MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: jacobrownoly on October 12, 2015, 07:59:00 pm

Title: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on October 12, 2015, 07:59:00 pm
Hey guys, Intercooler time! Car is suffering from bad heat soak! Looking at getting the S3 intercooler from Darkside Development. http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/genuine-audi-s3-intercooler-with-alloy-end-tanks-for-mk5-platform.html

Its meant to be slightly thicker than the standard s3 one. Looks good for £300.

Then I came across this on eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TFSI-2-0T-Intercooler-Skoda-Audi-TT-TTS-S3-A3-Golf-VW-Scirocco-Seat-Leon-HOSE-/191278030028?tfrom=201391631279&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined

Looks pretty good too for the price of £185 which includes hoses.

Anyone come across these from Direct Tuning Parts?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: th3_f15t on October 12, 2015, 08:27:42 pm
It's currently out of stock but looks OK, good sized core as well at 2.25 inches. Can't really go wrong for that money!
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on October 12, 2015, 08:55:43 pm
It's currently out of stock but looks OK, good sized core as well at 2.25 inches. Can't really go wrong for that money!

Thats what I thought too! The dark side one would probably be better quality.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on October 13, 2015, 12:26:50 pm
Anyone else?
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Gaz on October 13, 2015, 09:47:35 pm
Ebay one is a bargain if its decent quality! Its a massive core, not sure if that might cause some issues..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 14, 2015, 12:35:16 am
I have the S3 along with a FORGE FMTC.
Not sure if your OEM has plastic ends like ours does in the states, but yes, the S3 is a thicker core and has alloy end caps. Plus, it removes some o-ring coupling and has hose and clamp connections.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on October 14, 2015, 09:38:01 am
I have the S3 along with a FORGE FMTC.
Not sure if your OEM has plastic ends like ours does in the states, but yes, the S3 is a thicker core and has alloy end caps. Plus, it removes some o-ring coupling and has hose and clamp connections.

Was it an easy install??
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Paradox1 on October 14, 2015, 03:19:12 pm
I have the S3 along with a FORGE FMTC.
Not sure if your OEM has plastic ends like ours does in the states, but yes, the S3 is a thicker core and has alloy end caps. Plus, it removes some o-ring coupling and has hose and clamp connections.

Was it an easy install??

Its a time consuming install. the forge twintercooler(or Ebay equivalent) would be easier to fit.

the S3 style cooler takes ages as you have to take part the whole front end.

there is guides on here you can follow though
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Madone on October 14, 2015, 09:00:35 pm
Not a 5 min job, the 'proper' way to do it to remove the rad etc, I think you can do it by leaving the rad in place and removing everything round it but need to be careful not to bend the air con pipes etc
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Paradox1 on October 15, 2015, 10:54:08 am
I got one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-MK5-2-0-TFSI-04-08-HIGH-FLOW-FMIC-FRONT-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER-KIT-/390459527807?hash=item5ae933927f

Brand new and havent fitted it yet. they say its good for 400bhp

Had a look at the kit and it does look pretty decent with pipes and the silicone hoses too
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on October 15, 2015, 11:35:14 am
Haven't seen that kit before but it looks good. Couple things missing i can see:

A bracket to mount the intercooler to the car. The two brackets shown are to mount to the radiator and AC rad once the old intercooler is removed.

A Bayonet adaptor/fitting to convert the original pipework to work with a silicone joiner as pictured


**edit** This one looks to have everything you would need for the same price and from the same seller!?: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390479753508
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: hlcst on October 15, 2015, 11:49:51 am
Haven't seen that kit before but it looks good. Couple things missing i can see:

A bracket to mount the intercooler to the car. The two brackets shown are to mount to the radiator and AC rad once the old intercooler is removed.

A Bayonet adaptor/fitting to convert the original pipework to work with a silicone joiner as pictured


**edit** This one looks to have everything you would need for the same price and from the same seller!?: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390479753508

Another spot the difference
http://www.direnza.co.uk/audi-a3-s3-vw-golf-front-mount-intercooler-kit-3318.html

Most of the companies selling these are actually the same company just with different ebay accounts but the same paypal account
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Paradox1 on October 15, 2015, 12:11:55 pm
Good find!

I checked mine when I got it and I have all the parts. I just used that link for example.

I think this type of cooler would replace the oem one already fitted wouldn't it?

the core itself it thick and quite wide. I can get some pics up later if anyone is interested
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: hlcst on October 15, 2015, 12:18:26 pm
Good find!

I checked mine when I got it and I have all the parts. I just used that link for example.

I think this type of cooler would replace the oem one already fitted wouldn't it?

the core itself it thick and quite wide. I can get some pics up later if anyone is interested

Are you going to be fitting it yourself?
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on October 15, 2015, 12:24:09 pm
The OEM cooler can be removed thanks to the box tube brackets that come with it. Without them you would need to leave the original intercooler in place when fitting this kit unless you fabricated your own brackets, or destroyed your old intercooler to steal the end tanks as they also serve as the bracket to mount the other rads

£229 delivered is a bargain so long as it all fits/works
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Paradox1 on October 15, 2015, 12:24:49 pm
Yeah I will be doing all the work myself.

Currently looking a getting a 2.0 TSI but should all fit the same id imagine
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: hlcst on October 15, 2015, 12:26:51 pm
Definitely get some build pics mate :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Paradox1 on October 15, 2015, 12:27:18 pm
The OEM cooler can be removed thanks to the box tube brackets that come with it. Without them you would need to leave the original intercooler in place when fitting this kit unless you fabricated your own brackets, or destroyed your old intercooler to steal the end tanks as they also serve as the bracket to mount the other rads

£229 delivered is a bargain so long as it all fits/works

There is another guy on this forum(cant remember his name now) but he has this kit. I messaged him for a review and he said he's had it for 5 years with no problem. he is only on a stage 1 map but he said it handles it perfectly. Once I change the turbo, (still deciding) I will see how much this cooler can flow. worst case, just buy a bigger core
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 19, 2015, 10:54:54 pm
I have the S3 along with a FORGE FMTC.
Not sure if your OEM has plastic ends like ours does in the states, but yes, the S3 is a thicker core and has alloy end caps. Plus, it removes some o-ring coupling and has hose and clamp connections.

Was it an easy install??
The Forge FMTC is easy...I did that one. The OEM-to-S3 is a bit more consuming. It sits just ahead of the radiator at the core support...so, much more is involved there.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Paradox1 on October 22, 2015, 10:37:57 am
Definitely get some build pics mate :happy2:

I keep forgetting the get pics of my cooler, hopefully at the weekend though
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on November 02, 2015, 01:18:54 am
Update on my intake temps. Logged the car tonight which was quite a cool night 9 degrees. Saw a max intake temp of 24degrees. Is that not high considering it was a cold night ??

Still waiting to install my s3 intercooler
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on November 02, 2015, 06:40:57 am
Depends on a lot of things. Was 24 degrees the peak reading under WOT at the top of a gear i.3. 3rd or 4th, ot the peal figure logged which could/does include slow speed/being stationary?

If thats under WOT at standard power/boost then thats not great
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on November 02, 2015, 11:13:19 am
Depends on a lot of things. Was 24 degrees the peak reading under WOT at the top of a gear i.3. 3rd or 4th, ot the peal figure logged which could/does include slow speed/being stationary?

If thats under WOT at standard power/boost then thats not great

It was a peak number at WOT in 3rd gear.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on November 10, 2015, 07:27:03 pm
Out of interest how much can these cars in terms of BHP typically lose because of Heat soak??

Also, if I go for the S3 Intercooler as well as a Twintercooler would this be overkill for a KO3 turbo?

Thanks
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 12, 2016, 06:29:01 pm
So this happened today  :pomppomp: :wink:



(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fxx214%2FJacobrownoly%2FIMG_2371.jpg&hash=6d489c526b7fe28bea705d1955db1bfeb6720a34)
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Mitch H on January 12, 2016, 06:52:28 pm
Seen wellycoolers that r tech are supplying? I havnt really done any research on intercooler a but need to! With hpfp and intercooler fitting going back to r tech in the summer
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 13, 2016, 12:18:30 am
Quick update on the air tec intercooler. Took the car for a long drive tonight and on my boost gauge once I hit 20 and above psi the car starts holding back and juddering  :confused: it start making an almost popping sound too as it hits 20psi with the boost gauge needle going all over the place.

Any ideas?? Over boost?? Boost leak??

I have scanned with VAG com before and after install and no faults appeared. I think it's a boost leak even thought we made sure the new hoses fitted tight.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on January 13, 2016, 07:34:48 am
Impossible to say without data. A fault code scan won't help before you've been out and run the car

Sounds like either a misfire or perhaps fuel cut. Try logging boost and fuelling, check for misfires under load etc.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 13, 2016, 12:03:36 pm
Impossible to say without data. A fault code scan won't help before you've been out and run the car

Sounds like either a misfire or perhaps fuel cut. Try logging boost and fuelling, check for misfires under load etc.

I logged the car the night before with the standard intercooler and everything was fine. It's just since I have changed the the intercooler.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on January 13, 2016, 12:14:04 pm
Again, need new logs whilst the issue is occurring to understand what the cause is. Logs taken when there was no fault/issue won't help

What map do you currently have? it sounds like a misfire to me - get the misfire counter open on VCDS and log it whilst replicating the issue. Have you changed both the plugs and coilpacks?
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 13, 2016, 12:25:54 pm
Again, need new logs whilst the issue is occurring to understand what the cause is. Logs taken when there was no fault/issue won't help

What map do you currently have? it sounds like a misfire to me - get the misfire counter open on VCDS and log it whilst replicating the issue. Have you changed both the plugs and coilpacks?

Coils packs where changed last year and I am sure the plugs where too. I am going to get it on the ramp now and see if the hose connections are loose. I will keep you posted. Failing the issues with the hoses I will log.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 16, 2016, 11:14:49 pm
Again, need new logs whilst the issue is occurring to understand what the cause is. Logs taken when there was no fault/issue won't help

What map do you currently have? it sounds like a misfire to me - get the misfire counter open on VCDS and log it whilst replicating the issue. Have you changed both the plugs and coilpacks?

So changed spark plugs today to the NKG laser platinum, seems to have solved it! Is it just coincidence that the spark plugs needed changed after an uprated intercooler??

When we removed the old spark plugs they seemed quite black in colour at the tips. Does this mean the engine is running too lean?? What vag blocks should I log with the new plugs??

I will keep an eye on things but hopefully the new plugs have worked!

Thanks
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: r5gtt on January 16, 2016, 11:34:39 pm
More air = more fuel = more spark for combustion?.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 16, 2016, 11:39:29 pm
More air = more fuel = more spark for combustion?.

I see, I am revo stage 2+ and have the ability the tweek the settings with the sps switch. Should I be rich out the fuel more or lean ??? My fuel is on F6 at the minute

Thanks
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on January 16, 2016, 11:41:05 pm
How many miles had the old plugs done? What grade are the plugs? old and new.....?

Plugs you want are http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk)
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 16, 2016, 11:47:08 pm
How many miles had the old plugs done? What grade are the plugs? old and new.....?

Plugs you want are http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk)

Old plugs probably did about 6k miles, not many at all (they where NKG too)  I just changed to NKG laser platinum.

I noticed as well the car is running on B9 the psi is near 23/24 psi, is that not too much for the ko3?? Should I maybe turn down a little?

Thanks!!
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: r5gtt on January 16, 2016, 11:50:37 pm
More air = more fuel = more spark for combustion?.

I see, I am revo stage 2+ and have the ability the tweek the settings with the sps switch. Should I be rich out the fuel more or lean ??? My fuel is on F6 at the minute

Thanks
Now that got me confused as I'm  :stupid: I only typed the above as your old plugs were worn out and fitting the Fmic on is giving extra air hence your plugs fried due to needing a better spark for combusting the fuel hence you're spluttering at a certain rev range/speed. Platinum plugs aren't what people recommend for stage 2 but the Iridium ix plugs are.
regarding how lean or rich to go is not something I can help you with sorry.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 16, 2016, 11:58:15 pm
More air = more fuel = more spark for combustion?.

I see, I am revo stage 2+ and have the ability the tweek the settings with the sps switch. Should I be rich out the fuel more or lean ??? My fuel is on F6 at the minute

Thanks
Now that got me confused as I'm  :stupid: I only typed the above as your old plugs were worn out and fitting the Fmic on is giving extra air hence your plugs fried due to needing a better spark for combusting the fuel hence you're spluttering at a certain rev range/speed. Platinum plugs aren't what people recommend for stage 2 but the Iridium ix plugs are.
regarding how lean or rich to go is not something I can help you with sorry.

It's ok sorry if I confused you. Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on January 17, 2016, 07:51:35 am
How many miles had the old plugs done? What grade are the plugs? old and new.....?

Plugs you want are http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk)

Old plugs probably did about 6k miles, not many at all (they where NKG too)  I just changed to NKG laser platinum.

I noticed as well the car is running on B9 the psi is near 23/24 psi, is that not too much for the ko3?? Should I maybe turn down a little?

Thanks!!

Make sure you have the plugs i linked above

6k isn't a lot, but if it's the plugs then it's the plugs. B9 is a huge torque spike, i run B9 but i have WMI to keep temps and knock under control. What timing do you run and what fuel do you use?

Map sensor will only read 1.5 bar of boost, and B9 requests about 1.4 bar. How are you measuring 24psi? external boost gauge
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: ROH ECHT on January 17, 2016, 08:51:16 am
The K03 may experience some bucking at high boost even though 23psi is reasonable. My K04 bucked some when I was hitting 28psi during a past adjustment period.
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 17, 2016, 01:44:32 pm
How many miles had the old plugs done? What grade are the plugs? old and new.....?

Plugs you want are http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Pack-NEW-GENUINE-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-SPARK-PLUGS-BKR7EIX-Stock-No-2667-Trade-Price-/350592387058?hash=item51a0ef47f2:g:O34AAOSwymxVOLDk)

Old plugs probably did about 6k miles, not many at all (they where NKG too)  I just changed to NKG laser platinum.

I noticed as well the car is running on B9 the psi is near 23/24 psi, is that not too much for the ko3?? Should I maybe turn down a little?

Thanks!!

Make sure you have the plugs i linked above

6k isn't a lot, but if it's the plugs then it's the plugs. B9 is a huge torque spike, i run B9 but i have WMI to keep temps and knock under control. What timing do you run and what fuel do you use?

Map sensor will only read 1.5 bar of boost, and B9 requests about 1.4 bar. How are you measuring 24psi? external boost gauge

Before the fmic the car was boosting around 22psi now with the new fmic the car seems to be boosting around 24psi!!! This does seem extremely high for a ko3. When I spoke to revo they say that on stage 2+ you should really only use boost at B8 or B9.

I was out in the car this morning and the plugs have help but now it seems as though the boost is holding not very well, any ideas??

I think I need to go log today and turn down the boost a bit. The settings at the minute are B9 T4 F6

Thanks again
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: Dan_FR on January 17, 2016, 03:30:35 pm
How are you measuring 24psi? The standard map sensor won't measure 24psi of boost

Revo state that to take full advantage of the '+' mapping, i.e. big boost in the low-mid range as you can now fuel for it

K03 do peak high and tail off. Mine peaks about 1.4-1.5 bar and will tail of to 0.8 bar at the limiter

T4 is quite low if using decent fuel. Run some logs and see if you can safely run any more
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 17, 2016, 06:17:46 pm
How are you measuring 24psi? The standard map sensor won't measure 24psi of boost

Revo state that to take full advantage of the '+' mapping, i.e. big boost in the low-mid range as you can now fuel for it

K03 do peak high and tail off. Mine peaks about 1.4-1.5 bar and will tail of to 0.8 bar at the limiter

T4 is quite low if using decent fuel. Run some logs and see if you can safely run any more

OK, so I logged the car today logging boost (115), timing(020), fuel(230), intake temp and the logs look pretty good but I still got a slight hold back/judder at max boost on Boost B9. Even though the boost logs looks pretty good (no spike). I got no timing pull at all and the fuel pressure and lambda looks good.

I then changed the settings to B7 T5 F6 taking the boost down and I could not repeat the problem (the judder/pull back) I logged the misfire counter too and could see nothing but zeros  (which I presume is good) got a little bit of timing pull but nothing above -3 and the fuel again seemed good.

I am really confused though. The logs seem pretty good but from the EXTERNAL boost gauge the boost does not hold at all like it used to even though the logs say otherwise :surprised:

Surly I should be able to run B9 at stage 2+ ??

What do you think?

Many thanks! :pomppomp:
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on January 22, 2016, 06:51:32 pm
Quick update. Turns out I had an over boost problem due to the new fmic. Replace the n75 valve and has seems to have solved the problem. Car holds boost again and feels much stronger. :driver:
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: r5gtt on January 23, 2016, 12:04:43 am
Glad to hear it  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: jacobrownoly on February 08, 2016, 05:30:34 pm
Good news today, with the car finally sorted and no heatsoak thanks to the new airtec intercooler the car made 277bhp :jumpmove:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMobile_Uploads%2F2016-02%2FBE6977D0-1E43-452A-9F0D-17F1D53762F9.jpg&hash=5729f847141dbcb9071ad80f7faaf4c770260fe2)
Title: Re: Intercooler Time!
Post by: r5gtt on February 08, 2016, 05:33:50 pm
That's a great figure :congrats: