Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 09:52:23 am
wont turn back on. Currently sitting in cafe wondering what to do.
Post by: rich83 on February 27, 2016, 10:00:16 am
Do you have polar FIS? Does that show oil pressure? Can't remember.
Oil pickup?
Post by: dronners on February 27, 2016, 11:36:57 am
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 11:55:17 am
What makes you say that?
Car wont turn on now, just ticks over
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 12:22:45 pm
I mean normally it sounds a bit rattly but no where near what it sounded like today
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 12:30:15 pm
If you have any tools?, try turn the crank over manually with socket and rachet.
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 01:21:55 pm
Post by: dazza on February 27, 2016, 01:27:33 pm
hopefully its something simple.
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 02:16:37 pm
Above in the first post you said quote 》》》 I was coming to a stopthe engine cut out!
wont turn back on!
but now you're saying 》》》 . I then turned the car off and checked the oil level. Oil level was fine. Turned it back on and drove to the paddock and as I was coming to a stop it cut out!
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 02:25:50 pm
Post by: Nasir on February 27, 2016, 02:26:31 pm
I came off the track when I saw the warning. I then turned the car off and checked the oil level. Oil level was fine. Turned it back on and drove to the paddock and as I was coming to a stop it cut out!
Waited for it to cool down, scanned it and got the p0011 cam shaft a code. Tried to turn it on and it was just ticking over, rpm hardly budging, maybe 2-300 rpm. Now in the tow truck :(
Don't try to start it with an oil pressure fault. Not the same car, but my sister's 1.6 FSI kept flashing up with the STOP oil pressure light. Had the oil changed and it's been fine since. That being said, her car had no fault codes.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 02:27:52 pm
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 02:56:22 pm
Yeah sorry I got it wrong, I wasnt thinking properly when typing the first post. My badI'll let you off as it's a very stressful situation :sad1:
hope you haven't done too much damage but my guess is ypu have already done it. :scared:
Post by: callis on February 27, 2016, 03:44:48 pm
then you just need oil and sealent :happy2:
wont be anything else, esp if oil level fine and no oil in your coolant
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 04:33:37 pm
100% blocked oil pick up pipe, Drain oil, take of sump and give it a good clean or replace strainer about £70 from dealers
then you just need oil and sealent :happy2:
wont be anything else, esp if oil level fine and no oil in your coolant
Well that is music to my ears, but what makes you so sure?
Post by: callis on February 27, 2016, 04:41:19 pm
They confirmed it, cleaned, flushed and since then 12 months been fine.
Only issue you have is how far you went and how hard with light on, and also fact it now wont start, that said its a starting point and hopefully the issue
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 04:52:01 pm
True, it is a good starting point fingers crossed
Post by: callis on February 27, 2016, 04:55:45 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 04:58:02 pm
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 05:16:09 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 05:19:46 pm
When I tried turning it back on, it just made a whirring noise and the RPM needle only went to about 300 rpm and refused to kick into life. Could it really happen that quickly? With me driving a total of around 500 yards (including the engine being turned off and on again) from seeing the warning light...
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 05:31:43 pm
Post by: dazza on February 27, 2016, 05:35:25 pm
Post by: rich83 on February 27, 2016, 05:38:09 pm
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 05:38:42 pm
Oil pickup pipe is not to difficult you will need a long ball head allen key as a couple of the bolts are awkward.You tell him dazz :happy2:
The three bolts in between the bell housing will be the awkward ones :signLOL:
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 05:47:46 pm
Is it right that I would just hear single clicks opposed to the whirring if the engine had seized as the starter motor cant do anything at all?
Post by: rich83 on February 27, 2016, 05:50:06 pm
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 05:55:51 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 05:58:02 pm
I wont try to start it again untill ive done the oil. Will it know its "fixed" when everything cleaned and has oil in it and start nornally ?
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 06:03:51 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 06:30:53 pm
Anyone know if there is a way I can check the cam chain hasnt slipped a tooth?
If I can do this I can work on the assumption that it is oil related and set about cleaning oil pick up pipe and sump.
Thanks
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 08:31:52 pm
Im going to follow this guide and clean / inspect it
Post by: Dan_FR on February 27, 2016, 10:00:44 pm
Post by: rich83 on February 27, 2016, 10:06:24 pm
http://blog.micksgarage.com/golf-gti-oil-strainer-cleaning/
Im going to follow this guide and clean / inspect it
Youll need the 5mm hex which is 100mm long. If you dont have that you'll struggle and break something
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/260791428101?adgroupid=13936810266&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=pla-144478436466&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&ff19=0&googleloc=1006786&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=220881786&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80
If i wasnt away next week I would offer to come and help.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 10:36:37 pm
Having just read this from the beginning........Prepare for a new engine :sad1:
Do you not think its the oil pick up pipe? It looks like its not seized...
http://blog.micksgarage.com/golf-gti-oil-strainer-cleaning/
Im going to follow this guide and clean / inspect it
Youll need the 5mm hex which is 100mm long. If you dont have that you'll struggle and break something
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/260791428101?adgroupid=13936810266&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=pla-144478436466&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&ff19=0&googleloc=1006786&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=220881786&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80
If i wasnt away next week I would offer to come and help.
Thabks rich thats very kind of you. I think I have one as parr of my halfords allen key, they all have a ball end, but I bet theres no 5mm!
Post by: Dan_FR on February 27, 2016, 10:44:38 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 10:49:51 pm
Damage is done very quickly, sometime even before the oil pressure light illuminates.... the cutting out part and not starting again sounds pretty terminal
True, but It is trying to start, I thought the ecu may be telling it not to because it wasnt getting the oil?
Please correct me if.im wrong in.thinking this is the case!
Post by: Chris92 on February 27, 2016, 11:01:31 pm
If you lasted tried it on the track it maybes because the engine had nipped up with the heat (metal expanding) and no oil, so if you tried when it had cooled down it might start up. My mates clio used to just stop at junctions etc and in the end it because it had basically no oil in and the engine was nipping up tight, fresh oil in and still runs to this day.
Id guess the pick up pipe as well, I've had two 2.0 tfsi's and changing the pipe up was one of my first jobs I did after hearing the stories, both were very clean but it gives me peace of mind.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 11:20:03 pm
I'm praying it is the oil pick up pipe, I will be carless for quite a while if not :scared:
Post by: r5gtt on February 27, 2016, 11:40:41 pm
Just chance it and replace the pick up pipe and all fingers” crossed here for you mate :happy2:
Thanks
R5
Post by: Pesky jones on February 27, 2016, 11:57:34 pm
But yeah, I'm going to replace the oil pick up and clean it out tomorrow, and if that doesn't work, take it to a garage for inspection.
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 12:08:51 am
Unfortunately yours did cut out hence others are pointing you towards a possible new engine :sad1:
That's what happened to me but I carried on driving knowing what would happen but I had to get off the motorway and I was a lot younger and thought feckle it I'll get another engine but don't wanna be stuck on the motorway which fair enough it got me another five miles knocking the he'll out of the bottom end and finally seized dead and tick tick when Mr AA man came saying it was the head that was knackered thinking I was a dumb guy. I went and bought a complete engine for £120 off the scrap yard Luckily it was only a 1.9 gti and parts were cheap then.
Hopefully you'll escape the stress and be able to get the car running as nice as it was before this incident :smiley:
Have a read 》》》
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=36395.0
R5
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 09:56:35 am
If I take the sump off today to clean, would it be ok to leave it off untill next weekend when I can get some sealant and a filter and then put it back then?
Or should I put the sump back on, without sealant and only do a couple of bolts just to hold it up?
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 10:17:46 am
NO NO NO :surprised: please knock it back up with a few bolts so it doesn't get contaminated with dust dirt particals and again cause issues.
R5
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 10:33:47 am
Is it alright to leave it on axle stands on the semi circle wishbone mount type things for a week?
Plan today is get the sump off and get everything clean, then.next weekend reattach sump and.cleaned pick up pipe and re oil and then try turning it over then.
Post by: dazza on February 28, 2016, 10:45:52 am
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 10:52:27 am
Thanks,
Is it alright to leave it on axle stands on the semi circle wishbone mount type things for a week?
YES you can leave it on axle stands at the location you mentioned :happy2:
Plan today is get the sump off and get everything clean, then.next weekend reattach sump and.cleaned pick up pipe and re oil and then try turning it over then.
Again that's fine and I'm here hoping next weekend puts a fat juicy :grin: upon your face when everything goes well and the car starts and purs at you once again :smiley:
R5
Post by: Reesy23 on February 28, 2016, 10:55:21 am
Drove 15 miles to my work the next day and had the sump and pickup off and cleaned out and did the follower at the same time. Pickup wasn't as bad as I've seen them, but managed to get it like new and sump had a layer of sludge in the bottom which wasn't pleasant either. Looks like it's just luck whether you get away with it
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 11:36:41 am
Do a few test fits of the sump prior to applying the sealant. So when you do come to put it back on with sealant you don't touch anything.
Will do mate, did you struggle to undo the two awkard bolts or where they reasonable?
Thanks,
Is it alright to leave it on axle stands on the semi circle wishbone mount type things for a week?
YES you can leave it on axle stands at the location you mentioned :happy2:
Plan today is get the sump off and get everything clean, then.next weekend reattach sump and.cleaned pick up pipe and re oil and then try turning it over then.
Again that's fine and I'm here hoping next weekend puts a fat juicy :grin: upon your face when everything goes well and the car starts and purs at you once again :smiley:
R5
You and me both mate!
@Reesy23 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=15090) yeah sounds like you were lucky!
Post by: dazza on February 28, 2016, 12:29:22 pm
No mate i bought this to get the awkward bolts out.
Will do mate, did you struggle to undo the two awkard bolts or where they reasonable?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2F20160228_132513_resized.jpg&hash=54ef745b988d783eda3aa1c2798a8c24bac575a8)
Post by: Nasir on February 28, 2016, 01:12:53 pm
Has the car been on long life or time and distance servicing?
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 01:18:58 pm
Ive bought some allen keys with a ball head on it and its quite long, probably 130mm long. Should be ok
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 01:44:31 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160228_132037_zpsufilno2z.jpg&hash=ad579f87a4ee6fe97bb1903936c5363468738845)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160228_132054_zpswdspbmka.jpg&hash=931a59501892c468effdba6f6f1fb5f8c18e8694)
Could just be from where it was last changed but I doubt it. Oh well
The bleed nut is very tight!!
Post by: Chris92 on February 28, 2016, 02:52:42 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on February 28, 2016, 03:20:00 pm
The oil pressure warning will not stop the engine from starting. If it's failing to start after it cutting out - prepare for the worst
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 03:53:02 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 06:36:40 pm
Have taken off sump and pick up pipe. The pick up pipe gauze doesnt actually look to blocked to me, but it may be.
I need to hand crank the crankshaft to see if the engine has seized. If the pick up pipe isnt blocked enough to starve the engine, im thinking it nay be one of the cams has skipped a tooth on the chain or something. Heres pics if the pick up pipe
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160228_174053_zpsrlli1pbn.jpg&hash=0d7879d7cf1e5e9487e81c02d5c2b53c4cb99813)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160228_174115_zpshkck6psn.jpg&hash=fa43d962c7f668ca6d7d0c33c62cf66f57f590f1)
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 07:42:16 pm
I think it's a 19mm spline socket to crank nut and try turn the engine.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 08:01:40 pm
Do you know where this crank nut is located?
Post by: doylebros on February 28, 2016, 08:12:48 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 09:03:21 pm
Post by: SiofChester on February 28, 2016, 09:10:57 pm
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: doylebros on February 28, 2016, 09:12:30 pm
When you remove the oil strainer wash it in petrol and see how much crap is in it.
If you do manage to turn the engine leave it at TDC on the Tbelt end so you can check the chain end.
If it is plugged look second hand cause that will be expensive to diy your engine.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 09:38:58 pm
How do I get to see the timng belt and how do I know it is tdc?
And then to check the chain end do I need to remove the cam cover?
Post by: doylebros on February 28, 2016, 09:54:45 pm
Both the above require quite a few special tools and aren't top of my list for on the drive outside jobs.
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 10:17:00 pm
Get a long screw driver or something to put in No1 plug hole once plug is removed then turn the crank a good few times and you'll see the driver bob up and down. You want to get it at rocking so is going up and down when turning the crank nut back and forth. it should be rocking doing this. Hope you understand what I mean?.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 10:48:30 pm
@r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) I followed up until the point where you talk about getting it rocking... And is that a sure way of checking the timing?
If I can turn the engine at the crankshaft nut (not sure I have a 19mm 12pt socket, will a normal 19mm socket do this?) then does that mean the timing is correct, but the chain may have jumped a tooth or two?
I think at the end of the day, I'll just have to clean the pick up pipe (don't need to replace if clean?) put sump back on and re fill with oil and see if it somehow magically starts. To do this ill just need sump sealant, and new oil, right? No other new bits?
If this fails to work (which is looking likely) then it'll be new engine time? Even if the engine does turn at crankshaft nut. Anyone got an idea of cost of second hand engine, labour of fitting and towing to a garage?
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 10:57:34 pm
@doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) blimey, all that just to check if timing is correct!? :scared: I'm going to put my hands up now and say I'm not confident with that guide in the link.Yes it's 100% sure proof as ive had to do that a good few times and you can't get it wrong tbh.
@r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) I followed up until the point where you talk about getting it rocking... And is that a sure way of checking the timing?
If I can turn the engine at the crankshaft nut (not sure I have a 19mm 12pt socket, will a normal 19mm socket do this?) then does that mean the timing is correct, but the chain may have jumped a tooth or two?
I think at the end of the day, I'll just have to clean the pick up pipe (don't need to replace if clean?) put sump back on and re fill with oil and see if it somehow magically starts. To do this ill just need sump sealant, and new oil, right? No other new bits?
If this fails to work (which is looking likely) then it'll be new engine time? Even if the engine does turn at crankshaft nut. Anyone got an idea of cost of second hand engine, labour of fitting and towing to a garage?
You won't be able to git the hex socket on bud no way.
It has to be the one specified 3/4 socket multi spline if you have one or you'll have to take a trip down to halfauds and pick up one. I'd borrow you mine but you're just way to far out for me as it'll take me forever to a day to get to you from central London and with congestion charged to shaft me I think. don't even have the time as I wake up at six am out for 7 and back for 7ish 8pm :sad1: proper long week days. last Friday I get home at 840 pm from lakeside as they closed off Dartford bridge and caused tails backs for miles and cars moving one space every 20 to 30mintues as I was in that traffic both at 230pm and 6pm.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 28, 2016, 11:07:46 pm
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 11:09:51 pm
Post by: dazza on February 28, 2016, 11:14:11 pm
You don't need to remove the lower pulley to check TDC.
Cant you turn it to TDC using the nut on the cam shaft pulley?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2F20150520_173438_resized.jpg&hash=901b74212f464f26797d662b8f897843fb7bf637)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FTiming_Belt%2FTiming_Belt_P2%2FP5.jpg&hash=3a9dfa8e0064342a5a33dfb0e2df1565f0f6e2dc)
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 11:17:28 pm
it's easiest the plug way as too much crap to remove any other way.
Post by: dazza on February 28, 2016, 11:37:20 pm
NO NO NO :surprised: :scared: You never turn it from the cam sprocket ffs you could snap the bolt although I've seen some idiot turn it from there once.:ashamed: Wait for the correct tools, don't want to make a bad situation worse.
it's easiest the plug way as too much crap to remove any other way.
Don't listen to me i'm a ….
(https://45.media.tumblr.com/62502758b0780ead65e119f56b27f0e6/tumblr_ndpxwwn9aR1qedb29o2_400.gif)
Post by: r5gtt on February 28, 2016, 11:43:48 pm
Seriously I wouldn't advise anyone to turn it from there.. we all need to learn some where and on here is the best place as there a very knowledgeable members who've had the experience of what to do and what NOT to do :happy2:
I've watched many of his movies :happy2:
Post by: pudding on February 29, 2016, 12:14:01 pm
All you can do is fire it up again with fresh oil and your cleaned out pipe and see what happens, but at least the bottom end will be OK. Might just need some new bits in the cylinder head.
Post by: r5gtt on February 29, 2016, 12:18:19 pm
Post by: pudding on February 29, 2016, 12:27:55 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 29, 2016, 12:29:41 pm
If it doesnt start ill tow it to a garage for inspection.
Thanks guys, apologise for my naivety.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 29, 2016, 12:30:24 pm
Post by: Greenman on February 29, 2016, 02:42:22 pm
Hope you get it sorted and it doesn't hurt your wallet too much.
Cars eh!
Post by: Pesky jones on February 29, 2016, 04:16:25 pm
Im going to refit the sump and then try to turn the engine at the crankshaft nut.
If it does turn, this means that damage is top end? My thoughts are that if they cam chain had slipped or split completely, then surely it either would have gone bang, and stopped running straight away? And if it had only slipped a little, why did it keep running, and then start again after being off only to cut out again shortly afterwards?
Post by: Markis236 on February 29, 2016, 04:33:40 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on February 29, 2016, 04:56:19 pm
Post by: rich83 on February 29, 2016, 05:06:32 pm
Post by: Sequence on February 29, 2016, 05:36:59 pm
Compression test sounds like it needs some specific tools, is that a garage job? Well if turn the crankshaft and there is resistance, and it doesnt turn really easily, won't thst tell me there is compression or is it a really specific compression I won't be able to detect by hand?
There would be resistance when turning the crank thats defiantly a good place to start, though i would suggest getting it to a garage at this point could save you further headaches. Either way i hope you can get up and running again soon.
Post by: flashp on February 29, 2016, 06:22:40 pm
Other than that, I'd have to say my preference would be to pay a trusted garage. For me there'd be too much at stake if I went the DIY route, there's no substitute for experience.
However you proceed, good luck! :happy2:
Post by: r5gtt on February 29, 2016, 07:28:09 pm
@pudding I think the doh :stupid: was referring to me :ashamed:Sorry but yes it was :stupid: if you don't do these checks and take it to a garage who cab turn around and say your engine us buggered when it may not be. I just don't want you to get ripped off mate. that's all :sad1:
Post by: doylebros on February 29, 2016, 07:52:08 pm
So. Picked up oil and sealant today. Ive seen that some get the o ring for the pick up pipe, do I need a new one? Obviously no car makes it very difficult to get to a dealer :(The original oring will be ok to do what your thinking.
Im going to refit the sump and then try to turn the engine at the crankshaft nut.
If it does turn, this means that damage is top end? My thoughts are that if they cam chain had slipped or split completely, then surely it either would have gone bang, and stopped running straight away? And if it had only slipped a little, why did it keep running, and then start again after being off only to cut out again shortly afterwards?
Don't worry about anything until you see the outcome of the cleaning the pickup pipe and hand turn of the engine has turned out.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 29, 2016, 08:44:25 pm
@r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) yeah I appreciate it mate. The indy i will take it to is quite reputable and have helped me out the in past, they are very knowledgeable and helpfull
Post by: r5gtt on February 29, 2016, 09:11:16 pm
Will do @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153), im just getting ahead of myself. Once ive done the pick up pipe and hand turned the engine etc shall I try start it just incase it works?@Peskyjones (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11854) just trying to keep your costs down :grin:
@r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) yeah I appreciate it mate. The indy i will take it to is quite reputable and have helped me out the in past, they are very knowledgeable and helpfull
Post by: doylebros on February 29, 2016, 09:14:46 pm
If it does do two full turns with a ratchet and socket from the crank bolt then try starting it. If it runs switch it off and check the sump for oil leaks and report your findings.
Post by: Pesky jones on February 29, 2016, 10:02:10 pm
@doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) thanks, sounds like good advice!
Post by: Pesky jones on February 29, 2016, 10:19:40 pm
Also as a side note, the car is in my girlfriends garage, and as im walking ( :fighting:) home past one of her neighbours, theyve just bought a lovely condition steel grey five door (like mine) and I have to look at it every time :sick: :sad1:
Post by: r5gtt on February 29, 2016, 11:41:34 pm
hurry up and get it back together bud :popcornsoda:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 08:29:28 am
When I had the ignition partially turned on to scan with VCDS, I heard a humming start for a while, I know its a long shot, but that's not the oil pump trying to take oil round again is it? Be excellent if it was because then it might start with fresh oil.
Post by: pudding on March 01, 2016, 09:00:54 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 09:12:10 am
Nah the oil pump is mechanical mate. Only runs when the engine is.
Thought it might be. Oh well
I know I’ll find out Saturday, but its playing on my mind. If the issue was the pick up pipe, and the pipe is now clear, is it even possible that the engine wasn’t starting because the lack of oil, and that when I try to start the engine, it will suck oil up after a 5 seconds or so and start? I know @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) doesn't think so, and I can see where he's coming from, the start up isn't bothered whether theres low oil or not, it will start regardless, so the reason its not starting is most likely damage of some sort. Just wondering what type of damage would cause it to not start??
Sorry for repeating and going over things already discussed, but I will shut up about it now until Saturday.
Thanks
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 09:53:39 am
http://www.passatworld.com/forums/volkswagen-passat-b5-discussion/320649-car-wont-start-code-p0011.html (http://www.passatworld.com/forums/volkswagen-passat-b5-discussion/320649-car-wont-start-code-p0011.html)
Post by: andy1979uk on March 01, 2016, 10:44:57 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 04:35:36 pm
Post by: pudding on March 01, 2016, 04:45:12 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 05:34:36 pm
My dads mate is apparently a big petrol head has said he'll come look at it Saturday. Hes asked me to leave sump off so he can look at the "big ends "?
Im going to go with @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) suggestion of removing the valve cover and also the cam cover before he comes so we can look at valves under hand turning the crank. Hopefully see.if theres any damage to the cam chain.
Tonight im going to hand turn the crankshaft and if I have time remove the valve cover. Is it ok to turn the crankshaft with the sump empty? I wont leave the valve cover off when im done. Once again ill put a couple bolts back in to stop contamination.
Is it worth me doing all this?
Post by: r5gtt on March 01, 2016, 06:59:25 pm
that should have been done before you dropped the sump :sad1:
Post by: Markis236 on March 01, 2016, 07:26:42 pm
No you can't turn it with no oil in the sump DON'T DO IT.
that should have been done before you dropped the sump :sad1:
I don't see any issue with turning the crank with no oil in the sump as long as it's by hand there will still be a film of oil on all moving parts :signLOL:
Post by: doylebros on March 01, 2016, 08:28:33 pm
You need to turn the engine clockwise when looking at the crank nut - two full turns is needed so the camshaft has done one full revolution as a minimum.
Now it turned over and showed the characteristic of a healthy engine so that's looking very favourable.
Sleep easy and wait till your dads mate turns up - if he doesn't turn up go back to filling it with oil and trying to start it with the fuel pump disconnected(fuse removed) then watch to see if the dash red oil light goes out.
Then report back your findings.
Post by: StuF on March 01, 2016, 08:38:04 pm
Any metal particles in it or lumps? Often hard to see really fine metal if there is any
How about the oil filter - was it clear?
It turning over by hand looks encouraging though so you may be in luck
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 08:46:54 pm
I havnt had a proper look at the oil yet but the pickup pipe just looked a bit clogged with black sludge.
@doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) start it without the fuel pump? So I dont need to take the fuel pump out, just the fuse? May I ask why? Also there is no oil light on the dash at the moment, but there may be when I turn it on I guess.
Post by: doylebros on March 01, 2016, 09:00:37 pm
If he's a no show then you'll have to be guided but let's wait and see if he turns up.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 09:18:07 pm
So should I not worry about the occasional clunk and the air escaping? It may be my mind but it did seem easier clockwise the whole way round then anti clockwise. Sorry for all the questions, I really apreciate the help
Post by: doylebros on March 01, 2016, 09:27:21 pm
Other than the single click in the video the video showed great promise - the air escaping noise is typical on the compression stroke - two full turns of the crank nut is needed.
Now engines with bent valves and snaped valve guides etc turn over as well but it's more promising than a seized engine.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 09:35:18 pm
When turning clockwise on the first rotation I did hear maybe two clicks that were slightly louder. So does bent valves or valve guides mean new head and not new engine? Could the rods be bent?
Post by: doylebros on March 01, 2016, 09:41:43 pm
Do your sums on an exchange engine from a breakers yard and you'll have your ball park figure.
Post by: r5gtt on March 01, 2016, 09:45:09 pm
As doylebros said, that's the compression stroke.
If the rods were bent you'd get no turning of the engine at all :happy2:
If valves are bent then all you'll need are cylinder head gasket, valves, guides and seals. Maybe a timing kit and water pump would be good at this point of you've not done so already. sorry so many posts I forget who's done what to their cars :stupid:
Happy to see its not the bottom end goosed :smiley: :smiley:
Post by: Chris92 on March 01, 2016, 10:12:20 pm
Valves won't be bent if there's compression
Engines can still turn over with bent conrods.
Post by: r5gtt on March 01, 2016, 10:50:12 pm
If the rods were quite bad then I'd say it wouldn't as I recall ad having bent rods in an engine I bought second hand in my youth not realising the fecker conned me out of £60 at the time lol not big money but still hard earned money. Not evidence of engine knock was mentioned by Pesky so lets wat for his dad's mates opinion on this.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 11:27:09 pm
. Not evidence of engine knock was mentioned by Pesky so lets wat for his dad's mates opinion on this.
What do you mean by this @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) ?
Well as said its not best practice and I won't be doing it again.
Post by: r5gtt on March 01, 2016, 11:36:45 pm
@Peskyjones (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11854) what I meant was you didn't say the engine was knocking?. clatter clatter type.. Not evidence of engine knock was mentioned by Pesky so lets wat for his dad's mates opinion on this.
What do you mean by this @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) ?
Well as said its not best practice and I won't be doing it again.
Post by: Chris92 on March 01, 2016, 11:39:39 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 01, 2016, 11:41:59 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 02, 2016, 06:58:39 am
A few turns will do no damage at all and there will still be oil on all the important internals anyways, it's no different to turning it by hand than it is via starter motor. Only different is your not turning it over fast enough for it to start.I agree :smiley:
Erm yeah it used to sound diesely before and then even more when I was.coming off the track before the engine cut out, is that what you were referring to?Not sounding good pesky, could you tell whether the noise was from top or bottom?. Was it a metallic noise more than deisely?.
I'm wondering is if your hpfp tappet has anything to do with this?.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 02, 2016, 08:32:20 am
A few turns will do no damage at all and there will still be oil on all the important internals anyways, it's no different to turning it by hand than it is via starter motor. Only different is your not turning it over fast enough for it to start.I agree :smiley:Erm yeah it used to sound diesely before and then even more when I was.coming off the track before the engine cut out, is that what you were referring to?Not sounding good pesky, could you tell whether the noise was from top or bottom?. Was it a metallic noise more than deisely?.
