Post by: Erno on November 19, 2016, 12:32:18 pm
Current competetors are:
- The Turbo Engineers TTE420 (http://www.akstuning.co.uk/the-turbo-engineers-tte/212-tte420-k04-hybrid-turbo.html)
- Loba LO400 (http://www.pj-turbo.de/shop/turbotechnik/turbolader/vag-upgrade/loba/394/loba-lo400-ea113-2.0tfsi)
- TurboDynamics MDX507 (http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/shop/mdx507-hybrid-turbocharger-for-vag-20tfsi-265bhp-engines-p-4868.html)
- TurboZentrum EFR6758 (http://www.turbozentrum.de/en/turbos-und-komponenten/turbo-upgrades/audi/efr-6758-vag-2-0-tfsi-turbo-upgrade-with-manifold/a-32000/)
On paper they all look about the same. The EFR6758 seems a bit better than the rest but I couldn´t find any user data on the TurboZentrum package. What would you choose and why?
Post by: AJP on November 19, 2016, 05:18:28 pm
Post by: Orc on November 19, 2016, 06:27:43 pm
Post by: Erno on November 19, 2016, 07:03:51 pm
TTE480
Good alternative. Sadly it goes ovet my budget.. :sad1:
Post by: Orc on November 19, 2016, 07:12:25 pm
Post by: pudding on November 21, 2016, 11:25:27 am
- TurboZentrum EFR6758 (http://www.turbozentrum.de/en/turbos-und-komponenten/turbo-upgrades/audi/efr-6758-vag-2-0-tfsi-turbo-upgrade-with-manifold/a-32000/)
On paper they all look about the same. The EFR6758 seems a bit better than the rest but I couldn´t find any user data on the TurboZentrum package. What would you choose and why?
Couple of things to note on that one from their website:-
"PLEASE NOTE:
The installation on vehicle with right-hand-drive will take some modifications.
Important note about exhaust temperatur
In the past some customers didnt taked care about the exhaust temperatur. Even though the stock turbo is going with up to 1050°C in some cases, this is a) not necessary and b) the death for an EFR turbocharger. Please take care at your programming that the exhaust temperatur never exeed 950°C in any case!"
It's good that they point these things out. Many places wouldn't. The EGT warning does kind of make the EFR sound a bit less resilient than the other options.
I would go TTE420 personally.
Post by: th3_f15t on November 21, 2016, 03:44:49 pm
Post by: pudding on November 22, 2016, 12:58:28 pm
Anyway, would the TTE420 be a good option to improve spool and power (from the same PSI) over a standard K04? I don't want to push for 400+hp because it gets expensive, but wouldn't mind running Stage 2 eddy power but with a better, sturdier turbo that standard and improve spool up.
Post by: Paradox1 on November 22, 2016, 01:43:41 pm
When I had a VR6 turbo, guys using EFRs in the states were seeing a higher rate of failure compared to the tried and test Garretts. So I stuck with ye ol fashioned GT35R!
Anyway, would the TTE420 be a good option to improve spool and power (from the same PSI) over a standard K04? I don't want to push for 400+hp because it gets expensive, but wouldn't mind running Stage 2 eddy power but with a better, sturdier turbo that standard and improve spool up.
I saw Niki post on FB saying that with stage 2 setup and the right fueling additions the TTE420 makes 400 easy.
No doubt that the turbo is superior to most others on the market, maybe because its been tried and tested more than the other hybrids. Shame about the cost though lol
I agree. 400 should be more than enough unless your chasing figures or want an absolute animal.
Has anyone is a stage 2 k04 raced a tte420 to see if the cost is worth the hassle?
Post by: pudding on November 22, 2016, 02:34:49 pm
When I had a VR6 turbo, guys using EFRs in the states were seeing a higher rate of failure compared to the tried and test Garretts. So I stuck with ye ol fashioned GT35R!
Anyway, would the TTE420 be a good option to improve spool and power (from the same PSI) over a standard K04? I don't want to push for 400+hp because it gets expensive, but wouldn't mind running Stage 2 eddy power but with a better, sturdier turbo that standard and improve spool up.
I saw Niki post on FB saying that with stage 2 setup and the right fueling additions the TTE420 makes 400 easy.
No doubt that the turbo is superior to most others on the market, maybe because its been tried and tested more than the other hybrids. Shame about the cost though lol
I agree. 400 should be more than enough unless your chasing figures or want an absolute animal.
Has anyone is a stage 2 k04 raced a tte420 to see if the cost is worth the hassle?
Good to know, cheers!
I think a replacement KO4 is a grand +VAT from the dealer (I wouldn't entertain s/hand or rebuilt personally), so if going down that route, I'm already £1200 in. Might as well throw another £600 in and get a much better snail!
I doubt there would be a huge amount of difference between the two when rolling into boost from say, 3rd upwards. I only say that because I've had a rolling race with a Stage 2+ Eddie (mine's stage 1) and the difference wasn't great. Talking edging away rather than pulling away. Then again, unless something stomps off like I've hit the brakes, I always class that as edging away :grin:
Post by: Paradox1 on November 22, 2016, 02:53:11 pm
When I had a VR6 turbo, guys using EFRs in the states were seeing a higher rate of failure compared to the tried and test Garretts. So I stuck with ye ol fashioned GT35R!
Anyway, would the TTE420 be a good option to improve spool and power (from the same PSI) over a standard K04? I don't want to push for 400+hp because it gets expensive, but wouldn't mind running Stage 2 eddy power but with a better, sturdier turbo that standard and improve spool up.
I saw Niki post on FB saying that with stage 2 setup and the right fueling additions the TTE420 makes 400 easy.
No doubt that the turbo is superior to most others on the market, maybe because its been tried and tested more than the other hybrids. Shame about the cost though lol
I agree. 400 should be more than enough unless your chasing figures or want an absolute animal.
Has anyone is a stage 2 k04 raced a tte420 to see if the cost is worth the hassle?
Good to know, cheers!
I think a replacement KO4 is a grand +VAT from the dealer (I wouldn't entertain s/hand or rebuilt personally), so if going down that route, I'm already £1200 in. Might as well throw another £600 in and get a much better snail!
I doubt there would be a huge amount of difference between the two when rolling into boost from say, 3rd upwards. I only say that because I've had a rolling race with a Stage 2+ Eddie (mine's stage 1) and the difference wasn't great. Talking edging away rather than pulling away. Then again, unless something stomps off like I've hit the brakes, I always class that as edging away :grin:
I agree, some people seem to confused kicking another cars arse with only just passing them lol
im in a simular situation, I have broken k04 that needs a rebuild. I guess now would be the time to go for a hybrid I suppose but im struggling to justify the cost. i mean 900 or so to rebiuild my broken k04 into a hybrid is pretty much brand new turbo money.
I think just getting the k04 build and fitted + a few gallons of meth and i should be grinning for a while :driver: :driver:
Post by: pudding on November 22, 2016, 03:41:02 pm
When I had a VR6 turbo, guys using EFRs in the states were seeing a higher rate of failure compared to the tried and test Garretts. So I stuck with ye ol fashioned GT35R!
Anyway, would the TTE420 be a good option to improve spool and power (from the same PSI) over a standard K04? I don't want to push for 400+hp because it gets expensive, but wouldn't mind running Stage 2 eddy power but with a better, sturdier turbo that standard and improve spool up.
I saw Niki post on FB saying that with stage 2 setup and the right fueling additions the TTE420 makes 400 easy.
No doubt that the turbo is superior to most others on the market, maybe because its been tried and tested more than the other hybrids. Shame about the cost though lol
I agree. 400 should be more than enough unless your chasing figures or want an absolute animal.
Has anyone is a stage 2 k04 raced a tte420 to see if the cost is worth the hassle?
Good to know, cheers!
I think a replacement KO4 is a grand +VAT from the dealer (I wouldn't entertain s/hand or rebuilt personally), so if going down that route, I'm already £1200 in. Might as well throw another £600 in and get a much better snail!
I doubt there would be a huge amount of difference between the two when rolling into boost from say, 3rd upwards. I only say that because I've had a rolling race with a Stage 2+ Eddie (mine's stage 1) and the difference wasn't great. Talking edging away rather than pulling away. Then again, unless something stomps off like I've hit the brakes, I always class that as edging away :grin:
I agree, some people seem to confused kicking another cars arse with only just passing them lol
im in a simular situation, I have broken k04 that needs a rebuild. I guess now would be the time to go for a hybrid I suppose but im struggling to justify the cost. i mean 900 or so to rebiuild my broken k04 into a hybrid is pretty much brand new turbo money.
I think just getting the k04 build and fitted + a few gallons of meth and i should be grinning for a while :driver: :driver:
Yeah I read all the time about X 'spanking' Y, or 'handed him his arse'..... but in reality, it's probably a 3 or 4 car length pull away over 2 miles :grin:
Where you would see a TT420 properly beat a Stage 2 K04 is from a stand still, and the TTE was DSG and 4WD and the K04 a FWD manual :smiley:
£900 sounds Beach Buggy Turbo money.... I hear they're pretty good, but it's too early to tell with these new companies. We know for a fact an OEM K04 can put in at least 100K miles at standard boost, and then it seems (from the facebook group at least) they wear out super quick from there once you Stage 2+ it!! I guess we don't know how many miles BBTs, TTEs and other reman'd turbos last? I'm in it for life span personally. These engines can do 150-200K easily if looked after. The turbos won't though, so I want to put a proper good one in and forget it.
Lol, reminds of that line from Aliens....."Stop ya grinning and drop ya linen" :grin:
Post by: Orc on November 22, 2016, 06:48:10 pm
When I had a VR6 turbo, guys using EFRs in the states were seeing a higher rate of failure compared to the tried and test Garretts. So I stuck with ye ol fashioned GT35R!
Anyway, would the TTE420 be a good option to improve spool and power (from the same PSI) over a standard K04? I don't want to push for 400+hp because it gets expensive, but wouldn't mind running Stage 2 eddy power but with a better, sturdier turbo that standard and improve spool up.
I saw Niki post on FB saying that with stage 2 setup and the right fueling additions the TTE420 makes 400 easy.
I made 462 on the tte420 with all our efforts working with niki!!
