MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: david_phillips95 on January 26, 2010, 07:17:31 pm
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URGENT HELP PLEASE!
Hey guys,
Got my Sachs Performance Clutch kit fitted today and it is causing problems. There is excess movement in the pedal and the clutch is juddering. I had a new LUK Dual Mass Flywheel installed as the garage said there is not a Sachs DMF available for my S3??? When i check Elsawin it has a section on how to identify whether you have a Sachs DMF or LUK DMF so this leads me to believe the garage was wrong. This is urgent as i need an answer for the garage tommorow. Anyone any running ED30's have any idea?
Can Someone Please Help Me
Cheers Davie
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Regards the DMF i don't know about an S3 but i have a Sachs Clutch & DMF in my Octavia vRS which has the Same 2.0 TFSi as the S3 (less the KO4 turbo and a few other internal bits) so if you have a Non DSG car then they do have one. If you have DSG im not sure.
As for Judder you will get judder in first gear for around the first 800-1000miles iirc (was told this by JKM when i had mine fitted)
As for Pedal movement the pedal should actually be a lot lot stiffer (my Missus always complains especially in Traffic)
HTH
Carl :happy2:
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I have no judder whatsoever with my Sachs unit. The pedal is firmer and it bites nice and low. Sounds like it could be the DMF - wrong one or poorly fitted i wouldn,t like to guess !!!
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cheers for the quick replies, posted the same thread on audi-sport 30mins ago and nothing, really appreciate it guys. The guy at the garage commented on the fact the clutch cover was thinner than the OEM one so i think the release bearing is struggling to make up for the extra distance it has to cover. i think when sachs designed this clutch they modeled it on the Sachs OEM one they produce for the later S3's. Mine is an 07 with a LUK clutch and DMF setup. I think if he had sourced the Sachs DMF i wouldnt have any issues but cant be sure.
Davie
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cheers for the quick replies, posted the same thread on audi-sport 30mins ago and nothing, really appreciate it guys. The guy at the garage commented on the fact the clutch cover was thinner than the OEM one so i think the release bearing is struggling to make up for the extra distance it has to cover. i think when sachs designed this clutch they modeled it on the Sachs OEM one they produce for the later S3's. Mine is an 07 with a LUK clutch and DMF setup. I think if he had sourced the Sachs DMF i wouldnt have any issues but cant be sure.
Davie
When you say excess movement what do you mean?.
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there is like an inch of movement in the pedal before it tightens up. Do you run the LUK flywheel with your Performance Sachs Kit?
This guy has similar issues http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?81178-Sachs-Performance-Clutch-Write-Up
cheers Davie
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I have both the Clutch & Flywheel and i think from what you describe it's not a problem (with regards the movement) the clutch pedal is always going to have to be depressed a certain distance before the is enough tension for it to engage. An inch is not much to be honest and is probably a lot less than the OEM clutch.
Carl :happy2:
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there is like an inch of movement in the pedal before it tightens up. Do you run the LUK flywheel with your Performance Sachs Kit?
This guy has similar issues http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?81178-Sachs-Performance-Clutch-Write-Up
cheers Davie
I have o/e DMF. My clutch movement is maybe just a bit less than o/e now after bedding in for about 1k miles
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there is like an inch of movement in the pedal before it tightens up. Do you run the LUK flywheel with your Performance Sachs Kit?
This guy has similar issues http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?81178-Sachs-Performance-Clutch-Write-Up
cheers Davie
I have o/e DMF. My clutch movement is maybe just a bit less than o/e now after bedding in for about 1k miles
Do you know if your flywheel is LUK or Sachs?
Cheers
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there is like an inch of movement in the pedal before it tightens up. Do you run the LUK flywheel with your Performance Sachs Kit?
This guy has similar issues http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?81178-Sachs-Performance-Clutch-Write-Up
cheers Davie
I have o/e DMF. My clutch movement is maybe just a bit less than o/e now after bedding in for about 1k miles
Do you know if your flywheel is LUK or Sachs?
Cheers
Sachs
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i think when sachs manufactured the performance kit they did not realise the earlier cars had the LUK setup. if anyone has a sachs DMF number that would be helpful
Cheers
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Gti's used luk until my2008 cars. Only luk is listed for my car, don't know if it is a similar story for s3's but I remember reading and article on s3 forums about the uprated clutch being thinner and causing the symptoms you mention
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the S3's ran a LUK clutch set-up until 2008 when a Sachs unit was fitted. It sounds like you have the wrong set-up for your car and I've heard of this before, like the clutch slave cylinder is having to extend further until it actually has any purchase on the clutch plate itself. I'm sure the lad in question got in contact with Sachs direct and they sorted him out, I seem to remember it being an Italian guy over on ASN :happy2:
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yeah thats correct, im going to contact Sachs tommorow as they have listed this clutch for S3's 56 onwards. Anyone with a LUK flywheel will have issues if they fit the Sachs uprated clutch.
Davie
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Today i have been on the phone to various Audi Parts Departments and spoke to Sachs UK and they told me they do not make a DMF for the Audi S3 8P only a Perfromance SMF, i have etka and the DMF part number against an 09 S3 8p is LUK not Sachs! i know this as i have ordered the PN and its LUK. I have searched the internet for days and cannot source a Sachs DMF part number.
I really doubt a Sachs DMF is available for the S3 8P after all this, it seems to be a forum myth as neither Audi or Sachs can provide me with the part. Untill someone can prove otherwise i highly doubt there is a Sachs DMF for an Audi S3 8P.
Mater i am getting judder in first and reverse but no other gears, did your clutch judder eventually go away or is it still present?
Cheers Davie
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My Judder eventually went away.
JKM told me it would be like that for about 800-1000 miles. I can't remember exactly how long it lasted but it's now like the OEM clutch just a bit harder to press the pedal.
On the odd occasion say when setting off from traffic lights I may get a slight judder every now and then but otherwise it performs like an OEM clutch.
Apparantly the Judder is a feature of these updated clutches but will only happen in first and reverse and eventually goes away.
HTH
Carl :happy2:
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Just a quick update, got the car back and the juddering is gone :happy2: seems the clutch was just settling in woooo. There is a little movement in the pedal before biting point but nothing too excessive. Clutch feels a million times better than standard, bite point is very accurate and feels far more precise than the standard unit. Cant wait for my Autotech HPFP and MV Sport Downpipe now :grin:
Cheers Davie
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:congrats: good outcome.
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Good news :laugh:
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Just a quick update, got the car back and the juddering is gone :happy2: seems the clutch was just settling in woooo. There is a little movement in the pedal before biting point but nothing too excessive. Clutch feels a million times better than standard, bite point is very accurate and feels far more precise than the standard unit. Cant wait for my Autotech HPFP and MV Sport Downpipe now :grin:
Cheers Davie
So did you have any parts changed or is this the same set-up that gave the the pedal travel originally?
Ref the Sachs/LUK 08 cars issue, I was under the impression that it was the friction plate that change not the flywheel, I think people have just assumed that its the fywheel as this is known to give problems
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Just a quick update, got the car back and the juddering is gone :happy2: seems the clutch was just settling in woooo. There is a little movement in the pedal before biting point but nothing too excessive. Clutch feels a million times better than standard, bite point is very accurate and feels far more precise than the standard unit. Cant wait for my Autotech HPFP and MV Sport Downpipe now :grin:
Cheers Davie
So did you have any parts changed or is this the same set-up that gave the the pedal travel originally?
Ref the Sachs/LUK 08 cars issue, I was under the impression that it was the friction plate that change not the flywheel, I think people have just assumed that its the fywheel as this is known to give problems
Same setup as originally mentioned, the mechanic took it another test drive the next day and it felt 100 times better. When i drove it i could not fault it. Must have been the clutch bedding in.
People have definately assumed the flywheel is changed to a Sachs DMF i can confirm it is an LUK DMF, i quizzed audi and sachs and they told me the same thing. There is however a sachs clutch cover and disk on the sachs website and is listed as an OEM part. Anyone who thinks they are running a Sachs DMF in an Audi S3 8P would be wrong. Sachs only make a SMF for the S3 8P.
Davie
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i have a full clutch and flywheel in the grg as a spare so will have a look and see what they are as its all new vw parts
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Just a quick update, got the car back and the juddering is gone :happy2: seems the clutch was just settling in woooo. There is a little movement in the pedal before biting point but nothing too excessive. Clutch feels a million times better than standard, bite point is very accurate and feels far more precise than the standard unit. Cant wait for my Autotech HPFP and MV Sport Downpipe now :grin:
Cheers Davie
So did you have any parts changed or is this the same set-up that gave the the pedal travel originally?
Ref the Sachs/LUK 08 cars issue, I was under the impression that it was the friction plate that change not the flywheel, I think people have just assumed that its the fywheel as this is known to give problems
Same setup as originally mentioned, the mechanic took it another test drive the next day and it felt 100 times better. When i drove it i could not fault it. Must have been the clutch bedding in.
People have definately assumed the flywheel is changed to a Sachs DMF i can confirm it is an LUK DMF, i quizzed audi and sachs and they told me the same thing. There is however a sachs clutch cover and disk on the sachs website and is listed as an OEM part. Anyone who thinks they are running a Sachs DMF in an Audi S3 8P would be wrong. Sachs only make a SMF for the S3 8P.
Davie
Davie,
Could you please confirm the part number of your SACHS clutch plate as myself and Markymark are suffering similar problems as we have LUK Flywheels. :happy2:
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Just a quick update, got the car back and the juddering is gone :happy2: seems the clutch was just settling in woooo. There is a little movement in the pedal before biting point but nothing too excessive. Clutch feels a million times better than standard, bite point is very accurate and feels far more precise than the standard unit. Cant wait for my Autotech HPFP and MV Sport Downpipe now :grin:
Cheers Davie
So did you have any parts changed or is this the same set-up that gave the the pedal travel originally?
Ref the Sachs/LUK 08 cars issue, I was under the impression that it was the friction plate that change not the flywheel, I think people have just assumed that its the fywheel as this is known to give problems
Same setup as originally mentioned, the mechanic took it another test drive the next day and it felt 100 times better. When i drove it i could not fault it. Must have been the clutch bedding in.
People have definately assumed the flywheel is changed to a Sachs DMF i can confirm it is an LUK DMF, i quizzed audi and sachs and they told me the same thing. There is however a sachs clutch cover and disk on the sachs website and is listed as an OEM part. Anyone who thinks they are running a Sachs DMF in an Audi S3 8P would be wrong. Sachs only make a SMF for the S3 8P.
Davie
Davie,
Could you please confirm the part number of your SACHS clutch plate as myself and Markymark are suffering similar problems as we have LUK Flywheels. :happy2:
The Full kit number is SR999787 999502, the kit contains Performance Clutch Plate 883082 999787 and Performance Clutch Disc 881864 999502.
Anyone running this setup in an S3 will have the exact same pedal travel etc as i do. I dont know about the MK5's & Leon's running the 2.0tfsi engine as they may have a different setup. I am 100% sure that if i were to drive another S3 with OEM DMF and Performance clutch the pedal feel would be exactly as mine is.
Sachs have confirmed they have hundreds of people use this kit without issues. I still believe the travel in the pedal is down to the stack up height of the Performance Clutch and DMF being slightly less than the OEM Clutch and DMF. i think the pedal travel is due to the slave cylinder extending out to make contact with the clutch plate but sachs have told me the stack up heights are similar but im not convinced. Anyway the car is perfect and the clutch feels far better than OEM so cant complain
Davie
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I thought the clutches were the same on the S3 and the ED30? :chicken:
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i havent looked into the ed30, they could be but i wont comment on it unless i knew for a fact they were.
Davie