MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Track Day Technical => Topic started by: M4T VW on March 23, 2016, 08:17:42 pm
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Hi All
I have just purchased an edition 30 to turn into a track/race car and need some advice on what parts to buy. From reading this forum I can see that quite a few people have track MK5's here so it would be good to get some advice on different upgrades.
A little background on me is that I have just sold my MK2 track car that I made into a 24v V6 using an engine from a MK4 4motion. It went very well but wanted something newer...and not with an anchor in the front! Thats going to be raced in the classic VW cup now. :happy2:
I had my eye's set on a MK5 as they have come into the right price bracket and there are lots of choices for parts. I managed to pick up a red, manual, 3 door edition 30 not far from me for a good price.
Anyway, I'm focusing on handling and braking at the moment. Engine wise I have a loba HPFP, Revo intake and r-tech PCV delete because my valve has had it. I'm also replacing the diverter valve with the rev G one as thats also broken. I'm going to keep the power standard for the moment and spend the money on the rest of the car. Then I bet after one track day I blow a load of cash on the engine and send it to r-tech!
I'm going to be giving the car to TSR to install the full cage for me. I did the MK2 one myself and it turned out great, But never again!
So chassis. I'm planning a full superpro bush kit, Rear mount/lift kit, and 24mm front and rear ARB's. Now I just need to sort the suspension but I don't know what to go for. On the MK2 I had AVO coilovers and custom spring rates to cope with the extra 5ton of the engine :signLOL:
These were ok, but they were on the budget side of the scale but it's all I could get hold of in the time I had. This time i'm looking to spend between £800-1200 on suspension. I don't need them to be 1000 way adjustable, Just as long as they make the car handle like it's on rails. I have been suggested by a few racers not to go for coilovers but a quality damper & spring combination. What is everyone using with success? When I started looking I went straight for the KW V2 or V3's but I know these have their own problems with broken ring collars and are ok for a “street” suspension but this needs to be 100% track and maybe the springs are not the correct rating. Open to suggestions.
Brakes is my other issue. I had ibiza cupra brakes on the MK2 and they were great with the right pad/fluid combo. On this car we are making quite a big step up so it needs to be right.
The options that I can see are 996TT brakes as per http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=42137.0 or a different OEM setup that will fit. The other option is a BBK from the likes of VWM, forge or AP.
To be honest, I'm not warming to the idea of 2 piece disks due to the cost of replacing them at nearly £500 a set which is annoying as I think it's what I need with the direction of this car. I suppose it depends on how long the 2 piece disks last. I plan on doing more track days soon so it could be 5-10 a year.
The porsche setup looks great with it's 1 piece disk, But is it going to take the heat on track for 20 minute sessions? It's ok in the porsche cup so I cant see why not but is it what i'm after?
18” wheels are expected, I have a contact to get hold of some Pro-Race 1.2's in any size and offset etc.
So as you can see, It's sort of a blank canvas at the moment. My first job is to strip it and get it off for the roll cage. I'm gathering parts at the moment so a mass build can be done once its back. This car will lean more towards a race car than a track car. Fully stripped, Poly windows, cut-offs etc. It's going to be trailered most of the time anyway.
Cheers guys, Thanks for any input you give.
Mat :smiley:
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I have just noticed a great post from Mike about brakes in a thread below mine. I'm quoting it here also for reference. :congrats:
After the S3 / Cupra brake option, theres a selection of available Porsche calipers available;
The rear calipers from the 987/987 Boxter (4 pot monoblock) has come to be known as the 'NQSBBK' ~ "Not quite so big brake kit"
Super lightweight, uses oem 312mm rotors and big selection of pads. The big unsprung weight saving has a big positive effect on handling. Not the most powerful though
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13985.0.html
The 996 Turbo 4 pot calipers are a fair bit bigger, use 350mm amg merc discs. A bit more impressive looking, a fair bit more potent and again a big pad choice.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,42137.0.html
Up from that is the Aston DB9 / Ford GT caliper with AP racing 362mm 2 piece rotors form AKS Tuning
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,87310.0.html
Theeeeen there is the Brembo GT Senior & 370mm 2 piece rotor kit again form AKS
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,68533.0.html
That's before you look at Alcon and Tarox kits! ~ As you can tell Ive got a thing for decent brakes!
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13742.0.html
@rex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2615) Has had put the NQSBBK to more use than I did mine.
(Ill dig out some links to the reviews of some of the kits in a min)
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Welcome along!
So many options! @vRSAlex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981) at AKS tuning does some great kits to suit your needs and budget. You're definitely in the right place!
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Hi Mike
Great. Does Alex visit here often or should I give him a call next week? I'm after a price to see what he can offer.
Cheers
Mat
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Rough pricing.... including Pagid RS42 pads (which id recommend upgrading as they are pony)
DB9 caliper + 340mm solid disc + all fitting hardware. £1200
DB9 caliper + 362 2 piece disc + all fitting hardware. £2000
or, what I would go for personnaly
http://www.reyland.co.uk/vw-golf-all-models/
The 6 pot AP racing setup with 2 piece 362mm discs (4th down on the reyland site). Works out at £1850 or £1900 if you want red.
