Post by: barelyrelevant on July 17, 2017, 07:20:18 pm
When I was looking for mine last August i'm sure there was not much below £5.5k with a half decent spec and even cars with 110k+ were up for strong money.
Seems like there's been some good spec cars selling for cheap at the moment.
Post by: AJP on July 17, 2017, 07:57:14 pm
But yeah, compared to a couple of years ago there's maybe a 1.5-2k drop on average?
I reckon a hell of a lot of sub 5k cars are quite neglected though. Eventually you'll get a slight division in price and quality: Runners, that are starting to cost money; and labours of love, that have had money spent before, or whenever it's needed.
I'm aiming to get mine into the second category.
Post by: PatchySan on July 17, 2017, 08:48:53 pm
With many opting to choose them over the MK5 I don't think they are shifting as quickly as they used to these days so prices are going to drop to be competitive. Obviously not good news for us owners looking to move on in the short term but good for buyers looking for a hot hatch bargain.
Who knows keep them long enough with lots of TLC and you have something of a cult classic like the MK1/MK2 where prices are actually going up for them! Particularly a special edition like an ED30 or Pirelli.
Post by: AJP on July 17, 2017, 09:28:44 pm
Also factor in depreciation and abundant supply of the newer generation Golfs coming to the end of their leases, there should be plenty of Performance spec Golf MK6/MK7 on the market these days (particularly the Golf R MK7 with their crazy low lease deals a few years back).Mk1/2 prices have been rising for a decade. And I'll say it - they're massively overpriced today. You can spend ten grand and still inherit a moneypit.
With many opting to choose them over the MK5 I don't think they are shifting as quickly as they used to these days so prices are going to drop to be competitive. Obviously not good news for us owners looking to move on in the short term but good for buyers looking for a hot hatch bargain.
Who knows keep them long enough with lots of TLC and you have something of a cult classic like the MK1/MK2 where prices are actually going up for them! Particularly a special edition like an ED30 or Pirelli.
I wonder if the mk3 is catching up, like the B3/B4 Audis...
Post by: willni on July 17, 2017, 09:36:54 pm
Also factor in depreciation and abundant supply of the newer generation Golfs coming to the end of their leases, there should be plenty of Performance spec Golf MK6/MK7 on the market these days (particularly the Golf R MK7 with their crazy low lease deals a few years back).
With many opting to choose them over the MK5 I don't think they are shifting as quickly as they used to these days so prices are going to drop to be competitive. Obviously not good news for us owners looking to move on in the short term but good for buyers looking for a hot hatch bargain.
Who knows keep them long enough with lots of TLC and you have something of a cult classic like the MK1/MK2 where prices are actually going up for them! Particularly a special edition like an ED30 or Pirelli.
The leasing market really has killed the 2nd hand car market a fair bit, people just don't seem to want to own things outright anymore. In fact a salesman was telling me they don't want people to buy cars outright anymore from new they're only interested in lease deals since they make more off them.
But performance and hot hatch cars always dip way down and then bounce back up, it wasn't that long ago the old E30 M3's were were £6,000 now they're starting at £30k for crap ones and loved ones £60k. If a car is looked after and the mileage stays below 70,000 you'll see it bounce back.
But as AJP said you can pay £3,000 for a rusty mk1/2 shell essentially just because it's a gti
Post by: barelyrelevant on July 17, 2017, 10:49:40 pm
For instance an Integra DC2 holds strong money even though there's the DC5 because it was rawer/had better steering feel which will always have an appeal.
I can't think why someone would choose a mk5 over a newer GTi to help keep the values up?
Post by: willni on July 17, 2017, 11:24:52 pm
I guess it will be hard for even good condition mk5's to hold their value against mk6's and 7's as they don't offer anything special the newer ones don't?
For instance an Integra DC2 holds strong money even though there's the DC5 because it was rawer/had better steering feel which will always have an appeal.
I can't think why someone would choose a mk5 over a newer GTi to help keep the values up?
No offence but by that thinking no one would want to own older cars. I opted for a mk5 because I loved the feel, looks and mechanical nature of this golf, never fell in love with the mk7 even though it would work out cheaper in the long run it's just feels fake like the fake engine noises put into some cars, they're nice but each to their own just felt too electrical for me.
Post by: flashp on July 18, 2017, 06:27:43 pm
I'll second that. I drive a Mk7 GTI and have a modified Mk5 (currently for sale here) and yes, the Mk5 a much more engaging car. Were I not after a sports motorcycle I wouldn't be selling it. The Mk7 is great but it's heavily anesthetized by comparison.I guess it will be hard for even good condition mk5's to hold their value against mk6's and 7's as they don't offer anything special the newer ones don't?
For instance an Integra DC2 holds strong money even though there's the DC5 because it was rawer/had better steering feel which will always have an appeal.
I can't think why someone would choose a mk5 over a newer GTi to help keep the values up?
No offence but by that thinking no one would want to own older cars. I opted for a mk5 because I loved the feel, looks and mechanical nature of this golf, never fell in love with the mk7 even though it would work out cheaper in the long run it's just feels fake like the fake engine noises put into some cars, they're nice but each to their own just felt too electrical for me.
Post by: pudding on July 19, 2017, 04:58:56 pm
@AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926) I doubt the MK3 will ever become more valuable, or the MK4 (except the R32). MK5 possibly as it marked VWs return to form. It's a car with one foot in it's history and one foot in modernity, an 'analog' car. The MK7+ is the 'digital age' and a completely different kettle of fish. I don't really look at them as a 'Golf' any more tbh.....just another VAG product off the never ending conveyor belt.
MK3s rot from the inside out with ruthless efficiency, and MK4s were just boring to drive, but nicely made. Agree on the MK1s and 2s. I had them back in the day, but defo will never be going back there :grin:
Post by: willni on July 19, 2017, 05:12:01 pm
I don't think a MK5 is the car to buy as an investment, it's a car you play with for a while and move on, or keep.
@AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926) I doubt the MK3 will ever become more valuable, or the MK4 (except the R32). MK5 possibly as it marked VWs return to form. It's a car with one foot in it's history and one foot in modernity, an 'analog' car. The MK7+ is the 'digital age' and a completely different kettle of fish. I don't really look at them as a 'Golf' any more tbh.....just another VAG product off the never ending conveyor belt.
MK3s rot from the inside out with ruthless efficiency, and MK4s were just boring to drive, but nicely made. Agree on the MK1s and 2s. I had them back in the day, but defo will never be going back there :grin:
There's no car you can look at, at the time really and say that will only go up in value unless it's the pretty constant Porsche 911 GT3RS. Cars like the E46 M3 and Ford Escort were normal cars in their day and seen as something special the Escort being considered awful, but now they're going up in value.
The mk3 although awful I think the GTI and VR6 will go up in value if in well kept form, the mk4 the R32 and 25th anniversary would go up and the same for the mk5 plus maybe the gti, at the end of the day it's buyers that dictate the the market, once the worse cars drop off and the good ones remain they're be scarce enough and then people who did want one will be thinking maybe I should get one now at the bottom of their depreciation.
Post by: AJP on July 19, 2017, 05:20:18 pm
I agree, the VR6 will at least hold its value. Same for the mk4 Anni, and definitely R32, Pudding.I don't think a MK5 is the car to buy as an investment, it's a car you play with for a while and move on, or keep.
@AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926) I doubt the MK3 will ever become more valuable, or the MK4 (except the R32). MK5 possibly as it marked VWs return to form. It's a car with one foot in it's history and one foot in modernity, an 'analog' car. The MK7+ is the 'digital age' and a completely different kettle of fish. I don't really look at them as a 'Golf' any more tbh.....just another VAG product off the never ending conveyor belt.
MK3s rot from the inside out with ruthless efficiency, and MK4s were just boring to drive, but nicely made. Agree on the MK1s and 2s. I had them back in the day, but defo will never be going back there :grin:
There's no car you can look at, at the time really and say that will only go up in value unless it's the pretty constant Porsche 911 GT3RS. Cars like the E46 M3 and Ford Escort were normal cars in their day and seen as something special the Escort being considered awful, but now they're going up in value.
The mk3 although awful I think the GTI and VR6 will go up in value if in well kept form, the mk4 the R32 and 25th anniversary would go up and the same for the mk5 plus maybe the gti, at the end of the day it's buyers that dictate the the market.
The Ford market has become a bit of a joke. 10-15 years ago a clean Escort Cosworth went for 20k. Now they're selling for 40 plus all day long. Supply and demand dictates that - I assume lots have rotted and died, but I did hear a story about a rich 'collector' buying up as many Cossies, RS Turbos etc as he could, inflating the prices, and basically trying to monopolise the whole market. It sounded a bit far fetched, but looking at how much some old 3dr RS500s have fetched, there may be a slither of truth in it.
Post by: Scottymon on July 19, 2017, 06:59:48 pm
Post by: AJP on July 19, 2017, 08:35:25 pm
And there we have it. 65 thousand pounds. That's just ridiculous.LINK
Post by: TheHutchy on July 19, 2017, 08:45:55 pm
Post by: willni on July 19, 2017, 10:07:41 pm
That's just mad! Wonder why they are selling it if they have kept it for all this time?
It's Parkway so they sourced and it's their business so have to sell it and the first owner probably only took it to the MOT/Service each year and for a drive the couple days after them a year. So at £21k new give or take £1,000 and the original owner probably profited £25,000 after services and mot's. Also the Edition 30 at 11-15 years younger and restricted to 300 less units (at least in the UK), there's hope for anyone with an Edition 30 sub-50k miles (even have the same power standard it's meant to be :signLOL: )
Post by: pudding on July 20, 2017, 09:50:54 am
That's just mad! Wonder why they are selling it if they have kept it for all this time?
Apparently some of the car speculators are suggesting the bubble is about to burst. So I guess the highest priced cars are being moved on quickly before it all comes tumbling down.
I drove an Escort Cossie years ago and remember thinking what an over rated, coarse, wallowy boat it was. Paying £65K for that defies all reason and logic! Still, anything with a remotely interesting history commands a premium these days. MK1 GTI, UR Quattro, Cosworths, Escorts etc. Ford and Cosworth had an interesting alliance, so I guess anything with that badge will command an even bigger premium.
Speaking of Cosworth, they designed the R32's cylinder head, and Audi's original 4.2 V8. Very clever engineers.
Post by: grey golfster on July 20, 2017, 10:40:13 am
I look back at my 67 Cooper S (sold in 80) and 71 TR 6 (sold in 1990) 78 Karmann Beetle cabrio (sold 96) - all immaculate, and weep at what they are "worth" today!
When the TR was selling, I was looking at an e type Jag as a replacement...not a hope in hell nowadays!
Thing is, life gets in the way...mortgages, kids, kids uni etc.....
....And, where to store all your toys meanwhile? Even if (like most of us) you will need the funds locked up those assets to buy some grotty family car/holiday/property etc.
You'll need a dry, airy, secure barn or similar; even then I eventually returned to find my cabby covered in sh1te, from birds nesting in the eaves. I gave up, sold it.
So you'll need to keep loving your toy too...or use a commercial storage facility (£250 a month?)
Imho those that have invested time and money in their cars deserve whatever the market will stand.
However, the classic car "investment" thing has crashed before, and will do so again!
If my ed was low mileage and orig I'd be keeping that, but it's neither!
Post by: willni on July 20, 2017, 10:40:26 am
That's just mad! Wonder why they are selling it if they have kept it for all this time?
Apparently some of the car speculators are suggesting the bubble is about to burst. So I guess the highest priced cars are being moved on quickly before it all comes tumbling down.
I drove an Escort Cossie years ago and remember thinking what an over rated, coarse, wallowy boat it was. Paying £65K for that defies all reason and logic! Still, anything with a remotely interesting history commands a premium these days. MK1 GTI, UR Quattro, Cosworths, Escorts etc. Ford and Cosworth had an interesting alliance, so I guess anything with that badge will command an even bigger premium.
Speaking of Cosworth, they designed the R32's cylinder head, and Audi's original 4.2 V8. Very clever engineers.
Can the bubble really burst? It's not really like the housing boom peoples aren't getting mortgages or loans to buy these kinds of cars. People are buying them because they want them and often the previous owners don't intend on selling them keeping the market low and demand relatively high.
Speaking of the alliance of Cosworth, the Mercedes Cosworth is another car that's gone up massively in price up to £250,000 for a collectors piece. Which I think isn't actually that great a car think it's just aged badly because it was so technically advanced in it's day, (they even had air suspension).
Side note if the classic market does crash I'm sure the worst to be hit will be Jay Leno
Post by: pudding on July 20, 2017, 10:58:21 am
That's just mad! Wonder why they are selling it if they have kept it for all this time?
Apparently some of the car speculators are suggesting the bubble is about to burst. So I guess the highest priced cars are being moved on quickly before it all comes tumbling down.
I drove an Escort Cossie years ago and remember thinking what an over rated, coarse, wallowy boat it was. Paying £65K for that defies all reason and logic! Still, anything with a remotely interesting history commands a premium these days. MK1 GTI, UR Quattro, Cosworths, Escorts etc. Ford and Cosworth had an interesting alliance, so I guess anything with that badge will command an even bigger premium.
Speaking of Cosworth, they designed the R32's cylinder head, and Audi's original 4.2 V8. Very clever engineers.
Can the bubble really burst? It's not really like the housing boom peoples aren't getting mortgages or loans to buy these kinds of cars. People are buying them because they want them and often the previous owners don't intend on selling them keeping the market low and demand relatively high.
Speaking of the alliance of Cosworth, the Mercedes Cosworth is another car that's gone up massively in price up to £250,000 for a collectors piece. Which I think isn't actually that great a car think it's just aged badly because it was so technically advanced in it's day, (they even had air suspension).
Side note if the classic market does crash I'm sure the worst to be hit will be Jay Leno
Not so much the classic car market per se, but car flipping in general, where certain cars are bought purely for profit. The 911 R being a good recent example of that! It will surely have a knock on effect with grossly overpriced cars in general, like that £65K Escort. I can't imagine anyone wants to buy an example like that to drive around daily in! Cars like that are purely for collectors / speculators. I know the old adage "An item is worth what someone is willing to pay" is true, but ridiculously overpriced cars isn't sustainable when wages have stagnated and the world is in civil unrest....blah blah!
I always preferred the 190E Cosworth over the Sierra Cosworth for some reason, even though the latter was more successful on the race track.
Post by: willni on July 20, 2017, 11:17:25 am
That's just mad! Wonder why they are selling it if they have kept it for all this time?
Apparently some of the car speculators are suggesting the bubble is about to burst. So I guess the highest priced cars are being moved on quickly before it all comes tumbling down.
I drove an Escort Cossie years ago and remember thinking what an over rated, coarse, wallowy boat it was. Paying £65K for that defies all reason and logic! Still, anything with a remotely interesting history commands a premium these days. MK1 GTI, UR Quattro, Cosworths, Escorts etc. Ford and Cosworth had an interesting alliance, so I guess anything with that badge will command an even bigger premium.
Speaking of Cosworth, they designed the R32's cylinder head, and Audi's original 4.2 V8. Very clever engineers.
Can the bubble really burst? It's not really like the housing boom peoples aren't getting mortgages or loans to buy these kinds of cars. People are buying them because they want them and often the previous owners don't intend on selling them keeping the market low and demand relatively high.
Speaking of the alliance of Cosworth, the Mercedes Cosworth is another car that's gone up massively in price up to £250,000 for a collectors piece. Which I think isn't actually that great a car think it's just aged badly because it was so technically advanced in it's day, (they even had air suspension).
Side note if the classic market does crash I'm sure the worst to be hit will be Jay Leno
Not so much the classic car market per se, but car flipping in general, where certain cars are bought purely for profit. The 911 R being a good recent example of that! It will surely have a knock on effect with grossly overpriced cars in general, like that £65K Escort. I can't imagine anyone wants to buy an example like that to drive around daily in! Cars like that are purely for collectors / speculators. I know the old adage "An item is worth what someone is willing to pay" is true, but ridiculously overpriced cars isn't sustainable when wages have stagnated and the world is in civil unrest....blah blah!
I always preferred the 190E Cosworth over the Sierra Cosworth for some reason, even though the latter was more successful on the race track.
Speaking of the Porsche. Porsche themselves have started to set about trying stop people buying their top models like the 911R and flipping them for profit, as they want the price to remain the price from new or less. I suspect there will be a clause in buying them that stipulates Porsche must over see all future sales of the car by acting as a middle man.
Personally I think people should look after these kinds of cars to the best of their ability, not don't drive it but don't drive it into the ground by treating it as a work van, but then there's those people you see on the comments on facebook saying "If I won the lottery I'd buy this 1,000 mile e-type jag and burn it out to teach everyone a lesson".
As with the wages stagnated and civil unrest etc you can't do much about it it's like saying the london riots were caused by a little girl dropping her ice cream in Scotland then again the butterfly effect... :confused: We all just have to get on with it until the news drops a lot of it's stories like they did with ebola in West Africa.
Post by: AJP on July 20, 2017, 11:21:22 am
As for the Escort Cosworth itself, as much as it probably wouldn't stack up too well against say the latest Focus RS, it's one hell of a relevant car in terms of moving the whole hot hatch game on in the 90s. I say hot hatch, even though it was actually a Sierra with Escort body panels.
It's always been a bit of a halo car, hence why it's never depreciated. But 65 grand, put simply, is the world gone mad.
Post by: pudding on July 20, 2017, 12:21:17 pm
Yeah the Cossie is a Halo car for sure. Not for me personally it isn't, I prefer the UR Quattro, but I can see why they're sought after.
Post by: willni on July 20, 2017, 12:49:17 pm
From what I've understood from various articles and YouTube clips, Porsche had a hand in that flipping debacle! Only sending the 500 units to 'chosen' dealers around the globe.....dealers who just happened to have a preferential client list.....who just happened to be rich speculators. Poor old Joe Public who had the money for one, and just fancied it as an enthusiast.....were priced out of the opportunity because the speculators were paying way over list, and getting 1st dibs anyway.
Yeah the Cossie is a Halo car for sure. Not for me personally it isn't, I prefer the UR Quattro, but I can see why they're sought after.
True at least VW had the right idea with the edition 40 and clubsport S first come first served.
Post by: pudding on July 20, 2017, 01:39:35 pm
From what I've understood from various articles and YouTube clips, Porsche had a hand in that flipping debacle! Only sending the 500 units to 'chosen' dealers around the globe.....dealers who just happened to have a preferential client list.....who just happened to be rich speculators. Poor old Joe Public who had the money for one, and just fancied it as an enthusiast.....were priced out of the opportunity because the speculators were paying way over list, and getting 1st dibs anyway.
Yeah the Cossie is a Halo car for sure. Not for me personally it isn't, I prefer the UR Quattro, but I can see why they're sought after.
True at least VW had the right idea with the edition 40 and clubsport S first come first served.
I don't see the appeal of the R anyway, a de-RS'd RS with 1980s seat cloth and a manual gearbox....and some pretty natty 1980s stripes!
The clubsport S is a fine thing. It's on the DriveTribe channel as one of the greatest cars of all time, not just greatest 'FWD' car. VW haven't been up there at the top with their GTIs for decades, so was good to see it getting some big praise! VW are making the 'S' parts either prohibitively expensive to retrofit, or not available for after sales purchase, which is good. It stops fakery. My local dealer had an 'Edition 30' in recently, but was actually a diesel when the bonnet was lifted :grin:
Post by: willni on July 20, 2017, 01:51:47 pm
From what I've understood from various articles and YouTube clips, Porsche had a hand in that flipping debacle! Only sending the 500 units to 'chosen' dealers around the globe.....dealers who just happened to have a preferential client list.....who just happened to be rich speculators. Poor old Joe Public who had the money for one, and just fancied it as an enthusiast.....were priced out of the opportunity because the speculators were paying way over list, and getting 1st dibs anyway.
Yeah the Cossie is a Halo car for sure. Not for me personally it isn't, I prefer the UR Quattro, but I can see why they're sought after.
True at least VW had the right idea with the edition 40 and clubsport S first come first served.
I don't see the appeal of the R anyway, a de-RS'd RS with 1980s seat cloth and a manual gearbox....and some pretty natty 1980s stripes!
The clubsport S is a fine thing. It's on the DriveTribe channel as one of the greatest cars of all time, not just greatest 'FWD' car. VW haven't been up there at the top with their GTIs for decades, so was good to see it getting some big praise! VW are making the 'S' parts either prohibitively expensive to retrofit, or not available for after sales purchase, which is good. It stops fakery. My local dealer had an 'Edition 30' in recently, but was actually a diesel when the bonnet was lifted :grin:
I actually like the 911R, porsche in any of their forms just drive like nothing else they're pure, also like the styling it's like the Rs but more subtle like the Edition 30 compared to the R32 similar but ones louds and chromed the other subtle and blends in.
I'm glad VW are making it to Clubsport S can't be copied, copies definitely do take away from genuine versions of any car, not much but it's generally the copies like diesels that aren't looked after and make a bad impression.
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