I'm wondering is if your hpfp tappet has anything to do with this?.
Top, I don't know if you've seen or heard this before, but our engines can have problems with stretched cam chains, tensioner, adjustor etc. Some people replaced (like dazza did). Mine started to show symptons (getting more rattly when warm) but it wasn't as bad as some of the other cars I had heard. However, after I pulled off the track - the rattle was much much louder then ususal.
So I personally think the cam chain may have slipped when I was pulling to a stop. However, thinking about it why would it have sounded so much more rattly as soon as I was pulling off the track after getting the message?http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16395/P0011/000017 (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16395/P0011/000017) This is the ross tech code - it shows possible causes could be mechanical timing chain/belt or the N205 adjustment valve.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 02, 2016, 12:13:49 pm
I said I’d check the oil pump tonight before he comes round Saturday, is it possible for me to do so? He said check through the oil for bits of metal etc. Its in a bucket at the moment, whats the best way of doing this?! Magnets?
Also, on this post here about half way down someone says that a crank sensor/ wiring issue can cause the pressure light to come on and cause the engine to cut out?
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=251930.0 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=251930.0)
At the time I thought the oil pressure turn engine off message would be like the low petrol light, where it comes and goes intermittently (which the oil pressure message was doing to me!) could it just be a sensor??
Post by: Dan_FR on March 02, 2016, 01:51:38 pm
As for checking the oil, magnet could work, or buy a cheap strainer/sieve and poor the oil through it - your looking for chunks/teeth from cogs etc. Oil pump failure looks likely given that your strainer was far from blocked. A full inspection will reveal all, how much you can inspect it without full removal I don't know as I've never removed one on a TFSI
Even if it is oil pump failure, the big question is whether the engine has survived. Used oil pumps are a few hundred quid, new ones as obscene money from VW
Post by: Pesky jones on March 02, 2016, 02:03:34 pm
Crank sensor is easily ruled out if the RPM needle moves when cranking, or you see an RPM signal through VCDS. It also wouldn't be accompanied by the rough sounding engine noises that would be caused by low oil pressure
As for checking the oil, magnet could work, or buy a cheap strainer/sieve and poor the oil through it - your looking for chunks/teeth from cogs etc. Oil pump failure looks likely given that your strainer was far from blocked. A full inspection will reveal all, how much you can inspect it without full removal I don't know as I've never removed one on a TFSI
Even if it is oil pump failure, the big question is whether the engine has survived. Used oil pumps are a few hundred quid, new ones as obscene money from VW
Thanks for clearing that up @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) , I will sieve it through. If there is no metal, chunks etc then I will proceed this weekend to refit sump, remove HPFP fuse (need to find out which one) and then turn the ignition as @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) has advised. What am I expecting at this point? The "oil pressure turn engine off" was intermittent so it might not even come up on the dash anyway for me to observe it turning off if you know what I mean? Do I just keep the cranking going for a little bit and then reinsert the HPFP fuse and try to start the engine? Can oil pressure be observed through VCDS without the engine running?
Post by: Dan_FR on March 02, 2016, 02:46:08 pm
Thanks for clearing that up @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) , I will sieve it through. If there is no metal, chunks etc then I will proceed this weekend to refit sump, remove HPFP fuse (need to find out which one) and then turn the ignition as @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) has advised. What am I expecting at this point? The "oil pressure turn engine off" was intermittent so it might not even come up on the dash anyway for me to observe it turning off if you know what I mean? Do I just keep the cranking going for a little bit and then reinsert the HPFP fuse and try to start the engine? Can oil pressure be observed through VCDS without the engine running?
Checking the oil is not a guarantee that there is no damage to the oil pump, teeth could be stripped, cogs snapped/detached etc. It needs to be checked and the cause of your low oil pressure found before trying to start it again
If the car fails to start, you will get the oil pressure warning light, caused from continued low oil pressure without the engine running
Even if the oil light goes out, all that means is that the oil pressure is enough to turn the light out (which is a really low amount, switch is something like 0.8 or 1.1bar, not the 5bar plus that you will see when driving.)
Oil pressure cannot be measured on the Mk5 AFAIK, certainly can't on my Leon, but then it is a poor person cars and doesn't even have a washer fluid level sensor, or the oil level sensor etc.
Seriously do not just try and start it without determining the cause first
Post by: grey golfster on March 02, 2016, 02:48:56 pm
A few turns will do no damage at all and there will still be oil on all the important internals anyways, it's no different to turning it by hand than it is via starter motor. Only different is your not turning it over fast enough for it to start.
[/quxote]
Not quite true...
By hand, almost no possibility of causing additional damage (assuming you don't use a big breaker bar, torque multiplier or similar - I've seen it done!).
By starter motor you add a mechanical gearing effect, and some degree of momentum from the running gear/flywheel etc, as well as compression gas loadings, even if the ignition/fuel pump are isolated so as to prevent firing. So must be greater risk of more damage?
And if turning over/running at tickover, then all of the above plus firing gas loads too.
Go slow n steady, one step at a time, it's not a big engine after all, not that hard to turn over by hand...
Take the plugs out.
Ladies tights make an excellent impro filter/strainer, and will catch all debris if you pour your oil thru them. Get your lady to take them off first tho :grin:
Ps I'm not a car mechanic, but am a mechanical engineer and have seen some spectacular engine damages over the years.
I really wouldn't risk a start without a very good look at the internals!
Post by: Pesky jones on March 02, 2016, 03:36:55 pm
Post by: andy1979uk on March 02, 2016, 05:49:31 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 02, 2016, 06:49:07 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 02, 2016, 10:42:44 pm
I've just got it in my head that I don't want to write the engine off and start looking for a new engine if the problem was actually simple. If I can't see any evidence of metal in the engine oil or pump, then surely it's worth a try, if there is metal in there then the engine is already shot :signLOL:
Post by: r5gtt on March 02, 2016, 10:48:20 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 02, 2016, 11:20:12 pm
Pesky dude have you removed the rocker cover and checked the hydraulic tensioner for the chain?. easy enough to do.
No, what tensioner sorry? Valve cover?
Post by: dazza on March 03, 2016, 12:24:51 am
Pesky dude have you removed the rocker cover and checked the hydraulic tensioner for the chain?. easy enough to do.
The cam chain housing is separate from the rocker cover. I removed the rocker cover first but it may be possible just to remove the cam chain housing?
Post by: r5gtt on March 03, 2016, 06:55:44 am
Thanks for the explanation dazza.l :happy2:Pesky dude have you removed the rocker cover and checked the hydraulic tensioner for the chain?. easy enough to do.
The cam chain housing is separate from the rocker cover. I removed the rocker cover first but it may be possible just to remove the cam chain housing?
Pesky you're always talking about the chain being stretched right?, here it is on this video mate. You'll see the tensioner in the centre.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 03, 2016, 07:57:46 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 03, 2016, 10:38:33 am
1) Inspect crankshaft for wear, inspect oil pump in situ (if I can access it), observe valves, remove cam cover and inspect chain and tensioner. Hopefully find some type of definitive reason for engine cutting out/not turning on and go from there
2) Tow it to a trusted garage forty minutes away and have them inspect it fair bit of cost for towing and inspection but then ill have an answer.
3) Cut my losses now and realise that I need a new engine
Thanks
Post by: Pesky jones on March 03, 2016, 12:30:12 pm
Can I get the engine to what should be TDC from the crankshaft or if I expose the camshaft ends at the cam chain end, can I do it from there?
Post by: r5gtt on March 03, 2016, 01:12:42 pm
There are also notches on the chain but I guess you won't know what to look for when timing them up.
Good luck :smiley:
Post by: dazza on March 03, 2016, 01:25:19 pm
You turn the crank to get it to TDC.
I think you have the old style cam belt cover with the window so remove the window.
Find the indent in the black metal plate behind the crank pulley add some tipex to it and the indent in the pulley like pic below.
Turn the crank until they line up.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2F20150520_173438_resized.jpg&hash=901b74212f464f26797d662b8f897843fb7bf637)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FTiming_Belt%2FTiming_Belt_P2%2FP5.jpg&hash=3a9dfa8e0064342a5a33dfb0e2df1565f0f6e2dc)
Post by: Pesky jones on March 04, 2016, 09:18:19 am
My plan tonight is to rotate the crankshaft to TDC using marks. Remove cambelt cover, check if it is now at TDC by checking notches on cambelt pulley line up. Remove valve cover. Remove cam cover. Are there any timing indications at this end of the head? and finally fit locking tool to ensure that timing is correct. Check cam chain for play, damage, wear etc.
Tomorrow morning when marius is with me im going to remove the oil pump cover (I think this is just some tabs I need to press in to remove) to check the sprockets and chain, and at the other end check the balance shafts. if anyone has any advice on this it would be much appreciated! In the Haynes manual it says you can strip it back in situ, although im not sure how far I can go before I have to replace the bolts (apparently 600£?!)
Also I have a boroscope from work so Ill see if that comes in handy.
Post by: pudding on March 04, 2016, 10:24:38 am
Can you not see the conrods from the bottom without taking the oil pump / balancer / girdle plate thingy off? If you can, look for discolouration. An overheated big end bearing would make the rod turn a bluish colour. If they all look the same colour (brown from oil staining or gunmetal), move on.
What I would do is carry on as you are checking the timing and if it's good, just start it mate and see what happens. What was the VCDS error again? "Cam / crank correlation - set point not reached" by any chance? That would definitely indicate a chain related issue.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 04, 2016, 10:49:50 am
Just been skim reading the past couple of pages and things sound OK to me. You're getting a squish sound every 2 crank turns (suck, squeeze, bang, blow - 4 stroke engine), which is compression. I did say remove the spark plugs if you want the engine to turn over easier, but the squishing confirms you've not got any bent valves and the fact it is turning over means it's not seized either :happy2:
Can you not see the conrods from the bottom without taking the oil pump / balancer / girdle plate thingy off? If you can, look for discolouration. An overheated big end bearing would make the rod turn a bluish colour. If they all look the same colour (brown from oil staining or gunmetal), move on.
What I would do is carry on as you are checking the timing and if it's good, just start it mate and see what happens. What was the VCDS error again? "Cam / crank correlation - set point not reached" by any chance? That would definitely indicate a chain related issue.
Thanks @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) I think I will do. The error was P0011 - "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)
I think I have to remove a few bolts on the cover above the sump, and the crankshaft will be revealed. I'm not sure this is removing the oil pump, but im not clear on it. I'll check the conrods if i can and bearings for colouring and wear as you have said.
Post by: dazza on March 04, 2016, 11:51:21 am
How hard is to remove the cam belt upper cover Daz?
Should be one plastic screw flip it to open then pop it off. (if you have the old style cover).
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fzachlangan%2FTiming_Belt%2FDSC00099.jpg&hash=1a5250b26940be65804697f219ccd2f4c7a14d72)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fzachlangan%2FTiming_Belt%2FDSC00126.jpg&hash=ff74b695d4bff38801019dc1939b03bce1b7b246)
Post by: Pesky jones on March 04, 2016, 01:59:28 pm
Quick question - is the cam chain tensioner hydraulic or is it on a spring? My prediction is that when I take the cam cover off my tensioners going to have failed. Hence why im asking about how it does its job - if its hydraulic then could the lack of oil pressure potentially caused it to fail?
Post by: pudding on March 04, 2016, 02:05:19 pm
Two things usually happen with hydraulic tensioners, 1 - they run out of travel because the chain is worn out or 2 - they leak internally, which causes a pressure drop.
Tensioners with plastic pads can also wear down (the plastic bit) which also reduces it's tensioning travel.
Post by: ady-gti on March 04, 2016, 02:09:19 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 04, 2016, 02:10:36 pm
It's hydraulic mate. It probably has a pre-load spring in it as well to help keep things taught during assembly, so the chain is unlikely to be loose and sloppy as you're expecting.
Two things usually happen with hydraulic tensioners, 1 - they run out of travel because the chain is worn out or 2 - they leak internally, which causes a pressure drop.
Tensioners with plastic pads can also wear down (the plastic bit) which also reduces it's tensioning travel.
Oh, so me hoping to see tensioner failed will not tell me that the oil pump hasn't failed isn't going to happen? It could still be the oil pump.
I'll go ahead anyway and see what I find with the timing.
Post by: pudding on March 04, 2016, 02:31:06 pm
The tensioner / chain wear is a common issue on this engine so it's more than likely that mate.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 04, 2016, 02:43:10 pm
If the pick up pipe wouldn't stop the engine, then I still have the question what caused it to cut out, and why isn't it starting now. If them tensioner has failed, then this might cause the engine to stop and not start again, correct? I however don't want to replace the chain tensioner etc without knowing for sure... its difficult.
Post by: pudding on March 04, 2016, 03:10:00 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 04, 2016, 03:17:35 pm
I know on the TSI engine if the chain wears out to a certain point, the engine won't start at all. Probably because the ECU can't figure out where the cam is in relation to the crank anymore. I wonder if that's true of the TFSI?
Makes sense... sounds weird but hopefully! fingers crossed it could just be a new cam chain, adjustor, tensioner and the associated gaskets, bolts etc...
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) You seem pretty clued up on tfsi engines and what does and doesnt cause them to cut out etc what do you think?
Post by: Roadrebel on March 04, 2016, 06:14:48 pm
You can easily check this by removing the camshaft cover and turning the engine with a spanner to see if both camshafts turn.
If the oil strainer was blocked it would not stop the engine from starting again unless there is more serious damage.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 04, 2016, 10:44:13 pm
Also started to disconnect the fuel pump and left it at the banjo bolt gunna try tomorrow. If youre looking at it from beneath it undoes anti clockwise right?
Post by: r5gtt on March 04, 2016, 11:48:41 pm
Yes the banjo unbolts anti clock wise.
Post by: Dan_FR on March 05, 2016, 07:36:53 am
I know on the TSI engine if the chain wears out to a certain point, the engine won't start at all. Probably because the ECU can't figure out where the cam is in relation to the crank anymore. I wonder if that's true of the TFSI?
Makes sense... sounds weird but hopefully! fingers crossed it could just be a new cam chain, adjustor, tensioner and the associated gaskets, bolts etc...
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) You seem pretty clued up on tfsi engines and what does and doesnt cause them to cut out etc what do you think?
As has been said, oil pressure warning will not stop it from starting. Since the oil light appeared first I suspect the problem still lies here and with the oil pump. The timing fault could well be the tensioner not doing its job due to lack of oil pressure.
If you plan to start the car without checking the pump, then get a mechanical gauge plumbed in to check for pressure without relying on the warning light.
Removing cam cover and checking both cams are turning is a must. Hopefully the timing correlation will go with oil pressure.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 05, 2016, 11:48:19 am
The oil pump balance shafts have no play and the chain and sprockets on the outside look in good.condition. However I cant check the internals.
I think its probably just going to have to go to a garage, and let them find out whether it needs a new head, or if its the oil pump etc and needa a new engine. Not good. :sad1: to top it off dropped my.phone and cracked the screen 4 months into a 24 month contract. Exactlt the same time I did to my.last phone 24 months ago
Bottom.line for me is new.engine. even if I replace the head then there might be problems with turbo and other parts etc. Going to start looking when I have the cash
Post by: Pesky jones on March 06, 2016, 10:36:53 am
Post by: Andy on March 06, 2016, 11:23:35 am
Post by: doylebros on March 06, 2016, 11:54:39 am
Just for peace of my mind can I get some opinions. Take it to garage for inspection or look for new engine to take to the garage and just tell them to swap the enginesIf you can do without your vehicle then you could explore various avenues but if you need it ASAP then check with the tuners if they've got anything for sale - place and advert in the wanted section on here and explore eBay.
Expect to give in the region of 1K for a used lump with limited history and further bits to fit e.g. tbelt,water pump,cam chain and oil strainer as you'll never have confidence to press the accelerator. These bits probably could be covered with your original engines salvage value.
Recovery costs will depend where you settle for it to be repaired but by the time you pay all your expenses and the VAT you'll be closer to 2K to driving it once again.
Tooling means limited DIY work and it will take you an age without past experience with this type of work.
Repair of your existing is open ended since its failure and damage hasn't be diagnosed but if your lucky that way could come in under 1K and if very lucky less than £500 but this again will be slower route as it will require finding what you need 2nd hand as new costs will be terrifying.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 06, 2016, 12:04:21 pm
I think I will take it to the garage for inspection soon. My dad says tow it to a vw/mervedes specialist five miles away, but im much more confident with a garge fprty minutes away. I think I should go with the garage further, right?
Post by: GTI8v on March 06, 2016, 03:14:55 pm
As for towing to somewhere 40 minutes away, if on a trailor then go for the garage you trust.
If having to tow with a rope, old fashioned style, then garage round the corner.
If your engine doesn't run you'll have little / no braking and no power steering, which is something I personally wouldn't do.
hope you get it sorted soon though.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 06, 2016, 03:17:37 pm
Post by: GTI8v on March 06, 2016, 03:26:56 pm
Easiest way is to ring them and ask the questions, they know better than us unfortunately.
Post by: howie1987 on March 06, 2016, 05:43:21 pm
Hope you get the car sorted out. must be a gutter of a position to be in.
Goodluck mate.
Post by: r5gtt on March 06, 2016, 06:06:23 pm
Got it done for £30 from an ex colleague who was a driver for Ford lol
Then got a guy from Birmingham to collect it and take it to Devon £375.00 then someone in Rainham collected it from Devon for £125.00 :jumping: that's was cheap.
Good luck Pesky :sad1:
Post by: maicol1524 on March 06, 2016, 08:44:03 pm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: andy1979uk on March 06, 2016, 09:48:48 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 06, 2016, 09:58:25 pm
222014133509
Post by: Pesky jones on March 07, 2016, 04:09:26 pm
This is my theory. Before the incident, my engine sounded rattly when warm. Probably something to do with the cam chain/tensioner etc.
So on the day of the track day, something brakes in my.hydraulic tensioner causing it to no longer hold the right oil pressure (giving low pressure dash message) then, because no oil pressure in tensioner, the chain slips and the timing goes ( resulting in cutting out and refusing to turn back on )
This is a feasible reason for everything isnt it? Now just to prove it.
Post by: rich83 on March 07, 2016, 05:36:25 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 07, 2016, 05:58:47 pm
Have you had the cam cover and cam chain cover off yet?
Not yet. Started but struggled to get the rear breather pipes off the back. Thought I might be able to get the cover off first and that might be easier to get the pipes off at the back. Was late though and struggled to get the valve cover off as it was stuck pretty tight and didnt want to damage the gasket or mating service as I dont want to have to fork out for a new gasket at the moment.
Il try again soon.
Do you think my theory about the tensioner could be.right @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) ?
I also want to see if I can.borrow a compression gauge off a mate to check each cylinder before taking the cover off. Am I right in thinking that I just unscrew the spark.plugs and screw in the gauge and.then turn the engine over at the ignition whilst checking the gauge?
Post by: dazza on March 07, 2016, 06:11:08 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 07, 2016, 07:02:41 pm
Before removing the cover set the Tbelt to all the TDC marks for the necessary pulleys as per the links previously given - that way you can check if the chain has jumped a tooth or the belts jumped any teeth before a compression test as that's going to involve the starter motor which will do more damage if your not careful.
The valve cover removal may again take a bit brute force or a knock with a plastic hammer.
The hoses just work on them with a pick and a bit pen oil spray they will come off.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 08, 2016, 02:27:57 pm
I will try to get the timing clarified before the compression test then.
Turn crankshaft to TDC, marked with tip ex etc. Then go up top, remove cam belt cover and check that the cambelt pulley is also lined up correctly? IF these two are correct, then il remove the valve cover, HPFP and cam cover and look at the cam chain/ observe camshafts turning as I turn the crankshaft. IF both camshafts are turning then il try to insert the tool @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) kindly lent me. :notworthy:
Ideally I want to see a damaged tensioner which would back my theory up that the tensioner failed and leaked oil resulting in low oil pressure, which caused the timing to go out, resulting in it cutting out and refusing to start again
Post by: maicol1524 on March 09, 2016, 10:12:58 pm
Thanks for the advice guys
I will try to get the timing clarified before the compression test then.
Turn crankshaft to TDC, marked with tip ex etc. Then go up top, remove cam belt cover and check that the cambelt pulley is also lined up correctly? IF these two are correct, then il remove the valve cover, HPFP and cam cover and look at the cam chain/ observe camshafts turning as I turn the crankshaft. IF both camshafts are turning then il try to insert the tool @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) kindly lent me. :notworthy:
Ideally I want to see a damaged tensioner which would back my theory up that the tensioner failed and leaked oil resulting in low oil pressure, which caused the timing to go out, resulting in it cutting out and refusing to start again
No updates for today?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pesky jones on March 10, 2016, 09:56:01 am
Thanks for the advice guys
I will try to get the timing clarified before the compression test then.
Turn crankshaft to TDC, marked with tip ex etc. Then go up top, remove cam belt cover and check that the cambelt pulley is also lined up correctly? IF these two are correct, then il remove the valve cover, HPFP and cam cover and look at the cam chain/ observe camshafts turning as I turn the crankshaft. IF both camshafts are turning then il try to insert the tool @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) kindly lent me. :notworthy:
Ideally I want to see a damaged tensioner which would back my theory up that the tensioner failed and leaked oil resulting in low oil pressure, which caused the timing to go out, resulting in it cutting out and refusing to start again
No updates for today?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Afraid not, I'm going to check the crankshaft and camshaft cam belt tonight to eliminate the cambelt tonight, so will update this evening.
I plan on taking the valve and cam cover off on Saturday with plenty of time and daylight so will update about that Saturday
Post by: Pesky jones on March 10, 2016, 10:29:27 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160310_195906_zpsrul36acg.jpg&hash=35347e8a62262e1851d3b47b64d4308040359cea)
And I cant see the top of the crankshaft pulley properley as the chassis is in the way. I filmed it on my phone and the only thing I can see is this tiny little triangular indent on the pulley, nothing on the back plate. In the video I start at the top of the pulley and.go anti clockwise looking for the TDC mark
Post by: dazza on March 10, 2016, 10:43:01 pm
I used my phone to line up the cam shaft when i was doing the cam chain the viewing window is useless.
Post by: r5gtt on March 10, 2016, 10:57:03 pm
The driver has to be at the highest point when tdc is marked up.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 10, 2016, 11:10:25 pm
And is the triangular indent on the crankshaft pulley the tdc mark?
Post by: r5gtt on March 10, 2016, 11:16:39 pm
Time to Zzz
Post by: Pesky jones on March 10, 2016, 11:20:37 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 12, 2016, 10:40:07 am
Set the crankshaft at tdc, the little notch in line with the indent in the back plate.
Set the camshaft at tdc. Cant be a hundred percent they fully line up because of the angle of the phone but I reckon it probably does?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-03-12-10-52-38_zpsugv9ee0c.jpeg&hash=caf566cb95709081edd07c7a2295a9a9aa5569e1)
Post by: dazza on March 12, 2016, 11:07:15 am
Get the rocker cover and cam chain cover off :party:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 12, 2016, 11:35:20 am
Post by: dazza on March 12, 2016, 11:38:41 am
Ha, got the larger breather pipe off, now for the small one. If I cant get it off though, can I take the rocker cover off first and then try and wiggle it off that way? Cos its pretty stubbornThe small one is usually easier. Break the seal with a pic/screwdriver first then pull it off.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 12, 2016, 11:59:42 am
Post by: dazza on March 12, 2016, 12:02:58 pm
Cheers daz got em both off now. Hpfp now...Good work! After you have removed all the rocker cover bolts it may still be stuck down. Tap around it with a hammer and it should come loose.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 12, 2016, 12:21:27 pm
EDIT : makeshift bolt retriever :signLOL:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160312_122953_zpsmbefo4vq.jpg&hash=2e7df456ed98ef7b7dd67e27a8514a034f9b49c1)
Post by: Pesky jones on March 12, 2016, 02:09:35 pm
Ive got the front of the valve cover free with a little prying with a screwdriver, dont think ive done any damage to the mating surfaces. Ive just got to free the back now... I tried rocking it for a minute or two but left it for now.
Il do the rest tomorrow. Ive just put a glove over the air intake and put a cloth over the fuel pump hole and shut the bonnet so should be good untill tomorrow.
Tomorrow I'm hoping to see either a goosed chain or tensioner, something to explain the engine cutting out/refusing to start.
Will I be able to see the valves once the rocker cover is off? Possibly see some bent valves
Post by: r5gtt on March 12, 2016, 06:37:27 pm
At least engines turning over by hand and the timing lines up :smiley:
Car should still start and misfire with bent valves. possible cam chain tensioner failure is what I'm thinking. that's my opinion.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 13, 2016, 10:45:43 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160313_104141_zpsv7fnnlbc.jpg&hash=cbd652963fe792b338da4e5638597fa5f80d3a27)
Post by: rich83 on March 13, 2016, 11:17:26 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 13, 2016, 12:05:24 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 13, 2016, 12:09:54 pm
Post by: dazza on March 13, 2016, 12:13:37 pm
Im trying to get to the chain and tensioner now but struggling with the last bolt on the chain cover. Even if I get it out f*ck knows how ill get it back in :scared:Have you removed the battery and battery tray?
Post by: Pesky jones on March 13, 2016, 12:19:20 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 13, 2016, 12:30:12 pm
Post by: vRSAlex on March 13, 2016, 07:22:09 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 13, 2016, 10:44:00 pm
The only thing im hoping for now is that the tensioner is obviously completely broken, explaining the lack of oil pressure. Its obviously lost pressure causing the chain to skip, but whether that loss of pressure is due to a failed tensioner or a problem with oil pressure else where, such as oil pump.
However even if the tensioner is the reason for the lost pressure, I still wont know the extent of the damage.
In your opinion @vRSAlex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981) whats the best possible scenario from what youve seen and read? I assume worst case is the damage is so severe it isnt worth repairing and new engine.
Il have to take it to a garage to get their opinion at some point when.I can afford every outcome, but are they even going to look in to the possibility of repair from what I can.show/ tell them or just jump straight ro new engine...
Post by: rich83 on March 13, 2016, 10:46:32 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 13, 2016, 10:48:13 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 13, 2016, 10:54:19 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 13, 2016, 11:08:14 pm
This video shows what I think is a blown seal, with no control on oil pressure. This would bring up the message on my dash saying oil pressuRe turn off engine. As a result of no pressure, it isn't tensioning the chain leaving it to skip.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb558%2Ftriellymtb%2Fimage.jpg1_zpsgglywhgb.jpg&hash=95ede924922319611ccf516781baf5f26a669401)
This picture shows the plastic snapping, again I think would result in the oil pressure reading on my dash, and then subsequently the chain not being tensioned correctly leaving it so skip.
Both of these scenarios result in low oil pressure, and then the engine cutting out due to timing. It also supports the fact that the exhaust cam that is controlled by cambelt being correctly timed, but the inlet cam controlled by the cam chain being out of correct timing.
I agree rich, head off and proper inspection by a garage. I'm going to remove the cam chain cover this week regardless, just to see if what I think has happened actually has :(
Post by: rich83 on March 13, 2016, 11:27:56 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 13, 2016, 11:32:00 pm
Im no expert on the tensioner let alone the engine by any means. I mean really, im just stating my opinion and waiting for someone more knowledgeable to come along, read what ive said and tell me im wrong.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 12:38:42 pm
What do people think about these, im worried they will still be too chunky
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00DPYMU9M/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00DPYMU9M/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8)
These seem skinnier but only 100mm long. I think this will be long enough. Think this set also contains t27 and t30. The guide ive been following says they are t27 bolts but ive been.using a t30 so far and it fits fine?
Post by: dazza on March 14, 2016, 01:00:52 pm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Halfords-Advanced-30-Bit-set-C-W-1-4-Drive-Handle-Adaptor-Bit-New-/162006057609?hash=item25b8504289:g:oEwAAMXQyY1TWBp8
Here is mine with some wobble extensions etc.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2F20160314_135432_resized.jpg&hash=7e928a1183e0cc81aee5ee2ab14ab96c06e3a7c7)
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 01:29:35 pm
My 1/4 racteht set is good its got loads of entensions etc but it all uses the socket thats too thick
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 04:00:13 pm
What do you guys think.
Post by: pudding on March 14, 2016, 04:49:50 pm
You've come this far, so just time it up, replace the tensioner and chain, compression test it then fire the old beast up...... and cross your fingers :smiley:
Too much procrastinating and not enough action. Get on with it man :party:
Just kidding. I feel your anguish and caution, but the only way forward is the above :happy2:
Post by: doylebros on March 14, 2016, 04:54:20 pm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00HVD0A40/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1457959021&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=torx+long+reach&dpPl=1&dpID=416D4nZQ3RL&ref=plSrch (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00HVD0A40/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1457959021&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=torx+long+reach&dpPl=1&dpID=416D4nZQ3RL&ref=plSrch)
What do people think about these, im worried they will still be too chunky
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00DPYMU9M/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00DPYMU9M/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8)
These seem skinnier but only 100mm long. I think this will be long enough. Think this set also contains t27 and t30. The guide ive been following says they are t27 bolts but ive been.using a t30 so far and it fits fine?
Top set will do the job best.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 06:16:51 pm
@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) , yeah I'm as eager to back on the road as anyone, especially as the weathers getting nice and I've only had the remap and springs for the winter and haven't been able to use them properly yet.
Once I confirm the tensioner is properly shot, I will get a new tensioner and chain, I think there may be some other bits I'll end as well and try and re time it all up and compression test it. To re time it up with the new chain and tensioner, will I need to muck around with the cambelt or can it all be done from the cam chain end?
One thing I'm thinking is to undo the adjuster bolt, I'll need the cam locking tool to be in place to hold the exhaust camshaft in place while I pull at it with the breaker bar. However, my inlet cam is obviously not in the right place, so the cam locking tool won't slide in place thus not holding the exhaust camshaft in place. Any thoughts or advice???
Post by: dazza on March 14, 2016, 07:40:56 pm
Post by: dazza on March 14, 2016, 07:41:39 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 14, 2016, 07:56:04 pm
The cambelt needs checked for missing teeth and "Get help when doing the chain removal"
Item 7
http://parts-catalogs.club/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1728&ein=2007&f=474&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=010915420&bf=10915&hgug=109&ug=09&parent_id=2335700
Will be tight and needs someone to keep the power bar pushed against the bolt so you don't chew the bolt end up.
Post by: rich83 on March 14, 2016, 08:08:45 pm
A compression test will soon show up any bent valves.
You've come this far, so just time it up, replace the tensioner and chain, compression test it then fire the old beast up...... and cross your fingers :smiley:
Too much procrastinating and not enough action. Get on with it man :party:
Just kidding. I feel your anguish and caution, but the only way forward is the above :happy2:
Compression can only be checked if the valves/cams are timed correctly.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 09:02:26 pm
@doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) I understand once the chain is released ill be able to move the inlet cam by itself, but its being able to undo the adjuster bolt first to release the chain, seeing as id need the cam locking tool to be in place to hold the exhaust cam in place. Unless of couse I can remove the inlet cam part of the tool, or the chain is snapped. I will get a nate to hold the tool in place.
@rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) I think pudding meant compression test once ive timed it all up correctly, and then if im lacking.compression then it will.confirm bent valves
I think its 99% that valves are.damaged like doylebros says, so im in two minds whether to replace the chain and tensioner and put it all back together only for it to have no compression.
Would you say that removing head to look at valves is out of my league, be honest :signLOL:
Post by: doylebros on March 14, 2016, 09:11:50 pm
When you get the cover off you'll be able to decided how to deal with the chain - I don't see get the cams realigned as a challenge for you,yet loosening item 7 will most likely be an absolute fu*ker
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 10:12:08 pm
Then once I get it back then fit new tensioner and chain and time it back up?
Ill start looking into the job of removing the head
Post by: doylebros on March 14, 2016, 10:17:06 pm
eBay will have service exchange heads or even try a motor factor like Andrew Page for a price.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 10:19:34 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 14, 2016, 10:34:34 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 14, 2016, 10:41:33 pm
My dads just told me to f*cking get on with it :signLOL:Tell Daddy to get that bolt out and he'll sharp go from a Tiger to a Pussy Cat. :fighting:
Post by: r5gtt on March 14, 2016, 10:43:14 pm
My dads just told me to f*cking get on with it :signLOL:Yeah :stupid: hurry the hell up :slap:
:signLOL:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 15, 2016, 10:01:11 am
Post by: rich83 on March 15, 2016, 11:02:03 am
Post by: Dan_FR on March 15, 2016, 12:28:45 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 15, 2016, 12:37:25 pm
You won't have bent a rod, but you could have scored the big ends, crank, spun a bearing etc. from running without oil pressure. The only way to know is to either strip and examine, or get the top end sorted, try to start it and hope for the best
I think if the tensioner has exploded or whatever then that would explain the oil pressure light? so if that's the place it lost oil pressure, then there would still be oil pressure around the big ends hopefully?
I think i'm going to try sort the top end out and hope for the best
Post by: maicol1524 on March 15, 2016, 01:31:36 pm
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Post by: Pesky jones on March 15, 2016, 01:34:49 pm
First look the head, depends you see there, go to the block, I had the same problem, today my mechanic will be give me the car, I'll answer him which was de problem on my car ( my valves are ok, and the crankshaft, camshaft )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry, could you elaborate? Your're currently in the same position as me?
Post by: maicol1524 on March 15, 2016, 01:37:58 pm
( sorry for my English I'm Costa Rican )
And my car is ready now, all the problems were resolve
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Post by: Pesky jones on March 15, 2016, 01:38:56 pm
Yes, I had the same code and the oil pressure warning, today I'll pick up my car and I will ask him which was the problem
( sorry for my English I'm Costa Rican )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No worries! That would be great, thanks mate. Did yours cut out and refuse to turn back on as well?I assume if your picking up today then its fixed?? Great news, happy for you, even if i am slightly jealous :wink:How much if you don't mind me asking
Post by: maicol1524 on March 15, 2016, 01:43:25 pm
Yes, I had the same code and the oil pressure warning, today I'll pick up my car and I will ask him which was the problem
( sorry for my English I'm Costa Rican )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No worries! That would be great, thanks mate. Did yours cut out and refuse to turn back on as well?I assume if your picking up today then its fixed?? Great news, happy for you, even if i am slightly jealous :wink:How much if you don't mind me asking
Yes I did, 1 min later I started again ( without the fail on my panel ) and runs like 4km to my mechanic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pesky jones on March 15, 2016, 08:02:02 pm
Yes, I had the same code and the oil pressure warning, today I'll pick up my car and I will ask him which was the problem
( sorry for my English I'm Costa Rican )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No worries! That would be great, thanks mate. Did yours cut out and refuse to turn back on as well?I assume if your picking up today then its fixed?? Great news, happy for you, even if i am slightly jealous :wink:How much if you don't mind me asking
Yes I did, 1 min later I started again ( without the fail on my panel ) and runs like 4km to my mechanic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Any news?
Post by: maicol1524 on March 15, 2016, 08:04:54 pm
Yes, I had the same code and the oil pressure warning, today I'll pick up my car and I will ask him which was the problem
( sorry for my English I'm Costa Rican )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No worries! That would be great, thanks mate. Did yours cut out and refuse to turn back on as well?I assume if your picking up today then its fixed?? Great news, happy for you, even if i am slightly jealous :wink:How much if you don't mind me asking
Yes I did, 1 min later I started again ( without the fail on my panel ) and runs like 4km to my mechanic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Any news?
In two hours I'll be picking the car, he charged me around $830
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: doylebros on March 15, 2016, 08:08:00 pm
Post by: Roadrebel on March 15, 2016, 09:56:02 pm
If yes then the chain has slipped and the valves may be ok.
If no then the chain has broken and some of the pistons have hit some of the valves and bent them.
You can determine this in seconds without messing about with the chain and cover.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 15, 2016, 11:00:14 pm
Post by: vRSAlex on March 16, 2016, 01:33:40 pm
Firstly, I appologise for another post without any progress, but I cant do anything until I receive the long reach anyway :wink: But someone at work has said the big ends could have bent. I didn’t think I could remove the oil pump unit to reveal the big ends because the bolts aren’t reusable and apparently cost 600£! Im hoping that the big ends never lost oil pressure if it was just the tensioner exploding and loosing oil pressure there. There would still be oil pressure in the block, right? I’d hate to get the head rebuilt/replaced etc spend a load of money only to find there are issues with the block.
Tell your mate that April fools day is next month. :P
Post by: Pesky jones on March 16, 2016, 01:44:41 pm
Firstly, I appologise for another post without any progress, but I cant do anything until I receive the long reach anyway :wink: But someone at work has said the big ends could have bent. I didn’t think I could remove the oil pump unit to reveal the big ends because the bolts aren’t reusable and apparently cost 600£! Im hoping that the big ends never lost oil pressure if it was just the tensioner exploding and loosing oil pressure there. There would still be oil pressure in the block, right? I’d hate to get the head rebuilt/replaced etc spend a load of money only to find there are issues with the block.
Tell your mate that April fools day is next month. :P
So the big ends are probably fine?
Cover comes off tonight so will report back/post pics tonight.
On another note, I saw in dazzas thread you said that the laser cam locking tool isn't strong enough to hold the exhaust cam whilst undoing the adjustor bolt? If I need to undo mine will this be a problem?
Post by: dazza on March 16, 2016, 02:12:53 pm
On another note, I saw in dazzas thread you said that the laser cam locking tool isn't strong enough to hold the exhaust cam whilst undoing the adjustor bolt? If I need to undo mine will this be a problem?
This tool has been used 6 times now with no problems.
Post by: Roadrebel on March 16, 2016, 05:44:24 pm
@Roadrebel (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8733) if it had skipped a few teeth then id agree possibly no valves damaged, but it looks like its skipped quite a bit. I still need to remove the cover to look at the condition of thr tensioner and chain etc. To confirm that was the reason for the low oil pressure message. If its in good condition then the oil pressure message has come from somewhere else.
So the inlet camshaft does still turn when you turn the engine by hand? If it does and the chain has slipped a lot then many valves could be bent. I would start looking for a replacement head.
Post by: doylebros on March 16, 2016, 06:10:37 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 16, 2016, 06:18:37 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 16, 2016, 07:04:49 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160316_190253_zpscewupbtz.jpg&hash=c664a442d48e55679dd67f3eb190f9db9d244719)
Post by: maicol1524 on March 16, 2016, 07:10:08 pm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: maicol1524 on March 16, 2016, 07:11:15 pm
Chain snapped.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160316_190253_zpscewupbtz.jpg&hash=c664a442d48e55679dd67f3eb190f9db9d244719)
OMG
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Post by: vRSAlex on March 16, 2016, 07:20:09 pm
Chain snapped.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160316_190253_zpscewupbtz.jpg&hash=c664a442d48e55679dd67f3eb190f9db9d244719)
Nice. At least we know what happened now.
Post by: doylebros on March 16, 2016, 07:21:51 pm
What's your game plan now Pesky?
Post by: dazza on March 16, 2016, 07:55:19 pm
Well done on tracking down the problem.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 16, 2016, 09:05:03 pm
In the cover I found one part of the broken chain, couldn't find the other bit so its lost somewhere. I also found bits of the broken tensioner.
The tensioner had a few bits snapped off and was completely loose, I dont know if you can see in the photo but its lopsided. When you push it down oil seeps out around the seal, so this might explain the oil oressure message.
When I tried turning the inlet cam it would turn slowly, and then suddenly "snap" round with a load of force. Doesnt feel right at all.
Yeah dazza youre right it was in my do to list :sad1: should have trusted my instinct and done it asap.
Il upload the video as soon as its done
Post by: doylebros on March 16, 2016, 09:15:32 pm
Post by: Sequence on March 17, 2016, 12:00:35 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 08:40:05 am
Judging by the state of the tensioner, can anyone tell me if that would explain the oil pressure message on the dash?
What do people make of the turning action of the inlet camshaft?
Post by: DANBOY66 on March 17, 2016, 08:50:47 am
i have just removed a bwj engine with a hole in the block
i need to take the head off it to see if its any good if its ok we can have a deal :wink:
dan..
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 09:03:22 am
start removing the head mate
i have just removed a bwj engine with a hole in the block
i need to take the head off it to see if its any good if its ok we can have a deal :wink:
dan..
Sounds like a plan! Let me know!
Post by: Dan_FR on March 17, 2016, 09:30:42 am
Either way the head will need to come off as you will have bent valves. May not need a new head, it could be perfectly salvageable and just need cleaning/repairing and building up with new valves etc. You wont know until its off - although depending on price - a second hand one could be cheapest.
Whether or not the bottom end/oil pump is ok - who knows. Only way to is to inspect it - or sort the head/chain and take a chance. I'd want to find the missing bits of chain first though.
Personally I would remove the oil pump to check it, as if that's finished and was the cause of a loss of pressure, it could end up more cost effective sourcing another engine to drop in. For a £60 cost of bolts you would be able to inspect oil pump and bottom end, and know whether you are wasting more time and money
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 10:11:04 am
Yeah I'll take the head off and have a look at it and assess condition. There's one tiny bit of the chain missing, in the video I show one of the two bits.
Post by: d11ps on March 17, 2016, 11:36:55 am
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Post by: pudding on March 17, 2016, 11:41:33 am
Yep that is a small consolation lol
Judging by the state of the tensioner, can anyone tell me if that would explain the oil pressure message on the dash?
What do people make of the turning action of the inlet camshaft?
The tensioner has extended beyond it's normal range of travel because of the chain snapping, which is why it's lop sided.
As for the pressure warning, it's probably expected if the tensioner suddenly loses all it's pressure.
Yeah the cam will snap round because of the valve springs pushing on the lobes.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 12:22:33 pm
Yep that is a small consolation lol
Judging by the state of the tensioner, can anyone tell me if that would explain the oil pressure message on the dash?
What do people make of the turning action of the inlet camshaft?
The tensioner has extended beyond it's normal range of travel because of the chain snapping, which is why it's lop sided.
As for the pressure warning, it's probably expected if the tensioner suddenly loses all it's pressure.
Yeah the cam will snap round because of the valve springs pushing on the lobes.
I can understand that the tensioner would loose oil pressure once extended, giving the pressure message, but it doesn't make sense with what happened in chronological order : oil pressure warning - really rattly but still running - cuts out.
The chain presumably snapped just before the engine cut out, so up until that point the chain would have been ok and kept the tensioner tensioned. So the tensioner can't fully extend (and give oil pressure message) until the chain has snapped - which presumably was the last thing to happen before the engine cut out.
In the video I push the tensioner up and down and it seeps oil around the shaft. I'm not sure if its supposed to do this, perhaps it blew a seal, pissed out oil, gave oil pressure warning, lost tension on chain, chain then snaps shortly after due to the lack of tension and the engine cuts out. That fits with what happened chronologically, but I've got no way of knowing for sure.
hope that makes sense
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 02:13:08 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 17, 2016, 02:40:09 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Frich%2Fimg%2FCam%2520tensioner%2FPhoto%252017-03-2016%252C%25202%252035%252028%2520pm.jpg&hash=daebc5de4ecb150f41527f3157f7a0fb506d9c89)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Frich%2Fimg%2FCam%2520tensioner%2FPhoto%252017-03-2016%252C%25202%252036%252000%2520pm.jpg&hash=6870d8ae6c5eb1b8e5c1493bbe7ab721e24849e0)
@dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) will be able to tell you about the adjuster as he installed a new one.
Post by: rich83 on March 17, 2016, 02:44:53 pm
Have you tried tuning the inlet cam with the rocker cover off?
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 02:49:52 pm
I think ill wait to see what @DANBOY66 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8622) 's cylinder head condition is like, and then take it off his hands (let me know mate)
@rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) Nope havnt tried turning with rocker cover off yet.
Post by: rich83 on March 17, 2016, 02:54:37 pm
Post by: dazza on March 17, 2016, 03:14:53 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 03:19:46 pm
Im thinking now ive got to try and salvage as much as possible from this head depending on condition to transfer to new head. Ideally id like both camshafts, rocker cover, cam chain cover, hpfp etc. Should I look at cambelt kits?
Another thing to make things more annoying is I think im running out of time in the girlfriends garage lol. She lives at home and I think it might be starting to get at her parents. I do have a garage at mine but it is very tight either side of the car, unlit with no electricity and not the best ground. I could put it in there, but wouldn’t feel comfortable having it on axle stands. To replace head id assume id need to get under the car? Id happily work in there if I could do all the work from above.
Post by: andy1979uk on March 17, 2016, 03:25:39 pm
Post by: andy1979uk on March 17, 2016, 03:48:49 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 03:53:35 pm
Post by: DANBOY66 on March 17, 2016, 04:28:50 pm
i will not know about mine till the end of next week so if you can source on e dont wait for me unless its mega expensive as i will do my one at a good price for you (if its ok)
Post by: doylebros on March 17, 2016, 05:36:06 pm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TIMING-CHAIN-KIT-FOR-VW-GOLF-2-0-2004-2013-TCK124-/231359319871?hash=item35de170f3f:g:GvUAAOSwr81UPBlc
Just find all,of the broken bits you can - fit the above and turn it over by hand - if it feels good go with the key to do your compression test.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 10:46:56 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 11:02:22 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 17, 2016, 11:18:05 pm
I'd go with replacing the parts as mentioned many time and take it from there as you're trying to save as much as you can and taking the head off to mess around with it isn't necessary atm. get the parts in hand turn as mentioned and then compression test it with the key. charge the battery too :signLOL:
FAI are actually a good branded name as I used to sell this brand at a high performance shop I worked at many years ago.
Take the future in laws a bottle and some flowers to say thanks for allowing you to have the car there for so long as it couldn't be helped. be apologetic :slap: :drinking:
Post by: Dan_FR on March 17, 2016, 11:20:06 pm
I also would not be trusting cheap eBay parts like that
Sensor? Do you mean the camshaft adjuster solenoid? Best part of £100 from memory
Post by: Pesky jones on March 17, 2016, 11:25:22 pm
Yeah I can't help but think my valves will be bust. Which makes me think if I can get my hands on a 2nd hand head with chain and tensioner etc and a cam cover with the solenoid then that's my best shot.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 18, 2016, 12:21:19 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 18, 2016, 02:14:30 pm
I was going to follow this guide, but it looks like its for a bwa engine... anyone tell me the diffrerences? Looks veeeery long. guide says 12 hours :scared: wonder how long itll take me :sad1: :stupid:
Post by: pudding on March 18, 2016, 02:14:55 pm
I'm going to make a start on removing the head this weekend. Any tips/advice?
Going for it are ya? Cool!
Make sure you drain all the coolant obviously, and hit all the exhaust related nuts / bolts with some penetrating oil.
It's pretty much just a case of unbolting everything and pulling it off. Find the head bolt torqueing sequence and follow it when tightening up the new head. You'll need new head bolts if they're the stretch type.
After your experience, I've bought all the bits to replace the chain and tensioner, so gonna hit that this weekend. Really can't be fagged with it tbh, but I'd rather not have this happen!
Post by: Pesky jones on March 18, 2016, 02:32:09 pm
Yeah I think so, I think its the only real option I have! Certainly not looking forward to it. Wouldn't be so bad if I could follow the guide exactly, but I think bits vary in it because mines an axx not a bwa....
Post by: doylebros on March 18, 2016, 05:30:57 pm
I'm going to make a start on removing the head this weekend. Any tips/advice?
Like I said before fit the chain spend (no other money and take no more apart) test by hand then compression test - subject to results move on to test run it.
It will most likely start and missfire but they quite often run good enough to limp about to allow noise evaluation for bearing failure even towing.
Then you have time to know if it's a full engine or just head strip or replace.
All this could be done by you in a couple of hours with the tools you've got.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 18, 2016, 05:45:22 pm
I'm going to make a start on removing the head this weekend. Any tips/advice?
Like I said before fit the chain spend (no other money and take no more apart) test by hand then compression test - subject to results move on to test run it.
It will most likely start and missfire but they quite often run good enough to limp about to allow noise evaluation for bearing failure even towing.
Then you have time to know if it's a full engine or just head strip or replace.
All this could be done by you in a couple of hours with the tools you've got.
Thanks @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) I must admit that makes the most sense to me. I will do this. Marius has said pretty much exactly the same thing, except that he said just get a new chain, as the tensioner will work well enough with the spring, as I will only be hand turning to test compression. Although I think I might as well get the tensioner as well. Will see if I can get them tps tomorrow as I have sunday and monday to work on it as that link from ebay wont get here for a while.
Is there no other bits I need? I know to do the full cam chain renewal there's gaskets, bolts etc to buy as well.
Will it start even if the camshaft solenoid that is broken isnt replaced?
Post by: doylebros on March 18, 2016, 06:02:54 pm
Metal cover gasket will be ok but a few new cover bolts if you chewed them up.
The solenoid can make starting a bit more difficult and put up a few codes but that's not going to stop you achieving what your after.
TPS will normally have the chain and tensioner in stock - fit both.
Don't undo item 7 you'll be able to slip all the items in place with the tensioner pin in - if not for what ever reason you'll have to undo it but I've had bad days with that bolt more than once!
Oil leaks will be an issue but again again if it's only a drip or squirt then carry on stop if it's a gusher.
Report back your finding.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 18, 2016, 06:22:11 pm
Clips for the both hoses is a must to the cam box cover.
Metal cover gasket will be ok but a few new cover bolts if you chewed them up.
The solenoid can make starting a bit more difficult and put up a few codes but that's not going to stop you achieving what your after.
TPS will normally have the chain and tensioner in stock - fit both.
Don't undo item 7 you'll be able to slip all the items in place with the tensioner pin in - if not for what ever reason you'll have to undo it but I've had bad days with that bolt more than once!
Oil leaks will be an issue but again again if it's only a drip or squirt then carry on stop if it's a gusher.
Report back your finding.
Will do, thanks a lot doylebros. What do you mean both hoses for the cam box cover? I didnt chew up any bolts for the cam chain cover so should be fine. Metal gasket looks ok.
How will I know if the tensioner is leaking a lot or not alot of oil once the covers are all back on?
I assume the inlet camshafy will be.correctly.timed once the notches in it are vertical and I can fit the locking.tool in
Post by: doylebros on March 18, 2016, 06:45:25 pm
Clips for the both hoses is a must to the cam box cover.
Metal cover gasket will be ok but a few new cover bolts if you chewed them up.
The solenoid can make starting a bit more difficult and put up a few codes but that's not going to stop you achieving what your after.
TPS will normally have the chain and tensioner in stock - fit both.
Don't undo item 7 you'll be able to slip all the items in place with the tensioner pin in - if not for what ever reason you'll have to undo it but I've had bad days with that bolt more than once!
Oil leaks will be an issue but again again if it's only a drip or squirt then carry on stop if it's a gusher.
Report back your finding.
Will do, thanks a lot doylebros. What do you mean both hoses for the cam box cover? I didnt chew up any bolts for the cam chain cover so should be fine. Metal gasket looks ok.
How will I know if the tensioner is leaking a lot or not alot of oil once the covers are all back on?
I assume the inlet camshafy will be.correctly.timed once the notches in it are vertical and I can fit the locking.tool in
What I meant to say was the hose on the cam box cover secured with a clip (http://partscatalog.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1728&ein=2007&f=474&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=014565412&bf=14565&hgug=145&ug=45&parent_id=2340037&detail_id=2340092 ) - since being at the back of the engine oil leakage towards the exhaust isn't what you want as you've got plenty new areas to deal with.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 18, 2016, 06:48:53 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 18, 2016, 07:05:17 pm
You will have a lot too think about so put the battery on charge so your ready for that stage when it comes.
Take care with the fuel pipes for leakage and remove the fuel pump relay fuse if your doing the compression test.
Post by: Paulo P on March 18, 2016, 07:54:32 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 19, 2016, 10:21:37 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 19, 2016, 02:48:25 pm
Not sure if genuine or not however
Post by: dazza on March 19, 2016, 03:21:54 pm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Camshaft-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-ft-AUDI-A3-A4-A6-TT-Octavia-Leon-2-0T-06F109217A-/231859314582?hash=item35fbe45f96:g:vJsAAOSwG-1W0hA-
Post by: Pesky jones on March 19, 2016, 03:26:49 pm
Post by: Paulo P on March 19, 2016, 03:45:41 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 19, 2016, 03:53:31 pm
Post by: dazza on March 19, 2016, 03:59:47 pm
I believe IWIS supply the chains for most european brands.
https://www.europaparts.com/timing-chain-tensioner-06f109217a.html
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2Fcam_chain.jpg&hash=31a8ab4317934f3462fe7c191d39f1ddda8c58e3)
Post by: Paulo P on March 19, 2016, 04:02:13 pm
Simply unbolt the 2 cams & all 4 spark plugs and compression test it that way, if it has decent compression on all 4 cylinders that's great, if not just get it recovered to a garage in that state.
In my opinion the head will have to come off anyway so you have nothing to lose.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 19, 2016, 04:16:54 pm
Post by: Tazgti5 on March 19, 2016, 04:30:46 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 19, 2016, 05:21:47 pm
To be honest I don't think il have time to remove head, and either wait for current head to be repaired or wait for new head. I think my best option is to refit a cheap chain and tensioner, time it up, hand crank it, compression test it, hope that only one or two valves have bent and that the engine will run even if in limp mode so I can drive it somewhere to have the head removed and repaired. I did as r5gtt suggested and bought the future in laws some wine to try and butter them up but I think I've still only got one week, two max and it'll take longer than that to sort out the head. It's a shame because strangely enough I'm enjoying the various bits of work I'm doing and would like the chance to take the head off to better understand the engine. Plus it would be serious DIY points in my booksPlenty advice,from every direction and all good if you have the time money and tooling etc.
I would do exactly what you say in the above minus the driving,tow yes drive no.
Let's have a bit good luck and be patient with yourself and you'll have it all sorted one way or the other eg replacement engine or top end. Pesky keep in mind to spend as little as possible to allow you to do a sensible evaluation.
Post by: pudding on March 19, 2016, 06:18:07 pm
You might not have bent any valves. You might have been lucky and the chain snapped at a non critical timing event and perhaps a couple of valves kissed a piston as the valve springs were unloading the cam. A leak down test would be the best way to check but you need a compressor to do that. Or you could just put it back together and see what happens. If it runs like cack you know what's next!
Post by: Pesky jones on March 19, 2016, 07:01:13 pm
I just have to wait for the chain and tensioner now :( I hate not being able to do anything. I cleaned the garage and work area, and I took the.cam chain cover apart to search for missing plastic from tensioner and the metal from chain but couldnt find it.
I also just pushed the plastic from.the camshaft solenoid back on to the prongs, tbh it might work like it is.
Couldnt.find any more missing bits, but tomorrow ill have a.good search inside the camshaft area and inspect anything.
Becase the exhaust cam is still in time, thwn none of.the valves willl on the exhaust side will have bent?
Post by: doylebros on March 19, 2016, 07:07:05 pm
Post by: pudding on March 19, 2016, 08:25:42 pm
If there aren't any bits of plastic in the chain cover, you should be fine. It's the only place they can go.
Exhaust valves are strong, you might be OK. In theory, when the chain snapped the inlet cam probably snapped shut enough of the intake valves to stop the engine, so there's a slim chance you might have got away with it. How fast were you driving at the time? If it happened at idle speed, your chances improve dramatically.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 19, 2016, 09:03:26 pm
If yours seeped oil as well, I dont know where the oil pressure message came from?
Post by: callis on March 20, 2016, 04:11:09 pm
Just got back from holiday and was interested to see what had happened to your oil problem. I am sorry to see that your chain has snapped, i honestly thought it was just blocked and had fingers crossed for you.
On a side note, is a snapped chain something that VW may help with cost of repair? Shouldnt really snap at all and should surely last time of the engine?
Post by: r5gtt on March 20, 2016, 04:26:50 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 20, 2016, 05:10:05 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 20, 2016, 05:21:27 pm
What would make sense to me is if the tensioner failed, giving the oil message, and then after a while with the tensioner.not.working the.chain snaps.
However, I cant pin point anything wrong with the tensioner, apart from a snapped bottom guide. It.might havr snapped, and then the snapped chunk got in the way of the chain and snapped it. But that snapping wouldnt affect oil pressure.
If anyone wants to havr a good think about It that would be great :happy2:
Post by: r5gtt on March 20, 2016, 05:23:51 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 20, 2016, 05:25:12 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 20, 2016, 05:27:26 pm
The thing thats getting me is why did I get the oil message coupled with the mega rattly sound for a considerable amount of time before it cut out.The oil pressure will drop amd illuminate on the dash as you drove the car to a stop not realising what damage would be caused and then trying to start it a few more times totally killed it. chain snaps and you get bent valves. I bet if you fit the chain and tensioner in you'll start the car and it will misfire on a few cylinders. usually inlet valve side iirc :thinking: anyone want to add to this?.
What would make sense to me is if the tensioner failed, giving the oil message, and then after a while with the tensioner.not.working the.chain snaps.
However, I cant pin point anything wrong with the tensioner, apart from a snapped bottom guide. It.might havr snapped, and then the snapped chunk got in the way of the chain and snapped it. But that snapping wouldnt affect oil pressure.
If anyone wants to havr a good think about It that would be great :happy2:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 20, 2016, 05:39:26 pm
The oil pressure will drop amd illuminate on the dash as you drove the car to a stop not realising what damage would be caused and then trying to start it a few more times totally killed it. chain snaps and you get bent valves. I bet if you fit the chain and tensioner in you'll start the car and it will misfire on a few cylinders. usually inlet valve side iirc :thinking: anyone want to add to this?.
Yeah, exactly that... what im wondering is what caused the oil pressure message..like I said the engine would cut out as soon as chain snapped and thus most liekly bending load of valves, so what was happening up untill the chain snapped. Id be happy if the tensioner looked like the one in the video, because if that was mine, I could say tensiinerr guide snapped, shaft extended, lost oil.pressure, continued running with pressure message and sounding like sh*t, then after a while the chain snaps and bends valves. New head/repair valves and new chain and tensioner job done. But my tensioner doesnt look like that, apart from the snapped bottom guide it still looks like it would be functional.
In regard to removing head (assuming I can do it :signLOL:) ill probably just see bent valves and wont know why the oil pressure message came up. If t fit cheapish new chain and tensioner and start it, and it just misfires, but with no oil pressure message, then happy days, ill know it was the tensioner that failed and I can source a new head kind of confident that I wont have an oil issue.
well the exhaust side is still in correct timing so will only be inlet side valves damaged surely?
Post by: r5gtt on March 20, 2016, 08:29:12 pm
Yes you'll most likely have bent the inlet side valves so get to it and fit the parts on as I for one want to know you've got it running :jumping:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 20, 2016, 08:58:23 pm
Haha cheers mate apreicate the support and advice as ever. I probably will but just want to try a cheap option first incase by some miracle no valves have bent. It will also tell me if it was the tensioner that brought about low oil pressure
Post by: rich83 on March 20, 2016, 09:02:46 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 20, 2016, 09:14:18 pm
But what failed in the tensioner?Wear and tear will cause any tensioner to fail. I replaced one in an a6 1.8t because it rattled like a tractor for a few years before the engine died although I told him to replace it ages back. I removed the rocker and found bits broken and some almost dropping down the side into the block iirc. Gathered it all up as best I could, replaced the tensioner with a eurocarparts one fitted the cam back in place and started the car and wow to my astonishment car started straight away and sounded well compared to what it was.
Haha cheers mate apreicate the support and advice as ever. I probably will but just want to try a cheap option first incase by some miracle no valves have bent. It will also tell me if it was the tensioner that brought about low oil pressure
As for trying to start the car with a snapped chain I'd say valves are bent.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 20, 2016, 10:12:46 pm
It hasn't from what I can see. Some of the plastic is missing but it still should have been tensioning the chain before it snapped.
Exactly, so what caused the loss of pressure. Unless its something that is not obvious. The oil is fed from the head through a gauze in tensioner, so unless this somehow blocked I dont know. All I think I can do is fit new chain and tensionser and start it to see if I get the pressure message. If compression test comes back bad then I will just have to replace the head or have it repaired
Post by: Pesky jones on March 20, 2016, 10:34:33 pm
Hy buddy
Just got back from holiday and was interested to see what had happened to your oil problem. I am sorry to see that your chain has snapped, i honestly thought it was just blocked and had fingers crossed for you.
On a side note, is a snapped chain something that VW may help with cost of repair? Shouldnt really snap at all and should surely last time of the engine?
Hi mate hope you had a good holiday. No worries! Im not going to deny the false hope but you wernt to know :smiley:
I might drop an email to vw but I doubt theyll help. No doubt it will go nowhere. Anyone want a bet on the reason they give? Remap? Mileage? Winner gets a snapped cam chain
Post by: pudding on March 21, 2016, 09:55:53 am
It hasn't from what I can see. Some of the plastic is missing but it still should have been tensioning the chain before it snapped.
Exactly, so what caused the loss of pressure. Unless its something that is not obvious. The oil is fed from the head through a gauze in tensioner, so unless this somehow blocked I dont know. All I think I can do is fit new chain and tensionser and start it to see if I get the pressure message. If compression test comes back bad then I will just have to replace the head or have it repaired
My gauze was like new. I think that's there to catch any bearing crumbs as the majority of the crud that flows through the engine is trapped by the oil filter. Anyway, this oil pressure thing. If you consider a pump just creates volume / flow and bearing clearances / tensioners etc create the pressure...... if the tensioner suddenly fails, that's a fair bit of pressure suddenly releasing, which could have triggered the warning light.
TBH I think you need to let that go and focus on the task at hand :wink:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 21, 2016, 10:49:50 am
It hasn't from what I can see. Some of the plastic is missing but it still should have been tensioning the chain before it snapped.
Exactly, so what caused the loss of pressure. Unless its something that is not obvious. The oil is fed from the head through a gauze in tensioner, so unless this somehow blocked I dont know. All I think I can do is fit new chain and tensionser and start it to see if I get the pressure message. If compression test comes back bad then I will just have to replace the head or have it repaired
My gauze was like new. I think that's there to catch any bearing crumbs as the majority of the crud that flows through the engine is trapped by the oil filter. Anyway, this oil pressure thing. If you consider a pump just creates volume / flow and bearing clearances / tensioners etc create the pressure...... if the tensioner suddenly fails, that's a fair bit of pressure suddenly releasing, which could have triggered the warning light.
TBH I think you need to let that go and focus on the task at hand :wink:
Haha well im not doing anything untill the chain and tesnioner gets here wednesday so just thinking. I agree, but the tensioner doesnt look like its failed! Ok ok ill let it go for now lol
Post by: flashp on March 21, 2016, 10:52:36 am
Nearly a month on I would have paid a garage before now. :laugh:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 21, 2016, 10:54:46 am
Post by: flashp on March 21, 2016, 11:00:20 am
Haha its not perserverance mate its money! Just buying our first house so every bit of dollar is going on that! Has it been a month :sad1:Well, good for you whatever your reasons!
I would have said f**k it by now :signLOL:
Can understand your reasons though.
Hope you get to the bottom of it all soon and get it back together ASAP. :happy2:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 21, 2016, 02:08:37 pm
Thinking of this compression gauge. My mate at work couldn't find his :( anyone know if it will fit? Also, what spark plugs do we have? I've got a 21mm plug socket and a smaller one but I can't remember the size of the smaller
Post by: pudding on March 21, 2016, 02:12:44 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 21, 2016, 04:53:48 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on March 21, 2016, 06:14:03 pm
Which it wont (or wont run properly) as you will have valve damage..... these are interference engines... you cant turn the engine over with half the valves not moving without at least some of them making contact with a piston
Post by: Pesky jones on March 21, 2016, 06:58:33 pm
That kit will only work once the engine is timed up and using the starter/compression stroke to build compression..... by then you might aswell attempt starting it and seeing if it runs....Ok so when I turned it over by hand there will have been piston to valve contact? I wouldn't have been able to do that much damage by hand would I? Is it possible the valves have bent out the way of the stroke?
Which it wont (or wont run properly) as you will have valve damage..... these are interference engines... you cant turn the engine over with half the valves not moving without at least some of them making contact with a piston
I was hoping that that the valves would have bent out the way, so the stroke can complete but lacking compression in some cylinders. Then after a compression test I would have an idea of how many valves have bent. Also, if it ran (even with misfires) then I would be able to see if the oil pressure warning is still there, with the new tensioner and correct timing.
I think at the end of the day I will have to take the head off at some point or another to find out whether I should send it off for repair or get a replacement cylinder head. It won't cost me anything to take the head off (fingers crossed) to find out.
Post by: Dan_FR on March 21, 2016, 11:16:15 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 21, 2016, 11:19:41 pm
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 10:23:02 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 10:26:15 am
Removing the cambelt and head should be easy compared to what you've already done, re-fitting is the harder part :happy2:
Ha oh really? What are the difficult bits of refitting?
I think I remember someone saying about the engine mount being a pain to remove @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) or @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) maybe?
Post by: r5gtt on March 22, 2016, 10:40:45 am
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 10:41:42 am
Removing the cambelt and head should be easy compared to what you've already done, re-fitting is the harder part :happy2:
Ha oh really? What are the difficult bits of refitting?
I think I remember someone saying about the engine mount being a pain to remove @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) or @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) maybe?
Cambelt timing can scare people off but on VW engines that's easier because you've only got to line up one cam pulley. You've then got to make sure that everything is 100% clean between the head to block mounting faces and correctly torque the head down.
If you've got the time, tools and patience there's no reason why you can't do it, it just about confidence.
I had a cambelt snap 200 miles into a running in period on my old Integrale 16 valve after paying someone else to rebuild the engine. That suffered bent valves and I repaired it myself in the end and I'm no mechanic, all I did was towed it to a garage to fit a new cambelt because back then I was scared of cambelts having had 1 jump and destroy the engine and then another one snap :grin:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 10:43:56 am
Are we referring to the bracket on the engine side and if so yes it is.
Yay
Removing the cambelt and head should be easy compared to what you've already done, re-fitting is the harder part :happy2:
Ha oh really? What are the difficult bits of refitting?
I think I remember someone saying about the engine mount being a pain to remove @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) or @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) maybe?
Cambelt timing can scare people off but on VW engines that's easier because you've only got to line up one cam pulley. You've then got to make sure that everything is 100% clean between the head to block mounting faces and correctly torque the head down.
If you've got the time, tools and patience there's no reason why you can't do it, it just about confidence.
I had a cambelt snap 200 miles into a running in period on my old Integrale 16 valve after paying someone else to rebuild the engine. That suffered bent valves and I repaired it myself in the end and I'm no mechanic, all I did was towed it to a garage to fit a new cambelt because back then I was scared of cambelts having had 1 jump and destroy the engine and then another one snap :grin:
Ok. Ill keep telling myself I can do it then!
I’m sure im getting ahead of myself again but…
Say I remove head this weekend. Valves have bent and I decide to get a new cylinder head. I refit everything and all ready to go. I turn on engine and theres still an oil pressure warning light. I will have wasted a lot of time and money and probably would have been better off going for a new engine to begin with.
I’m praying that it is just a new cylinder head as I think I might be able to remove and refit myself, and it will just be the cost of the new head, bolts, gaskets, coolant etc.
Really I think Id need to eliminate the oil pump, but that will mean dropping the sump again, and trying to get the balance shaft unit off (something I can’t find much info for). As I’ve mentioned plenty of times :ashamed: if the tensioner had proved the reason for the oil pressure message I would be confident in just replacing the cylinder head. But then again I don’t know the order of events in which the chain snapped so cant definitively rule the tensioner being the root of the problem out.
Bit of a mental battle im having here :signLOL: :thinking:
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 10:53:34 am
If you are going down the route of removing the head and you're not timing it up first try compression testing the engine with the cams out before removing the head, it might give you an indication of what's going on inside the engine before you lift the head.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 11:05:11 am
I'd be very surprised if there's anything wrong with the oil pump, I think the warning came up due to the failed tensioner. In my opinion you only had one event happen inside your engine and that was the tensioner which led to the chain failing and possible valve damage.
If you are going down the route of removing the head and you're not timing it up first try compression testing the engine with the cams out before removing the head, it might give you an indication of what's going on inside the engine before you lift the head.
Ok although I don't know how or why the tensioner failed, I will work on the assumption that that was the reason for the oil pressure light. I was just worried about the fact that the warning message appeared for a considerable amount of time before the chain snapped. It looks like the tensioner was functional (thus no reason for pressure light) up until the chain snapped.
I don't really understand how compression testing with the cams out works, do you not need the cams in to keep the valves correctly timed to get an idea of compression?
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 11:10:03 am
It's a dead simple test if you're already heading down that route, if it turns out that you have good compression you may not even have to remove the head.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 11:28:50 am
So in terms of removing the camshafts – I would still need to remove the cambelt, as well as the exhaust cam adjustor, the inelt cam lobe on the cam chain end?
Then after camshafts are out, I would refit everything, and then compression test on each cylinder using the ignition and starter motor? Remove the other spark plugs im not testing so the pressure is released I assume?
Post by: pudding on March 22, 2016, 11:36:57 am
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 11:42:22 am
Ah I see, because the cam lobes aren't forcing the valves down against the springs, so they pop up.
Correct, all valves (unbent) will be shut.
So in terms of removing the camshafts – I would still need to remove the cambelt, as well as the exhaust cam adjustor, the inelt cam lobe on the cam chain end?
I'm no expert on the tfsi engine, certainly the cambelt will have to be removed and you've already taken care of the chain.
Then after camshafts are out, I would refit everything, and then compression test on each cylinder using the ignition and starter motor? Remove the other spark plugs im not testing so the pressure is released I assume?
You shouldn't need to refit anything, I would personally remove the other plugs and crank it by hand just to be sure. I wouldn't bother cranking it with the starter motor because you've got no oil in there and valves could be bent and clip pistons, cranking by hand should be sufficient for what you need, it's just to give an indication.
If you find good compression across all 4 you've been lucky, I suspect that this won't be the case though, it would be better to find out now though rather than removing the head to find no valve damage.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 11:46:01 am
You can just remove the cam girdle and they'll both come out without the need to remove the adjuster. Just slip the belt off the pulley. The bolts for the girdle are stretchers, so you'll need new ones. There's 24 of them iirc.
Right. So whats the cam girdle :laugh:
Do you mean slip the cambelt off the exhaust cam pulley? I take it I should mark it for reference when putting it back.
You shouldn't need to refit anything, I would personally remove the other plugs and crank it by hand just to be sure. I wouldn't bother cranking it with the starter motor because you've got no oil in there and valves could be bent and clip pistons, cranking by hand should be sufficient for what you need, it's just to give an indication.
If you find good compression across all 4 you've been lucky, I suspect that this won't be the case though, it would be better to find out now though rather than removing the head to find no valve damage.
Yeah I can see the advantage of finding out now. Ok sounds good. thanks Paulo :happy2:
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 11:53:37 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 12:16:42 pm
You won't be refitting that belt, when it comes to putting the new belt on you'll be lining up the timing marks again just like you did before.
TBH I wasn't intending on getting a new cambelt...
Post by: Andy on March 22, 2016, 12:42:13 pm
:surprised:You won't be refitting that belt, when it comes to putting the new belt on you'll be lining up the timing marks again just like you did before.
TBH I wasn't intending on getting a new cambelt...
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 12:45:16 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 12:55:39 pm
Take a read...fingers crossed :signLOL:
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 12:57:39 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 22, 2016, 01:13:59 pm
Have fun as I'm not being at work :doh:Are we referring to the bracket on the engine side and if so yes it is.
YayRemoving the cambelt and head should be easy compared to what you've already done, re-fitting is the harder part :happy2:
Ha oh really? What are the difficult bits of refitting?
I think I remember someone saying about the engine mount being a pain to remove @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) or @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) maybe?
Cambelt timing can scare people off but on VW engines that's easier because you've only got to line up one cam pulley. You've then got to make sure that everything is 100% clean between the head to block mounting faces and correctly torque the head down.
If you've got the time, tools and patience there's no reason why you can't do it, it just about confidence.
I had a cambelt snap 200 miles into a running in period on my old Integrale 16 valve after paying someone else to rebuild the engine. That suffered bent valves and I repaired it myself in the end and I'm no mechanic, all I did was towed it to a garage to fit a new cambelt because back then I was scared of cambelts having had 1 jump and destroy the engine and then another one snap :grin:
Ok. Ill keep telling myself I can do it then!
I’m sure im getting ahead of myself again but…
Say I remove head this weekend. Valves have bent and I decide to get a new cylinder head. I refit everything and all ready to go. I turn on engine and theres still an oil pressure warning light. I will have wasted a lot of time and money and probably would have been better off going for a new engine to begin with.
I’m praying that it is just a new cylinder head as I think I might be able to remove and refit myself, and it will just be the cost of the new head, bolts, gaskets, coolant etc.
Really I think Id need to eliminate the oil pump, but that will mean dropping the sump again, and trying to get the balance shaft unit off (something I can’t find much info for). As I’ve mentioned plenty of times :ashamed: if the tensioner had proved the reason for the oil pressure message I would be confident in just replacing the cylinder head. But then again I don’t know the order of events in which the chain snapped so cant definitively rule the tensioner being the root of the problem out.
Bit of a mental battle im having here :signLOL: :thinking:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 01:43:28 pm
I think ill order this now
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-CT955-Petrol-Engine-Compression/dp/B000R9ZK5O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1458568769&sr=8-2&keywords=Compression+gauge (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-CT955-Petrol-Engine-Compression/dp/B000R9ZK5O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1458568769&sr=8-2&keywords=Compression+gauge)
And is this the correct tool for removing spark plugs? @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709)
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/sockets-accessories/laser-magnetic-spark-plug-socket-14mm (http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/sockets-accessories/laser-magnetic-spark-plug-socket-14mm)
So im just going to pull the belt of the exhaust cam pulley?
Post by: pudding on March 22, 2016, 02:02:25 pm
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5433708-2-0T-BPY-Camshaft-adjuster-Tensioner-and-chain-Installation (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5433708-2-0T-BPY-Camshaft-adjuster-Tensioner-and-chain-Installation)
Take a read...fingers crossed :signLOL:
Yeah that's what I thought. Chances are the inlet cam snapped round on spring pressure, thereby moving the valves out of harm's way. As it happened at such a low rpm, I think you'll be OK, but obviously you'll need to confirm that with a compression / leak down test. Although if it were me I'd just say F'ck it and start it and see what happens :grin:
If you were hammering round the track at 7000rpm and the chain snapped - totally different story!!!
Cam girdle is plate the rocker cover bolts to, it's a separate piece to the head casting. Undo that and the cams will lift right out.
Quite complex engines these for a 4 pot!
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 02:18:35 pm
So im just a bit confused about how the camshafts come out, from memory the camshafts go through the cylinder head at each end, so they wont just lift straight out?
I think ill order this now
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-CT955-Petrol-Engine-Compression/dp/B000R9ZK5O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1458568769&sr=8-2&keywords=Compression+gauge (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-CT955-Petrol-Engine-Compression/dp/B000R9ZK5O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1458568769&sr=8-2&keywords=Compression+gauge)
And is this the correct tool for removing spark plugs? @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709)
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/sockets-accessories/laser-magnetic-spark-plug-socket-14mm (http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/sockets-accessories/laser-magnetic-spark-plug-socket-14mm)
So im just going to pull the belt of the exhaust cam pulley?
Can you get me a photo of the head with the cam cover removed?
Normally you mark the cam caps (if they're not already marked) so that you know where each one went and their orientation and remove them carefully. Once they are removed you should be able to lift the cams out of the head. Being a tfsi engine that I'm not familiar with you may have to remove a few other bits and pieces.
Post by: pudding on March 22, 2016, 02:26:03 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fab70%2Ftowerguru81%2F100_0427.jpg&hash=45c4e45015e75239547c62b1511b07678459e7fc)
Like so.....
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Follethalb%2Fdtm%2FA4DTM16113033.jpg&hash=a8b25c3d5826b1899097ca6d48c7124a3db5eadf)
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 02:28:56 pm
Cam caps?
@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) ok well we can hope.. il remove the cams and look at the compression.
Any one clarify the tools I will order are correct? Both the gauge and the spark plug tool
Post by: pudding on March 22, 2016, 02:36:21 pm
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 03:09:45 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 22, 2016, 05:01:25 pm
Thinking about it, to remove the cam girdle il have to remove the cambelt as discussed. If I just slip this off, if the compression test comes back good, then surely I can just slip it back on provided it goes back in the same position? Then just time it up with new chain and tensioner and theoretically it should start.
Few questions – Once the cam girdle bolts are undone, will everything just pull up with it? Cam pulleys etc
-once the girdle comes off the cylinder head, do I leave that and everything else off ? (valve cover, cam cover etc) for the compression test?
Post by: Paulo P on March 22, 2016, 08:18:23 pm
Thinking about it, to remove the cam girdle il have to remove the cambelt as discussed. If I just slip this off, if the compression test comes back good, then surely I can just slip it back on provided it goes back in the same position? Then just time it up with new chain and tensioner and theoretically it should start.
Few questions – Once the cam girdle bolts are undone, will everything just pull up with it? Cam pulleys etc
-once the girdle comes off the cylinder head, do I leave that and everything else off ? (valve cover, cam cover etc) for the compression test?
Firstly do not consider re-using that belt, if you re-use that belt and it snaps a few months down the line you will be kicking yourself.
When you come to fit the belt you will have to time up the cam and crank again onto their marks, you can't take anything for granted and you'll have rotated the crank several times and removed that cam, nothing will remain in the same position.
To perform a compression test you won't need any of the covers on, that's the beauty of doing it this way because you're performing it mid strip down.
Post by: doylebros on March 22, 2016, 08:23:40 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 08:42:07 am
Thinking about it, to remove the cam girdle il have to remove the cambelt as discussed. If I just slip this off, if the compression test comes back good, then surely I can just slip it back on provided it goes back in the same position? Then just time it up with new chain and tensioner and theoretically it should start.
Few questions – Once the cam girdle bolts are undone, will everything just pull up with it? Cam pulleys etc
-once the girdle comes off the cylinder head, do I leave that and everything else off ? (valve cover, cam cover etc) for the compression test?
Firstly do not consider re-using that belt, if you re-use that belt and it snaps a few months down the line you will be kicking yourself.
When you come to fit the belt you will have to time up the cam and crank again onto their marks, you can't take anything for granted and you'll have rotated the crank several times and removed that cam, nothing will remain in the same position.
To perform a compression test you won't need any of the covers on, that's the beauty of doing it this way because you're performing it mid strip down.
Hm. In that case would it be worth doing the compression test with the cams out? If I leave the cams in, time it back up with the new chain and tensioner and then do the compression test by hand cranking it, that would give me the same result wouldn't it? Plus then if I had good compression then the cambelt would still be on, and I wouldn't need to do all the work of refitting and buying a new cambelt.
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 09:20:46 am
Post by: rich83 on March 23, 2016, 10:07:03 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 11:28:12 am
I’ll fit the the chain and tensioner tonight, and do the compression test with it timed up by turning the crank by hand. Fingers crossed I can get the chain on without removing the adjustor.
I think ill struggle with getting the inline camshaft to line up correctly. Am I right in thinking that once the notches are vertical in the camshaft and the cam locking tool fits in snug then that will be correctly timed for me to put the chain on? When I was turning the inlet cam by hand with the tool, with the valve cover off to observe the camshaft, I could only turn it once, because at the back of the engine there is a metal line in the way (I think coolant?) this pipe does bend but I don’t want to push it too far incase it snaps. Have to have a play tonight
Post by: dazza on March 23, 2016, 11:48:23 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 11:54:24 am
Post by: pudding on March 23, 2016, 12:23:14 pm
With the cams lined up, the tool will drop in and lock them together, but there is still some movement. On the adjuster there is a peg which slots into a keyway on the exhaust cam, so it can only go on one way. You pop the chain round both sprockets so that the peg on the adjuster is near as dammit lined up, then if necessary, tweak the inlet cam slightly until the peg locates. Done. If you can't get the adjuster onto the exhaust cam, keep removing it and playing with the chain position until you do it. Took me a couple of attempts.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 01:43:55 pm
I've got a mate coming tonight to help out, mainly to hold the bit in the adjustor whilst I turn it.
Ive just wondered in to town to Halfords to see if my spark plug socket had turned up yet but it hadn't - however, ive bought just a standard 10mm spark plug socket without the long reach. It has a 1/2" drive so I will be able to put it on an extender to get it to reach. It's not magnetic, instead it has the rubber grommet. Matey in Halfords said that if it didn't work I could bring it back to them, but I cant see why it shouldn't work. Also on £4.50 compared to the £14 one I had ordered.
Post by: rich83 on March 23, 2016, 03:06:53 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 03:10:17 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 23, 2016, 03:12:45 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 03:14:36 pm
lol... makes 0% sense but hey!! :signLOL:Yes that's what they call a spark plug socket 10mm :stupid: people.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 06:33:42 pm
Just tried to turn the camshaft to so I could put the cam locking tool in to tske the adjuster off but the camshaft will only turn once???
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 06:53:58 pm
So fell at the first hurdle :signLOL:Turn in the other way.
Just tried to turn the camshaft to so I could put the cam locking tool in to tske the adjuster off but the camshaft will only turn once???
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 06:55:42 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 06:58:02 pm
Yeah I think I was turning it the right way, but I did try the other way as well with same result. It really doesn't want to go. I was thinking perhaps a piston in a cylinder is stopping it?Is it just the one cam you're turning?. try give it a bit of force... turn the other one back to align them up?.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 07:23:04 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 07:31:40 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 07:42:46 pm
Although, because im turning the inlet cam, and the crankshaft isnt turning, perhaps its not turning becauese one piston is stopping it. As in if the crankshaft was turning then maybe it would turn...
It turned once and snapped down so the camlobes on one cylinder were pointing down. It was trying to turn past this point (bringing the lobes up of the valves) and down on another that it wouldn't turn.any.more
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 08:01:55 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 08:21:31 pm
Once the inlet camshaft is vertical and correct, keep turning the crankshaft untill the exhaust camshaft is lined up and I can get the cam chain on (providing the crankshaft and camshaft are at tdc) that make sense?
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 08:24:15 pm
Or just go straight to removing the.cylinder head
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 08:54:15 pm
Try turning the crank and setting the cams as this should do the trick.
cam girdle off to take cams out :happy2:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 09:04:21 pm
I think I need to remove the girdle (can only see six bolts) and then possibly remove the cambelt pulley off the camshaft?
Post by: r5gtt on March 23, 2016, 09:29:04 pm
maybe you've spun it all wrong and need to spin the crank and inlet around again.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 10:42:41 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 23, 2016, 11:03:20 pm
I think it's time to take the cylinder head off. What do you think @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153)
Post by: doylebros on March 24, 2016, 07:17:04 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 08:07:05 am
Post by: Dan_FR on March 24, 2016, 08:12:52 am
Will try and have a catchup of the last few pages later today
Post by: r5gtt on March 24, 2016, 08:30:23 am
level meaning half way up the bore.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 08:38:20 am
My only worry will be setting the timing up once I've managed to turn the inlet cam.
Say I manage to get the inlet cam so the notches are vertical. Then I will need to rotate the engine at the crankshaft again so that both the crankshaft and exhaust camshaft are at TDC again before refitting tensioner and chain. Will this not push the inlet cam I've set at TDC out of timing again? Will the notches being vertical mean that the inlet cam is at TDC on cylinder 1, in timing with the other shafts? Surely the notches will be vertical twice for every rotation, potentially I could set the crank and exhaust camshaft at TDC, and the inlet with the notches vertical, but its not correctly timed?
on a side note, I had my mate with me yesterday so tried to loosen the adjustor off whilst I had someone to hold the bit in the adjustor. I took the inlet cam notch out of the tool and inserted it so it was just holding the exhaust cam. Then my mate held the bit in the adjustor whilst I tried to pull it.
Unfortunately it has bent one of the bolts that secures the cam locking tool into the cylinder head. I think I will just need to replace the bolt with a similar bolt so not that big of a deal. I think it bent because I didn't have the other notch installed pushing against the inlet cam.
I think I could just use one of the valve cover bolts, and then replace it later?
Post by: r5gtt on March 24, 2016, 08:44:59 am
Replace the bolt with a similar one bolt a problem.
I recall doing this as I was in a similar situ like yours. rover 400 springs to mind.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 10:26:26 am
Perhaps I should just CUT the cambelt off, remove the camshafts and do the compression test with no camshafts in.
Then I guess ill have to start removing the head (after confirmation of bent valves), and then fit a new cambelt etc once I have a new head.
Post by: r5gtt on March 24, 2016, 10:50:33 am
Post by: dazza on March 24, 2016, 11:26:01 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 11:32:48 am
Then once ive got the inlet cam notches vertical, keep turning the crankshaft back to TDC, check the the exhaust camshaft is at TDC as well.
This works in theory, but once the inlet is at TDC then continuing to turn the crankshaft might push the inlet out of TDC
Post by: dazza on March 24, 2016, 11:37:12 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 12:26:08 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 08:35:21 pm
It seems like the tools prongs need to be further apart, although I know others have used it ok. It must be because the chain isnt on.
Post by: r5gtt on March 24, 2016, 08:41:48 pm
231834627004
Post by: doylebros on March 24, 2016, 09:12:23 pm
I rotated the crankshaft and got the inlet to spin all the way round. I lined it up by eye and put the tool in, although the tool still had some play forwards and backwards. I tried turning the adjustor bolt but it just rotates the camshaft, even with the cam locking tool.When you were pulling down on the power bar if the tool has failed the way I expect you'll of felt it give when you were applying the force.
It seems like the tools prongs need to be further apart, although I know others have used it ok. It must be because the chain isnt on.
Take the locking tool back out - Look at the tool and see if it's bent the pins on the locking bar so that they've been force apart,if so all is not lost .
Post by: Dan_FR on March 24, 2016, 09:39:31 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 24, 2016, 09:43:24 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 09:45:33 pm
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) im trying to time it up and fit the new chain to do a compression test on it. Any other way of getting the chain on?
Also just wondering how il get the timing exactlY right. It like I could get it a tooth or even a couple of tooth out annd it wouldn't be obvious
Post by: doylebros on March 24, 2016, 09:58:10 pm
Remember this time have someone helping,pushing against the bit, cause this time it will be your knuckles as the tool will not splay.
Post by: dazza on March 24, 2016, 10:03:39 pm
Chin up mate your doing well.
Post by: doylebros on March 24, 2016, 10:04:57 pm
The problems your having is common even when doing this chain job as a service replacement request - quality tooling especially item7 bolt removal bit is a must.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 24, 2016, 11:19:10 pm
As the inlet cam is resting, the notches look slightly off tdc, as well as not looking completely parallel to the exhaust cam at tdc. If I turn the inlet cam slightly clockwise (normally anti clockwise I think) the tool gets more snug with no play. I then tightened the bolts of the tool to try and hold the inlet cam from springing back, but it didn't hold it and I had a mm or two of play again.
When I was turning the crankshaft I asked my mate to listen carefully for any noises from inside the engine as I turned it slowly, it was smooth and I think fairly consistent all the way round a few times and no noises like before with the broken chain. Am I wrong in thinking this could be a good thing in terms of piston to valve contact or damage elsewhere
Girlfriends going shopping tomorrow so I can work all day on it, want to make some progress :signLOL: on a side note I passed my test a year ago today and bought the car three days before - could do with some of that positive thinking now.. :signLOL:
Post by: DANBOY66 on March 25, 2016, 06:03:46 am
cylinder 1 has no piston what so ever and the valves are bent
so sorry i don't have a head for you know
Post by: Pesky jones on March 25, 2016, 10:09:50 am
I might go down the route of grtting mine repaired.
I need to get some work done today. I need to get this compression test done one way or another. I think I might take the camshafts out to do it seeing as getting thr adjster off isnt working.
Post by: DANBOY66 on March 25, 2016, 11:00:20 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 25, 2016, 11:00:31 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 25, 2016, 06:42:24 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 25, 2016, 09:20:25 pm
Pesky what's new buddy?. have you blocked me from messages as ive noticed everyone who messages me has their name along side but yours says guest?. :confused:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 25, 2016, 10:01:58 pm
Nothing new, I think I need to do the comoression test with the timing set up eg chain and tensiomer on so I need to get that tool working. Im thinking I might see if any welders are open tomorrow morning and go get the pins welded in place and try to remove the adjustor again.
Post by: r5gtt on March 25, 2016, 10:12:16 pm
Shi** man things haven't gone well but you know what?, you've done extremely well for a beginner I can assure you. not many would try what you're doing and I wish I could help by being there but time doesn't permit me to do this.
I'm off out the country next week and have to work the day before I go which is a beech as I wanted to relax too.
Hopefully you'll have it sorted soon mate :smiley: there are some good knowledgeable guys on here to guide you along.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 25, 2016, 11:01:49 pm
I want to get the cam chain on and do the compression test without further costs- coolant, cambelt, bolts etc. Although ill need to buy them at some point if.the head needs to come off
Hopefully I can get this tool working. Still not sure about timing it back up but ill worry about that once I get the adjuster bolt off
Post by: r5gtt on March 25, 2016, 11:06:44 pm
Yeah don't waste yur money in any further bits till you've dot the compression test done and car firing up and running first. :happy2:
Off to bed as travelling to Birmingham to see mum and family before jetting out of the country for 10 days.
good night and good luck.
Post by: r5gtt on March 26, 2016, 08:02:16 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 26, 2016, 08:10:06 pm
Well ive provisionally sold my mountain bike :sad1: :surprised: so now I have an extra 600 which will hopefully go on head rebuild with valves, stretcher bolts, head gasket, cam chain gasket, coolant, cam belt and waterpump, and most likely a new tensioner and cam chain. Any other costs?
So no luck with getting the tool welded?
When I've tried with new bolts they've failed as the internal pin thread has been stretched beyond usefulness and required me to drill them out and tap to next size up.
Post by: dazza on March 26, 2016, 08:27:28 pm
I feel like contacting sealey this tool was not cheap. Could have bought the original for a little more, think i was to impatient.
So no luck with getting the tool welded?
When I've tried with new bolts they've failed as the internal pin thread has been stretched beyond usefulness and required me to drill them out and tap to next size up.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-VSE6171-Replacement-Chain-In-Service/dp/B00DTELWUG?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
Post by: r5gtt on March 26, 2016, 08:31:26 pm
@dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) I would if it's damaged and they should give you a new one FOC as I did with something I bought from draper and it went faulty a tm year in and they didn't even argue. :smiley:I feel like contacting sealey this tool was not cheap. Could have bought the original for a little more, think i was to impatient.
So no luck with getting the tool welded?
When I've tried with new bolts they've failed as the internal pin thread has been stretched beyond usefulness and required me to drill them out and tap to next size up.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-VSE6171-Replacement-Chain-In-Service/dp/B00DTELWUG?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
Post by: doylebros on March 26, 2016, 09:12:26 pm
From past experience with Sealey Dazza they will replace it longs its returned damaged in its failed state but if you weld it will last - these chains are getting added to owners list of jobs which isn't a problem cause they let you know when to change it cause the rattle when hot is time for change.I feel like contacting sealey this tool was not cheap. Could have bought the original for a little more, think i was to impatient.
So no luck with getting the tool welded?
When I've tried with new bolts they've failed as the internal pin thread has been stretched beyond usefulness and required me to drill them out and tap to next size up.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-VSE6171-Replacement-Chain-In-Service/dp/B00DTELWUG?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
Post by: dazza on March 26, 2016, 09:41:15 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 26, 2016, 09:50:51 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 26, 2016, 10:55:56 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 26, 2016, 11:03:21 pm
Im a little lost here, I think its the screw from the top that has bent, I was just going to get the tool welded on Tuesday (earliest I can do it) and go from there. Are we saying that the two prongs themselves have bent? Ill have a good look tomorrow but I think its the two little screws.
Your correct, it's the two bolts have stretched allowing the pins to move out of position thus letting the camshaft move past its locked position.
You'll find the threads in the pins pulled and will fail again with the new bolts only this time with a bit knuckle rash.
If you buy two bolt for trying the tool again they have to be of high grade, check if there stamped with the grading number.
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/materials-and-grades/bolt-grade-chart.aspx
Post by: Pesky jones on March 26, 2016, 11:06:01 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 26, 2016, 11:11:36 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 26, 2016, 11:55:12 pm
I can try source to little bolts to do it if needs be
Post by: doylebros on March 27, 2016, 10:20:35 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 10:31:29 am
Post by: vRSAlex on March 27, 2016, 11:51:35 am
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 11:56:53 am
I've got a few heads. I could build one up ready for you to just bolt it down to the block?
Pm'd
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 02:22:00 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160327_141607_zpsbrcrburi.jpg&hash=6aa845fa03fab0e2f9f32e691591550326841296)
Video showing pins and theyre play withiut bolts. Thinking I can ask the welder to make sure they are welded as far apart from each other as possible
Post by: doylebros on March 27, 2016, 02:33:25 pm
Pleased to see you've got the opportunity of a complete head so things are looking up.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 03:02:37 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 03:04:08 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2016, 03:30:05 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 03:31:55 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2016, 03:47:17 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 27, 2016, 03:58:00 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 27, 2016, 04:43:13 pm
Where do you get thre genuine tool from?Dealer will sell you the tool - TPS depending which branch they to can supply the tool.
Post by: doylebros on March 27, 2016, 04:48:10 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 04:48:26 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 27, 2016, 04:50:14 pm
I'm sure Alex's head offer will be a good deal and most likely you will need it but if I was you I would stick to your original plan and continue your testes to confirm what damage you have in case the answer is an engine.
What would indicate a new.engine? Taking the head.off and looking at the pistons? When turning the crankshaft the exhaust cam turns nicely and it is all smooth and quiet.
Post by: doylebros on March 27, 2016, 04:57:15 pm
Post by: dazza on March 27, 2016, 04:59:39 pm
Bet it will be ok when welded.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T10252-Original-VAG-Nockenwellenfixierung-2-0l-FSI-Motor-Zahnriemen-T-10252-/281969988838?hash=item41a6b894e6:g:dsUAAOSwP~tW6uoS
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 01:33:37 pm
Fingers crossed and ill report back tonight
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 02:15:13 pm
Ive measured as 98.1 ish mm and its straight all the way down
If anyone has a working genuine tool they could measue for me that'd be great. At least that way ill know if its the tool or me :stupid: :signLOL: @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) you bought a genuine one didnt you?
Post by: pudding on March 29, 2016, 02:25:36 pm
Not surprised yours bent. Even with the genuine one things move around quite a lot!
Post by: dazza on March 29, 2016, 02:28:28 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 02:47:55 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 02:56:59 pm
You should be able to tell it if fits snug or not.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 03:08:00 pm
Someone on the fb group has said dont use a welded tool to hold the cam to undo adjustor as it will twist the camshaft :surprised: :scared:
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 03:11:22 pm
Get it in and get the adjustor bolt off. :party:
+1 to the above Pesky - progress time.
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 03:13:34 pm
Well the thing is I dont think my exhaust cam is in exactly the right postion as it is resting... I think I have to use the wrench to turn it against the springs so the notches in the camshafts are bang on parallel and then once ive got that then try turn the adjustor. Think im going to have a few hands available!Two many cooks - on with it, if you can align the shafts to get the tool in that's all you need.
Someone on the fb group has said dont use a welded tool to hold the cam to undo adjustor as it will twist the camshaft :surprised: :scared:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 06:41:02 pm
The camshaft turned slightly to begin with but then the cam locking tool stopped it and there was kind of a crack as the bolt loosened. I think it was just the siund of the tension being released tbh
Post by: Andy on March 29, 2016, 06:43:23 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 07:03:16 pm
Well the tool works! Hopefully havnt damaged anything.All normal and well done :happy2:
The camshaft turned slightly to begin with but then the cam locking tool stopped it and there was kind of a crack as the bolt loosened. I think it was just the siund of the tension being released tbh
Post by: GTI8v on March 29, 2016, 07:08:17 pm
Good on you for perservering and giving it a go, I for one would have given up ages ago and phoned my son, but he's a mechanic who is sh1t hot with anything engine. :signLOL:
Post by: dazza on March 29, 2016, 07:27:53 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 07:30:00 pm
Post by: dazza on March 29, 2016, 07:47:03 pm
Hook the chain over the inlet cam then put the adjustor into the chain and try and get the pin in the adjustor to pop into the notch on the cam. I got paranoid and marked the chain i also tried moving the adjustor one tooth each way of what i marked and could not get it on.
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 07:47:19 pm
^^^^ beat me to it.
Post by: dazza on March 29, 2016, 07:49:55 pm
I think you do the tensioner first (leaving the pin in) and then fit the chain and adjuster... bolt it up and remove the pin from the tensioner.I forgot to mention the pin though :ashamed:
^^^^ beat me to it.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 07:51:24 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 07:52:38 pm
If all goes to plan you'll be ready for releasing of the tensioner locking pin and torque all items up and ready for baring over by hand.
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 08:02:45 pm
Here's the torque values
Torque specs are the following All are ft lbs.
Cam adjuster bolt is 15 lbs plus additional 1/8 turn
Tensioner bolt is 7 lbs
Valve cover bolts are 7 lbs.
Cam chain case cover is 7 lbs
hpfp bolts are 7lbs
banjo bolt on fuel pump is 13 lbs
union nut on hpfp is 18 lbs
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 08:24:34 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 08:37:02 pm
what wrench are you guys using to get 7ftlbs and 15 ftlbs?This is the modern version you'll just have to use a conversion table
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LASER-3451-1-4-DRIVE-TORQUE-WRENCH-5-25Nm/391398669487?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36244%26meid%3D6d5d4c275d68435ab09d3f33c3d47738%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D181815408818
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 08:40:34 pm
Hope its nothing serious!
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 08:40:57 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 08:41:56 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 08:44:39 pm
Is the ribe bit for the adjuster 1/2" drive? If so ill need an 1/4 to 1/2" adpater?
:happy2:
You'll change to a bar with I/2 drive to do the angle.
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 08:45:52 pm
:happy2:dIs the ribe bit for the adjuster 1/2" drive? If so ill need an 1/4 to 1/2" adpater?
:happy2:
And this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neilson-Torque-Angle-Guage-Head-BoltsTighten-Degrees-1-2-Drive-Tighten-2A-/281061180737?hash=item41708d4541:g:UWAAAOxy-WxTE1pR
Sorry pesky.... :signLOL:
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 08:48:05 pm
:happy2:dIs the ribe bit for the adjuster 1/2" drive? If so ill need an 1/4 to 1/2" adpater?
:happy2:
And this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neilson-Torque-Angle-Guage-Head-BoltsTighten-Degrees-1-2-Drive-Tighten-2A-/281061180737?hash=item41708d4541:g:UWAAAOxy-WxTE1pR
Sorry pesky.... :signLOL:
I just mark it up by eye pull to my mark - got the angle gauge(different make) just find it gets in the way.
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 08:49:48 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 08:50:43 pm
Im starting to think somethings wrong with the timing, I can't get the adjuster back on! Ive marked it and found a reference point and its got to be less then a mm off. I don't really get it, unless it is on! It doesnt feel like its sitting right though. Im thinking I might line it up so its nearly in, take the cam locking tool out and adjut the inlet camshaft slightl with the wrench to get it in.Before you move the locking tool just put the other tool on the inlet cam to help you first they can be tricky.
Hope its nothing serious!
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 08:51:45 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 08:52:49 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 08:53:42 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 08:57:08 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 08:58:04 pm
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 09:00:38 pm
Remember what I told you about oil leaks be prepared to make sure it's nice and clean on top of the gearbox area etc before using the starter.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 09:06:08 pm
Wont have time to put everything back together tonight because.I want to do it slowly and like you say clean everything
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 09:09:37 pm
I was just going to leave it as it is, and compression test by hand?
Wont have time to put everything back together tonight because.I want to do it slowly and like you say clean everything
Wise move - remember to put the battery on charge for your return.
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 09:46:37 pm
Am I wrong in thinking this is a good thing? Am I geyting my hopes up too early :signLOL:
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 09:53:21 pm
You'll enjoy your tea tonight :happy2:
Post by: Dan_FR on March 29, 2016, 10:05:05 pm
That said - 30 psi is very very low, a healthy engine would be 5-6 times that figure
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 10:07:42 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 10:09:45 pm
14.7*9.8~= 144psi
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 10:16:56 pm
Oh :sad1: I had it in my head that 2 bar was roughly right. Perhaps it will be better with the starter motor? Is there any hope in the fact that they were all roughly the same?To tell you the truth Pesky I've never checked the value when hand cranking - if it does two full turns and it realigns with all my marks I go straight to the starter but don't I don't let it start!
Then I check if the oil light goes out and listen for mechanical noises I don't expect.
Then I go for cylinder values - personally I expect you to have to remove the head as I expect you'll get it running but rough in its running. However, that lets plenty evaluation to be undertaken and a realistic repair cost to be achieved.
Once again well done as a previous poster stated plenty would have given up by now :happy2:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 10:23:30 pm
Well.... atmospheric is about 14.7 PSI. Mulitple that by the compression ratio of your engine... 9.8?
14.7*9.8~= 144psi
You've lost me, is that a good or a bad thing for me :signLOL:
Oh :sad1: I had it in my head that 2 bar was roughly right. Perhaps it will be better with the starter motor? Is there any hope in the fact that they were all roughly the same?To tell you the truth Pesky I've never checked the value when hand cranking - if it does two full turns and it realigns with all my marks I go straight to the starter but don't I don't let it start!
Then I check if the oil light goes out and listen for mechanical noises I don't expect.
Then I go for cylinder values - personally I expect you to have to remove the head as I expect you'll get it running but rough in its running. However, that lets plenty evaluation to be undertaken and a realistic repair cost to be achieved.
Once again well done as a previous poster stated plenty would have given up by now :happy2:
Thanks mate appreciate it. I don't want to let it beat me :signLOL: I guess we'll see...
Next step put everything back together and compression test with starter motor, but with fuel pump fuse removed?
Post by: doylebros on March 29, 2016, 10:32:39 pm
Over 100psi and 10% of each other will mean it will run until tomorrow :driver:
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 10:34:09 pm
But I think thats roughly how you calculate what PSI you should be seeing on a compression test
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 10:45:06 pm
:signLOL: I dont know.
But I think thats roughly how you calculate what PSI you should be seeing on a compression test
Oh, so like @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) says I should be seeing 150ish plus.
I'm just hoping that with the starter motor it makes that.
We'll see tomorrow if the girlfriend lets me have another evening :signLOL:
Once again thanks for everyone's help, another bit of progress :happy2:
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 10:46:58 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 29, 2016, 10:52:20 pm
As doylebros said two full turns and if all lines up then crank it and yes with fuel fuse out if that makes you feel any better. if the plugs are out which they all should be when carrying out a compression test it won't start anyways :doh:
Post by: Pesky jones on March 29, 2016, 11:06:35 pm
As @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) says it doesnt sound like its very common, so hopefully proper compression test will yield better results
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2016, 11:09:19 pm
Post by: r5gtt on March 30, 2016, 12:02:09 am
I'll be reading this on the plane tomorrow night so make it good pesky :smiley:
Post by: doylebros on March 31, 2016, 07:15:53 pm
Post by: BenJ on March 31, 2016, 08:21:04 pm
Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
Post by: Pesky jones on March 31, 2016, 10:39:05 pm
Cam chain cover back on, rocker cover back on (took a little persuading with the rear hoses) and pcv back on.
But then this happened, I hardly touched it, honest!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160331_213714_zpsuzu65abw.jpg&hash=ea51d4c154062388e4007efb57b947b8aad0f66f)
Anyone know the part number, and how I go about attaching a new one at the lower connection below the manifold?
Post by: Dan_FR on March 31, 2016, 10:48:23 pm
Has the same type of squeeze to release type clip on the engine block although it is fiddly to get to. New pipe is a lot more flexible and can be routed around the HPFP pipes and fitted into place fairly easily
Post by: Pesky jones on March 31, 2016, 10:51:15 pm
Any tips on fitting new one?
Post by: Dan_FR on March 31, 2016, 10:54:28 pm
If you can take the top end of the engine apart, this pipe will be a doddle!
Post by: rich83 on March 31, 2016, 10:59:16 pm
double check it
Post by: Pesky jones on March 31, 2016, 11:21:02 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 31, 2016, 11:22:25 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on March 31, 2016, 11:24:07 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on March 31, 2016, 11:24:29 pm
Post by: rich83 on March 31, 2016, 11:27:06 pm
Sorry rich not sure I follow? What about it?
How did you re-attach it? OEM clip?
Post by: Pesky jones on March 31, 2016, 11:28:49 pm
I was.on that parts catalogue dan but it looks different and also gives a different part number. Think richs part number is the right one
Post by: Pesky jones on March 31, 2016, 11:46:58 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 01, 2016, 12:09:29 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 01, 2016, 09:36:09 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 02, 2016, 11:30:11 am
Mates picking me up and we're going to get the new one. Look at the block connection! Sludge plus wierd brown rocks
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160402_112139_zpslevfdqmv.jpg&hash=59853a2ce02617482b8e402a537875b4c8fde6cb)
Post by: Pesky jones on April 02, 2016, 02:46:59 pm
Anyone know thE fuel pump fuse? Is it fuel pump relay or fuel pump lift?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 02, 2016, 03:50:37 pm
Started it and it runs!!!!! Didnt sound bad tbh, only thing was after about 30 seconds it started to smoke. Smelt like burning rubber. No idea what it could be...?
Il post a video in a second
Post by: Pesky jones on April 02, 2016, 04:05:25 pm
Post by: Andy on April 02, 2016, 04:09:13 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 02, 2016, 04:15:31 pm
I know it's a bit premature but I'd like to say a massive thank you to @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) for helping to get me to this point. I'm sure I've missed others but don't think I'm not incredibly grateful, I am!
Now to find out where the smoke is coming from...
Post by: rich83 on April 02, 2016, 04:23:23 pm
Post by: Paulo P on April 02, 2016, 04:49:11 pm
Post by: dazza on April 02, 2016, 05:01:58 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 02, 2016, 06:45:30 pm
If from the engine bay you have to remove all excess oil from the strip down first from all areas then recheck if you got any leaks cam box cover is common.
Post by: Dan_FR on April 02, 2016, 06:46:11 pm
Where is the smoke coming from? Engine bay or exhaust?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 02, 2016, 06:48:46 pm
I will go over it carefully and check for oil specifically at the back where the smoke is coming from.
And then go over it with vcds
Post by: doylebros on April 02, 2016, 06:56:02 pm
If it's the cam box cover take it off and look at the gasket in case you nipped it then retorque as per the cover sequence.
Post by: GTI8v on April 02, 2016, 07:01:19 pm
Post by: r5gtt on April 02, 2016, 07:49:28 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 02, 2016, 08:36:47 pm
Do you mean the vaccum pump cover on the chain cover or the cam chain cover itself? Il check there but it looked like it was coming from the area behind maf sensor.
Post by: doylebros on April 02, 2016, 09:59:52 pm
Ive got a big can of aerosol disc brake cleaner, but I bought it for my mountain bike, hopefully powerfull enough.The most common problem it's the cambox cover or Rocker cover with the rubber gasket and bolts with little seals - to many people over tighten them and distort the gasket but clean it all before you remove any thing and try not to get it to hot till you find if you have any leaks - little bit of oil makes a lot of smoke.
Do you mean the vaccum pump cover on the chain cover or the cam chain cover itself? Il check there but it looked like it was coming from the area behind maf sensor.
Post by: callis on April 03, 2016, 09:16:36 am
Post by: pudding on April 03, 2016, 10:38:35 am
Yeah the smoke is a bit of oil spillage onto the exhaust manifold I'd say. Should clear up eventually.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 11:45:53 am
But first, ill try find the reason for the smoke and isolate it. If its a leaking gasket or hose, this will get addressed when I do the above work.
What do people think about this plan? I didnt see an oil pressure light, but the bonnet was open and so it was displaying that on he clocks so I dont know if the warning would overide this.
One thing that is on my mind is the rear breather hose, the hose itself, had started to delaminate on the interior circumference a little bit ( probably a bit rough when removing it :ashamed: Im thinking of replacing the hose as well... not sure how easy it will be to do this?
Also got it in my head that after ive done all this work I should get a good health check from a reputable garage, possible with @vRSAlex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981) what do you think
Post by: doylebros on April 03, 2016, 12:15:27 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 04:00:12 pm
Post by: BenJ on April 03, 2016, 04:36:55 pm
Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 04:44:46 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160403_164055_zpsfha0sblg.jpg&hash=ee34decb0ad02afd2874d400bee939494b6da4c9)
The description just says brandnew chain and tensioner nvere used.
The colour of the plastic on the tensioner is a darker yellow then the oem tensioner I think
Post by: doylebros on April 03, 2016, 05:03:40 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 03, 2016, 05:06:09 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 05:25:30 pm
Looks gen. to me
Completely different.colour to the one you posted a few pages back.
Will leave for now as advised and just search for an oil leak
Post by: rich83 on April 03, 2016, 05:41:45 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 06:39:30 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 03, 2016, 06:43:58 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fi%2F171716925648-0-1%2Fs-l1000.jpg&hash=fc99d775e9520ed6204a1d9a80bfeef9f49b4a87)
Post by: doylebros on April 03, 2016, 07:04:47 pm
This has nothing to do with the newly fitted tensioner just monitoring why the original chain failed. :thinking:
You need to make sure this type of problem isn't coming your way http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,104715.0.html
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 07:17:32 pm
Will record it again and listen carefully to the engine. If theres no smoke I will leave it idling for five ir ten minutes scanning with vcds and watching for misfires
Ive seen other examples of the tensioner failing, ususally the plastic (although none resulted in chain snaping) and I think that might be down to wear and age, possibly design.
Perhaps the metal and plastic parts of the bottom guide of my tensioner snapped, then one of those got caught in one of the sprockets and snapped the chain. Doesnt really explain the oil pressure message however...
Post by: doylebros on April 03, 2016, 07:20:30 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 07:22:39 pm
Post by: BenJ on April 03, 2016, 08:57:31 pm
Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
Post by: Pesky jones on April 03, 2016, 08:59:02 pm
Not out the woods just yet, but fingers crossed
Post by: Pesky jones on April 04, 2016, 11:16:25 pm
Also, beneath the gearbox and the area around there has got oil all over it although im not sure if this is from the work ive done up untill now. The smoke also didn't come from this area. The rocker cover doesn't seem to be leaking, and the hoses are ok.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 11:38:59 am
If there’s smoke again, and its coming from the same place (behind the MAF sensor) would I be able to run the engine without the engine cover on, using a pair of tights over the air intake again?
If there’s no smoke im going to leave it idling for ten minutes (watching it) and then scan it with VCDS. Providing no serious fault codes and no oil pressure light, im going to take it for a gentle drive. Is there anything in particular I should log whilst doing this? I’ll use misfire counter. I don’t want to put it under strain yet so cant do any boost logs, but anything other to log to see if its performing as it should do?
Thanks
Post by: DANBOY66 on April 05, 2016, 12:13:23 pm
if you took it to a garage they would run it without the cover to try and see the problem sometimes as enthusiast we over think things :grin: :grin:
Post by: Paulo P on April 05, 2016, 12:17:11 pm
i would not put tights over it just run it with no filter it will be fine
I was going to suggest this too, I wouldn't want to risk sucking them into the turbo :grin: In your garage it's fine to run it with no filter :happy2:
Post by: Dan_FR on April 05, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
When driving with VCDS, log the misfire counter and also check block 91 (or possibly 93 - can never remember which one it is) to make sure the timing is correct.
I would also recommend having the oil pressure properly checked using an old fashioned gauge plumbed in (they can go in through the oil pressure switch) and not just relying on the low pressure switch to trigger the warning light, which only comes on under when you're facing terminal damage
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 02:14:27 pm
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) I could get one installed on the dash couldnt I? Might do some miles first then get one installed.
Post by: Dan_FR on April 05, 2016, 02:48:03 pm
Unfortunately I doubt it's as straightforward on the TFSI as there's a lot less room, but I would definitely recommend getting it done regardless
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 02:55:42 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 05, 2016, 02:56:46 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 03:05:19 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 05, 2016, 03:10:42 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 05:52:56 pm
Tuesday,05,April,2016,17:26:10:32264
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
Data version: 20120401
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis Type: 1K0
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 37 42 44 46 52 56 62 72
VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ5W221234 Mileage: 176430km/109628miles
00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: Malfunction 0010
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 A HW: 1K0 907 115 A
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI G00 0070
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZ7Z0E1710698
Coding: 040300031C070160
Shop #: WSC 00096 210 88179
VCID: 244DF249E7C0DE9
3 Faults Found:
005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: -40.0°C
Temperature: -40.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V
005425 - Camshaft Timing Adjustment
P1531 - 004 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 194 /min
Load: 71.7 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 11.0°C
Temperature: 12.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
000256 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0100 - 004 - Supply Voltage
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 11.0°C
Temperature: 12.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.938 V
Readiness: 0110 0100
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 02E-300-0xx.lbl
Part No SW: 02E 300 042 Q HW: 02E 927 770 AD
Component: GSG DSG 070 0925
Revision: 00007000 Serial number: 00000505090160
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 01287 785 00200
VCID: 2143FB5DF8D2CB1
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 379 K
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0104
Coding: 0004738
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 3A712C317544B89
2 Faults Found:
01276 - ABS Hydraulic Pump (V64)
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 1K0-907-044.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 044 AG
Component: ClimatronicPQ35 066 0505
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 6CDDDA694F90D69
2 Faults Found:
01810 - Actuating Motor for Temperature Flap; Right (V159)
000 - - - Intermittent
01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71)
000 - -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
Part No SW: 3C8 937 049 AB HW: 3C8 937 049 AB
Component: Bordnetz-SG H57 3204
Revision: 00H57000 Serial number: 00000003205826
Coding: E58F8F2700041500471400001400000000087F075C000100000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00096 210 71415
VCID: 71E3CB1D68B23B1
Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 B Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer VW350 012 0401
Coding: 00065493
Shop #: WSC 00096
Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 M Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
Component: RegenLichtSens 005 0605
Coding: 00218142
Shop #: WSC 00096
1 Fault Found:
02403 - Terminal 15 for Interior
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 154
Mileage: 171528 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
ON
Voltage: 11.80 V
ON
ON
OFF
OFF
OFF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 C HW: 1K0 909 605 C
Component: 34 AIRBAG VW8 013 2100
Revision: 02013000 Serial number: 0033HD07GEB+
Coding: 0013108
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 2C5D1A698F10169
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 G HW: 1K0 953 549 G
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 521 0050
Coding: 0012142
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 36693801415C5C9
Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: Lenkradmodul 007 0050
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 1K6 920 970 E
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 0810
Coding: 0007403
Shop #: WSC 01246 210 127802
VCID: 32610411AD34409
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 1K0-907-530.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 E HW: 1K0 907 951
Component: Gateway H11 0110
Revision: 11 Serial number: 29001052230E9F
Coding: 3F3F0348070003
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 2953E37D80E2031
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No: 1K6 920 970 E
Component: IMMO VDD 0810
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 32610411AD34409
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 1T0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 1T0 919 887 D
Component: Navigation 0421
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 438F51D5028EF91
1 Fault Found:
02731 - CD Reading Error
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0168
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 30650E19A338729
1 Fault Found:
00104 - Fuel Tank Lid Unlock Button (E319)
007 - Short to Ground
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
Part No: 1K2 909 144 H
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.12 1502
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 31630B1DA8327B1
1 Fault Found:
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
000 - -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 AR HW: 1K0 959 433 AR
Component: KSG PQ35 G2 010 0101
Revision: 00010000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 189002085103087F2D048F0FF008DFC690A040
Shop #: WSC 00096 210 88179
VCID: 80051ED9D318A29
Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H02 1301
Part No: 1K0 907 719 B
Component: Neigungssensor 004 0003
Part No: 1K0 951 177 A
Component: Innenraumueberw.005 0202
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0172
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 31630B1DA8327B1
1 Fault Found:
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5)
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1T0-035-095.lbl
Part No: 1T0 035 095
Component: Radio 0421
Coding: 0001402
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: EBDF5975CA9E511
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 703 C
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 06 0217
Coding: 0000016
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 30650E19A338729
1 Fault Found:
00934 - Electric Window Motor; Rear Left (V26)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 704 C
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 06 0217
Coding: 0000016
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 31630B1DA8327B1
No fault code found.
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 05:55:28 pm
But the engine doesnt sound very healthy, under throttle it sounds fine, but as soon as its idling theres this really loud horrible noise and shakes the whole car! You can see the car shaking. In this video its really obvious.
I alsp looked at misfires when idling and it didnt have any
Post by: doylebros on April 05, 2016, 05:59:40 pm
Do you have the airbox/engine cover fitted?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 06:12:11 pm
Im wondering whether to reverse it out the garage and drive a little?
Post by: doylebros on April 05, 2016, 06:22:12 pm
Yeah I do have the engine cover on in that video. I did a few times with and without just to test. I think you can hear the noise best in that video but il upload another with the bonnet open. Before, the engine shook but not enough to shake the whole car.If there's no oil leaks just move it out of the garage to see if it cuts out at idle - then do the standard full lock left / full lock right and straight ahead whilst moving slowly to cancel various warning lights - leave running and rescan the vehicle cancel all DTCs and post that scan up.
Im wondering whether to reverse it out the garage and drive a little?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 07:22:53 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 05, 2016, 07:31:20 pm
Where could I look for air leaks?
That action is after you've got the system rebuilt as it should be and your scan shows a more expected set of results but any leaks will normally only be in the areas you've disturbed.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 07:40:56 pm
The maf fault will go with the cover on.
Not sure what the battery fault is, perhaps since it was disconnected its thrown the fault.
Will drive it out the garage slowly and re scan and post back.
Perhaps I should do the pvc.test with the dipstick?
Post by: doylebros on April 05, 2016, 07:50:59 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 09:00:03 pm
sounds terrible! I think its still smoking a little bit as well because it smells like burning.
I rescanned it - here's the fault codes. I also logged misfires and it was missfiring so much! See this little log
Tuesday,05,April,2016,20:42:29:32264
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
Data version: 20120401
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:42:15
57 Misfire Sum Counter
ignore the MAF fault :ashamed: forgot to reconnect it
Tuesday,05,April,2016,20:40:57:32264
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
Data version: 20120401
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis Type: 1K0
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 37 42 44 46 52 56 62 72
VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ5W221234 Mileage: 176430km/109628miles
00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: Malfunction 0010
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 A HW: 1K0 907 115 A
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI G00 0070
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZ7Z0E1710698
Coding: 040300031C070160
Shop #: WSC 00096 210 88179
VCID: 244DF249E7C0DE9
3 Faults Found:
005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: -40.0°C
Temperature: -40.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar
Voltage: 0.000 V
005425 - Camshaft Timing Adjustment
P1531 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 194 /min
Load: 71.7 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 11.0°C
Temperature: 12.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.414 V
000256 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0100 - 004 - Supply Voltage - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 28.0°C
Temperature: 25.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.811 V
Readiness: 0110 0100
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 02E-300-0xx.lbl
Part No SW: 02E 300 042 Q HW: 02E 927 770 AD
Component: GSG DSG 070 0925
Revision: 00007000 Serial number: 00000505090160
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 01287 785 00200
VCID: 2143FB5DF8D2CB1
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 379 K
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0104
Coding: 0004738
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 3A712C317544B89
2 Faults Found:
01276 - ABS Hydraulic Pump (V64)
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 1K0-907-044.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 044 AG
Component: ClimatronicPQ35 066 0505
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 6CDDDA694F90D69
2 Faults Found:
01810 - Actuating Motor for Temperature Flap; Right (V159)
000 - - - Intermittent
01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71)
000 - -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
Part No SW: 3C8 937 049 AB HW: 3C8 937 049 AB
Component: Bordnetz-SG H57 3204
Revision: 00H57000 Serial number: 00000003205826
Coding: E58F8F2700041500471400001400000000087F075C000100000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00096 210 71415
VCID: 71E3CB1D68B23B1
Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 B Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer VW350 012 0401
Coding: 00065493
Shop #: WSC 00096
Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 M Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
Component: RegenLichtSens 005 0605
Coding: 00218142
Shop #: WSC 00096
1 Fault Found:
02403 - Terminal 15 for Interior
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 154
Mileage: 171528 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
ON
Voltage: 11.80 V
ON
ON
OFF
OFF
OFF
---------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 1T0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 1T0 919 887 D
Component: Navigation 0421
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 438F51D5028EF91
1 Fault Found:
02731 - CD Reading Error
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0168
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 30650E19A338729
1 Fault Found:
00104 - Fuel Tank Lid Unlock Button (E319)
007 - Short
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0172
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 31630B1DA8327B1
1 Fault Found:
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5)
012 - Electrical
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 703 C
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 06 0217
Coding: 0000016
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 30650E19A338729
1 Fault Found:
00934 - Electric Window Motor; Rear Left (V26)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by: doylebros on April 05, 2016, 09:20:30 pm
Can you check the fuse box in the engine bay (next to the battery) for bad connection to the fuse-able links since you've been working in that area.
As for the running what temperature have you on the gauge?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 09:31:01 pm
I havnt checked the temp on vcds but I glanced at the coolant gauge before turning it off and it was around seventy.
Ill order a n205 valve tomorrow then..hopefully this improves the idling.
What do you mean fuseable links? Just check wll the fuses are in properley.
I checked all the pvc hoses, front and rear and they're all seated properley
Post by: doylebros on April 05, 2016, 09:42:47 pm
The electrical warnings puzzle me (terminal 30 & the ABS) would be nice to remove those two so if you go into the individual modules and check the fault codes and clear them in there.
I've had some serious rough running caused by simple air leaks so let's not lose heart just yet.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 09:46:46 pm
Hmm ok well ill replace the n205 and go from there. Could air leaks lead to misfires?
Theres also definitely an oil leak from the vaccum pump cover on to the gearbox. Ill have to replace the gasket for this as well I think.
Post by: doylebros on April 05, 2016, 09:55:05 pm
Il check them. I removed and replaced the fuel pump relay and another fuse I thought it could have been. I think I replaced them properly though. The abs fault didnt come up when I first scanned it a while back, strange.That's more like the lion we know - fix the faults you know and report back - you didn't disconnect the alternator connections did you?
Hmm ok well ill replace the n205 and go from there. Could air leaks lead to misfires?
Theres also definitely an oil leak from the vaccum pump cover on to the gearbox. Ill have to replace the gasket for this as well I think.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 10:16:01 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 11:23:13 pm
Vacuum pump seal 06D145117A
Item two here. Hopefully that stops the leak on the gearbox.
http://partscatalog.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1731&ein=2008&f=625&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=014504651&bf=14510&hgug=145&ug=45&parent_id=2852547 (http://partscatalog.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1731&ein=2008&f=625&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=014504651&bf=14510&hgug=145&ug=45&parent_id=2852547)
Timing chain cover gasket 06D103121B
Item 17 here
http://partscatalog.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1731&ein=2008&f=625&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=010355420&bf=10355&hgug=103&ug=03&parent_id=2847675 (http://partscatalog.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1731&ein=2008&f=625&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=010355420&bf=10355&hgug=103&ug=03&parent_id=2847675)
N2505 valve 06F109257C
Item (26) here
http://partscatalog.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1731&ein=2008&f=625&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=010355420&bf=10355&hgug=103&ug=03&parent_id=2847675 (http://partscatalog.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw&number=1714&set=1731&ein=2008&f=625&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=010355420&bf=10355&hgug=103&ug=03&parent_id=2847675)
That's what I know is broken so fix that first. I'm worried the noise or misfiring could be something like the timings out or crankshaft bearings damaged or something major. I've thought about all the places I've been in the engine and can't think of anywhere that would cause the rough idle :thinking:
Post by: rich83 on April 05, 2016, 11:26:09 pm
Contact Andre Worthington on the TFSI group on facbook... IIRC he can get them cheapish
Post by: Pesky jones on April 05, 2016, 11:27:05 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 05, 2016, 11:28:28 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 09:31:22 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160405_202119_zpsbd0l3gf9.jpg&hash=001b69a933d0d3faac0de0cd5e225134ffc95905)
Hoepfully the vaccum pump gasket will solve this.
I don't need to remove the valve cover to remove just the cam chain cover do I? Just HPFP...
Post by: pudding on April 06, 2016, 10:02:28 am
Plug in your VCDS and see what the cam position at idle is. Measuring block 91 iirc. Should be 28 degs (or KW, german for degrees).
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 10:04:53 am
I guess I could just log them all and check the numbers are all close to each other
The n205 valve is arriving tomorrow, shall I log the blocks after replacing this, will it make a difference?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 11:09:07 am
Post by: rich83 on April 06, 2016, 11:09:59 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 11:14:22 am
Post by: pudding on April 06, 2016, 11:14:59 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 11:20:51 am
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/090-098.html (http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/090-098.html)
Theres quite a few blocks there to measure. Which should I do? If I just go on adv measuring blocks and select them all, I wont have to log anything, I can just read them live, right? Same with misfires on the cylinders. Think I can select each cylinder to see.
Post by: Nasir on April 06, 2016, 11:24:08 am
Post by: Dan_FR on April 06, 2016, 11:31:47 am
Post by: rich83 on April 06, 2016, 11:41:39 am
Block 91 is what you need - I always remember it's early 90's but its pretty obvious when you browse through them. You get a specified and an actual number, and they should match within a degree or so.
Thats for the cam timing yeah?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 11:47:00 am
Post by: pudding on April 06, 2016, 12:06:42 pm
Yeah. 91 does 1 camshaft, and 92 does the other. I assume 91 is inlet camshaft @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) ? I think the n205 valve affects the inlet camshaft timing somehow?
Yep. The cam adjuster has 3 oil passages in it. Advance, 'neutral' and retard. The job of the N205 is to divert the oil into the relevant passage when commanded by the ECU.
There is no exhaust cam timing on this engine. The later TSI has adjustment on both.
Weird really as you normally have some kind of exhaust timing for EGR purposes.
Anyway, get measuring! If 91 shows 28 degs for actual and requested, that ain't the cause of the misfire I'm afraid. Replace the valve anyway as it's not well if it's being fault coded.
Post by: rich83 on April 06, 2016, 12:38:21 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 12:56:10 pm
Yeah. 91 does 1 camshaft, and 92 does the other. I assume 91 is inlet camshaft @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) ? I think the n205 valve affects the inlet camshaft timing somehow?
Yep. The cam adjuster has 3 oil passages in it. Advance, 'neutral' and retard. The job of the N205 is to divert the oil into the relevant passage when commanded by the ECU.
There is no exhaust cam timing on this engine. The later TSI has adjustment on both.
Weird really as you normally have some kind of exhaust timing for EGR purposes.
Anyway, get measuring! If 91 shows 28 degs for actual and requested, that ain't the cause of the misfire I'm afraid. Replace the valve anyway as it's not well if it's being fault coded.
Ok. Well you say im afraid but surely the timing being correct woukd be a good thing? Then its misfiring because of something else, hopefully simpler. Coils or spaek plugs eg?
But yeah I will measure tonight and fit the n205 tomorrow and measure again
Post by: Dan_FR on April 06, 2016, 01:07:50 pm
Let's not forget that this hasn't been ruled out yet and is still a very real possibility given the car is misfiring and running badly at idle
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 01:39:17 pm
It wouldn't be plugs or coils, it would be valve damage and pulling the head off.
Let's not forget that this hasn't been ruled out yet and is still a very real possibility given the car is misfiring and running badly at idle
Oh, so the compression test didn't rule that out? If the timing is correct then could there still be a possibility of valve damage or is the only way to rule out valve damage to take the head off?
Post by: Dan_FR on April 06, 2016, 01:48:50 pm
Rule everything else out first. Hopefully the N205 will sort it....
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 02:05:34 pm
Personally I think there will be damage and struggle to see how there couldn't be after trying to start the car with a snapped chain, not ot mention everything else. But I am a bit of a pessimist, so..... :signLOL:
Rule everything else out first. Hopefully the N205 will sort it....
Oh I thought the compression test had ruled that out :sad1: as 150psi across all four cylinders so I thought that the cylinder and valve arrangement would have been correct with no leaks.
I will try and fix the other issues first.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 04:03:36 pm
Post by: pudding on April 06, 2016, 04:12:21 pm
You'd expect at least 1 cylinder to be significantly down on the others if there was valve damage. Even bending an intake valve a couple of degrees off centre is enough to drop huge amounts of compression.
I still have no idea how that cam adjuster works.... witchcraft
It's pretty easy to understand how it works when you've got it all in bits tbh. This is no 'VTEC yo' thing though. All it does is adjust the valve open and close times, not the lift and lobe duration like the VTEC does. VTEC is done for power. This system is done for efficiency.
All you need to picture in your mind is when oil is fed into a chamber inside the adjuster, it twists relative to the (fixed) exhaust cam and because the inlet and exhaust sprockets are connected with a chain, if the adjuster on the exhaust cam moves 10 degrees, the chain therefore pulls the intake cam round 10 degrees. Feed oil into the other chamber and the adjuster moves the opposite way. The tensioner in the middle keeps the chain taught during the retard and advance movements.
Maybe this cut-away drawing might explain better!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_7amQXm5_8yU%2FS8Visy2TfbI%2FAAAAAAAAAvY%2FKxezUcsksoM%2Fs1600%2F11_04.gif&hash=389b900f6792188e5cd08b302709fff910e97a65)
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 04:26:20 pm
The same compression reading across all 4 cylinders doesn't really suggest valve damage to me, but they are low. Should be around 190psi on a new or very healthy used engine. Consistency across all 4 is the most important thing though.
You'd expect at least 1 cylinder to be significantly down on the others if there was valve damage. Even bending an intake valve a couple of degrees off centre is enough to drop huge amounts of compression.
Right, how did you know it should be around 190? I thought our compression ratio was 10:1 so atmospheric pressure at 14.7 x 10 = 147, pretty much perfect for my 150psi reading.
I might do another compression test once the n205 is fitted.
Still don't know what fuse to remove for the HPFP, last time I just removed a couple I thought might be related
Post by: ady-gti on April 06, 2016, 04:29:49 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 06, 2016, 05:13:49 pm
All you need to picture in your mind is when oil is fed into a chamber inside the adjuster, it twists relative to the (fixed) exhaust cam and because the inlet and exhaust sprockets are connected with a chain, if the adjuster on the exhaust cam moves 10 degrees, the chain therefore pulls the intake cam round 10 degrees. Feed oil into the other chamber and the adjuster moves the opposite way. The tensioner in the middle keeps the chain taught during the retard and advance movements.
Maybe this cut-away drawing might explain better!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_7amQXm5_8yU%2FS8Visy2TfbI%2FAAAAAAAAAvY%2FKxezUcsksoM%2Fs1600%2F11_04.gif&hash=389b900f6792188e5cd08b302709fff910e97a65)
I get it... thanks.
Post by: pudding on April 06, 2016, 05:21:35 pm
The same compression reading across all 4 cylinders doesn't really suggest valve damage to me, but they are low. Should be around 190psi on a new or very healthy used engine. Consistency across all 4 is the most important thing though.
You'd expect at least 1 cylinder to be significantly down on the others if there was valve damage. Even bending an intake valve a couple of degrees off centre is enough to drop huge amounts of compression.
Right, how did you know it should be around 190? I thought our compression ratio was 10:1 so atmospheric pressure at 14.7 x 10 = 147, pretty much perfect for my 150psi reading.
I might do another compression test once the n205 is fitted.
Still don't know what fuse to remove for the HPFP, last time I just removed a couple I thought might be related
Just numbers I've seen others quote on forums, for example, last but one post - http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121672
I'm not sure the math works in that way tbh. Even R32s with 11.5 compression x 14.5 = 166psi, but they always measure around 190psi on a gauge.
Post by: doylebros on April 06, 2016, 05:41:13 pm
If there's any vacuum leaks you get rough running and running it as you have, you'll get the problems your showing.
So keep it simple, put back all the bits and redo another video and do your VCDS checks for the timing values.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 05:54:03 pm
Do you mean remove valve cover and cam chain chain cover and build it back up from there, just making sure 110% this time?
Ill check timing tonight, so hopefully I dont have to remove the chain and tensioner. Ill also check misfires, clear fault codes and re scan and then report back.
I have already ordered the n205 as well as the vaccum pump bolts (1 currently missing) and the cam chain cover gasket...
Do you know the fuse to pull for the hpfp @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) ? Just incase I pulled the wrong one
Post by: rich83 on April 06, 2016, 06:07:38 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 06, 2016, 06:09:20 pm
Reclean away any oil spillage from past running.
Take nothing apart as you know what the leak is and the above bolt will cure it - Build it back up as it was before the strip down.
Simple steps so you know each stage is done right.
A fully charged battery to prevent unnecessary electrical DTCs codes.
Do an autoscan and clear all DTCs so you know where your starting from. Then rerun it and do your VCDS testes for timing and report back.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 06:25:11 pm
although when I removed the other two bolts to take the vacuum pump off the cover (to look for plastic bits) I might have put the two bolts back in different holes by mistake. Therfore potentially leaving the third hole that had a bolt in it previously without a bolt which makes sense because I never noticed a pool of oil before.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 07:45:57 pm
Its strange, it almost sounds perfect on start up for about twnety seconds, then gets progressively worse. After twi minutes its really bad.
Post by: Dan_FR on April 06, 2016, 07:54:34 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 08:00:30 pm
I dont mind trying to do the timing again but I dont see how I went so wrong the first time. A difference of 30 odd degrees seems like a lot. I thought I got it spot on! Its a shame there arent marks like the crankshaft and exhaust cam pulley.
Post by: Dan_FR on April 06, 2016, 08:06:30 pm
30 odd degrees is only a tooth or two out
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 08:17:38 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 06, 2016, 08:20:55 pm
If I was you I would leave the strip down for rechecking the timing till after you've tried the valve, as said above. If it shows no improvement it's back to checking the timing but you'll be much quicker and more confident and may even enjoy it.
My thoughts are its only one tooth out but tomorrow will tell us.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 06, 2016, 09:04:11 pm
Here's the video from start up today
You can see near the end of the video when I rev it the noise goes and also the engine completely stops shaking!
Post by: Pesky jones on April 07, 2016, 08:59:16 am
After 20 seconds or so the cam advance changes, and the cold start routine designed to superheat the catalytic converter stops..... Sounds like the N205 is working?
Its an open circuit fault, needs replacing if you are getting this. Once replaced, check block 091 again and see if the reading has improved
30 odd degrees is only a tooth or two out
I'm really hoping the valve stops the noise and corrects the timing issue!
Post by: Dan_FR on April 07, 2016, 09:15:22 am
VCDS will tell you for sure whether the cam adjuster is doing anything. To be honest I didn't see what fault codes you'd picked up previously - too many pages to go through! Let us know what happens when you get an N205 on there. Might be worth going to a few scrapyards to find one as I'm pretty sure its the same part on most if not all 2.0 TFSI lump
Typically I always see this thread when I'm in work and can never view any media :signLOL:
Post by: pudding on April 07, 2016, 09:31:11 am
So :sad1: the timings well out 28 requested and -3.5/4 on actual! How could it be this far out? Is it worth me trying the timing again? I dont know how much better id get it the second time around.
Its strange, it almost sounds perfect on start up for about twnety seconds, then gets progressively worse. After twi minutes its really bad.
Yep, the cam adjuster is not advancing. It's not possible to get the physical timing that far out. The cam locking tool simply won't allow that much misalignment. 30 degrees is a lot more than one tooth off.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 07, 2016, 09:52:19 am
Something can still work, even if not fully or correctly yet still flag a fault, if the resistance is too high or too low. It could be other changes rather than just the N205 that affect the idle, as during the same cold start procedure, there is also a period of dual fuel injection where the injector fires twice.... again aimed at warming up the cat which could be affecting this.
VCDS will tell you for sure whether the cam adjuster is doing anything. To be honest I didn't see what fault codes you'd picked up previously - too many pages to go through! Let us know what happens when you get an N205 on there. Might be worth going to a few scrapyards to find one as I'm pretty sure its the same part on most if not all 2.0 TFSI lump
Typically I always see this thread when I'm in work and can never view any media :signLOL:
I'm picking one up from TPS today at lunch, didn't think about scrapyards. At least Ill know I have an operational one! Will let you know
Yep, the cam adjuster is not advancing. It's not possible to get the physical timing that far out. The cam locking tool simply won't allow that much misalignment. 30 degrees is a lot more than one tooth off.
I'm not sure I completely understand, correct me if i'm wrong - its not possible for me to get the physical timing 30 degrees out - so it must be the current n205 not doing its job properly? But if 30 degrees is more than one tooth, then I must have got the physical timing wrong? Surely the adjustor cant do its job if its a tooth or more out of timing?
Post by: pudding on April 07, 2016, 10:20:35 am
I'm not sure I completely understand, correct me if i'm wrong - its not possible for me to get the physical timing 30 degrees out - so it must be the current n205 not doing its job properly? But if 30 degrees is more than one tooth, then I must have got the physical timing wrong? Surely the adjustor cant do its job if its a tooth or more out of timing?
Yep, the N205 isn't advancing the cam.
I very much doubt it's a physical timing issue. What does measuring block 93 say? You're looking for around -2KW.
Post by: GTI8v on April 07, 2016, 08:49:00 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 07, 2016, 09:03:40 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 07, 2016, 09:11:15 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 07, 2016, 10:00:22 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 07, 2016, 10:11:06 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 07, 2016, 11:17:37 pm
Im debating whether to give the timing another shot. Thoughts? The only thing is that as @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) says it shouldn't be possible to get the adjustment that far out (-3.5kw vs 28kw) so why is it?
Why does the engine run differently for a minute before changing? I would have thought that it would run consistently bad throughout.
Post by: Dan_FR on April 08, 2016, 06:15:05 am
Check the belt timing marks first of all and ensure that is right, easy enough to get it a tooth out. As i have already said, the cam timing isn't 'out' as far as you think. Don't know how you've done it, but it is and needs resolving before you go any further
On a cold star, a multitude of running conditions change during the first few minutes during the cold start routine. Cam timing changes, dual fuel injection etc.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 08, 2016, 08:28:37 am
By belt do you mean cambelt? So check the crankshaft and camshaft timing reference marks, insert the locking tool, remove chain and try timing it again?
Post by: pudding on April 08, 2016, 09:24:39 am
No afraid its not good :sad1:
The car sounded okish for a little longer, but the revs were about 1200 for a while and then they die down to about 750 and the horrible noise starts again :fighting:
I scanned it after running it and it still didnt return any fault codes. I then measured block 91 and got the same -3.5 kw.
Dont know what to do next to be honest, just uploading a video of it running toady...
What was the the water temperature of the engine at the time? The cam might not start advancing until it's warmed up? I will data log the behaviour of mine over the weekend, from stone cold to hot.
What is the reading in block 93? That will give you your static cam position. If your physical timing was so far out to cause problems, the ECU would normally throw a "Cam / crank correlation error" or "Retard / advance - set point not reached". Try running through the cam adjuster's adaptation. I think it's block 92 or 94. You enable the test and it should cycle through from -33 to + 30ish. If it doesn't, the cam adjustment definitely isn't working.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 08, 2016, 09:40:21 am
Could you explain a little more about the test and how to do it please?
Someone on the fb group has said theirs run exactly the same as mine is and it was because their cam chain timing was out. I think I must have got it wrong somehow.
I think I should strip it back, mark the existing position of chain and then re install the chain slightly differently and hope for the best? Annoying that I wont know there and then but I dont think I have many other options
Plus it.gives me a chance to try to stop the oil leak.
Post by: pudding on April 08, 2016, 10:05:25 am
I don't see how you could have messed the timing up tbh. I literally just aligned the marks on the cambelt end, stuck the cam locking tool in, removed everything, slapped new chain on, job done. Whilst doing it, I really couldn't see how it could get messed up as the cams can't move enough to get it so far off, maybe half or 1 tooth off max, and the cam adjuster can only go on one way.
To do the cam adjustment adaptation I think you go into basic settings, put 94 (or could be 92, can't remember) and hit Go or something. Been ages since I did an adaptation. Have a look on Ross Tech's site.
If you can't get it up to temp, it could be quite hard to test but I'll check what my cam advance is from cold.
Post by: dazza on April 08, 2016, 10:10:39 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 08, 2016, 10:23:14 am
Hopefully this could be my problem?
Post by: Dan_FR on April 08, 2016, 11:21:16 am
Post by: pudding on April 08, 2016, 02:38:43 pm
Thanks pudding that'd be great. The person on the fb group had his engine running exactly the same as mine. He got a reading of 2.5 actual adjustment and he said he wasnt even a tooth off. He said he put the locking tool in, but turned and held the inlet cam clockwise when tightening the bolt for the VVT unit / adjustor.
Hopefully this could be my problem?
What's this FB group? I might join it :smiley:
The procedure for the cam chain installation is to get the cam adjuster peg as close to alignment on the exhaust cam's key as possible, then tweak the inlet cam round slightly (with that 2 pronged tool thing) until it engages. I didn't do that. Either I was lucky and it just engaged straight away or I didn't do it properly. Either way, the end result seems to be in spec, so therefore doing what this chap did doesn't appear to be essential. Dunno really. Mine runs fine so I guess I got away with it!
Measuring block 93 I think is the more telling one. If it's miles adrift of what we know to be normal (0 to -2KW) then that should in theory point to the timing being off.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 08, 2016, 02:47:17 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 10:12:27 am
not sure about block 93, heres the log
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb558%2Ftriellymtb%2Flog_zpsierknxxw.png&hash=1f0cd8a6f0a94d7a29c17e38ced2103a7cdf46c8)
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 01:11:03 pm
Anyway is it possible to remove the adjustor bolt without the tool?
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 01:36:13 pm
Just see if you can use the inlet cam spanner to allow the locking tool to locate.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 01:40:58 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 01:41:54 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 01:44:30 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 01:48:52 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_134624_zpsozs8xedp.jpg&hash=42faef50d6bb19eb07ee9eb229c1dc7daa18110a)
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 01:53:42 pm
Yes, although with the cambelt pulley no exhaust cam its hard to see if bang on because of the angle of the phone.
Explain the above I'm not understanding you.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 01:56:48 pm
Looking at the camshafts the notches dont lool parallel to me
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 02:02:08 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 02:06:33 pm
And an H7 head torch http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-LENSER-Headlamp-H7R-7498-RECHARGEABLE-Head-torch-170LM-New-Model-/201513733730?hash=item2eeb278e62:g:GC8AAOSwUV9WocUg
To help me in those areas.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 02:13:11 pm
I can get the crankshaft at tdc 100%
Can I not just keep turning the crankshat a little bit at a time and try to fit the tool in?
I think everything is in the right place, a.k.a the chain and belt are on the right teeth etc because the guy who had the same problem as me had similar readings in regard to block 91, and his was on the right teeth, the adjustor bolt just needed to be tightened whilst turning and holding the inlet cam towards the back of the engine
Post by: vRSAlex on April 09, 2016, 02:16:52 pm
I dont think I can remove the timing belt cover to be honest. I have to drain coolant, remove engine mounts and a lot lot more. Is this to make sure that the cambelt hasnt slipped?
I can get the crankshaft at tdc 100%
Can I not just keep turning the crankshat a little bit at a time and try to fit the tool in?
I think everything is in the right place, a.k.a the chain and belt are on the right teeth etc because the guy who had the same problem as me had similar readings in regard to block 91, and his was on the right teeth, the adjustor bolt just needed to be tightened whilst turning and holding the inlet cam towards the back of the engine
The curse of the AXX one piece belt cover!
You need will need to check the belt timing first. Mirrors will help see the cam marks. Then you will know if the inlet cam is a tooth out which going off the pic it looks to be a tooth forwards.
AXX when warmish should read around 45% and 24KW/24KW.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 02:24:07 pm
If it is a tooth out (it looks like the notches arent parallel which supports this) how do I remove the chain if I cant get the tool in because its a tooth out?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 02:39:14 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_142838_zpsuapbn0dr.jpg&hash=bf8c45b4f5d164a27e0c7242fdcf8462a4bc351e)
In this pic it looks corectly timed
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_143147_zpsugznodm0.jpg&hash=109cee33f598178e52530fb6560641999b7da5af)
But then if I move the phone up or down
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_143211_zpsv3pmrern.jpg&hash=0accc585fed558c0c646a503585c8ce51349e87a)
I think it looks most perpendicular in the second photo, which makes me think it is timed correctly
Post by: vRSAlex on April 09, 2016, 02:44:43 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 02:45:40 pm
whilst turning the inlet cam anticlockwise I could push the locking tool in place with a little bit of force and it is now in correctly.
Il now remove the adjustor and start refitting the chain?
Post by: vRSAlex on April 09, 2016, 02:46:29 pm
UPDATE.
whilst turning the inlet cam anticlockwise I could push the locking tool in place with a little bit of force and it is now in correctly.
Il now remove the adjustor and start refitting the chain?
Sorted.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 03:05:21 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 03:14:00 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 03:19:17 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 03:32:49 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 03:33:18 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_153003_zpsannt1rtw.jpg&hash=fad65cafac995c8860d4c43b6dba1572f6b22217)
Note the tip ex on the sprocket and the chain
The guide pin is still there doylebros
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 03:39:30 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 03:40:54 pm
All positive though.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 03:43:04 pm
I checked the adjustor tab that slots into exhaust camshaft and it is fine
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 04:01:08 pm
I thought id replace the o ring on the vacuum pump to see if that was the oil leak. When I I took it off the cam chain cover, it had no o ring at all! See before and after pictures for with and without o ring
Youll also see that when I was tightening the bolt for the vaccum pump back on to the cam chain cover its broke the bolt hole of the vaccum pump off. New vacuum pump :(
I think im just going to put this one back on with two bolts (it only had two before anyway! Ones always been missing) and then replace the pump at a later date.
Thoughts?
Without o ring
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_155518_zps3swkvqqu.jpg&hash=2cfe2c4846d622b9687eccc070bdb11586b2d202)
With o ring
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_155542_zpsbhxh5rnz.jpg&hash=81bea103166a64c94d79715555076c72c8b0ab26)
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 04:25:07 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 04:29:06 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20160409_160636_zps8ljiard2.jpg&hash=60bc8a0dc9c4568e89aa37c2a4e1d35ffdbad2d2)
Il guess well see if it stops leaking!
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 04:34:43 pm
When tightening those types of housing just a little on each bolt or the result is what you got.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 05:56:17 pm
Post by: callis on April 09, 2016, 05:58:52 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 06:11:53 pm
@doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) item 2 looks like it sits inbetween the cam chain cover and the vacuum pump like how ive installed it.
Also, I first thought the vacuum pump was missing a bolt when I had removed the cam chain cover, but it wasnt, the reason is because the bolt that goes there actually hold the wire loom bracket as well, so htis bolt was stored with the bracket if that makes sense
Post by: vRSAlex on April 09, 2016, 06:22:31 pm
Looks like the vac pump is cracked too. The pressure of trying to fit another o-ring would have caused stress on it.
I have a few vac pumps here with o-ring so don't fit another.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 06:28:02 pm
Would it be ok to do this, just to log the timing, and then I wont drive it, ill buy a vacuum off you, then fit that when it arrives?
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 06:45:05 pm
If you run it you'll suffer from oil leaks most likely but it's vacuum leaks wil cause misfire issues etc - Rather than rushing recheck all your work or you'll end up with more problems then start it.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 06:50:08 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 06:53:45 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 07:37:43 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 07:54:33 pm
When your ready for testing "Don't forget turn the engine over by hand two full turns" before going anywhere near that key.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 08:37:31 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 08:56:46 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 09:00:30 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 09:04:00 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 09:11:58 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on April 09, 2016, 09:16:34 pm
Very lucky man not to have damaged anything. :happy2:
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 09:18:37 pm
Tomorrow the engine bay needs all excess oil removed before further testing, especially the top of the gear box, as it will have pools of oil in the casting webs, which will fool you after a test drive thinking you've got issues.
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 09:19:58 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 10:10:17 pm
Yes, I owe everyone in the thread a massive thankyou, some especially. Without the forum I wouldn't have had a clue where to start. Very gratefull.
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 10:48:26 pm
I feel it shows if your keen enough there's help and support from fellow enthusiasts to help members undertake a job which would never be normally contemplated by them.
So if Dazza or another mod thinks the same may be it will be added for Pesky's determination!
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 10:58:17 pm
Heres the video of the start up. Upon watching the video, the engine doesnt sound as good as it does in real life. It ran consistently for about 15 minutes. I think im nearly there, just got to watch out for leaks as doylebros says!
Post by: vRSAlex on April 09, 2016, 11:03:01 pm
No specified is still 28 however actual is 35. Is it that big of a deal? I dont fancy doing all this again only for it to potentially end up worse.
Yes, I owe everyone in the thread a massive thankyou, some especially. Without the forum I wouldn't have had a clue where to start. Very gratefull.
It's still on cold start. Will be fine when warm.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 11:05:21 pm
No specified is still 28 however actual is 35. Is it that big of a deal? I dont fancy doing all this again only for it to potentially end up worse.
Yes, I owe everyone in the thread a massive thankyou, some especially. Without the forum I wouldn't have had a clue where to start. Very gratefull.
It's still on cold start. Will be fine when warm.
Hmm I probably took these readings five minutes into running. It would be warm by then wouldnt it? Unless its to do with my inline stat problem (long time to get to temp) next job...
Post by: vRSAlex on April 09, 2016, 11:07:16 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2016, 11:08:36 pm
Let's see how it responds under load once you've done all your checks,testes,scans and given the engine a chance to reset a few values.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 09, 2016, 11:10:18 pm
Alex, pm'd you about the vacuum pump
Post by: dazza on April 10, 2016, 10:16:28 am
When you DIY your cambelt change to the two piece belt cover.
Post by: Andy on April 10, 2016, 11:11:57 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 10, 2016, 06:32:20 pm
Im honestly over the moon, couldnt have done it without everyones help I cant thank you guys enough :happy2:
Post by: rich83 on April 10, 2016, 06:34:30 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2016, 06:36:01 pm
Well done :congrats:
Post by: Andy on April 10, 2016, 07:07:37 pm
Post by: fab5freddy on April 10, 2016, 07:43:04 pm
Well done Pesky, great effort,i've been following this daily hoping you get to the bottom of it.
To John, Dan, Dazza and all the lads who helped him along, your a credit to the forum :notworthy:
Post by: callis on April 10, 2016, 07:59:50 pm
Post by: dazza on April 10, 2016, 08:20:05 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2016, 08:28:12 pm
Well done mate! :notworthy:
What's your thoughts on this request Dazza?
I think there's plenty educational aspects in this thread and is worth adding to this how to thread list http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52731.0.html
Post by: dazza on April 10, 2016, 08:33:51 pm
Yep i think it should go in. Will let Tom pick a title for it as i have no idea.
What's your thoughts on this request Dazza?
I think there's plenty educational aspects in this thread and is worth adding to this how to thread list http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52731.0.html
Any AXX owners get your cam chains/tensioners changed if you haven't already.
Post by: Dan_FR on April 10, 2016, 08:47:18 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2016, 08:47:34 pm
Yep i think it should go in. Will let Tom pick a title for it as i have no idea.
What's your thoughts on this request Dazza?
I think there's plenty educational aspects in this thread and is worth adding to this how to thread list http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52731.0.html
Any AXX owners get your cam chains/tensioners changed if you haven't already.
12,000 views :driver:
Post by: Pesky jones on April 10, 2016, 11:05:17 pm
To John, Dan, Dazza and all the lads who helped him along, your a credit to the forum :notworthy:
Too right! Theres a fair few names missing from there as well. Without the forum the car wouldnt be fixed, id be a lot poorer and lot less happy! Thats just a fact.
Yep i think it should go in. Will let Tom pick a title for it as i have no idea.
What's your thoughts on this request Dazza?
I think there's plenty educational aspects in this thread and is worth adding to this how to thread list http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52731.0.html
Any AXX owners get your cam chains/tensioners changed if you haven't already.
I dont really know - cam chain failure? Sounds a bit boring and I dont think it does it justice - but it is accurate :signLOL: if anyone can suggest a better title please do!
I procrastinated and this is the result, if your cam chain is noisier then it should be, or even high mileage, get it done!
More news - checked block 91 today with the engine warm and the specified value was 24kw (think @vRSAlex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981) mentioned this is the correct specified value for axx engines) and my actual value fluctuated between 23.5 & 24.5kw :grin: :happy2:
I havnt solved the oil leak yet however, need a new vacuum pump. It is pooling in.the gearbox cast webs, however it never seems to fill up more then the same amount regardless of how long it is left.
But thats a small issue and pales in significance compared to the timing values, the engine running nicely, no fault codes, no horrible noises, no misfires etc etc.
I owe this forum big time!
Post by: rich83 on April 11, 2016, 12:33:20 am
Post by: r5gtt on April 11, 2016, 12:34:51 am
R5
Post by: pudding on April 11, 2016, 10:31:02 am
I keep forgetting ED30s might have small differences over the AXX, and 28KW requested when hot is one of them, but sounds like yours is on the money now :happy2:
Post by: Pesky jones on April 11, 2016, 10:32:50 am
Post by: Beej on April 11, 2016, 05:52:40 pm
Post by: pudding on April 12, 2016, 04:35:53 pm
I can do a proper how to guide this week as I'll be doing my chain on Wednesday hopefully
Good stuff. I've data logged mine over a couple of 30 min journeys now, so if you need any reference data, let me know.
Post by: rich83 on April 12, 2016, 04:36:46 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 12, 2016, 04:47:35 pm
I can do a proper how to guide this week as I'll be doing my chain on Wednesday hopefully
Good stuff. I've data logged mine over a couple of 30 min journeys now, so if you need any reference data, let me know.
Might be worth posting a bit of it anyway Pudding, just for others.
Post by: neiller on April 12, 2016, 06:26:22 pm
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Post by: doylebros on April 12, 2016, 06:42:37 pm
I can do a proper how to guide this week as I'll be doing my chain on Wednesday hopefully
Good stuff. I've data logged mine over a couple of 30 min journeys now, so if you need any reference data, let me know.
Might be worth posting a bit of it anyway Pudding, just for others.
+1 for the above while its fresh in people's minds because summer is just around the corner :driver:
Post by: dazza on April 12, 2016, 07:39:02 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 13, 2016, 07:30:59 pm
But its still smoking a little when hot, smoke rising from behind the maf sensor. Really got no idea where its xoming from. There is still an oil leak on the other side of the engine, but thats on the other side. Any ideas on how to go abour fixing this?
Post by: rich83 on April 13, 2016, 07:33:54 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 13, 2016, 08:10:28 pm
So done approx a hundred miles and it all seems ok.
But its still smoking a little when hot, smoke rising from behind the maf sensor. Really got no idea where its xoming from. There is still an oil leak on the other side of the engine, but thats on the other side. Any ideas on how to go abour fixing this?
For me these leaks seem to be a lot easier to address and locate if you have access to a vehicle lift rather than on your back under ramps but if you haven't then,Telescopic mirrors and plenty aerosol brake cleaner for the maf area one - that I expect will be a bolt seal to the camcover over tightened.
The one at the chain end can still be excess in the gearbox casting webs coming out while driving - don't be in a hurry to dismantle spend your time confirming all previous spillage is removed and don't be lazy about it cause every time you dismantle you've got a good chance of breakage to hose and plastic clips etc.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 13, 2016, 10:24:31 pm
Everything in vcds looks good however, apart from block 93 which reads -3kw. I think @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) said this should be 0 to -2kw. @vRSAlex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981) any thoughts?
Post by: Dan_FR on April 13, 2016, 10:33:51 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 14, 2016, 06:41:30 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 14, 2016, 08:35:43 am
Mines a BWA but from memory it was either -3 or -4. I wouldnt worry about it to be honest
Thanks dan
Now you know the engine is OK new parts is the only way to get reliability so if you remove a gasket,hose or clip its best to replace it. :happy2:
Sounds good, it makes sense. It was my opinion too tgat now I have the engine running ok I cant spend money a bit more confidentlly. Thanks
Post by: Dan_FR on April 14, 2016, 08:55:04 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 14, 2016, 11:29:59 am
I'm curious about my timing again now, think i'll have to break out the laptop after work and check
Please let me know the result.
Post by: pudding on April 14, 2016, 01:50:04 pm
I can do a proper how to guide this week as I'll be doing my chain on Wednesday hopefully
Good stuff. I've data logged mine over a couple of 30 min journeys now, so if you need any reference data, let me know.
Might be worth posting a bit of it anyway Pudding, just for others.
Yeah it's just raw data in excel. Need to make some pretty graphs first so it's more meaningful!
Post by: pudding on April 14, 2016, 01:53:40 pm
Thanks. Ive ordered a second hand rev h vacuum pump so I will clean everything up, and then replace the vac pump. I think I might as well replace the valve cover gasket at the same time. After ive replaced the gasket and the vac pump I will then clean everything up with aerosol spray and see if it solves it. What do you think about this plan @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) ?
Everything in vcds looks good however, apart from block 93 which reads -3kw. I think @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) said this should be 0 to -2kw. @vRSAlex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981) any thoughts?
I think you've got a bit of oil dripping onto the exhaust manifold.
As for the cam position (block 93). -2KW is a number I've seen quoted quite a few times now but I think 1 or 2 KW difference won't make a huge difference. Mine's moved to -1KW now, so I think things tend to settle after a while. Check it again after you've done 500 miles or so.
I think there is an allowable range the ECU can accept before it can no longer 'see' the cam position. Given your cam timing is tracking as it should, you can assume the ECU is happy with the signals it's getting. If yours read something like - or + 10KW, that would be a pontential problem!
Post by: Pesky jones on April 14, 2016, 01:57:57 pm
I couldn't see any oil on the exhaust manifold.
I think i'll go ahead and replace the gasket anyway as ill be able to see more with the valve cover off as well, as well as replacing the vacuum pump to see if makes any difference. It is likely to be an oil leak right, its not likely to be smoke coming out of the engine somehow right? Touches wood.
Post by: usman89 on April 14, 2016, 02:29:12 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 14, 2016, 05:57:43 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 14, 2016, 06:28:24 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 14, 2016, 06:33:25 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 14, 2016, 06:40:33 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 14, 2016, 06:47:53 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on April 14, 2016, 11:33:46 pm
-4kw on block 93 so i'd say yours is fineI'm curious about my timing again now, think i'll have to break out the laptop after work and check
Please let me know the result.
Post by: dazza on April 15, 2016, 09:32:48 am
Block 91:
Specified 24kw
actual fluctuates between 22.5kw to 25.5kw
Block 93: -2kw
Post by: Pesky jones on April 15, 2016, 09:00:15 pm
After approx an hour at 50/60/70 it hasnt smoked again, but there is still a faint smell of burning when stopped with windows open, or if you open the honnet and put your head near the engine. But no smoke.
I think tomorrow I will replace the valve gasket anyway, and give everything a good clean up. Then I will see if it still smells after cleaning. Im not receiving the vac pump untill next week so wont be able to replace that, but as I mentioned it doesnt appear to be leaking still (if it was that).
Post by: Pesky jones on April 15, 2016, 09:22:02 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 15, 2016, 09:26:54 pm
I have mentioned the difficulty of getting the oil out of the casting webs earlier it's tricky.
I would do a really good inspection for any further residual oil from the repair areas and clean it like it was your body work, then take it for another drive out.
After enjoying the ride out I would then inspect it again for any leaks, like a doctor not a nurse!
On the smell issues ask one of your pals if they can smell any odours in case your just over thinking it.
Post by: rich83 on April 15, 2016, 09:29:34 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 15, 2016, 09:33:36 pm
Yeah its a pain... i used A LOT of brake cleaner!
The above pays dividends as it stops the customer bring the vehicle back saying "I've got oil on my block paving who do I give the cleaning bill too"!
Post by: Pesky jones on April 15, 2016, 09:35:47 pm
I did think maybe its just in my head but my girlfriend said she could smell it today.
Either way I will do as you said and give it a massive clean tomorrow.
I wont bother removing the hpfp when I replace the valve cover gasket tomorrow, unless im forgetting something and need to....?
Post by: doylebros on April 15, 2016, 09:41:21 pm
Thanks John. Well since ive got the oil out of the casting webs yesterday lunch time it hasnt come back. Theres still residue which I will try to clean tomorrow.
I did think maybe its just in my head but my girlfriend said she could smell it today.
Either way I will do as you said and give it a massive clean tomorrow.
I wont bother removing the hpfp when I replace the valve cover gasket tomorrow, unless im forgetting something and need to....?
Forgive the girl friend, she would say she's seen little green men under the hood if it stopped you talking about the car!
I wouldn't be in a hurry to do the gasket till I had the vacuum pump and just enjoy the driving and running around in the car.
I would want to do both jobs when the vehicle was stone cold, first thing in the morning when the oil has all drained back to the sump - less cleaning and a easier life.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 15, 2016, 09:47:36 pm
Ok, as eager as I am to have it all done, that does make sense and I will do that.
Post by: Pesky jones on April 16, 2016, 10:33:01 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 16, 2016, 11:57:21 am
Post by: doylebros on April 16, 2016, 06:37:20 pm
Scratch that its pissing it down so cant do anything. I will replace gasket, vac pump and clean everything all in one go next week. If its not raining...
Now you've got the vehicle running and usable all your repairs should be planned with comfort and enjoyability in mind Pesky - remember your doing this cause you want to learn and get the "I done that feeling" from the job. :driver:
Post by: Pesky jones on April 17, 2016, 11:08:08 am
Scratch that its pissing it down so cant do anything. I will replace gasket, vac pump and clean everything all in one go next week. If its not raining...
Now you've got the vehicle running and usable all your repairs should be planned with comfort and enjoyability in mind Pesky - remember your doing this cause you want to learn and get the "I done that feeling" from the job. :driver:
True, I just want to make sure the engine is running ok as it is. Not sure if I can smell petrol in the cabin when I first start the car now. Think im going to replace the sealbon the hpfp as well because ive that hpfp in and out a number of times. The only fuel related work ive done is to the hpfp and associated fuel lines so ill try that first.
Im going to see my mates leon fr later to see how thats running and smelling lol
Post by: vRSAlex on April 17, 2016, 02:34:16 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 17, 2016, 06:12:12 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 19, 2016, 03:34:33 pm
Im going to replace the vac pump and valve cover gasket this week as well as giving it a dam good clean - like a doctor, not a nurse :wink: hopefully tomorrow.
In other news, since ive had the car running again, there is a noise that im not a hundred percent sure on in the engine. It isn't a loud or even very noticeable noise, its only because ive been listening to the engine since it running again that ive been able to pick it up. I doubt a passenger or walker by would notice it. Its hard to record, and you can only hear it in the video if you watch it in a quiet place. It does actually make the noise whenever the engine is on, but you can hear it from 15 seconds to 20 seconds most clearly. It kind of goes and comes every second, is a low pitched surge type noise. I cant remember if it did it before or after the cam chain snap!
Im trying to go and see my mates leon FR to listen to that run, but his is a bwa so may run differently anyway.
here's the video
Post by: Pesky jones on April 21, 2016, 02:24:31 pm
In other news, I met up with my mate with the leon FR, and his smelt the same as mine when you stuck your head in the bay so I think it was just excess oil. Definitley replacing the vac pump but in two minds about the valve cover gasket now... don't think its leaking - think it was just excess oil that's now been burnt.
I couldn't hear the noise that mine makes on his engine, although I couldn't hear it on mine at that time either! (cars going past etc.)
Im not sure I posted this or not already, but when I was removing the pcv, two of the bolt heads had sheared off whilst undoing them. This means its only held on by two out of four screws, both at one side of the PCV, but it seems to have a good seal. Wondering if this could be it. When I replace the vac pump (and possibly the valve cover gasket – depending on people opinion) im going to try and get the two PCV valve bolt shafts out of the valve cover someone… not really sure how tbh. If I get them out then ill replace and see if it sorts the noise
Post by: Pesky jones on April 23, 2016, 10:31:42 am
Post by: Pesky jones on April 23, 2016, 11:42:03 am
Now to decided whether its worth doing to valve cover gasket in between rain... it is generally sunny and the rain obly lasts for a couple a mins at a time
Post by: Pesky jones on April 23, 2016, 02:45:31 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 23, 2016, 03:00:15 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 23, 2016, 06:37:05 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 23, 2016, 06:44:26 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 23, 2016, 10:49:02 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 24, 2016, 05:08:06 pm
Post by: rich83 on April 24, 2016, 05:17:58 pm
Post by: dazza on April 24, 2016, 06:53:24 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 24, 2016, 07:54:58 pm
Why didn't you remove the two PCV bolts which are damaged when you had it stripped down or are you saying your only using two of the four bolts and these damaged bolts aren't in the head?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 24, 2016, 10:41:41 pm
Well done on your progress and I could 't make any noises out in your video which worried me.
Why didn't you remove the two PCV bolts which are damaged when you had it stripped down or are you saying your only using two of the four bolts and these damaged bolts aren't in the head?
Thanks, the noise is only really audible from 15 seconds onwards, but it may just be in my head :stupid:
Out of the four pcv bolts, there are only two holding it on. The other two have had the heads sheer off, with the shafts still remaining in the cam cover. I did look at removing them, but the shaft diameter is so small im not sure an easy out (cente punch and lhs thread bit) would work. Rich suggested using a dremel with a small cutting disk which would slightlt cut the plastic of the valve cover but not too badly and then use a flathead to remove them, but I dont have a cutting disc attachment. Ive left it for now, because it seems to have a good seal even with only two bolts. I did a pcv test with the dipstick and it passed so ive assumed its still functional.
I think now ive done everything I can in a mechanical sense to ensure the engine is working correctly, im going to do some logs to check performance.
I think ill use advanced measuring blocks to measure actual and requested boost, and fuel rail pressure, as well as mass air flow rate and rpm. Any others to measure to help confirm the performance? It is rtech stage one if that bares any relevance. @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) you're clued up on this arent you?
Thanks guys
Post by: dazza on April 24, 2016, 10:52:29 pm
https://www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php
Post by: Dan_FR on April 25, 2016, 09:31:42 am
Standard airbox? Any leak from the PCV should be highlighted through slightly higher than normal fuel trims (Block 032 - no logging just a static check - do not clear fault codes as it also clear the trims and they will take several miles of mixed driving to re-adapt)
As for logging, it depends what you want to check? mechanical side of what you've done or just general health data logging? APRs guide isn't bad although the misfire diagnosis stuff isn't needed unless you have a misfire problem
Some of the things I normally log across various runs include:
normal blocks 115, 020 114
Advanced:
Engine RPM in each log as a reference.....
Ignition-timing angle (Group 3)
Lambda - both specified and current, (Group31)
Throttle drive - angle sensor 1 (group54)
Injection timing (Group 101)
Low pressure fuel pump (103)
N75 (114)
Boost - specified and actual (115)
High pressure - rail (230)
Intake G/s (003),
Ignition timing (003)
Timing pull/correction (020 - all 4)
Lambda regulator (001 I think)
Could be more that are worth doing, but I use these when doing a general health check on mine
Post by: Vintyd on April 25, 2016, 10:17:12 am
Any other things worth looking at when doing a health check?
Cheers
Post by: Pesky jones on April 25, 2016, 09:51:36 pm
Is the noise you can hear like a surging noise that comes and goes?
Post by: Pesky jones on April 30, 2016, 10:30:51 am
Its the last issue on this whole topic, and ideally I really want to sort it haha. It might turn out thats its normal but I doubt it. Thanks.
Post by: Dan_FR on April 30, 2016, 05:02:53 pm
Post by: doylebros on April 30, 2016, 06:46:04 pm
The surging can be really apparent from inside the car but impossible to record. I oculd hear it quite loudly yesterday in the car after giving it some beans. Ive listened to the video again and you really need to turn up the volume to hear it. @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) maybe give it another go? Remember its the last five seconds that you can properley hear it @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) do you know what normal fuel trim shouls be? Or is a case of requested and actual and ill be able to see myself.I can hear the tone change in the last five seconds did it stay at the uplifted tempo or drop back?
Its the last issue on this whole topic, and ideally I really want to sort it haha. It might turn out thats its normal but I doubt it. Thanks.
MY NEXT MOVE
I would do the two bolts on the PCV first as we know that problem exists.
Remove the air box and check for any tiny cracks with a magnifying glass - they crack very easily when removing.
I've had a relatively new PCV act up once I've left it upside but that was a hunting fault.
Post by: r5gtt on April 30, 2016, 06:55:05 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on April 30, 2016, 08:27:27 pm
I will check fuel trims tonight, and sort out the pcv and check the airbox for cracks as you say @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) Am I checking the whole air box cover? Or just the part that contains the filter?
Thanks.
Post by: doylebros on April 30, 2016, 08:31:46 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 01, 2016, 08:11:58 pm
Post by: doylebros on May 01, 2016, 08:20:46 pm
Bargain and you'll know it's the best way while your waiting for an intake.
Post by: fab5freddy on May 01, 2016, 08:35:50 pm
If you feel the maf is gone Send Freddy a PM and buy his maf http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,106431.0.html
Bargain and you'll know it's the best way while your waiting for an intake.
Cheers John, i think you need your glasses though mate, mines a MAP sensor not a MAF :laugh:
Post by: doylebros on May 01, 2016, 08:41:56 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 01, 2016, 08:47:35 pm
Post by: doylebros on May 01, 2016, 08:50:24 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on May 01, 2016, 10:34:28 pm
Rare for a MAF to go on these
Post by: Pesky jones on May 01, 2016, 10:36:27 pm
Lambda partial 1.6
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513)
Post by: Dan_FR on May 01, 2016, 10:39:08 pm
Keep am eye on the realtime trims as the LTFT take a while to adapt
Post by: doylebros on May 01, 2016, 10:43:20 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 01, 2016, 10:49:34 pm
@doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) its looking likely the PCV bolts are the issue considering what dan is saying. Unfortunately easier said then done, I tried to use a borrowed set of easy outs but they were way too big. I think I either need to find a smaller set of easy outs or get a dremel cutting disc to cut a groove in it, but the shaft is fairly set back into the rocker cover. Ive been thinking about a small clamp instead possibly.
I dont really understand how the intake cracks would affect it, there are small holes in the air box cover anyway? Perhaps ill borrow my mates whole engine cover and try that. assuming a leon fr bwa is the same apart from the VW/Seat logo :smiley:
Post by: Dan_FR on May 02, 2016, 11:32:06 am
You got any pics of the cracks you speak of? If they are before the MAF sensor they wont have any affect
Post by: Pesky jones on May 02, 2016, 02:18:33 pm
I didnt see any cracks in the small area after the maf.
Shall I borrow my mates cover of his leon fr bwa to see if it changes?
Post by: Dan_FR on May 02, 2016, 02:57:44 pm
My money is on the PCV/cam cover leaking. It needs sorting or deleting
Post by: Pesky jones on May 02, 2016, 03:13:23 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on May 02, 2016, 05:56:01 pm
Not sure if the R-Tech one is still sold, but it used to be around the £130 mark. EVAP delete is a DIY but will throw an EML if the valve is removed, needs mapping out
Post by: ArildStavrum on May 02, 2016, 06:15:51 pm
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=104989.0
Post by: Dan_FR on May 03, 2016, 08:10:31 am
You can also make your own PCV delete using the adaptor plates for catch can kits, as this is what I did with mine as I had one lying around. Not as pretty but just as functional
Post by: Pesky jones on May 03, 2016, 08:47:42 am
Post by: Dan_FR on May 03, 2016, 10:29:30 am
Post by: Pesky jones on May 03, 2016, 10:45:36 am
Is it ok to run with the issue for a while until I get some money to fix it do you think?
Post by: Pesky jones on May 04, 2016, 03:59:34 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 16, 2016, 02:37:26 pm
So @doylebros (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6153) and @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) you were right, this is probably the cause of the surge. I have a dremel and cutting disc now, just too scared to try and remove the two broken bolt shafts haha. Chances are ill end buying a new valve cover. Any ideas on price?
They said I didnt have any other boost leaks, but to check the dv spring. Nikki test drove it and said it lagged a bit when changing gears, which ive noticed, and he said a dsg reset might help it but to check the dv as well.
Post by: Dan_FR on May 17, 2016, 06:29:15 am
Post by: rich83 on May 17, 2016, 07:02:54 am
Post by: Pesky jones on May 17, 2016, 08:09:41 am
Yeah ill have a crack at removing them. Im not sure about blocking the inlet manifold, plus when blocking the pcv does that plate that blocks it not use the same screw holes as the pcv? What are the benefits of pcv delete, think I need to do some research on it tbh :signLOL:
Post by: pudding on May 17, 2016, 09:04:49 am
Post by: Dan_FR on May 17, 2016, 10:19:54 am
Research needed, lot's of pros and cons
Post by: Pesky jones on May 18, 2016, 09:15:53 am
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) Using the forge PCV delete plate above, I will essentially block the cam cover venting gas to the inlet manifold, but it will still vent to the crank if Im understanding correctly. Then the cam cover will vent gasses through the two rear breather pipes.
The only con I could find being that it increases the pressures inside the engine as it is now venting the cam cover gassess through one less outlet?
It all looks good, however, Id still need to remove the two bolt shafts in order to fit this plate!
I think r-tech kits are probably all sold out now. There was only 10 left about a month ago...
Post by: Dan_FR on May 18, 2016, 10:05:21 am
This does increase crankcase pressure which is why I tell people to either go R-Tech PCV (which includes a blank for the turbo, and all gases are vented to atmosphere) or stick with the factory PCV. Ideally you would still sort your cam cover regardless though
With the R-Tech one a 100% perfect seal isn't crucial as it is just unmetered blow-by gases being vented to atmosphere, although you may get a slight weep of oil from it as you would expect
Think I would get the cam cover fixed or look for a decent used one and then go from there
Post by: Pesky jones on May 18, 2016, 11:31:05 am
Just for information, with the OEM PCV why does the crank vent to the cam cover, only to vent from the cam cover to the inlet manifold? Why not just have it go straight to the inlet manifold to burn?
If I sort the cam cover, I might just go standard PCV for now. I think unless I do it properly with a r-tech system (are they the only ones to make a "good" system?) I'm not going to bother. Its just an extra expense without worthwhile benefits at the moment. Thanks for the info
Post by: rich83 on May 18, 2016, 11:37:41 am
Post by: Dan_FR on May 18, 2016, 01:08:30 pm
Just for information, with the OEM PCV why does the crank vent to the cam cover, only to vent from the cam cover to the inlet manifold? Why not just have it go straight to the inlet manifold to burn?
Crank gases vent in to the cam, join the gases/pressure from the cam area, then all of the pressure/gases go through to the PCV, which either directs it directly in to the intake manifold under vacuum, or in to the turbo intake when there is boost/positive pressure in the inlet manifold.
The gases cannot go straight to the inlet manifold, as when on boost, the positive pressure in the inlet would pressurise both the cam and crank areas, which is a major no-no if you like your engine. This is why we need the PCV which is essentially a one-way valve, allowing gases to pass through in to the inlet, but stopping any pressure returning and pressurising the engine. On a N/A car there is no issue venting straight to the inlet manifold as there is no positive/boost pressure to worry about in the inlet manifold.
Post by: Pesky jones on May 28, 2016, 03:46:30 pm
When r tech did the smoke test this was the only place it was leaking from.
It still surges a little bit. It doesn't surge with maf unplugged.
I have a spare maf now thanks to @DANBOY66 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8622) so will replace this then see what it does, although I know @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) doesnt think that the maf sensor often fails but its worth a try?
Post by: Pesky jones on May 29, 2016, 10:21:54 pm
Post by: r5gtt on May 29, 2016, 10:24:30 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 30, 2016, 07:34:04 pm
Post by: r5gtt on May 30, 2016, 07:54:08 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 30, 2016, 11:15:10 pm
Post by: r5gtt on May 30, 2016, 11:27:37 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 30, 2016, 11:29:42 pm
Post by: r5gtt on May 30, 2016, 11:53:32 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 31, 2016, 01:41:22 am
Post by: r5gtt on May 31, 2016, 02:01:47 am
I have a bad feeling here regards piston to valve slap but that's just my wild imagination running off with me.
Still manifold off decoke the fecker and hopefully the hick up should become less apparent. Why not try a can of Mr muscle foam over cleaner through the inlet port and see of that helps :wink: it's good shi* yo. :grin:
Post by: Pesky jones on May 31, 2016, 02:04:01 am
Post by: r5gtt on May 31, 2016, 02:21:22 am
Mine does the same but you can live with it lol
Post by: Pesky jones on June 06, 2016, 07:31:59 pm
Post by: r5gtt on June 07, 2016, 11:39:43 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on June 07, 2016, 11:43:29 pm
Post by: r5gtt on June 07, 2016, 11:50:55 pm
Post by: GTi-Tecnix on December 18, 2017, 10:39:52 pm
hope this is a duo I fix for my car. As previously said damage is done when car dies. Mine said stop engine oil pressure. Next day rattled like a black taxi and now completely dead engine won’t turn just getting a tick over
100% blocked oil pick up pipe, Drain oil, take of sump and give it a good clean or replace strainer about £70 from dealers
then you just need oil and sealent :happy2:
wont be anything else, esp if oil level fine and no oil in your coolant
Post by: GTi-Tecnix on December 18, 2017, 11:05:14 pm
Post by: r5gtt on December 18, 2017, 11:30:59 pm
Post by: GTi-Tecnix on December 18, 2017, 11:51:13 pm
@Pesky jones (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17818)I know and wholly accept my car engine is completely gone. I will not be taking parts off to put my mind at ease from here onwards. Best thing to do is accept the fatality owed in driving habits. It’s that simple.
Post by: Dan_FR on December 19, 2017, 07:22:10 am
Post by: rich83 on December 19, 2017, 08:26:58 am
Post by: teo_parvu on December 19, 2017, 09:17:27 am
It’s like dealing with a toddler.......
OMG! :confused:
Post by: r5gtt on December 19, 2017, 03:06:20 pm
yeah it was a silly thing to do them boast about it :doh:@Pesky jones (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17818)I know and wholly accept my car engine is completely gone. I will not be taking parts off to put my mind at ease from here onwards. Best thing to do is accept the fatality owed in driving habits. It’s that simple.
You live and learn oh and spend :signLOL:
Post by: Pesky jones on December 20, 2017, 01:44:20 pm
hope this is a duo I fix for my car. As previously said damage is done when car dies. Mine said stop engine oil pressure. Next day rattled like a black taxi and now completely dead engine won’t turn just getting a tick over100% blocked oil pick up pipe, Drain oil, take of sump and give it a good clean or replace strainer about £70 from dealers
then you just need oil and sealent :happy2:
wont be anything else, esp if oil level fine and no oil in your coolant
Im guessing there is some type of backstory here. However, you have quoted a reply from the first page of this thread. There were numerous developments made throughout the thread which need to be read before comparing.
EDIT: just caught up on the other thread. TBH buddy, I think you need to just sweep this one under the carpet and start looking for a new TFSI engine. Just learn from it really. Join the the TFSI selling page on facebook, second hand engines get sold often on there. Any 2.0 tfsi engine can be fitted to your car (AXX,BWA,BYD,BWJ,CDL) I also think there are a few american engine codes that differ slightly from the codes listed which are still 2.0 tfsi. Just do your research and a lot of googling
DOUBLE EDIT: one thing that can be taken from my thread, is the level of competence here on the forum. Do not dismiss opinions/ advice. They will be right!
Post by: GTi-Tecnix on December 21, 2017, 03:05:16 am
Lesson learnt :happy2:hope this is a duo I fix for my car. As previously said damage is done when car dies. Mine said stop engine oil pressure. Next day rattled like a black taxi and now completely dead engine won’t turn just getting a tick over100% blocked oil pick up pipe, Drain oil, take of sump and give it a good clean or replace strainer about £70 from dealers
then you just need oil and sealent :happy2:
wont be anything else, esp if oil level fine and no oil in your coolant
Im guessing there is some type of backstory here. However, you have quoted a reply from the first page of this thread. There were numerous developments made throughout the thread which need to be read before comparing.
EDIT: just caught up on the other thread. TBH buddy, I think you need to just sweep this one under the carpet and start looking for a new TFSI engine. Just learn from it really. Join the the TFSI selling page on facebook, second hand engines get sold often on there. Any 2.0 tfsi engine can be fitted to your car (AXX,BWA,BYD,BWJ,CDL) I also think there are a few american engine codes that differ slightly from the codes listed which are still 2.0 tfsi. Just do your research and a lot of googling
DOUBLE EDIT: one thing that can be taken from my thread, is the level of competence here on the forum. Do not dismiss opinions/ advice. They will be right!
Post by: suvaralexandru on May 29, 2020, 08:30:54 pm
The old cylinder head was fissured, because of the oil pump and because of me, because I didn't stop the car on time. The oil pump is now clean and cancelled the balancers, it is stil in warranty. Now I have a new complete cylinder head and after all the pieces were put again together, it appears STOP OIL PRESSURE , STOP ENGINE - red again. As far as I heard, it may be possible that the mechanic had made a mistake when he put the silicon on the cylinder head. He covered the ducts (channels). After 4000 engine-speeds it appears this error.
Post by: DerDave1 on August 25, 2021, 09:56:32 pm
So I have the same error message, Stop engine off bla bla bla.
Read the posts here and did as advised, sump down cleaned everything, new filter, clean oil pick up pipe, new oil, sealed it all good. Take her for a spin for about 45min, 20 min smooth to make sure the new oil is spread everywhere, and than hit her.... all good until 3 miles before home the message reoccurring Stop engine off low oil pressure. I also change the cam shaft sensor and the cam timing chain sensor....
Any good advice please what else could cause that message
Post by: DerDave1 on October 12, 2021, 05:35:20 am
Helpful forum here! Like it.
I faced the same warning message on my MK5 2006 TFSI, and did troubleshoot.
A slight little note which is not mentioned here, my warning message has been related to the timing which was 1degree off! I figured that when I changed the timing belt, and ever than the error message vanished!
YS
Dave
Post by: Tactical_Pear on November 06, 2023, 01:23:36 pm
Post by: OllieVRS on November 07, 2023, 05:10:24 pm
Same thing just happened to me after racing my mate uphill. Stop! Oil pressure or whatever. So I turned the engine off without even cooling it down properly after some fast driving, checked the fluids and everything normal. After starting it up again all was fine, no message, no weird sounds. Day later still nothing while going to and out of work. Car is working perfectly. Later on we decided to go for a ride to the same location. Half way up same message. I turn on the side and quit the engine which this time was rattling. I pop the hood and after wanting to check oil that whole seal was in my hand without even unscrewing it. Completely knocked off the plastic part below engine cover. So there was air coming into where you put oil. Im like okay thats why its saying something with oil pressure. Woke up my mechanic at 2am if he could tow me. Him wanting to sleep suggested to just smack the seal onto it. Did that and trust me no air coming in or out of the oil seal now. Start the engine, sounds good, and no message. Half way home STOP! and rattling sound. I park up at my house and say to myself that Im gonna solve it tomorrow (It was round 3am by that time). I wake up ready to drive myself to my mechanics garage. Starts well and sounds good once again nothing out of ordinary. After driving for 2 minutes STOP! message appears. I say fck it and drive 14km (round 8-9 miles) to mechanic. Car was rattling as sht whole way, to me that 2.0 TFSI sounded like a diesel engine. After I got to the garage my mechanic asked if I got enough oil. I said yes as I checked like 5 times day before. Straight after he said it will be the oil pump then which is wrong. Ill post updates on my car to possibly help people with the same issue.
You'll be lucky to have a running engine after running it for that distance with insufficient oil pressure mate.
Oil pressure is required to lubricate the moving engine parts, otherwise you'll have metal on metal grinding. The rattling sound is coming from your cams and cam chain, oil pressure tensions the cam chain's tensioner on the righthand side of the engine.
Your engine needs serious investigation. The engine sump needs to be dropped, and the oil pump pick-up pipe checked for blockages, and pump balance shaft ends checked for play. Those are the most likely causes for low oil pressure on these engines. Also check the oil pump chain is still correctly tensioned, nothing there is loose.
You'll probably see A LOT of metal flakes and sparkles in the engine oil so be prepared for that.
Regardless if you find something obvious or not afterwards you will need an oil pressure test. Plug in an oil pressure gauge test tool, and monitor the oil pressure.
Once the engine warms up to 80 degrees oil temp, not coolant temp, you should take the following readings (if you can't check with car scanning tool it's around 15 min after the coolant temp hits 90):
Oil pressure at idle, 1000RPM, 2000RPM and 3000RPM. Report back what you/your mechanic get.
The oil pressure should never be below 14.5psi (1 BAR).