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What dampers other racers recommended? I have Koni Sport and H&R -30 mm but my car isn't track focused. It needs SuperPro ball joints and better tyres to improve its handling, at least.
For brakes I agree with rich83, go for the AP kit. You won't have to lift your heavy foot due to lack of brake power. :wink:
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Great, thanks guys!
Rich, Love the look of the AP setup. I assume these will fit an 18" wheel with the 362mm disk?
Is a master cylinder upgrade required for 6 pot calipers?
How long do the 2-piece disks last and how much are replacements?
Cheers
Mat
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Great, thanks guys!
Rich, Love the look of the AP setup. I assume these will fit an 18" wheel with the 362mm disk?
Is a master cylinder upgrade required for 6 pot calipers?
How long do the 2-piece disks last and how much are replacements?
Cheers
Mat
They will... but youll probably need spacers. MC not really needed... up to you.
Reyand rotors are ~295 for a pair and AP are about 495. The prices are listed on the site.
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Ok great. My wheels will be custom so I could allow for the extra offset when they are built to do away with the spacer if needed.
Ah, I didn't see those extra parts. That's not as bad as I thought actually so that's brakes pretty much sorted.
Just need to work out suspension and then start ripping the thing apart to get it off for the roll cage. Any ideas anyone?
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Ohlins... Bilstein PSS10.... KW V3
in that order.
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Thanks Rich..Rich83...Rings a bell from Club GTI?
The PSS10 looks to be up my street. Am I right in thinking the B16 is the same kit?
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Correct. I used to visit that forum a long time ago :happy2:
Pss10 = b16
10 way damping adjustable.
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Rough pricing.... including Pagid RS42 pads (which id recommend upgrading as they are pony)
DB9 caliper + 340mm solid disc + all fitting hardware. £1200
DB9 caliper + 362 2 piece disc + all fitting hardware. £2000
or, what I would go for personnaly
http://www.reyland.co.uk/vw-golf-all-models/
The 6 pot AP racing setup with 2 piece 362mm discs (4th down on the reyland site). Works out at £1850 or £1900 if you want red.
Plus £150 on the Reylands to go floating which is a must over 350mm.
Nothing wrong with blues. You just don't drive hard enough. :P
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Thanks Alex
On the reyland site it says:
"The Reyland Pro front brake conversion features 6-piston AP Racing CP9040 calipers, two-piece Reyland precision ground discs and Reyland mounting brackets and bells. The kit is supplied with all required parts including discs, pads, bolts, brackets, braided brake hoses and unions. Floating disc to bell mounting is optional."
How can you have a 2-piece disk but then extra cost for floating, Is there two types of 2-piece disk?
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Black calipers with 355x32mm discs £1700*
Black calipers with 362x32mm discs £1700*
Black calipers with 375x32mm discs £1750*
For red calipers add £50 to prices shown above*
For floating disc to bell mount (as shown in picture) add £150 to prices shown above*
That's with Reyland 2 piece discs. AP 2 piece discs are more again.
I drive hard enough mate. :signLOL:
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Thanks Rich, (btw I'm the admin of Club GTI :wink:)
So they come with reyland 2 piece discs anyway, are these not floating then? Should that really say "if you want AP 2 piece discs you need to add £150?"
What I'm trying to say/ask is, if the disc is 2-piece, does that automatically make it a "floating disc"?
Cheers
Mat
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No. Look closer.
Reyland 2 piece are one price.
AP 2 piece are more expensive.
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Yes I know, But what's the actual difference in the products? They are still both 2-piece floating discs just made by different manufacturers?
They way they have it written makes it sound like they are different parts. Essentially it's a premium price for a branded AP disk and not a reyland copy.
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Yes. Same spec. Different manufacturer.
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Ok, Thanks. That's the best part of 2k then. :scared: :grin:
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A two piece disc can be fixed or floating.
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Ah! There we are then. That's what they are saying. Standard is a fixed 2 piece disk and floating is extra. Thanks Alex!
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Yep. You won't go far wrong with any of the 4/6pot 2 piece setups mentioned on this thread.
Make sure to do a full brake fluid bleed too once fitted. If you don't there's a chance you'll boil old fluid on a track day
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For me brakes provide as much fun as loads of power, I never get bored of trying to make my eyeballs fall out! :driver: :jumpmove:
Fortunately I wear glasses...
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Sounds like it's going to be a weapon mate. As for suspension I've got a set of PSS 10's waiting to go on mine. Done loads of research last year before I brought them and everyone who has them seems to rate them.
Need to get a build thread sorted :happy2:
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For me brakes provide as much fun as loads of power, I never get bored of trying to make my eyeballs fall out! :driver: :jumpmove:
Fortunately I wear glasses...
Haha, I also wear glasses for driving but my helmet keeps them on :grin:
Your brakes look good! Are they AP 4 or 6 pot? 350mm?
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For me brakes provide as much fun as loads of power, I never get bored of trying to make my eyeballs fall out! :driver: :jumpmove:
Fortunately I wear glasses...
Haha, I also wear glasses for driving but my helmet keeps them on :grin:
Your brakes look good! Are they AP 4 or 6 pot? 350mm?
6 pot, CP5575 calipers and 355mm discs. Could have used 4 pot quite happily I think. :happy2: