension guru cast their eye on this please.

[GTI-Ross]

I have a MK6 GTI and currently run 28mm Front ARB and 24mm Rear ARB. (H&R set)

Now with this set up I get zero body roll and handles superb on dry flat road. But over the winter they haven't fared that well on damp or uneven roads, which I know is to be slightly expected. But I have felt bigger deterioration in grip than I was expecting. It can easily lose front grip if they turn is quite tight, I dont like the feeling of losing grip at the front so i looked for some info on roll bards and found the below video.

This guys seems really clued up and suspension set ups, he said as long as combined with right shocks and springs its better not to run ARB at all? Can this be true, and can it be an option for me?

(great video - watch all the way through)

[jason_rmh]

I've heard this also. If the suspension is good enough, and chassis is stiff enough, the arb may not be needed.
I guess you'll need a strut brace / unibrace and get your suspension set up right.
I'm no suspension expert though so hopefully someone with more knowledge can back this up.

Jas

[Eccie]

Ross are you running winter tyres? (seem to recall you living up-north) its been a fairly cold winter so far, if your not running them they would make a big difference

[GTI-Ross]

Ross are you running winter tyres? (seem to recall you living up-north) its been a fairly cold winter so far, if your not running them they would make a big difference

No unfortunately I dont have winter tyres on. And yes its been a bad winter. I can never justify buying them for the 5 days of snow e have.

Ill see how things go in the spring. but i might go back to stock ARB and get new shocks and springs as im still on stock ones.

[Eccie]

Ross are you running winter tyres? (seem to recall you living up-north) its been a fairly cold winter so far, if your not running them they would make a big difference

No unfortunately I dont have winter tyres on. And yes its been a bad winter. I can never justify buying them for the 5 days of snow e have.

Ill see how things go in the spring. but i might go back to stock ARB and get new shocks and springs as im still on stock ones.

You know they aren't just for snow - they are for the colder months, make a big difference and give great confidence when the temp drops and I'm only standard Gti power

[GTI-Ross]

Ross are you running winter tyres? (seem to recall you living up-north) its been a fairly cold winter so far, if your not running them they would make a big difference

No unfortunately I dont have winter tyres on. And yes its been a bad winter. I can never justify buying them for the 5 days of snow e have.

Ill see how things go in the spring. but i might go back to stock ARB and get new shocks and springs as im still on stock ones.

I know mate, just so much to pay for at the minute, Might try pick some up in the summer when they are cheaper.

You know they aren't just for snow - they are for the colder months, make a big difference and give great confidence when the temp drops and I'm only standard Gti power

[cooljimy84]

Is there not different holes on the bars to soften them up a bit. I know my mk4 golf had a upgraded front ARB and it had two sets of holes, one closer to the bar and the other further away.
Changing them around in winter helped with road holding, but not as much as winter tires.

[flashp]

I have had winter tyres on mine at 330bhp and 350lbft during our tropical winters on the south coast and they make a massive difference in the cold weather. They're not marginally better they're way, way better. Can't over state that point.

[GTI-Ross]

Is there not different holes on the bars to soften them up a bit. I know my mk4 golf had a upgraded front ARB and it had two sets of holes, one closer to the bar and the other further away.
Changing them around in winter helped with road holding, but not as much as winter tires.

Front is already set to soft and rear set to hard.Advised this would be the best setup. If the rear were to be set soft as well it would oversteer even more.

[cooljimy84]

Is there not different holes on the bars to soften them up a bit. I know my mk4 golf had a upgraded front ARB and it had two sets of holes, one closer to the bar and the other further away.
Changing them around in winter helped with road holding, but not as much as winter tires.

Front is already set to soft and rear set to hard.Advised this would be the best setup. If the rear were to be set soft as well it would oversteer even more.

I can see the logic there, but in wet/cold weather is it not better to have a little more give, in the suspension, to allow a gradual translation from grip to no grip ?

I've always thought that a stiffer car will handle worse in the wet, bescuase its so ridged ....

To late at night to Google, but will double check myself in the morning.

[GTI-Ross]

Is there not different holes on the bars to soften them up a bit. I know my mk4 golf had a upgraded front ARB and it had two sets of holes, one closer to the bar and the other further away.
Changing them around in winter helped with road holding, but not as much as winter tires.

Front is already set to soft and rear set to hard.Advised this would be the best setup. If the rear were to be set soft as well it would oversteer even more.

I can see the logic there, but in wet/cold weather is it not better to have a little more give, in the suspension, to allow a gradual translation from grip to no grip ?

I've always thought that a stiffer car will handle worse in the wet, bescuase its so ridged ....

To late at night to Google, but will double check myself in the morning.

Yeah the stiffer the car, the less grip you have in the wet or dry. A really stiff car only works really well if the road is 100% flat (like a track)

But if you dont have the rear stiffer than the front you will massively understeer, so i have to have the rear set to stiff.

[rich83]

Is there not different holes on the bars to soften them up a bit. I know my mk4 golf had a upgraded front ARB and it had two sets of holes, one closer to the bar and the other further away.
Changing them around in winter helped with road holding, but not as much as winter tires.

Front is already set to soft and rear set to hard.Advised this would be the best setup. If the rear were to be set soft as well it would oversteer even more.

Other way round. Soft rear=understeer. Stiff rear=oversteer

[GTI-Ross]

Is there not different holes on the bars to soften them up a bit. I know my mk4 golf had a upgraded front ARB and it had two sets of holes, one closer to the bar and the other further away.
Changing them around in winter helped with road holding, but not as much as winter tires.

Front is already set to soft and rear set to hard.Advised this would be the best setup. If the rear were to be set soft as well it would oversteer even more.

Other way round. Soft rear=understeer. Stiff rear=oversteer

Correct, typo on my behalf.

[cooljimy84]

Arrrr yes.