No doubt that the turbo is superior to most others on the market, maybe because its been tried and tested more than the other hybrids. Shame about the cost though lol
I agree. 400 should be more than enough unless your chasing figures or want an absolute animal.
Has anyone is a stage 2 k04 raced a tte420 to see if the cost is worth the hassle?
Post by: Paradox1 on November 23, 2016, 10:09:20 am
When I had a VR6 turbo, guys using EFRs in the states were seeing a higher rate of failure compared to the tried and test Garretts. So I stuck with ye ol fashioned GT35R!
Anyway, would the TTE420 be a good option to improve spool and power (from the same PSI) over a standard K04? I don't want to push for 400+hp because it gets expensive, but wouldn't mind running Stage 2 eddy power but with a better, sturdier turbo that standard and improve spool up.
I saw Niki post on FB saying that with stage 2 setup and the right fueling additions the TTE420 makes 400 easy.
No doubt that the turbo is superior to most others on the market, maybe because its been tried and tested more than the other hybrids. Shame about the cost though lol
I agree. 400 should be more than enough unless your chasing figures or want an absolute animal.
Has anyone is a stage 2 k04 raced a tte420 to see if the cost is worth the hassle?
Good to know, cheers!
I think a replacement KO4 is a grand +VAT from the dealer (I wouldn't entertain s/hand or rebuilt personally), so if going down that route, I'm already £1200 in. Might as well throw another £600 in and get a much better snail!
I doubt there would be a huge amount of difference between the two when rolling into boost from say, 3rd upwards. I only say that because I've had a rolling race with a Stage 2+ Eddie (mine's stage 1) and the difference wasn't great. Talking edging away rather than pulling away. Then again, unless something stomps off like I've hit the brakes, I always class that as edging away :grin:
I agree, some people seem to confused kicking another cars arse with only just passing them lol
im in a simular situation, I have broken k04 that needs a rebuild. I guess now would be the time to go for a hybrid I suppose but im struggling to justify the cost. i mean 900 or so to rebiuild my broken k04 into a hybrid is pretty much brand new turbo money.
I think just getting the k04 build and fitted + a few gallons of meth and i should be grinning for a while :driver: :driver:
Yeah I read all the time about X 'spanking' Y, or 'handed him his arse'..... but in reality, it's probably a 3 or 4 car length pull away over 2 miles :grin:
Where you would see a TT420 properly beat a Stage 2 K04 is from a stand still, and the TTE was DSG and 4WD and the K04 a FWD manual :smiley:
£900 sounds Beach Buggy Turbo money.... I hear they're pretty good, but it's too early to tell with these new companies. We know for a fact an OEM K04 can put in at least 100K miles at standard boost, and then it seems (from the facebook group at least) they wear out super quick from there once you Stage 2+ it!! I guess we don't know how many miles BBTs, TTEs and other reman'd turbos last? I'm in it for life span personally. These engines can do 150-200K easily if looked after. The turbos won't though, so I want to put a proper good one in and forget it.
Lol, reminds of that line from Aliens....."Stop ya grinning and drop ya linen" :grin:
Not sure on you guys but I think if you are looking at hybrid turbos running more power than the other(TTE420) then you would need to consider Rods and pistons.
Maybe this is where the other hybrid turbos come into play.
Nobody wants to pay 1800 for a TTE420 and run it and 400bhp and miss out on the extra 40-60bhp because the engine may let go.
@Orc (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9637) - 462 is decent figures... makes the tte480 seem pointless lol
How long did Niki take to map your car?
Post by: Orc on November 24, 2016, 12:37:38 pm
Post by: pudding on November 24, 2016, 03:40:51 pm
My TTE480 didn't run 480 though when we were testing and what it maxed out at. The comparison between the 2 turbos were chalk and cheese. Don't get caught up in figures as thats not real time driving.
That is what I'm curious about. Would the TTE420 make a good road car turbo with good punch and spool characteristics compared to the standard KO4? And it does suffer the same surging at 3000rpm @ 24psi that the K04 does?
The KO4 is OK, but I can't help thinking there a better turbos out there for a road going MK5 now that technology has improved. And they don't seem to last long when running way over standard boost pressure.
Post by: Gti_Mad on November 24, 2016, 05:07:24 pm
My TTE480 didn't run 480 though when we were testing and what it maxed out at. The comparison between the 2 turbos were chalk and cheese. Don't get caught up in figures as thats not real time driving. My car was set for purely track so we backed it down to a safe 1.6 bar but generally i ran over 500hp with the 480. Its all down to the spec on your engine, and i can tell you the power in the tfsi engines is in the head work. Im building another development car now so will be almost replicating the head work on this one to the stage 4. Niki being a good mate of mine and souly being a track car i just leave it with him until he finishes it. The 420 took around 3 weeks but i left the 480 with him for around 5-6 weeks but only because i was developing various things along the way. The torque delivery is key and thats what it was built for. So the 420 was backed down to 442 for track and the 480 was down to 470 for track. Both turbos exceeded the figures.
@Orc (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9637) do u develop stuff solely for yourself or to research and sell/offer these to other ppl
Post by: Orc on November 24, 2016, 06:29:52 pm
My TTE480 didn't run 480 though when we were testing and what it maxed out at. The comparison between the 2 turbos were chalk and cheese. Don't get caught up in figures as thats not real time driving.
That is what I'm curious about. Would the TTE420 make a good road car turbo with good punch and spool characteristics compared to the standard KO4? And it does suffer the same surging at 3000rpm @ 24psi that the K04 does?
The KO4 is OK, but I can't help thinking there a better turbos out there for a road going MK5 now that technology has improved. And they don't seem to last long when running way over standard boost pressure.
There is no surge on the 420 at all, its an absolute brilliant drivable turbo for daily and road. You won't go wrong and seeing other turbos on the market and having first hand experience in stripping them down to investigate the TTE is one of the if not THE best on the market imho.
Post by: Orc on November 24, 2016, 06:33:17 pm
Generally for myself and i enjoy keeping build threads etc off the view of the public as I'm kinda not into that. Saying that my name has gone a little viral from building friends and family on fb and the scenes out their so i seem to be getting more and more builds to do in my own time. this sometimes is a little too much and currently i have 4 full forged builds to do in January. I have a full time job and a busy one at that, but with the knowledge i have and gain from tinkering people seem to hear about me and ask if i can work on them. I suppose on the other hand not doing it as a company i don't really know what to charge and because i enjoy helping folk out I'm probably extremely cheap.My TTE480 didn't run 480 though when we were testing and what it maxed out at. The comparison between the 2 turbos were chalk and cheese. Don't get caught up in figures as thats not real time driving. My car was set for purely track so we backed it down to a safe 1.6 bar but generally i ran over 500hp with the 480. Its all down to the spec on your engine, and i can tell you the power in the tfsi engines is in the head work. Im building another development car now so will be almost replicating the head work on this one to the stage 4. Niki being a good mate of mine and souly being a track car i just leave it with him until he finishes it. The 420 took around 3 weeks but i left the 480 with him for around 5-6 weeks but only because i was developing various things along the way. The torque delivery is key and thats what it was built for. So the 420 was backed down to 442 for track and the 480 was down to 470 for track. Both turbos exceeded the figures.
@Orc (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9637) do u develop stuff solely for yourself or to research and sell/offer these to other ppl
Post by: ducman77 on November 24, 2016, 08:54:16 pm
NF Octane Booster
It's a South African product and it claims to increase your RON by up to 6 points (if you used a full bottle in one tank). Initially I presumed that was just marketing bullsh*t and couldn't possibly be true. But, I was keen to give it a try all the same as any increase in Octane will help avoid knock/detonation/pre ignition whatever you like to call it.
Holy sh*tballs. This stuff has blown me away!! I've a simple set up being just stage 1.5 on a K03. There's been a HUGE hike in midrange punch since I've started using it. Was talking to my tuner and he was confirming he's seen big hikes on the rollers for cars running this stuff. Can't wait to get mine back on the rollers so I can quantify the difference it's made.
Anyways, just thought it might be of interest to some of you guys looking to get the most from your setup
Cheers,
Dave
Post by: pudding on November 25, 2016, 09:44:31 am
My TTE480 didn't run 480 though when we were testing and what it maxed out at. The comparison between the 2 turbos were chalk and cheese. Don't get caught up in figures as thats not real time driving.
That is what I'm curious about. Would the TTE420 make a good road car turbo with good punch and spool characteristics compared to the standard KO4? And it does suffer the same surging at 3000rpm @ 24psi that the K04 does?
The KO4 is OK, but I can't help thinking there a better turbos out there for a road going MK5 now that technology has improved. And they don't seem to last long when running way over standard boost pressure.
There is no surge on the 420 at all, its an absolute brilliant drivable turbo for daily and road. You won't go wrong and seeing other turbos on the market and having first hand experience in stripping them down to investigate the TTE is one of the if not THE best on the market imho.
Brilliant, just what I wanted to hear, thanks :smiley:
Post by: pudding on November 25, 2016, 09:45:02 am
Little bit off topic here guys but just want to mention something another member on here brought to my attention...
NF Octane Booster
It's a South African product and it claims to increase 95 RON petrol to 103-106 RON. Initially I presumed that was just marketing bullsh*t and couldn't possibly be true. But, I was keen to give it a try all the same as any increase in Octane will help avoid knock/detonation/pre ignition whatever you like to call it.
Holy sh*tballs. This stuff has blown me away!! I've a simple set up being just stage 1.5 on a K03. There's been a HUGE hike in midrange punch since I've started using it. Was talking to my tuner and he was confirming he's seen big hikes on the rollers for cars running this stuff. Can't wait to get mine back on the rollers so I can quantify the difference it's made.
Anyways, just thought it might be of interest to some of you guys looking to get the most from your setup
Cheers,
Dave
Where does one purchase this magical motion potion?
Post by: Shoduchi on November 25, 2016, 11:24:49 am
Little bit off topic here guys but just want to mention something another member on here brought to my attention...
NF Octane Booster
It's a South African product and it claims to increase 95 RON petrol to 103-106 RON. Initially I presumed that was just marketing bullsh*t and couldn't possibly be true. But, I was keen to give it a try all the same as any increase in Octane will help avoid knock/detonation/pre ignition whatever you like to call it.
Holy sh*tballs. This stuff has blown me away!! I've a simple set up being just stage 1.5 on a K03. There's been a HUGE hike in midrange punch since I've started using it. Was talking to my tuner and he was confirming he's seen big hikes on the rollers for cars running this stuff. Can't wait to get mine back on the rollers so I can quantify the difference it's made.
Anyways, just thought it might be of interest to some of you guys looking to get the most from your setup
Cheers,
Dave
Where does one purchase this magical motion potion?
Very interested too since I only get BP Ultimate 98 RON here or similar.
I've looked online and found this official distributor in the UK:
Roger Clark Motorsport
19-20 Brindley Road
Leicester United Kingdom United Kingdom
Suburb: Hinckley
Phone: +44-1455-610728
http://rogerclarkmotorsport.co.uk/store/category/154-lubricants-consumables? (http://rogerclarkmotorsport.co.uk/store/category/154-lubricants-consumables?)
Post by: Shoduchi on November 25, 2016, 12:06:10 pm
NF Nitrous Formula Octane Booster 300 ml - 6 Pack
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frogerclarkmotorsport.co.uk%2Fuploads%2Fproducts%2Fnullx800%2F2136569893.jpg&hash=cbedba86570de46fa330922a98d433d7f89e8f47)
Post by: Paradox1 on November 25, 2016, 12:21:04 pm
1-Is there such things as too high of octane
2-Can you run meth with it
3-What octane rating does a car running meth producer in theory
Post by: pudding on November 25, 2016, 02:11:40 pm
Just ordered these:
NF Nitrous Formula Octane Booster 300 ml - 6 Pack
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frogerclarkmotorsport.co.uk%2Fuploads%2Fproducts%2Fnullx800%2F2136569893.jpg&hash=cbedba86570de46fa330922a98d433d7f89e8f47)
Nice! Let us know how you get on with it. It doesn't say what the concentration needs to be to get the full 6 octane, but I'm sure you will find it out :smiley:
Post by: pudding on November 25, 2016, 02:18:37 pm
few questions -
1-Is there such things as too high of octane
2-Can you run meth with it
3-What octane rating does a car running meth producer in theory
1 - I've wondered that myself. I suppose there is a law of diminishing returns once you get to a certain octane on our compression ratio. The higher the octane, the more you can squeeze it before it goes bang (uncontrollably). Sunoco race fuel is popular in high compression (15:1) drag engines, I think that goes up to 120 octane!
2 - You can run meth with anything I reckon.
3 - A quick bit of googling puts Methanol at 110 octane, but I don't know how that translates into an overall octane when mixed with petrol, but E85 is about 104 octane I think.
Post by: AJP on November 25, 2016, 03:12:31 pm
There must be a catch??
Post by: Paradox1 on November 25, 2016, 03:49:03 pm
few questions -
1-Is there such things as too high of octane
2-Can you run meth with it
3-What octane rating does a car running meth producer in theory
1 - I've wondered that myself. I suppose there is a law of diminishing returns once you get to a certain octane on our compression ratio. The higher the octane, the more you can squeeze it before it goes bang (uncontrollably). Sunoco race fuel is popular in high compression (15:1) drag engines, I think that goes up to 120 octane!
2 - You can run meth with anything I reckon.
3 - A quick bit of googling puts Methanol at 110 octane, but I don't know how that translates into an overall octane when mixed with petrol, but E85 is about 104 octane I think.
I agree there will come a point when the meth reachest its limit of doing another other than wasting.
Reason i asked if you can run meth with it was more of would there be any point of the octane booster and Vpower for example made the same octane as meth would. I guess it also depends on the mix of meth in the wmi injection too. very interesting.
So the next question is.... who has a dyno near them??? :driver: :driver:
Post by: pudding on November 25, 2016, 04:06:45 pm
I often read about guys running E85 don't worry about upgrading their intercoolers because it burns so much cooler than neat petrol.
What you really need is Nitromethane :grin: That stuff is evil!
I used an octane booster years ago, can't remember the make, but it was popular with Subaru boys. Can't say I noticed anything tbh, but anything that stops the ECU pulling timing in boost will make it feel a bit perkier.
Post by: ducman77 on November 26, 2016, 07:26:40 pm
I was gobsmacked by the difference it made. I would always have been squarely in the snake oil camp on this kind of stuff!!
It's not cheap mind!!
I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has a good (or bad) experience with it :happy2:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172359017167
Post by: ducman77 on November 26, 2016, 07:34:50 pm
They're 300ml bottles. So that's enough for 3 tank in each bottle. To be fair I just lashed in at least half a bottle the last two times I've used it. Maybe that's why it was so effective :laugh:
If you use it as the manufacturer recommends it works out about a £5 per tank. Not too bad considering it actually seems to work :happy2: :smiley:
Post by: AJP on November 26, 2016, 08:03:51 pm
Sorry, also meant to say the manufacturer recommends 100ml per 60ltr tank.Can I suggest creating a thread for this? It might be getting missed as it's hidden in a thread about turbos. If it works then there would be merit in getting the word out a bit and seeing if any sort of objective testing can be done. I'd like to know what the tuners think.
They're 300ml bottles. So that's enough for 3 tank in each bottle. To be fair I just lashed in at least half a bottle the last two times I've used it. Maybe that's why it was so effective
If you use it as the manufacturer recommends it works out about a £5 per tank. Not too bad considering it actually seems to work :happy2: :smiley:
Post by: Shoduchi on November 26, 2016, 08:34:30 pm
Post by: ducman77 on November 26, 2016, 09:13:36 pm
Sorry, also meant to say the manufacturer recommends 100ml per 60ltr tank.Can I suggest creating a thread for this? It might be getting missed as it's hidden in a thread about turbos. If it works then there would be merit in getting the word out a bit and seeing if any sort of objective testing can be done. I'd like to know what the tuners think.
They're 300ml bottles. So that's enough for 3 tank in each bottle. To be fair I just lashed in at least half a bottle the last two times I've used it. Maybe that's why it was so effective
If you use it as the manufacturer recommends it works out about a £5 per tank. Not too bad considering it actually seems to work :happy2: :smiley:
That's a great idea. @fab5freddy (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3064) recommended it to me. His CDL motor with a tte420 (I think?) is detuned to 409hp in the stuff. Hopefully he'll post his thoughts here
I'll see if I get mine measured in my tuner's dyno to compare with just BP Ultimate 98 RON. :happy2:
Good stuff Shoduci. Maybe once you've got a bit of hard data for us we can do a new thread and spread the word.
The only thing I can think of is that I installed a new thermostat at the same time as i started using it. But surely a new stat wouldn't equal extra globs of midrange shove??
Post by: Shoduchi on November 26, 2016, 10:17:09 pm
Post by: ducman77 on November 26, 2016, 11:17:48 pm
Nah, unless your engine temp was really low, I don't think so. I'd bet on the octane booster instead. :smiley:
Me too :happy2: :happy2:
Post by: fab5freddy on November 27, 2016, 02:38:27 am
This stuff was recommended to me by my tuner, he is a good friend of Niki R tech and they have worked closely on maps over the years and share info on tuning the TFSI.
NF has made a noticeable difference on the performance of my car, i've no technical data to back this up, but i've been using it for the last two years and there's real mid range shove that wasn't available previously.
More over than any performance gain is knowing that my engine runs better, free from potential knock.
I use half a bottle per tank, which by the manufacturers calculations should take me to 98 RON, most of you run these levels of octane as normal practice. 6 octane per bottle is what the manufacturer claims, so do the maths, you guys should hit 105 if you use a full bottle.
Before going TTE420, i ran Ko4 stage 2+ for 3 years, same hardware, i used NF before the swap and noticed a real difference.
I think it has to be said before people get carried away, this isn't a remap in a bottle, it will certainly help, but please be realistic :smiley:
@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) would be great if you can get it on the dyno and graph the real differences :happy2:
Post by: ducman77 on November 27, 2016, 08:20:27 am
The standard pump fuel in Ireland is rubbish!!
More like American fuel than U.K. or rest of Europe fuel. 95RON at best over here.
When my car was mapped initially (same tuner as fab5freddy) it only made 184hp and 200ft/lb bog standard. And 224hp - 240ft/lb after stage 1 map. Most UK cars will make 200hp standard and 240/250hp after stage 1.
So we're starting with a deficit.
When I asked my tuner his thoughts he commented on the possibility of the ECU pulling timing to compensate for our rubbish fuel. He's certainly seen it before.
Now that I'm running the NF I imagine the car (hopefully) has an Octane somewhere closer to what it's designed to have (circa 98/99). Therefore it's probably performing closer to its design specs!
It will be very interesting to see if a car like Shoduchis, which is used to a diet of 98RON, will see an appreciable difference from the booster??
Here's my Dyno plot for anyone that's interested...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMobile_Uploads%2F2016-11%2F4716EAAA-9CD0-4B90-B720-3D04987BA3D8_zpswglmpm08.jpg&hash=704a9e36107c3a449d1dd50ccdb6156a021bae66)
Post by: AJP on November 27, 2016, 09:34:39 am
@Andy could you split this into a new thread if you get a chance?
I'm thinking about R-Tech; Niki's maps are written specifically for 99ron fuel. Increasing the octane level of what's in your tank to 105 on a 99ron map would more than anything provide an extra level of safety/reliability over knock etc, like you guys have suggested.
But what happens when Niki or Rick write a map specifically for 105ron? Theoretically he could run even more timing and we could be looking at considerable gains. I'd imagine such a map would be switchable in conjunction with a 99ron map (in case you ran out of magic juice).
The more I think about this the more it sounds like (a very easy) water-meth. Which still sounds too good to be true!
Post by: ducman77 on November 27, 2016, 05:45:29 pm
The more I think about this the more it sounds like (a very easy) water-meth. Which still sounds too good to be true!
That's exactly why I went for it. It was the knock protection I was after. E85 is unobtanium in Ireland. And water meth is quite a lot of hassle so I thought I'd give this a lash!! My personal results (grant it only on my butt Dyno) have really surprised me. Joe Power (who is Irelands Niki Gower - and good friends and a collaborator with Niki) swears by it.
Since my stage one Map (Dyno print above) I've fitted new red coils, a DV+, a full 3in TBE exhaust, and a ramair oversize induction kit.
I have an RS4 FPV, a Peron intercooler, and VIS pump internals to fit in the next few weeks. Then I'm going back to Joe for Stage 2 mapping.
The plan is to run a couple of tanks with no NF booster in before I see him and see what the baseline results are. Then we'll add the booster and see what happens :rolleye:
Hopefully like Shoduchi we could then have some quantifiable info to share.
Won't be happening today or tomorrow but when I have the info I'll post it right up :happy2:
Regards,
Dave
Post by: AJP on November 27, 2016, 05:52:26 pm
I'll be interested to hear what you find. Ask Joe whether there's the potential for a 105 ron map where 99 fuel is available.The more I think about this the more it sounds like (a very easy) water-meth. Which still sounds too good to be true!
That's exactly why I went for it. It was the knock protection I was after. E85 is unobtanium in Ireland. And water meth is quite a lot of hassle so I thought I'd give this a lash!! My personal results (grant it only on my butt Dyno) have really surprised me. Joe Power (who is Irelands Niki Gower - and good friends and a collaborator with Niki) swears by it.
Since my stage one Map (Dyno print above) I've fitted new red coils, a DV+, a full 3in TBE exhaust, and a ramair oversize induction kit.
I have an RS4 FPV, a Peron intercooler, and VIS pump internals to fit in the next few weeks. Then I'm going back to Joe for Stage 2 mapping.
The plan is to run a couple of tanks with no NF booster in before I see him and see what the baseline results are. Then we'll add the booster and see what happens :rolleye:
Hopefully like Shoduchi we could then have some quantifiable info to share.
Won't be happening today or tomorrow but when I have the info I'll post it right up :happy2:
Regards,
Dave
And if you can stretch to it get an uprated fuel pump on before the map. They make a big difference!
Post by: ducman77 on November 27, 2016, 07:24:37 pm
I'll be interested to hear what you find. Ask Joe whether there's the potential for a 105 ron map where 99 fuel is available.
And if you can stretch to it get an uprated fuel pump on before the map. They make a big difference!
100% AJP. I'll ask Joe.
I'll be fitting a set of VIS pump internals before I go back to him. Bit of an unknown quantity the VIS pump internals so wish me luck :happy2:
Post by: AJP on November 27, 2016, 07:41:51 pm
I didn't read your post properly did I! Should get a nice result with those mods. I suppose the VIS internals are more of an unknown quantity than the likes of Loba or APR, but those pumps were an unknown quantity themselves at one point. I think the thing with internals is making sure the installation into a pump is done well.I'll be interested to hear what you find. Ask Joe whether there's the potential for a 105 ron map where 99 fuel is available.
And if you can stretch to it get an uprated fuel pump on before the map. They make a big difference!
100% AJP. I'll ask Joe.
I'll be fitting a set of VIS pump internals before I go back to him. Bit of an unknown quantity the VIS pump internals so wish me luck :happy2:
Good luck!
Post by: Shoduchi on November 27, 2016, 08:15:30 pm
Post by: ducman77 on November 27, 2016, 10:19:13 pm
the likes of Loba or APR, but those pumps were an unknown quantity themselves at one point. I think the thing with internals is making sure the installation into a pump is done well.
Good luck!
Exactly! That's what I'm hoping. My buddy and I are gonna try and set up a mini "clean room " environment for the install. So hopefully that'll help :smiley:
I've contacted the dyno owner and he's also curious to know the difference. I'm also going to add a VWR intake but preferably just after doing a couple of runs with the booster to see what I get with the current VWR/ITG panel filter. :smiley:
Brilliant Shoduchi. Keep us posted buddy :happy2:
Post by: Paradox1 on November 28, 2016, 10:36:02 am
Frequently Asked Questions
Why should I use an octane booster?
Using an Octane Booster increases the octane of the fuel. Higher octane fuel protects the motor by reducing pre-ignition, detonation and pinging. using NF Octane Boosters results in a smoother running engine, increased fuel economy, better power and performance and reduced carbon build up.
Running higher octane allows the vehicle timing to be advanced and turbo boost pressure to be increased, resulting in better power and efficiency. In modern vehicles the ECU will detect the better fuel and make adjustments itself, other vehicles can be tuned on a dyno to take advantage of the better fuel. In fact, even modern vehicles can benefit hugely by tuning for the better fuel.
How do I use NF Octane Booster?
NF Octane Booster is best added to your petrol tank, at the filling station, before you fill up with petrol. Pour the NF into your petrol tank and then fill up to ensuring a good mix. Because NF is a liquid, it mixes with the fuel immediately.
Can I add NF Octane Booster to any fuel?
NF Octane Booster is good for use in any petrol vehicle and is compatible with unleaded, LRP(Lead Replacement Petrol) and leaded petrol. NF recommends using the highest available octane pump fuel to give the best gains.
NF Octane Booster or race fuel?
Commercial race fuels tend to be very expensive and hard to find. Using NF Octane Boosters can give you higher octane and better performance than some race fuels with the added convenience that comes with only having to transport a few small, non-flammable bottles. Also, laws often prohibit transporting more than a few litres of fuel in your vehicle, meaning that carrying tins of 20 litres or more is illegal. Also, race fuels do not carry road tax as pump fuels do, which makes using race fuel in street vehicles illegal.
How much octane do I need?
You should run high enough octane to eliminate any detonation in your engine. If the octane level is too high for your vehicle, the fuel will burn too slowly and your car will start to lose performance. Running the correct octane will have your engine running at it's most efficient, delivering the best power.
Will octane booster damage my engine?
No, higher octane fuel protects an engine from detonation(knocking/pinging), thereby extending the life of the engine.
What is detonation / knocking / pinging / pre-ignition?
Due to high temperatures and compression, petrol can ignite before the spark plug is fired. This occurs while the piston is still moving upward and is the equivalent of hitting the piston crown with a large hammer. Every time a vehicle knocks, damage is done to the piston and it is only a matter of time till the piston fails. The higher the octane of the petrol, the higher its resistance to knock.
My spark plugs have gone a rusty/orange colour. Is this normal?
Yes, just as unleaded fuel leaves black deposits on spark plugs and leaded fuel leaves white deposits, NF treated fuel leaves a rusty coloured deposit.
Will NF Octane Booster foul my spark plugs?
NF Octane Boosters will not foul spark plugs if the dosage instructions are followed. If the fuel is overdosed, spark plug fouling may occur. This is picked up as a misfire which is caused by excessive deposits on the spark plugs. The spark plugs can simply be replaced or cleaned with emery paper.
Post by: pudding on November 28, 2016, 11:26:50 am
My spark plugs have gone a rusty/orange colour. Is this normal?
Yes, just as unleaded fuel leaves black deposits on spark plugs and leaded fuel leaves white deposits, NF treated fuel leaves a rusty coloured deposit.
Yeah I had that on my VR6 years ago when I used octane boosters. The piston crowns were orange as well! It's the same colour as rusty water that comes out an engine when someone hasn't used proper coolant, so is quite alarming when you first see it!
Post by: ducman77 on November 28, 2016, 03:36:56 pm
Post by: AJP on November 28, 2016, 04:41:22 pm
Again, I think this is a question for the tuners. Would 105 fuel on a 99 map be too much of a slow burn, and if so, can they create a 105 map with mad timing? Or do we reach a point well before 105 where the plugs start to foul, regardless of whether the timing is mapped to accommodate 105 fuel? Then are we looking at different plugs (colder?) that would work well at 105 but would be too cold for a 99 map setting (if you had to switch to that if you ran out of NF).
Lots of questions. But all interesting stuff.
Post by: ducman77 on November 28, 2016, 05:20:40 pm
Hopefully we can collate a bit of decent data on this product. Then we can create a separate thread and maybe get Alex and Niki and other Yoda like individuals to give their thoughts :happy2:
Post by: AJP on November 28, 2016, 05:45:31 pm
I'll deffo ask my tuner about a 105 map :happy2:Bring it on!
Hopefully we can collate a bit of decent data on this product. Then we can create a separate thread and maybe get Alex and Niki and other Yoda like individuals to give their thoughts :happy2:
Post by: Erno on November 29, 2016, 02:28:54 pm
Post by: pudding on November 29, 2016, 04:15:52 pm
I just wish E85 was freely available. We'd need bigger flowing injectors and probably more pump flow, but reducing cylinder temps would yield some very tasty results indeed. You could probably even up the compression one point and keep the stock timing at well over 1.4 bar, and not bother with bigger ICs either, so keeping lag in check :laugh:
But this is the UK, a country where even decent broadband speeds seems to be an impossible task. My mate in Hong Kong as 1000Mbs to his door ffs!!
Anyway, let's bring the experimenting on!
Post by: ducman77 on November 29, 2016, 05:15:15 pm
Thanks guys but I think that octane booster doesn't help with broken turbo.
Yes Erno.... Sorry about that.... Totally hijacked your thread :ashamed:
Sorry about that :smiley:
At least when you do decide on one of the excellent turbos on your shortlist you'll hopefully be able to maximize its output with some booster :rolleye:
Post by: pudding on November 30, 2016, 11:00:50 am
Perhaps we need to create seperate threads for the octane boosting etc!
Post by: Shoduchi on November 30, 2016, 12:02:15 pm
Erm yeah, probably my fault it got derailed. Buy a TTE420 mate :happy2:
Perhaps we need to create seperate threads for the octane boosting etc!
Done! :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,110079.msg1064200.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,110079.msg1064200.html)
Post by: ducman77 on November 30, 2016, 08:29:48 pm
Erm yeah, probably my fault it got derailed. Buy a TTE420 mate :happy2:
Perhaps we need to create seperate threads for the octane boosting etc!
Done! :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,110079.msg1064200.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,110079.msg1064200.html)
Well done Shoduchi :happy2:
Buy a TTE420 mate :happy2:
@Erno (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10598) - I think this is the best advice. I would be going TTE420 all day long if I was upgrading my turbo :happy2: