Revo DSG Software (Stage 2)

[SteveP]

Nope it's not the mechantronics, it's the communications protocol.

The late 2008 cars like the Pirelli use a can bus based system where as the original ones (like mine) use the older style K-line comms. 

Steve,

Please forgive me, but can you explain what CAN means & K-Line mean ?

It's the language the car's ECU communicates to the gearbox with, CAN is the latest technology that is becoming more common and is what the rest of the car mainly uses.

[Top Cat]

Nope it's not the mechantronics, it's the communications protocol.

The late 2008 cars like the Pirelli use a can bus based system where as the original ones (like mine) use the older style K-line comms. 

Steve,

Please forgive me, but can you explain what CAN means & K-Line mean ?

It's the language the car's ECU communicates to the gearbox with, CAN is the latest technology that is becoming more common and is what the rest of the car mainly uses.

SteveP, DomT and Bacillus can also use this form of communication when speaking to each other. 

Geeeeks 

[Poppa Dom]

 

[Rich]

Nope it's not the mechantronics, it's the communications protocol.

The late 2008 cars like the Pirelli use a can bus based system where as the original ones (like mine) use the older style K-line comms. 

Steve,

Please forgive me, but can you explain what CAN means & K-Line mean ?

It's the language the car's ECU communicates to the gearbox with, CAN is the latest technology that is becoming more common and is what the rest of the car mainly uses.

What are the benifits of CAN technology as averse to K-Line ?

[SteveP]

^^^ I knew that was coming 

In terms of the DSG gearbox I would there is probably no noticable benefit (from the driver or performance point of view), I suspect the later cars use the can bus protocal as this is the standard, so most things within the car that are electronically controlled communicate via the can bus protocal.

If you want to get really geekie then check wikipedia 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I would be interested to learn more about how REVO achieve these results and whether any of these effect the component lifespans ?

Me too - but I don't think Revo would be too keen on giving away their hard earned 'trade secrets'. 

e.g. increased torque limit , hows that done? (pump pressure I believe), will kit reduce the life of the pump?
       higher rev limit , is the std drivetrain up to it? (edit : valves / pistons / rods etc )
       how much extra does this extend you mph change points?

I think the publisised 'torque limitations' on the 6-speed DSGs (max 350Nm) have been well and truely dashed - what torque is Hurdy now pushing?

Regarding 'pump pressure' - I don't actually think they can increase the oil presure - I reckon what they do is simply increase the speed of actuation of the electro-hydraulic valves and pistons (which 'release' each clutch pack).  I doub't there is any change in speed in which the actual gear cogs engage - because the DSG works on a 'pre-select' principle.

And onto the potential damage to the engine (valves, pistons, rods, etc) - well these will be protected by the rev-limiter in the engine ECU - so the DSG remap shouldn't technically affect this.

      also would you recommend a DSG oil change prior to having this done?

As with anything relating to modifications - if there is any potential likelyhood of said modification affecting the durability or longevity, then a reduction in service intervals should be highly advisable.  So in real terms, if you have an engine remap and a DSG remap, and drive according to proscribed performance gains, then I would personally strongly recommend halving the DSGs standard scheduled oil & filter change from 40k miles down to 20k miles.  Don't forget, on a standard DSG fluid change, you don't actually completely drain the box - there is still a residual of just under 2 litres of the old fluid in there (DSG fluid change is approx 5.5 litres, whereas full from dry is 7.2 litres).

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Nope it's not the mechantronics, it's the communications protocol.

The late 2008 cars like the Pirelli use a can bus based system where as the original ones (like mine) use the older style K-line comms.  

Are you sure the DSG is K-line controlled?  I thought all modules on the Mk5 were CAN-BUS controlled - as is evident when carrying out an 'Auto detect' VCDS scan.  Ironically, my B7 RS4 does not auto detect - which means that some modules are non-CAN . . . . 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Nope it's not the mechantronics, it's the communications protocol.

The late 2008 cars like the Pirelli use a can bus based system where as the original ones (like mine) use the older style K-line comms. 

Steve,

Please forgive me, but can you explain what CAN means & K-Line mean ?

It's the language the car's ECU communicates to the gearbox with, CAN is the latest technology that is becoming more common and is what the rest of the car mainly uses.

What are the benifits of CAN technology as averse to K-Line ?

Hmmmm . . . I'm not 100% up to speed on electronics protocols (so forgive me for any errors/cock-ups), but basically K-line could best be described in laymans terms as 'analogue', whilst CAN-BUS could be described as 'digital'.

K-line - uses full voltage/current transmissions over copper wires.

CAN-BUS - CAN means Controller Area Network, and it utilises a 'BUS' which is basically a kind of 'master artery', usually fibre optic, which replaces many individual separate copper wires.  The BUS can support multiple packets of dual-direction communication, and the BUS can also support a multiple number of simultaneous communications (basically, the BUS can cope with say fuel sender information at the same time as brake lights, at the same time as electric windows, and so on).  CAN generates (and recieves) minute 'pulses' of electricity along the BUS to a CAN-enabled receiver ECU (a pulse to turn on a brake light, a pulse to engergise the fuel pump; and can recieve a pulse FROM the brake light [that the bulb is actually illuminating], or a pulse from the fuel sender for the level of fuel).

So with K-line, you are restricted to the limitations of copper wires, but with CAN-BUS, there are absolutely no limitations - which is why modern CAN cars may have upto 80 or more separate ECUs.

HTH

[Hurdy]

Nope it's not the mechantronics, it's the communications protocol.

The late 2008 cars like the Pirelli use a can bus based system where as the original ones (like mine) use the older style K-line comms.  

Are you sure the DSG is K-line controlled?  I thought all modules on the Mk5 were CAN-BUS controlled - as is evident when carrying out an 'Auto detect' VCDS scan.  Ironically, my B7 RS4 does not auto detect - which means that some modules are non-CAN . . . . 

Yeah, the DSG uses K-line.

Steve jr at Statllers had no end of trouble trying to connect to the TCU due to this when he loaded the GIAC DSG software.

Oh and the last dyno at Awesome threw up 415lbft!!!

[PDT]

I often find that DSG cars that have REVO DSG software make much better torque figures on my dyno than DSG ones that have no transmission software.

[RedRobin]

Oh and the last dyno at Awesome threw up 415lbft!!!

....What would worry me about that is how torque is said to be the DSG killer. Surely you wouldn't want any more torque than that, John.
The DSG box is apparently the same in both K03 GTI and K04 Ed30.

[RedRobin]

I often find that DSG cars that have REVO DSG software make much better torque figures on my dyno than DSG ones that have no transmission software.

....But isn't that partly because remapped DSG boxes allow an easier dyno run without shift interference?

[Top Cat]

WhoooooOOOSH cabang! Look who has graced us with his presence.

I just mentioned you yesterday.     Werz ya bin. 

[PDT]

I often find that DSG cars that have REVO DSG software make much better torque figures on my dyno than DSG ones that have no transmission software.

....But isn't that partly because remapped DSG boxes allow an easier dyno run without shift interference?

If I compare 2 dyno runs from the same car with same engine software, the later graph with the DSG software produces an extra 20ft/lb. No interference from shifting.

[RedRobin]

I often find that DSG cars that have REVO DSG software make much better torque figures on my dyno than DSG ones that have no transmission software.

....But isn't that partly because remapped DSG boxes allow an easier dyno run without shift interference?

If I compare 2 dyno runs from the same car with same engine software, the later graph with the DSG software produces an extra 20ft/lb. No interference from shifting.

....There can't be a better comparison than that  . I am of assuming same day dyno and therefore temperatures etc (doubtless goes without saying).