MK5 Golf GTI

General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: MAT ED30 on February 09, 2010, 06:38:48 pm

Title: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 09, 2010, 06:38:48 pm
Well they are on  :jumpmove: so this will be an on going review  :driver:

This is the all new VWR/Caparo brakes yes the guys that make this  :evilgrin:
http://www.caparo-t1.com/
VWR & Caparo have teamed up to make a a new set of Brakes for the Mk5 chassis and they borrowed my car for a few days to get all the info they needed for the brakes and this is what they came up with  :evilgrin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fwheelassy2.jpg&hash=a44fda662487e1ee73e75d001fa1003de253858d)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2FBellVWR.jpg&hash=86add18317bda593f8fcc5897c1cfd73a40b723f)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2FBrktVWR.jpg&hash=6459f2feff330e6bd18c21a1c276321fc037a5a9)

and here is the info from vwr
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/Golf%205%20Pages/Golf%20Brakes%20Kit.html

and this is the set i am running
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fphoto-11.jpg&hash=9a030967d3e00725662d805c561e2f09af899db0)

and a quick pic of them on the car
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fphoto-10.jpg&hash=597101506187d226bfdbca6ec2e3c50d6867dfb7)

i will take some better pics tomorrow as the car is filthy and so are the brakes  :ashamed:
first thoughts are they are stunning  :love: and they use caparo's own dot 4 fluid and they have Ferodo ds2500 pads in them too so i am just bedding them in over the next few days and will add this as we go  :happy2: and just to add that the ones on my car are the first ones to be made and will be changed to the new bells with the vwr logo stamped on them as VWR want to see how i get on with them over the next couple of weeks  :smiley:

Disc and bell 7.04kgs and 4.92kgs for the caliper total 11.96kgs
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 09, 2010, 06:55:32 pm
aha finally!

they look rather good tho. nice one.  :happy2:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 09, 2010, 07:09:01 pm
Big thanks to Mat,Simon,Legs  :laugh: and the little boy  :laugh:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Hedge on February 09, 2010, 07:13:45 pm
Are these the same as the ones at the Autosports show?

They looked very impressive there. :happy2:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 09, 2010, 07:15:46 pm
Are these the same as the ones at the Autosports show?

They looked very impressive there. :happy2:

Yes mate they are the same
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 09, 2010, 07:23:49 pm
do fancy a set of these behind the VWR wheels too.... so £2500 + VAT roughly...

do they do free fitting?
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 09, 2010, 07:33:10 pm
do fancy a set of these behind the VWR wheels too.... so £2500 + VAT roughly...

do they do free fitting?

i am sure if you give Mat a call on 01908210077 he will be able to talk figures with u  :happy2:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 09, 2010, 07:42:35 pm
yeah will go see them when the next batch of wheels arrive me thinks and cut some kinda deal.  :happy2:

EDIT: just realised will have to budget for 4 x 19inch tyres too! that £1k is wheels only!  :signLOL:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: gillm on February 09, 2010, 08:56:41 pm
you can afford it lee

get the deal done !
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Greeners on February 09, 2010, 09:36:22 pm
Big thanks to Mat,Simon,Legs  :laugh: and the little boy  :laugh:

Have his coffee making skills improved?  :grin:

They look ace mate, I bet your well chuffed!  :happy2:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: VC on February 09, 2010, 09:37:01 pm
mate...  :jumping:

bout time, bet youre stoked  :pomppomp:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 09, 2010, 09:49:25 pm
Congrats MATT!!!  :wink:

How do they feel...and what brake fluid did you use?

Also, do you know the individual size and arrangement of the pistons?  Want to compare the setup to my Hi-Spec "death wish" brake kit.   :driver:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 09, 2010, 09:50:30 pm
so £2500 + VAT roughly...

sh!t the bed thats a lot of cash. im sure they are excellent but thats nuts.  ive gone for the B7 RS4 kit off daveB.  with new discks it will be a third of that price.  

wonder what the going rate is for replacment discs and pads are come the end of their life?
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 09, 2010, 10:11:11 pm
I think u read that wrong vrsy
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 09, 2010, 10:15:02 pm
yeah my £2.5k + VAT includes £1k for the VWR wheels  :smiley:

the BBK is £1.5k + VAT. Not bad when you think they're 6 pots.
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 09, 2010, 10:16:38 pm
ah wheels as well :ashamed:
Ill just call a (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parma-airport.it%2Fimmagini%2Ftaxi.jpg&hash=96544e79feefc51379aecdbef5d3c966f9817d06)

£1500 isnt to bad though.  still twice what ill be running though, although there are 4 more pots in the VWR kit
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 10, 2010, 09:46:42 am
Big thanks to Mat,Simon,Legs  :laugh: and the little boy  :laugh:

Have his coffee making skills improved?  :grin:

They look ace mate, I bet your well chuffed!  :happy2:

he offered to make me one but i said its ok i will make it myself  :grin:

Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: john_o on February 10, 2010, 12:19:24 pm
any weights Matt to compare to OE ?
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 10, 2010, 01:05:20 pm
any weights Matt to compare to OE ?

not on me but i will ask  :happy2: and get the info needed
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 10, 2010, 10:02:53 pm
Ooooooh! Very tasty brakes - They look the business.

If I hadn't already got my AP Racing BBK I'd find these impossible to resist. Your car just gets better and better, Mat  :happy2:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: john_o on February 10, 2010, 10:12:03 pm
thanks Matt  :happy2:
Title: Re: VWR Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 10, 2010, 10:24:51 pm
thanks Matt  :happy2:

i have the stock ones in a box and god the are heavy  :surprised:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 11, 2010, 12:37:14 am

i have the stock ones in a box and god the are heavy  :surprised:


....About 15 Kg each!
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 11, 2010, 01:36:23 pm
Disc and bell 7.04kgs and 4.92kgs for the caliper total 11.96kgs
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: T88OMM on February 11, 2010, 02:00:04 pm
Very jealous my Northern friend, you'll have to take me out when I next see you  :wink:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 11, 2010, 08:01:57 pm

Disc and bell 7.04kgs and 4.92kgs for the caliper total 11.96kgs


....My AP Racing fronts total 10.6 Kg each  :P  :booty:

But they're only 4-pot  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jhtrophy on February 11, 2010, 08:09:07 pm
about time!!! 330bhp and them brakes was not good, can still see you spittin on them at mallory when they were on fire :signLOL: tool!
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 11, 2010, 08:14:29 pm
about time!!! 330bhp and them brakes was not good, can still see you spittin on them at mallory when they were on fire :signLOL: tool!
:signLOL: that was funny  :signLOL: never again  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Hedge on February 11, 2010, 09:42:28 pm
Very jealous my Northern friend, you'll have to take me out when I next see you  :wink:

Christ sake Tom at least play a little hard to get.  :wink:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 11, 2010, 09:44:49 pm
Very jealous my Northern friend, you'll have to take me out when I next see you  :wink:

Christ sake Tom at least play a little hard to get.  :wink:
:signLOL:

anytime Tomm as u have my number  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Decked on February 12, 2010, 02:42:22 pm
Very nice mate!  Just need some closeup pics now.....   :P
What wheels are u running?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 12, 2010, 04:17:23 pm
Very nice mate!  Just need some closeup pics now.....   :P
What wheels are u running?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2FDSCF0456.jpg&hash=9c545a44cae5eee2f350446d8accc1a07a9ba44b)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jonnyc on February 12, 2010, 04:21:04 pm

Disc and bell 7.04kgs and 4.92kgs for the caliper total 11.96kgs


....My AP Racing fronts total 10.6 Kg each  :P  :booty:

But they're only 4-pot  :happy2:

I wont tell you how much the Mu's weight ;)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 12, 2010, 04:42:20 pm
i know i had them in my hands and was going to buy some but the option of brakes made by Caparo came up well how could i say no and they are made in the uk so no jap on my car  :P
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jonnyc on February 12, 2010, 04:46:35 pm
i know i had them in my hands and was going to buy some but the option of brakes made by Caparo came well how could i say no and they are made in the uk so no jap on my car  :P

They looked great when I had a nosey at the show..  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 12, 2010, 04:49:26 pm
i know i had them in my hands and was going to buy some but the option of brakes made by Caparo came well how could i say no and they are made in the uk so no jap on my car  :P

They looked great when I had a nosey at the show..  :happy2:

i am mega happy mate and we all know VWR wont sell crap that they can not test to death on the track and on the road so even if you want the older vwr brake or the new ones like me you cant go wrong at all  :notworthy:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jonnyc on February 12, 2010, 04:56:16 pm
i am mega happy mate and we all know VWR wont sell crap that they can not test to death on the track and on the road so even if you want the older vwr brake or the new ones like me you cant go wrong at all  :notworthy:

True true..  :happy2: Glad your pleased with them..
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on February 23, 2010, 11:54:23 pm
congrats on your brake kit

Today i just payed for my VW Racing brake kit. I own a 2009 Skoda Octavia vRS. I got my calipers painted in custom blue. Hope to receive them next week. I can't wait, i've waited  2 months for them

Sorry for my english, i live in Romania
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 24, 2010, 08:55:18 am
You are going to love them teff they are awesome
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on February 24, 2010, 09:42:55 am
what pads do you have? DS2500? I ordered an extra set of DS3000 because this year i'm going to Nurburgring  :driver:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 24, 2010, 09:51:29 am
what pads do you have? DS2500? I ordered an extra set of DS3000 because this year i'm going to Nurburgring  :driver:

same as me i have both too but ds2500 are in them now. You are going to love them  :evilgrin: the stopping force is simply awesome
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: dan.payne on February 24, 2010, 02:15:34 pm
Very nice mate!  Just need some closeup pics now.....   :P
What wheels are u running?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2FDSCF0456.jpg&hash=9c545a44cae5eee2f350446d8accc1a07a9ba44b)

I do like these  :drool:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 24, 2010, 02:17:07 pm
so ditch the s3/cupra set up and jump on board  :evilgrin: they are very special  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 26, 2010, 01:34:25 pm
MATT, what's the offset of your alloys, and what is the recommended offset for the kit to have enough clearance?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 26, 2010, 01:39:46 pm
MATT, what's the offset of your alloys, and what is the recommended offset for the kit to have enough clearance?

these fit behind oe wheels  :smiley: well they do when the new carriers go on  :laugh:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on February 27, 2010, 08:50:12 pm
i just received my BBS CH 18x8J ET50. Do you think i will have clearance problems?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 27, 2010, 09:02:15 pm
^^^ No you shouldn't have clearance issues with those wheels, as Matt said they are designed to fit under the OEM wheels such as the similar Edition 30 BBS pescara which is 18x7.5" 51ET  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 27, 2010, 10:00:43 pm
^^^ No you shouldn't have clearance issues with those wheels, as Matt said they are designed to fit under the OEM wheels such as the similar Edition 30 BBS pescara which is 18x7.5" 51ET  :happy2:

thanks for that mate  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on February 28, 2010, 02:27:36 am
thank you so much guys. if only i would have found this forum earlier :grin:.
On 4th March i will receive them. Hope the blue colour of the calipers matches perfectly with my car colour  :driver:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 28, 2010, 05:09:49 pm
thank you so much guys. if only i would have found this forum earlier :grin:.
On 4th March i will receive them. Hope the blue colour of the calipers matches perfectly with my car colour  :driver:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fphoto-6.jpg&hash=0a7f923ef659e44195e073230d4d03f8cd56b1fe)

caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 28, 2010, 05:25:29 pm
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left  :happy2:

Really I wondered what that round thing was  :P :P :P
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 28, 2010, 05:29:34 pm
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left  :happy2:

Really I wondered what that round thing was  :P :P :P

could be a plate  :popcornsoda: :party:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 28, 2010, 06:09:38 pm
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left  :happy2:

Really I wondered what that round thing was  :P :P :P

could be a plate  :popcornsoda: :party:

now there's a design philosophy for a new range of Tableware  :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 28, 2010, 06:31:48 pm
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left  :happy2:

Really I wondered what that round thing was  :P :P :P

could be a plate  :popcornsoda: :party:

now there's a design philosophy for a new range of Tableware  :signLOL:

....Methinks it's already been done: Traditional Japanese Samurai blade technology plus design by Ferdinand Porsche. Excellent kitchen and dining knives.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on February 28, 2010, 11:23:34 pm
wow! they look awesome.  :drool:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 28, 2010, 11:33:13 pm
wow! they look awesome.  :drool:

u will be very happy with them  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 01, 2010, 12:38:12 am
thanks guys, i'll post pictures when they arrive

MAT, on rear do you have the stock brakes? I just bought R32 rear brake kit, with Zimmermann discs
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 01, 2010, 08:29:27 am
thanks guys, i'll post pictures when they arrive

MAT, on rear do you have the stock brakes? I just bought R32 rear brake kit, with Zimmermann discs

stock rears as i wanted to see how they got on with oe rear brakes  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 02, 2010, 01:37:47 am
 :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Poppa Dom on March 02, 2010, 08:35:03 am
And how are the brakes with stock rear set up Matt, initial thoughts?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 02, 2010, 10:53:48 am
And how are the brakes with stoke rear set up Matt, initial thoughts?

not driven it mega hard yet but, but when pushing on its perfect on the rear and i dont think the rears are needed for road use unless going on track but even then vwr dont change the rears as they said they dont need to
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 02, 2010, 04:11:35 pm
MAT, are you using your stock brake lines? Or got something more performant?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 02, 2010, 04:29:24 pm
MAT, are you using your stock brake lines? Or got something more performant?

all stock on the rear as i want to see just what the front brakes do with oe rears i might change the rear discs and pads at some point but for now they are fantastic. I wont know how the rears get on until i do a track day
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 03, 2010, 12:21:23 am
I mean, the brake kit from VWR comes with more performant brake lines? (i.e: Goodridge) Or i have to use my front stock brake lines?
 
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Poppa Dom on March 03, 2010, 07:53:21 am
Yes, VWR brake kit comes with braided lines.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 03, 2010, 08:24:18 am
Thanks Dom  :drinking: also comes with better brake fluid 
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on March 03, 2010, 09:30:38 am
Regarding whether non-stock rear brakes are needed or wanted or not (more for track/Ring), IF needed I reckon ventilated rear discs are the key to it. So, VAG R32 or S3 rears would be a good solution.

I'm not an expert but I know a man who is (DaveB) and I think it's what he would advise.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 03, 2010, 11:13:37 am
the rear brakes dont do that much work u know, infact after a good thrash  :driver: check them to see how hot they are and turn your traction control off too  :driver:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 03, 2010, 11:24:27 am
Bottle top rear stoppers are where it's at - save weight and MTFU!
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 03, 2010, 11:25:50 am
Bottle top rear stoppers are where it's at - save weight and MTFU!
:notworthy:  :laugh:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 03, 2010, 03:37:55 pm
I got my set through from matt last week, got them straight on and there mega!

I just went for the DS3000 pads as it regularly gets the pads cleared  :wink: the stopping force is awesome!
Still on standard rears too and really cant see the point in uprating them!

Dropped in to see Matt on Monday so they could see the first set of customer fitted brakes  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 03, 2010, 03:44:31 pm
so bang a pic up and let them look  :wink: glad your happy mate  :smiley: i love em big time, also dont u think they are well made  :drool: so happy vwr and caparo got together on this  :congrats:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 03, 2010, 03:59:44 pm
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/Tuning%20General%20Pages/Big%20Brake%20Break%20Out%20Page.html

bit more info
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 03, 2010, 04:28:01 pm
got the brakes earlier than expected  :drool: :drool: :drool: words are useless right now. Thank you VWR
Brake Kit + Goodridge Lines + DS2500 & DS3000 = me happy  :happy2:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg687.imageshack.us%2Fimg687%2F4034%2F03032010207.th.jpg&hash=c2af9ce7ba7e4c5af8a529cff93fb6695f8b607a) (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/03032010207.jpg/)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on March 03, 2010, 06:07:40 pm
ah stopping posting pics of the VWR brakes man........its making me wanna buy a set   :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 03, 2010, 06:12:52 pm
do it  :drool:  :grin:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 03, 2010, 09:22:44 pm
 :congrats: :congrats: they are awesome mate  :congrats: u will love them
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 04, 2010, 10:10:03 am
The car is a little dirty at the moment.... but here you go
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft95%2Fjabbalad%2FDSC00538.jpg&hash=a231b5b1c205468c8e0d8db650870605d2af9e93)
and the rest of the car :)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft95%2Fjabbalad%2FDSC00540.jpg&hash=7fe780588a0add629c8b85d39c2f210fd0406bbf)

I should really update my build thread at some point...
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 04, 2010, 10:28:04 am
 :drool: :drool:
nice one mate they look  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 04, 2010, 11:34:55 am
jabbalad love your brakes :drool:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: owen lcr on March 04, 2010, 05:03:16 pm
they look superb, i wonder if they sell the discs on their own? and wonder how much they are
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 04, 2010, 08:20:04 pm
Did you guys made some upgrade to your brake fluid pump? After mounting VWR Brakes. Because someone told me it is needed :confused:.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 04, 2010, 08:24:49 pm
no they dont the kit was made to work in sync with all the stock braking setup ie abs and everything else
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: owen lcr on March 04, 2010, 08:55:29 pm
Aw right ok, dont all aftermarket brake setups work with the ABS... i have just bought a set of brakes from the for sale section and i am now a bit worried that they wont work with the cars ABS etc
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 04, 2010, 08:59:38 pm
the rs4 stoppers? the will be fine
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 04, 2010, 09:48:04 pm
again thank you MAT. These days you gave me some good answers. Thanks again
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: owen lcr on March 04, 2010, 09:59:58 pm
yeah i bought them, was apprehensive before i bought them but glad i did in the end. just cant wait to get them now
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 04, 2010, 10:44:09 pm
again thank you MAT. These days you gave me some good answers. Thanks again

my pleasure  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 04, 2010, 11:06:44 pm
yeah i bought them, was apprehensive before i bought them but glad i did in the end. just cant wait to get them now

best decision  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: owen lcr on March 05, 2010, 10:07:18 am
cheers, will get some photos up when on. if i didnt get these it would have defo been the VWR set, they look like a quality piece of kit
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RobH on March 05, 2010, 06:40:50 pm
cheers, will get some photos up when on. if i didnt get these it would have defo been the VWR set, they look like a quality piece of kit

Jesus Owen your throwing some money at it of late arn't you :notworthy:.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: owen lcr on March 05, 2010, 07:39:37 pm
 :laugh:  well up till now i have spent money on speed, so not its time for handling, grip and brakes. cant wait now.   :jumping:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 09, 2010, 06:49:02 pm
MAT, for the winter you got 18"wheels to fit the brakes? I haven't put them on the car, i'm waiting for the snow to go away :jumping:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 09, 2010, 08:13:41 pm
MAT, for the winter you got 18"wheels to fit the brakes? I haven't put them on the car, i'm waiting for the snow to go away :jumping:

yes mate 18s or up only for these brakes  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on March 09, 2010, 10:05:25 pm
you gonna test these brakes at a track day any time soon Mat?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 09, 2010, 10:13:56 pm
you gonna test these brakes at a track day any time soon Mat?

been a tad busy to get to a track  :sad1: but i will at some point soon its just not been easy at the mo  :sad1:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 10, 2010, 12:19:49 am
i'm going from from 28th April - 2nd May to Nurburgring with my friends. That is the ultimate track test for the brakes.
MAT what do you think, after some laps with the DS3000 pads i will have to change the discs? Some people say that i have to change them because the DS3000 pads does some powerfull braking

ps: sorry for bad english
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 10, 2010, 04:40:22 pm
I will be doing a few trackdays over here, and a few demo days on the New Arena GP circuit at silverstone in the Leon and the Golf! then im off to the ring on the 21-25th may, will be on the GP circuit on the monday.  :smiley:

Busy few Months with testing to fit in for the racing too!! :laugh:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Beddie on March 10, 2010, 06:14:33 pm
then im off to the ring on the 21-25th may, will be on the GP circuit on the monday.  :smiley:



I'll keep an eye on my mirrors for when you overtake me like last year then  :ashamed:  :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 10, 2010, 07:14:05 pm
Aye, we're all out there again that weekend Luke - we'll say hi if we see you.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 10, 2010, 07:50:16 pm
going to try make this too  :grin:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 11, 2010, 09:29:30 am
Aye, we're all out there again that weekend Luke - we'll say hi if we see you.

Haha what a coincidence... again  :smiley:
I will have to come get some pics with you lot this year  :smiley:
I should have a passenger seat free at times over the weekend too  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 11, 2010, 10:55:57 am
Aye, we're all out there again that weekend Luke - we'll say hi if we see you.

Haha what a coincidence... again  :smiley:
I will have to come get some pics with you lot this year  :smiley:
I should have a passenger seat free at times over the weekend too  :happy2:

Yeah, seems a popular weekend, as the TF is open for 4 days along with the GP circuit. Should be a good trip.

I'll deffo grab a PAX lap  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 15, 2010, 07:15:41 pm
today i went to mount the brakes, but after i put only a disc and a caliper i've observed that there is no centering hub (hope is correct) left to where i can center the wheels. I've ordered a custom piece and hope that tomorrow i can finish with this.
 (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?0ea448c09c.jpg[img=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.0ea448c09c.jpg)

[img=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.e1f5b4e589.jpg] (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?e1f5b4e589.jpg)

[img=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.59a42f45bf.jpg] (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?59a42f45bf.jpg)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 15, 2010, 07:22:03 pm
is the centre bore not the same with the vrs? i will show mat the pic tomorrow  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on March 15, 2010, 07:34:31 pm
is the centre bore not the same with the vrs? i will show mat the pic tomorrow  :happy2:

I noticed this when at VWR last week, Matt assured me that VWR had experienced no problems at all due to the lack of a mounting Spigot, it is due to VWR making the disc Bell thicker (therefore incorporating a spacer).

Matt assured no problems.
 :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 15, 2010, 07:44:29 pm
nice one i am down having my new bells fitted and calipers over the next few weeks but will at the track tomorrow with him so will have a chat
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 15, 2010, 08:14:12 pm
is the centre bore not the same with the vrs? i will show mat the pic tomorrow  :happy2:

is about the length of the center bore. there is no length remain on which i can put the wheel on. I cannot  fit the wheel only on the bolts because they would brake.

ps: sorry for my english, i'm trying to do my best
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 15, 2010, 08:20:01 pm
another picture, i hope you understand what i am talking about
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freeimagehosting.net%2Fuploads%2F6e19f20262.jpg&hash=255ad87e7db07735bca7ee47091a037d7628aa5e) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 15, 2010, 08:25:41 pm
yes i will show him the pics but i would not worry about that as once the wheels are bolted on they would never ever move
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 15, 2010, 08:37:08 pm
for extra safety i ordered a custom-made piece, like an extension to the center bore. I will post pictures with it tomorrow. Hope i can solve this problem
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 16, 2010, 09:31:41 am
I mentioned this to matt when i went over to see him,
In theory it should be ok without the centre spigot as long as you keep checking the bolts are tight, but then again its there for a reason! I was thinking about machining the spacer off of the bell and just fitting my eibach spacers with the centre spigot again.

It wouldn't be a massive amount of hassle for them to have a spigot machined onto the bell when its first made tho,

Or you could change to studs and nuts on the hub  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 16, 2010, 09:57:24 am
I see what they've done and understand why, and I'd prefer that to spacers, but I'd still want a spigot regardless. What's this custom piece Teff, can you link it for others?

What does that change the effective ET to then? It might be worth them telling people, as if they're close to the limit already with say my wheels for example on an ET42.. it could push them out too wide.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 16, 2010, 10:09:44 am
in this moment i'm going to the tuning shop to see if i got the piece. I don't know how to tell it in English, later i will post the picture and try to explain. Is it like an extension to the centering hub so that the Hub Centric Ring can be mounted on it and after that, the wheel to be fixed on it.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justforwheels.com%2Fimages%2Fhow4.jpg&hash=6be0f71212ae5f60fe40f71ba38fa7904e8902e8)

So, this is what i understood from your explanation: they made that disc bell, or how is it called, a little bit thicker so that aftermarket spacers won't be needed. Am i right?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 16, 2010, 10:32:36 am
Yes, that is right. The alloy bell that holds the rotor/disc is thicker to push the wheel out further and stop the back of the wheel hitting the caliper. An in-built spacer.

In the opposite, my bells are quite thin, so I have to either use a 3mm spacer or get a bigger offset wheel - but I still have a full spigot to mount on.

It's just 2 different ways of fixing the problem of caliper clearance.

I think I know what you mean by the part, it is like a piece of tube that extends the spigot? That'll be fine, it's only to stop wheel wobble at high speed, the bolts once tight will do all the important work.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 16, 2010, 10:41:13 am
yes toni, you're right. That's the piece.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 16, 2010, 12:35:11 pm
Ok stop worrying about it I have just had a bell and a hub in my hands and they have the gap at the top but they sit tight to the hub and don't move at all. These are on most of the vwr race cars and I am just watching them racing/testing on them now and trust me the race drivers love em and they don't move a single mm so just don't worry about them at all
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 16, 2010, 12:56:04 pm
I think he's talking more about the spigot not sticking out enough to mount the wheel on, rather than the bell/hub.

Where are you testing?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 16, 2010, 01:09:08 pm
Oh I get u now. Over at oulton park today
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 16, 2010, 01:40:12 pm
You should have said, I'd have come over - how long you there for? I must bust the office....
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 16, 2010, 02:25:10 pm
You should have said, I'd have come over - how long you there for? I must bust the office....

will text u next time  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 16, 2010, 07:10:11 pm
I think he's talking more about the spigot not sticking out enough to mount the wheel on, rather than the bell/hub.

Where are you testing?

this is exactly what i was talking about. I just got home, i'll make a shower and go out to test them. First impression is that i have a vibration in the wheel when i push the brake pedal. I just made 10 km. This night i will do about 200km. I hope that after some serious braking everything will be ok

More impressions later.. :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 16, 2010, 11:58:32 pm
First impressions after 100 km: A lot of problems:

1. Excepting the fact that the spigot is not sticking out enough to mount the wheel on and i made a custom piece on CNC machine, like an extension of the spigot.

2. At speeds beyond 50 km/h if i press the brake pedal the car starts to vibrate very powerfull, it is like the disc was deformed. The steering wheel vibrates very strong, the car vibrates.

3. When i steer left at maximum something is rubbing at my left wheel. When i steer right at maximum there is no rubbing. I sounds like metal on metal  :scared:

4. The brake pedal feedback is very low, i have to push it very well for the brake to actionate

What i think that is the reasons are:


1. The vibrations could be from the custom piece. In the brake kit it was included a set of bolts longer than the normal ones. Could it be that there are strong enough to hold the wheel without the custom piece to be fitted? Could the bolts be forged?

2.  A fabrication fault of the brake discs

I attached some pictures of the spigot with the OEM disc mounted, a picture of the spigot with the VWR disc, 2 picture with the custom made piece
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 17, 2010, 12:01:28 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F16032010247.jpg&hash=6ff14f39fa105b04295765c5ec2627368d93d39c)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F16032010246.jpg&hash=b531db116765eb1b742a6061895b13d6937baeeb)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F16032010244.jpg&hash=cbe65e1e482b7baf17d76c6feb10d458f9be1e1a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F16032010242.jpg&hash=7e4e55a4a424fc99e623b6d6a621f2c4b9ebf6ff)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F16032010241.jpg&hash=bc319bd95025755d215d1caca4aef574c1357baa)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F15032010238-2.jpg&hash=0dcdedbf70a0944821659d1c3db5fb484d3877b1)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on March 17, 2010, 08:25:22 am
TEFF, with all those problems you list, your best bet is to go back to VWR and see what they can do. They'll want to solve these problems and are always very helpful in my experience.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 17, 2010, 08:33:00 am
been running mine for a while and they have been fantastic and i can drive them crazy hard but as Robin has said give Mat at vwr a call as thats not good as i think the spigot ring you have fitted will be making the car vibrate so get it off and bolt the wheels on without the ring and see if that helps.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 17, 2010, 08:41:51 am
i have sent what u said to Mat for u  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 17, 2010, 09:30:02 am
TEFF, with all those problems you list, your best bet is to go back to VWR and see what they can do. They'll want to solve these problems and are always very helpful in my experience.

I'm from Romania and i cannot go all the way to UK  :grin:. I know they are helpful, that's why i don't want to give up so easy with these brakes

i have sent what u said to Mat for u  :happy2:

The only person with which i talked all the way from the beginning from VWR is Sam Roach. I don't know a guy called Mat :sad1:

Thanks for the help guys

been running mine for a while and they have been fantastic and i can drive them crazy hard but as Robin has said give Mat at vwr a call as thats not good as i think the spigot ring you have fitted will be making the car vibrate so get it off and bolt the wheels on without the ring and see if that helps.


I would not like to try this method until i'm 100% sure that it  is safe. Until i get this sorted out i will not drive outside the city
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 17, 2010, 09:39:17 am
Teff, the bolts will be strong enough - try removing your spigot addition and just be very careful to torque the wheels (with them off the ground for the first bit) a little at a time, picking an opposite bolt each time.

So 12 o'clock bolt. then the 5 o'clock, then 10, then 2 then 7 - it'll naturally pull the wheel central.

Rubbing noise might just be the screw in the arch liner, as you've increase the track width of the car.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 17, 2010, 09:47:52 am
As Mike says above and if its Sam your dealing with then thats fine but if u speak to Sam and i send the info to Mat we have both people covered  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 17, 2010, 10:01:39 am
Teff, the bolts will be strong enough - try removing your spigot addition and just be very careful to torque the wheels (with them off the ground for the first bit) a little at a time, picking an opposite bolt each time.

So 12 o'clock bolt. then the 5 o'clock, then 10, then 2 then 7 - it'll naturally pull the wheel central.

Rubbing noise might just be the screw in the arch liner, as you've increase the track width of the car.

I will do so tomorrow because today i don't have the time to go to the service and remove the spigot addition. Please, can you tell me exactly on this draq which is the screw in the arch liner?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fwheelassy2.jpg&hash=a44fda662487e1ee73e75d001fa1003de253858d)

Thank you again guys for your support
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 17, 2010, 10:04:19 am
its the plastic in side the wheel arch on the car nothing to do with the brakes
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 17, 2010, 10:15:12 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fphoto-11.jpg&hash=9a030967d3e00725662d805c561e2f09af899db0)


the bells that are on my car is the old bells ie first prototype ones the can take a spigot ring
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 17, 2010, 10:17:46 am
Oh i see, but if it was that, why there is no metal rubbing in the right side when i steer right?  :sad1:
As i see in the picture you have enough spigot clearance and you can sustain your wheel on it and then torque the bolts

I just thought to a solution: if it's possible for them to cut the so called built-in spacer on the disc bell so that it doesnt covers the spigot so much?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F15032010233.jpg&hash=db8407e189e3373fbb10ccc457a97d488bd567dd)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 17, 2010, 10:22:45 am
it would be better to have a mm taken off the bell to get the room u need
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 17, 2010, 10:30:21 am
i also think that it would be, i don't think the structure and rezistance of the bell would be affected. Until i receive further instructions from Sam i won't do anything all by myself.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 17, 2010, 10:48:39 am
Measure how much space you have between the back of the wheel and the caliper and you'll know how much you can skim off the front of the bell... you'll only need a little bit of spigot, just to keep the wheel central whilst mounting.

Don't take it off the side that bolts to the disc, do the wheel side.

There's plenty of metal there too remove and I'm 99% confident it won't affect the integrity. Wait for Sam to say for sure though.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 17, 2010, 11:22:08 am
What pads do you have in?
I had the DS3000s and had exactly the same problem with the juddering that your describing,
I ended up putting a leading edge onto the pads (like the top ones in this pic)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fthaidiep%2Fs2k_brakes%2FIMG_2847a.jpg&hash=4c61b81f481b0f9e1a72a1dfbd57e43b92e1c094)

Its a thing we do on the pads in the race car to give them more feel and a little less bite in the wet, Matt did mention that the grooves in the disks are at a very aggressive angle, since i have put the chamfer on, the brake wobble has completely gone!

If your running the DS3000 pads make sure you dont let them get glazed tho, they really need to be kept at a high temperature for them to work properly!

Dont let the wobble put you off though, there absolutely awesome brakes and the feel you get from them is mega! (for a survo'd system anyway)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 17, 2010, 11:52:39 am
What did you use to chamfer them, Luke? I've got some naughty pads that could do with the bite easing on them.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 17, 2010, 11:55:40 am
i am running with DS2500 pads and they look identical with the first pads from top in the picture. I have the same vertical cut through them. Also the DS3000 have the same vertical cutting on the middle. I won't let this problem put me down although the wobble is very hard and the more faster i go and brake at higs speeds the wobble is more powerfull and a dirturbing noise is produced from the brakes.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 17, 2010, 01:10:36 pm
the pads will have the cut through them yes, but i was talking more about the 45 degree slopes off the ends of the pad, (shown to the left and right of the pad in the pic)

Tony, i just used a bench grinder, you could use a sander or a hand file i guess (be preparred for lots of dust tho) :laugh:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 17, 2010, 01:53:54 pm
a friend gave me another idea: when you brake and the pads touches the disc, they could move it 1-2 mm and the disc moves the custom spigot extension and this transfers the vibrations to the wheel and to the whole car further. At high speeds a movement of only few mm is enough to produce big wobbles. Hope i explained good. Here is a simplification:

the path of the vibration:

pads-> disc movement -> spigot extension movement -> wheel wobble -> car vibration

i know this theory sounds stupid, but i'm trying to give myself an explanation
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 17, 2010, 04:44:35 pm
The brakes have been designed by Caparo to a very high standard, so I can assure you that there wouldn't be any movement in the pads, calipers or disks to make the wobble.

I have had phone calls from Caparo themselves and they have been very very helpful with trying to diagnose the problem that i had (which sounds exactly the same as what your having), and even offered to have a look at the brakes on the car if i couldn't sort it the way they had suggested!, but now i have put the chamfer onto the pads the wobble has completely gone!
I would really try doing this first, i would be very very surprised if your spigot extension has anything to do with it!
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 17, 2010, 04:49:59 pm
As jabba says above caparo know what they are doing as it is a it kit made for vwr. I was watching these brakes being thrashed around the track yesterday on about 3 cars and trust me after speaking to the drivers and getting brake temps from Mat after they had done 10+ laps on them i can assure u they are awesome  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on March 17, 2010, 06:19:01 pm
Teff,

If you only need the spigot to help mount a wheel on, then why not just get a wheel mounting tool like this

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awesome-gti.co.uk%2Fshopimages%2Fproducts%2Fnormal%2Fwheel_tools.jpg&hash=ff85e89fbd77e87c5f2bb0b94bc717c191bd948f)



Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on March 17, 2010, 07:50:39 pm
Teff,

If you only need the spigot to help mount a wheel on, then why not just get a wheel mounting tool like this

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awesome-gti.co.uk%2Fshopimages%2Fproducts%2Fnormal%2Fwheel_tools.jpg&hash=ff85e89fbd77e87c5f2bb0b94bc717c191bd948f)


....I've got one of those. Expensive but extremely helpful in reducing the risk of damaging the rim while taking on and off.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: G4V VW on March 17, 2010, 09:31:12 pm
Teff you definately need your wheel to sit on the spigot of your hub. The spigot centres the wheel to stop wheel wobble at speed. Wheel nuts are there mainly to hold the wheel on, it's the job of the spigot to Take most of the weight of the car and not the nuts. I have seen many cars with this fault with the wheels not sitting on the hub correctly Causing wobble.

This could also be causing your braking judder as the wheel is already wobbleing before and as you are braking.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 18, 2010, 12:50:38 am
.....
I would really try doing this first, i would be very very surprised if your spigot extension has anything to do with it!
How did you do the chamfer? There is a special tool? because tomorrow i'm going back to service to change my ignition coils and to have a look at the wheel to see where it's rubbing
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 18, 2010, 08:57:33 am
See if the workshop has one of these?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dorak.ca%2FGift_Reg%2FBenchGrinder.jpg&hash=a609fc2820efc3fa1347cc0aea4669329b8b4484)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 18, 2010, 10:19:48 am
there is a certain lenght and angle of the chamfer?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2Fchamfer.jpg&hash=c5523cb299326a8ad391b27ddb4237c6fe4013d0)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 18, 2010, 10:29:45 am
I wouldn't think it is a science - pretty much what you've got in your diagram looks ok to me.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 18, 2010, 12:31:21 pm
no set dimensions, Just so it takes the corner off really, you want to try and avoid going too far into the surface of the pad tho as the further you go in the less pad surface you will have in contact with the disk

What you have drawn looks about right tho
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 18, 2010, 06:08:37 pm
Guys i'm really really upset :sad1: I did the chamfer but the car continues to wobble. Now, it started to do a very pronounced squel when i drive normaly (when i don't brake). I don't know what to do. Tomorrow i will send an email to Sam and ask him if I can send the calipers, discs and pads back to England so that they can do some testing.
Something is wrong, something is not working properly.

Today i did a brake from 160km/h and i just felt like the whole brake is about the jump from the wheel.  :sad1:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F18032010250.jpg&hash=b1906b3f5353fbfbfbd1ea174b9451eeb09c8231)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F18032010249.jpg&hash=db76eb30e58ebe3ff4891ae972cebfab3b61143b)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F18032010248.jpg&hash=46aa301b897977ddb121bf9760a7409b85733f05)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 18, 2010, 06:12:54 pm
i am  :confused: myself now very strange
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 18, 2010, 06:18:38 pm
believe me MAT, if England would had been closer to Romania i would come to show that i'm not crazy. Something is wrong. Does any of you has a picture of the spigot with the disc brake mounted?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 18, 2010, 07:02:37 pm
I just received another email from Caparo in which they explained what they think  the problem is. They will send via Racingline the following: reshaped pads, spigot, and pad retainers.
I hope that this time works :pomppomp: :pomppomp:

As i understanded from the email the nuts on the modern cars are chamfered, and these act to align the wheel and keep it in position. So, tomorrow when i go to the workshop i will tell the guys there to  remove the custom spigot i made, unmount the whole brake kit and mount it again more carefully.
Hope everything will be safe when i mount the wheel only in the 5 bolts/nuts (don't know the correct term).  :driver:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 18, 2010, 07:36:14 pm
thats good news and take some pics of the parts when they come  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 18, 2010, 08:59:43 pm
i will do so MAT

After some mails with Sam, we've decided that even after the installing of the new parts the problem isn't fixed i will send them the brakes for some tests. All i hope is that we solve this before 28th of April (when i will leave to Nring)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on March 18, 2010, 10:05:53 pm

As i understanded from the email the nuts on the modern cars are chamfered, and these act to align the wheel and keep it in position.


....Do you mean the wheels bolts? They are not "chamfered"/cup-seated on all modern cars. Some alloy wheels need them (OZ for example) and others don't (oem VW Monza's for example).

You can see by looking at the wheel which bolt type is needed. I think VWR should have supplied you bolts and whoever fitted the wheels should have seen if they were the right type or not.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 18, 2010, 10:12:01 pm
I got a type of bolts from VWR and they are on the car. Tomorrow i shall test them to see if there is any improvment without the "spigot" extension i did
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 19, 2010, 09:28:58 am
Take a picture of the bolt VWR sent you TEFF, the bolts that came to me in the kit were for an aftermarket alloy wheel, Matt didn't ask if i had aftermarket wheels either so i presume thats what they alwase send out?
If so you could have the wrong bolts for your wheels (not trying to pick fault, but there must be a reason somewhere along the line for the wobble)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 19, 2010, 04:28:04 pm
Here are the bolts, and i measured my hub's length, it has 13 mm
I removed the spigot extension i made and took the car for a ride. The result is the same, it still wabbles a lot and very powerfull
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F19032010255.jpg&hash=dca695ac545c46dfff7c73d3ae22cc756fd6a88b)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F19032010254.jpg&hash=b13a1db89f873d70e3d4b7531cf84b52b9804cc7)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F19032010253.jpg&hash=171d473a86662315fbe13037ffe6a192afb547af)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on March 19, 2010, 04:36:00 pm
Do you have a dial test indicator (DTI)  may be worth measuring the run out on the disc, this will check the disc is sitting correctly, or if the disc is bent.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bernardembden.com%2Fxjs%2Fhub%2Fdialindi.JPG&hash=74eea01c53516a7a17b138af23c9a4b632300e39)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 19, 2010, 04:45:36 pm
Is that a cone/rounded seat on the bolt? Is that correct for your car - or are your original ones a taper?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 19, 2010, 05:03:21 pm
i didn't understanted very well the question (damn i skipped the English class)

all i can say there bolts came in the VWR package. the bolts and those rounded nuts
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on March 19, 2010, 05:54:57 pm
what do your original bolts look like? and can you get a pic of where the bolt seats in the wheel?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 19, 2010, 06:45:16 pm
i don't know how the original bolts are looking like. I gave them away to someone else. All i can say is that today i talked with Sam and they will change my brake kit with a new one :drinking:. I'm so happy. Hope this time works and i will have a chance to enjoy the brakes   :congrats:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 19, 2010, 07:27:59 pm
 :smiley: nice one its very strange  :confused: but i am sure vwr will sort it for u
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 19, 2010, 07:53:30 pm
i know, but at the end of the day everything is OK when it ends OK :pomppomp:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 19, 2010, 07:55:35 pm
i know, but at the end of the day everything is OK when it ends OK :pomppomp:

so true  :happy2: let us know how things go
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 19, 2010, 08:08:58 pm
Teff, speak to someone on here with a VRS and ask them what bolts it should have - assuming you have the standard wheels. That way you know you've covered every possibility.

See the lug bolts, conical and spherical - which one?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.performanceplustire.com%2Fgraphics%2Ftech.info.4.gif&hash=2b1f29a35fca7157fc1d636ab31806a6d2ee6d58)

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 19, 2010, 08:15:27 pm
Ok tony, tomorrow i will speak a friend of mine from here who has a Octavia vRS with standard wheels. Thanks for the picture. I have BBS CH wheels.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 19, 2010, 08:18:37 pm
BBS CH should be conical - if you were sent the spherical, that's what is causing your wobble. If the bolts are correct, then VWR have everything covered with the new brakes.

Good luck.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on March 19, 2010, 10:22:34 pm
i know, but at the end of the day everything is OK when it ends OK :pomppomp:

so true  :happy2: let us know how things go
i will do so MAT, thank you all guys for your help :congrats:

BBS CH should be conical - if you were sent the spherical, that's what is causing your wobble. If the bolts are correct, then VWR have everything covered with the new brakes.

Good luck.

But if the bolts weren't the right ones, shouldn't the wheel wobble under normal driving also? (in acceleration)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on March 19, 2010, 11:32:28 pm
When things go wrong, they do it in the most annoying way possible.

I'd at least see if you can borrow a set of correct bolts before you send them back to the UK and try them, just in case.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 16, 2010, 11:07:35 pm
This week i will receive the new brake kit from VWR, Hope this time works. I just talked with Sam today and he said to me what they-ve improved to the brakes.

• Pad retaining sleeves have been modified so that there is no chance of the pad “catching” on the sleeve and preventing it from returning to it's correct position, so stopping the pad touching the disc when the brakes are not being applied.
 
• Pads are DS2500 and have been champfered.
 
• The aluminium bells has been checked to ensure concentricity and falls well within tolerances allowed..
 
• The discs has been checked for; balance, flatness and runout. Again they fall well within tolerances.
 
• The Disc & Bell assembly have been checked for flatness and remain in balance. Again, they fall well within tolerances.
 

In this picture, i saw that there is a difference between the 4 bolts and the security-bolt. The security-bolt has that round part (i don't know the term) bigger than the other 4 bolts. Could this affect in some way the car?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2F19032010254.jpg&hash=b13a1db89f873d70e3d4b7531cf84b52b9804cc7)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on April 17, 2010, 04:03:05 am
Looks to me the 4 main bolts are tapered type and the security bolt is radius type?? You need to know which type of bolt seats perfectly in your wheels as it is them that determines which type of bolts u need to use!
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Poppa Dom on April 17, 2010, 10:47:10 am
Standard bolts are most definitely radius, it does sound as though your bolts are tuner bolts, which are conical with a 60 degree taper. You need to get a security bolt that has the same profile as the bolts that you are using. Take a look at the McGard m14*1.5 bolts, stock code 27181su  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 17, 2010, 11:19:10 pm
i don;t know what to say, i don't like to repeat myself, but if it the problem was because of the bolts wouldn't be normal that when i accelerate to feel the same vibration that i'm feeling when i'm braking? :sad1:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on April 17, 2010, 11:30:15 pm
wrong bolts for the wheels you have is just dangerous and yes u will feel vibrations accelerating and braking as the wheel is not mounted securely to the hub at all! 

you must check the bolt seat pattern for of your wheels, whatever they are, and use bolts that are suited to that. Take a wheel off and put the normal bolt and the security bolt thru the holes to see which one seats perfectly.

Then get a whole set of those type of bolts.

You can not mix and match the 2. Its one of the other.



Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 17, 2010, 11:34:50 pm
Thanks for the advice. In 2 days i will receive the new kit from VWR and then i will look more closely to this. Now i have BBS CH wheels and i understood that they have conical seat
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 26, 2010, 09:55:29 pm
Installed today the new kit, i did everything as they told me, torqued every bolt. Still has that wobble, but is not segnifiant as the first kit. Under harder acceleration at speeds beyond 120km/h the sterring vibrates.

I think i know what's the problem. I attached a picture of the bolts from BBS and the bolts that i received in the brake kit. You see the difference?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi818.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz106%2Fstefandragnea%2FIMG00027-20100426-2338.jpg&hash=8c0aef6ebe37b39b4ae20a97af02fc35cfb2c552)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Poppa Dom on April 26, 2010, 11:16:09 pm
Yes, you need to be running on the 60 degree bbs bolt not the radius bolt if running after market wheels.  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 26, 2010, 11:26:34 pm
I found out that H&R has 60 degree tapper bolts that are identical with the ones received from BBS, only that they have the lenght of the ones received from VWR. Tomorrow i will order them. Hope that this solves the problem :D
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 27, 2010, 09:23:19 pm
today i changed the bolts with ones that has conic seat and it still has the same wobble. I don't know why. On the rear i have R32 brake setup with Zimmermann discs (tomorrow i will change them with OEM ones, it might be that the ones from rear are not good). Is there a chance that the front brake kit with the big one from rear are too much for the brake fluid pump?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on April 27, 2010, 09:52:46 pm
u have pm Teff
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on April 27, 2010, 10:19:38 pm
i really hope you've not inadvertantly buggered up the bolt holes in the hub from fitting the kit first time round and driving at high speed with insecure wheels due to wrong bolts being used.

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on April 27, 2010, 10:27:00 pm
i think he might have but i would get all 4 wheels in the air and then spin the wheels to see if they wobble at all
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 28, 2010, 02:55:22 am
today i will try the brakes with another wheels, and see if there are any improvements.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on April 28, 2010, 08:08:54 am
Are there any markings on the top of the VWR longer wheel bolts? Pics?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jonnyc on April 28, 2010, 08:17:05 am
Sorry if I have missed this..

Why do you have to run different/longer bolts..?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on April 28, 2010, 08:51:23 am
I have asked him to put the car in the air and spin the wheels to see if they wobble and if he can get someone in the car to get the wheels up to speed to see if they wobble. He told me wheels are new too
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on April 28, 2010, 09:30:12 am
Sorry if I have missed this..

Why do you have to run different/longer bolts..?

Because the new discs bells have a built in spacer to allow them to fit with the OEM wheels like the Pescara.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 28, 2010, 02:47:11 pm
Today i went to another service and did the perfect bleed of the calipers. All the services didn't knew that you had to do the bleed on the both sides of the calipers. And that's the cause of the wobbling. Because the caliper wasn;t pushing with the same pressure on the both sides of the disc. I still feel a little vibration, but i will wait to see if it dissapears after some bedding.

The mechanic here told me that is possible that the discs were deformed because of the not-equal pressure pushed on the by the caliper. If this is true, i will buy another set of discs from VWR.

Another thing, about the pedal feel. After this perfect bleeding the pedal response is very prompt. I hit the steering wheel with my head after the braking :)) :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on April 28, 2010, 03:19:53 pm
 :jumpmove: nice one i did say to you have you bled them correctly  :signLOL:  :rolleye: oh well we got there in the end  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 28, 2010, 05:47:29 pm
 :jumpmove:finally, tonight i will go on the highway and do a proper bedding, with 8 stoppings from 60mph to 10mph, and after cooling i will do some power braking to see if the wobbling dissapears completely. I'm thinking that after the brakes are heating, the wobbles desapears.

tomorrow i will go and do the geometry to the car (i hope this is the correct term). I've also mounted on the rear Goodridge brake lines along with the R32 brake setup. The stopping power is incredible, i've done about 60 miles of bedding till now.  
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: xht20 on April 30, 2010, 11:54:32 am
after doing a proper bed in of the brakes, i'm speachless. The stopping power is incredible. I'm loving these brakes. The guys from VWR + Caparo are the best for the quality of the products, and the patience they had with me in solving my problems. Hats down in front of them  :congrats:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jabbalad on April 30, 2010, 12:07:08 pm
Glad your pleased with them and you finally found your problem, The quality of them is second to non, and after trying the earlier project MU setup i can say that VWR went the right way for sure.  :smiley:

These have so much more power and feel then the MUs  :laugh:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on April 30, 2010, 01:29:44 pm
100% agree with jabba they are awesome. It's nice to have a kit 100% made for our cars
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DanGB on May 04, 2010, 03:33:37 pm
Which pad fitment do they run?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on May 04, 2010, 03:56:18 pm
Which pad fitment do they run?

ds2500 or i think its the 3000 too for track abuse  :driver: i do know some of the race cars are running ds2500 on track too to see how they got on and after i had a good chat with one of the drivers he was very very happy with how the brakes are with them  in as he thought he had the race spec pads in  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DanGB on May 04, 2010, 04:05:52 pm
Have you got a price of the replacemnt pads for these? My AP 6 pot fitment pads are £260 for DS2500's
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on May 04, 2010, 04:11:18 pm
nope will find out when the time comes
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on September 01, 2010, 02:11:51 pm
Any further updates on these - pad & disc wear, replacement prices etc?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Msportman on October 28, 2010, 08:07:04 pm
Have you got a price of the replacemnt pads for these? My AP 6 pot fitment pads are £260 for DS2500's

How much!!

Just £55 for my 280mm MK2 16V....that's one of the main reasons I went back to a MK2...nice and light for track use.

Been there before with big brake set ups which are lovely until you do a few track days and have huge costs in replacing discs and pads.

I agonised over spending a further £6k on my Edition 30 to get it track ready. Even on stage 2 with Clubsports and track rubber (Dunlop DO1J's) it was still 2 secs a lap slower than my valver.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on October 28, 2010, 08:30:30 pm
Bloody hell, my Alcons ranged from £80 for EBC sh*t to £160 for Pagid RS29s when it came to pads. Seal kit was about £20, bolt/bobbin kit around £50, rotors £400+ the vodka... I never managed to wear a set of those out either.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 10:54:47 am
How long do a set of these aftermarket  2 piece rotors last?  I do about 8000 miles a year, and about <1500miles of which will be trackdays.

What's the going rate for replacements.  Had a look on VWRs website  but there are  no prices.  Also are vwr your only port of call for replacment rotors or are there other options onthe market
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 11:54:38 am
Done over 20k plus on mine still got loads of pad life and disc life
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 12:03:39 pm
While the brakes perform well in terms of stopping power and have good road manners there is a flaw in the way they eat pads.

Due to the bigger piston deploying first you get very uneven pad wear as I found when mine failed at spa.

On side of the pad was down to the metal and the other had serveral mm left. This was after 3k road miles and 4 track days.

NeilM's pads were the same, does the same on the race cars in VW Cup too.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 12:09:09 pm
 :surprised: :surprised:

That's a bit crap isn't it.  Do you know if that's being changed at all?

3k road miles and a few trackdays is not really alot of mileage.  So eating an entire pad is horrendous.  Which pads steve?

How come yours and neils have done that but Matts haven't?  Are they the same setup or do you just 'use' yours more than him
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 12:18:32 pm
Mines been road miles and lots of mountain road stuff  but I don't brake hard I like to just dab them and use the gearbox And I am only on ds2500 pads for the road
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 12:20:52 pm
I doubt mine would get the workout of steves or neilm's on the track but its still a worry.

Do theyhave padwear sensors
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 12:22:18 pm
Nope and they don't wear out like that on the road if you drive normal but if doing lots of track stuff just swap pads out for track pads job done
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 12:27:55 pm
These are mine after over 20k plus maybe near 30k
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fc774e38d.jpg&hash=dcf2774a1dab642bf153c7a0fe06dd58712daa7c)

And god do they stop you quick  :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 01:38:26 pm
:surprised: :surprised:

That's a bit crap isn't it.  Do you know if that's being changed at all?

3k road miles and a few trackdays is not really alot of mileage.  So eating an entire pad is horrendous.  Which pads steve?

How come yours and neils have done that but Matts haven't?  Are they the same setup or do you just 'use' yours more than him

To get me through the second day at Spa I had to swap over pads with NeilM, these are going to be coming off the car this week so will be sending these back to VWR as I think it's crap.

The race cars get around it by flipping the pads upside down at 50% life I have been told by KPM. They run the DS3000 and I am running the original DS2500 that are supplied with the kit so it's not down to the pad compound either.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 19, 2012, 01:56:14 pm
Isn't it the idea on multi piston caliper for the smaller piston to deploy first  (for low speed stopping) then the big piston for when ur stopping from High speed?

I'm sure that's what DaveB told me a while back when he explained the ins/outs of piston sizes and how they work etc

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 01:57:14 pm
Isn't it the idea on multi piston caliper for the smaller piston to deploy first then (for low speed stopping) then the big piston for when ur stopping from High speed?

I'm sure that's what DaveB told me a while back when he explained the ins/outs of piston sizes and how they work etc



Correct but when these caliper are run that way around I have been told they aren't as good  :confused: :confused:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 19, 2012, 01:59:30 pm
I looked at Steve's brakes at Spa, and it is not right, and IMHO dangerous, unless you are happy to check/change pads more than you change your undercrackers.

I don't honestly believe enough testing and development was carried out.  Porkers/Lambo's don't have this problem.  
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 19, 2012, 02:00:09 pm
Isn't it the idea on multi piston caliper for the smaller piston to deploy first then (for low speed stopping) then the big piston for when ur stopping from High speed?

I'm sure that's what DaveB told me a while back when he explained the ins/outs of piston sizes and how they work etc



Correct but when these caliper are run that way around I have been told they aren't as good  :confused: :confused:

They don't work as well when smaller piston deploy first??? WTF! Don't get that  :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 02:56:07 pm
The thread has inspired me to change the pads myself, so pics of what I mean will follow shortly  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 03:10:05 pm
Look forward to em Steve
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 03:24:29 pm
Ill send him an email I think.  I won't bother if this is the case.

I want my car as little maintenance as possible, so changing pads every 4k due to uneven wear isn't on mu todo list.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 03:40:49 pm
Is this something that is related to the 6 pot kits only or do the 4 pot kuts suffer as well
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 03:43:14 pm
Like I said it all depends how you drive the car to how quick the pads go down. How many miles has the apr car got on it with those brakes on? And that will be all road driving and it will be ragged everywhere so may give you some clue
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 19, 2012, 04:52:31 pm
Jesus, I used one and a half sets of pads for my Alcons in 2 years, and look at the miles/abuse they took!

Sounds to me like they don't back off enough or the piston sizing is on the piss. DS2500s are soft as butter mind when used hard, they'll just dissappear.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 04:59:30 pm
What seals have you guys got on the pistons as I know the ones on my calipers are off a race car ie the jetta that ronnie o Sullivan was driving and I remember Simon and matt both saying the the piston seals are not the same on the road versions but I could be talking crap  :smiley: it's just something that might be a reason so maybe the pistons don't go back quick enough on the track with other seals in  :confused: just an idea maybe
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 19, 2012, 05:19:53 pm
Is this something that is related to the 6 pot kits only or do the 4 pot kuts suffer as well

Have they released a 4 pot kit now?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 05:20:59 pm
Like I said it all depends how you drive the car to how quick the pads go down. How many miles has the apr car got on it with those brakes on? And that will be all road driving and it will be ragged everywhere so may give you some clue

I can't see how driving style will make any difference to the wear pattern, to me it would only affect the wear rate.

Here's the state of mine: -

Near Side Caliper

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-1312.jpg&hash=c6269adf257ccd4d50d7e3b9878844b8f8c6c098)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-1698.jpg&hash=cba7bfe4ae5591020c7e9631e7aa56bf2c849b1a)

Offside Caliper

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-2437.jpg&hash=a56f2b19c2c6c46dc9ee911ba1b58ee1daaea881)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-1917.jpg&hash=be9afa686b7c2b15ff66e8c62a2253f2b41bc114)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-807.jpg&hash=7684f667b882669e5e59be16fa04cd5887ebfde2)


Also worth noting these pads where flipped around about 700 miles ago to help balance out the wear but still there is a significant difference. Also the offside pads where crumbling too  :surprised: :surprised:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 19, 2012, 05:33:52 pm
I suppose if the car does way more track work vs normal road driving then I can see the big piston wearing out the pad faster than the side with the smaller piston.

But if the big piston is deployed first then IMO that's the problem really. Surely that means the braking isn't progressive at all?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 05:37:36 pm
Is this something that is related to the 6 pot kits only or do the 4 pot kuts suffer as well

Have they released a 4 pot kit now?

Getting a VWR 330mm 4 pot kit on mine pending details about this wear issue
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 05:40:18 pm
Like I said it all depends how you drive the car to how quick the pads go down. How many miles has the apr car got on it with those brakes on? And that will be all road driving and it will be ragged everywhere so may give you some clue
I can't see how driving style will make any difference to the wear pattern, to me it would only affect the wear rate.Also worth noting these pads where flipped around about 700 miles ago to help balance out the wear but still there is a significant difference. Also the offside pads where crumbling too  :surprised: :surprised:


Which pads steve.  Were they new, how many miles/tracksays etc

Have you raised this with vwr
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 05:43:47 pm
DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 19, 2012, 05:45:36 pm
Unless I have my physics totally to cock, and unless there is some artificial means of increasing surface area on the small piston, by clever machining.  Or a means of slowing large piston deployment by use of multiple seals, or a pressure reducer - then the large  Piston will always deploy first.  Pressure acting on a greater piston surface area.

I am sure Dave B will be along to comment.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 19, 2012, 05:48:32 pm
DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.

For the amount of miles, the pads were shocking.  Down to the metal on one end, with circa 3-5mm on the other.  NeilM's were the same, but the pads were slightly newer, but had signs that they were on the same wear regime.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 05:52:56 pm
Maybe are better compound pad for track abuse as it looks like the heat has just melted them and they have crumbled but it also looks like your pistons have not been deployed correctly or retracting correctly  :confused:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 19, 2012, 05:54:58 pm
Taken from the Wilwood site.

Caliper Selection and Mounting
Most Wilwood extreme performance calipers are one directional because of the differential piston bore design (one end of the caliper having larger pistons than the other); the caliper must be mounted in a specific position relative to the rotor rotation. All Wilwood Ordering Information calipers are marked with a rotor rotation arrow on them. The caliper should be mounted so that the smaller piston end is closest to the rotor entrance, and the larger piston end toward the rotor exit. The larger piston end provides slightly greater clamping force to compensate for pad taper that can occur under extended severe use applications. An improperly mounted caliper (reverse rotation) will cause increased pad taper and reduce overall braking efficiency.

Note that differential piston bore calipers cannot be used interchangeably from side to side - there is a left hand caliper and a right hand caliper. Also, calipers differ depending on whether the mounting is behind or in front of the spindle - this affects bleed screw position. Make sure to properly analyze these criteria when ordering and mounting or replacing Ordering Information calipers.


Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 19, 2012, 07:18:06 pm
Will you guys just put your pads out of their misery and reverse the calipers.....

[TEUTONIC_TAMER MODE/ON

This is total bunkum, small piston first ALWAYS. Despite the fan boys people need to listen to BASIC SOUND BRAKING PRINCIPLES

can-am, LMP, Formula1, Porsche road cars, Porsche GT Track Cars, Mercedes, Tarox, wildwood, AP Racing, Brembo, EVERYBODY puts the small piston first for that very reason.

PS I'll beat any price for rotors and pads for this kit, I don't need to charge much cos you'll be coming to me twice as often.

People that know, know this kit is a high margin replacement for the project Mu stuff which was hands down better quality than this stuff, all Project Mu stuff has double duty because it has to originate out of Japan and Australia.

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.

It's like disabling first gear setting off in second and complaining about clutch wear - ON PURPOSE

and can somebody please tell me the make of the rotor? I've been asking for ages ......nobody seems to want to tell me or admit its a no name rotor.

[TEUTONIC_TAMER MODE/OFF

To say these brakes are bad would be incorrect, value for money wise people can do much better
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 19, 2012, 07:20:52 pm
Will you guys just out your pads out of their misery and reverse the calipers.....

This is total bunkum, small piston first ALWAYS. Despite the fan boys people need to listen to BASIC SOUND BRAKING PRINCIPLES

can-am, LMP, Formula1, Porsche road cars, Porsche GT Track Cars, Mercedes, Tarox, wildwood, AP Racing, Brembo, EVERYBODY puts the small piston first for that very reason.

PS I'll beat any price for rotors and pads for this kit, I don't need to charge much cos you'll be coming to me twice as often.

People that know, know this kit is a high margin replacement for the project Mu stuff which was hands down better quality than this stuff, all Project Mu stuff has double duty because it has to originate out of Japan and Australia.

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.

It's like disabling first gear setting off in second and complaining about clutch wear - ON PURPOSE

and can somebody please tell me the make of the rotor? I've been asking for ages ......nobody seems to want to tell me or admit its a no name rotor.

To say these brakes are bad would be incorrect, value for money wise people can do much better

Small piston first as as the disc rotates?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: rich83 on February 19, 2012, 07:24:17 pm
Yes... thats why the NQSBBK needs the pipes rotating as the calipers originally are designed to fit to the back on the hub on the porker not the front as on the MK5.

Im sure Prof. Friction will correct me if i'm wrong.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 07:29:26 pm
 :surprised: :surprised:

I might have to put this one on hold for a minute then!!  Good to know about the option of cheaper consumables from you dave :happy2:

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.


Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power?  Surely outright stopping power would be similar to identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?

Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver.  Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?

DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.

Could using DS2500s not being making a small issue a much larger issue.  DS2500s are only a fast road/light track pad.  For what you and neilM ar suing them on caged very powerful trackcars running semi slick and even slick tyres etc.  You would be able to get you would be able to get your brakes running huge temperatures compared to what i could manage on my little Fabia.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 07:30:15 pm
I believe i may be responsible for opening this

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hopenothate.org.uk%2Fblog%2Fimages%2F684_467.jpg&hash=3c6deba45b2d9a3c41da5c11cf649f5e42ad4214)
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 07:30:22 pm
I think mine might be the other way around as Dave says mmmm will pop the pads out and have a look
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 07:31:07 pm
I think mine might be the other way around as Dave says mmmm will pop the pads out and have a look

I presume by looking at the orientation of the bleed nipples would be the easiest way of knowing?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 07:33:38 pm
DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.

Could using DS2500s not being making a small issue a much larger issue.  DS2500s are only a fast road/light track pad.  For what you and neilM ar suing them on caged very powerful trackcars running semi slick and even slick tyres etc.  You would be able to get you would be able to get your brakes running huge temperatures compared to what i could manage on my little Fabia.

DS2500's are what VWR recommend for all applications, they have told me a number of the race cars still run the 2500 rather than the 3000.

The new pads installed today are 3000's though  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 07:37:06 pm
Christ, i managed to get the DS2500s to fade with 312mm discs on my octavia when at Oschersleben Motorsport Arena.

That said, the discs are only small so wont dissipate the heat as well.  Guess the Octavia is a heavy beast as well
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 19, 2012, 07:43:53 pm
Christ, i managed to get the DS2500s to fade with 312mm discs on my octavia when at Oschersleben Motorsport Arena.

That said, the discs are only small so wont dissipate the heat as well.  Guess the Octavia is a heavy beast as well

As DaveB said earlier the DS2500 is a good Fast Road / light track use pad. I have them in my AP 4 pots. Done a few track days on them and theyve been fine but then again I know my own limits when out on track. The R is my road car at the end of the day.



Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 19, 2012, 08:00:17 pm
Non floating 2-piece discs are an odd choice, 2 metals expanding/contracting at different rates will only either stress the bolts or the weaker of the two materials. Mine used to grow by 7-8mm in diameter (tell tales on the bells).
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 19, 2012, 08:05:10 pm
Regarding floating or bolted, floating rotors are nice good to have invariably you'll always be bouncing off a temperature ceiling with bolted rotors. It needs to be explained that there is NO benefit in using these rotors if you want to have the benefit of expansion as heat increases, the rotor has NOWHERE to go. Using these rotors is a weight saving measure there is no other benefit if the disc is warped the disc can knock the pistons back into the caliper making the pedal seem unresponsive

For high end setups, track cars ( and I mean ALMS cars, Formula 1 cars upto about 5 years ago) you need axial and radial float! Radial is the expansion of the disc from say 360mm to say 365mm as it gets hot, axial float is the ability of the disc to acquire its own centre in the caliper, this needs to be controlled up to a max of about .7 of a mm ideally 0.2mm,

To mount the disc in a way that not only ALLOWS this float but also controls it is expensive but gives MASSIVE headroom and improves wear.

Whether you need bolted or floating is a function of corner entry speed and whether or not you want to put 5-6 laps back to back or 15-25 without worrying about brakes.

THe TTRS is a real disc eater especially in stage 2 guise we've had huge success on that car with these, they've done track days, rally's, shoot outs with Jonny C driving !

This is my TTRS replacement disc this is the hardware and bell design required for high end heat management, it's also OEM quiet and you can do 20 laps at Oulton drive home and then drive to work the following day without ever NOTICING your brakes. We designed and had manufactured the bobbin springs ourselves (Epic project, believe it or not Rochdale is the spring manufacturing centre of the cosmos....long story)

I've got this disc in Gallardo/ R8 front and rear/ C5 RS6, RS5, TTRS & Mk5 version with and without the built in spacer all fantastically technically successful.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2Ff42d2317.jpg&hash=6fe04f69f53dd1d42cbaa7f2eab8b8952253f8a3)

the only person using this arrangement on here is Geordie56 on his rocco, I was desperate for you to have a go in it Steve as I think you would be converted, and imvho it's the pinnacle non hyped setup for the Mk5 platform.

if he ever packs in blowing it up, I hope you'll get a go in it

So what's my point?

It's the same price as the VWR kit.......
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 08:37:59 pm
The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.


Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power?  Surely outright stopping power would be similar if not identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?

Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver.  Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?

Thoughts Dave?

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jimk04 on February 19, 2012, 08:44:17 pm
Surprised to see these pukka brake kits having such bad pad wear,..rate and uniformity. Tho if they aren't oriented correctly piston wise.....but how do vmr sanction a kit with the calipers seemingly the wrong way round?! :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 19, 2012, 09:10:05 pm
The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.


Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power?  Surely outright stopping power would be similar if not identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?

Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver.  Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?

Thoughts Dave?



It's horsesh*t, race drivers are on the brakes VERY hard for a very short space of time so they may want the big piston to do all the work in a massive hurry but all that demonstrates is a bad design the right way round..

There is a Move back to 4 pots now in GT2 circles who knows what VWR are doing supplying back to front kits..

Kev at KPM does know his stuff however (I'm sending my customers there) so there might be something to it, I would guess it may be something to do with the overall shortcomings of the design and people asking big questions of it

By rights it's not a technically advanced kit for pure track work, we've got unsupported support for it from people with vested interests but that's it, compared to say an AP competition kit which does work its half price. Don't think that everything that goes onto a prepared track car is the creme de la creme of kit because that's not the case.

Don't know about the bolted/floating race prep....race teams will generally use what they can getaway with, don't forget they can probably do away with inner arches and organise some proper ducting where a road car cant which would help...it's a budget approach to heat management, consider a fully floating setup with proper cooling....you'll run out of petrol before brakes .

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 19, 2012, 09:11:44 pm

the only person using this arrangement on here is Geordie56 on his rocco, I was desperate for you to have a go in it Steve as I think you would be converted, and imvho it's the pinnacle non hyped setup for the Mk5 platform.

if he ever packs in blowing it up, I hope you'll get a go in it

So what's my point?

It's the same price as the VWR kit.......

Interesting Dave, when Shaun has his car back up and running then I will certainly try to give them a go  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 19, 2012, 09:21:19 pm
Regal won the VW Cup in their MKV with exactly the same brakes I had on my car. I still maintain that you don't need anything bigger than 343/4pots on a Golf.

Jesus, I'm running 6pots /340s on 1500kgs+ of 135i and that stopped all day at Spa/Ring/Ring F1 track/Rockingham..... I've still got 10mm left on the RS29s too. :laugh:

Get the right kit for the job.  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 19, 2012, 09:32:01 pm
^^^^^

What he said, we actually brought the diameter down on the TTRS after doing the maths from 370mm to 362mm that was a big sell believe me....

That said its only a matter of weeks before we see stage 3 TTRS running 600BHP+, I'm happy with the maths on that application.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 19, 2012, 09:39:50 pm
Vanity sells. The amount of people saying "oh, I'd have them if they were red" when I sold up - clowns.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: geordie56 on February 19, 2012, 09:51:07 pm
Well I can definately vouch for the setup supplied by dave and they are a huge improvement on the r8 calipers I had on it which were in there own right very good sharp brakes. The wear on the r8 setup was even and very good and just seemed to last considering the stress they were under, they never come across any issues like the vwr ones. The 8 pots I have on now though are just immense, they are lighter than the 4 pots as dave can confirm and bigger surface area on the discs, being 362mm therefore better cooling aswell as being a fully floating design. I have had no issues what so ever with these and they get a very hard life and as of yet the pad wear is nice ad even aswell. P.s Steve once I'm sorted and we start getting on track days in the next couple of months you are welcome to see what they are like pal.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 10:03:40 pm
I'm depressed now :signLOL:

Dave have you seen their 4 pot kits, wandering if they have the same issues as the 6 pots? Can you switch from a fixed two piece disc to a floating setup using the same bell or us it new everything. 
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Top Cat on February 19, 2012, 10:08:58 pm
I'm depressed now :signLOL:

Dave have you seen their 4 pot kits, wandering if they have the same issues as the 6 pots? Can you switch from a fixed two piece disc to a floating setup using the same bell or us it new everything. 

Do we have to slap you with a wet fish before you get the message. Buy something  else that works correctly.  :happy2:                                                                   
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 10:14:28 pm
Think I might just stick with my previous plans  :sad1:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 10:19:02 pm
Maybe vwr should look into a floating disc setup then judging by the pad wear you guys are having on track
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 19, 2012, 10:51:06 pm
Already on it Matt, been asked half a dozen times.

The advantage of float in the bell is that you can use rotors deigned to be bolted such as the VWR ones

Plan is to ditch the VWR bell and replace it with my own design and mate it with the CP4015 bobbin kit

Won't be cheap but it will give some more headroom, problem is nobody will cough for the part number or make of the rotor, I suspect they would rather avoid that. Theres little point charging somebody £300-400 quid to convert it if the rotor is of dubious origin

Maybe vwr should look into a floating disc setup then judging by the pad wear you guys are having on track

Matt it's nothing to do with the rotor it's the caliper that is  on upside down........

I know the VWR logo on the bell is like a cuddle blanket to some. but it really does need to go for track work

@mikeRoberts

Where's that pic of you at Oulton with the red hot brakes, can you post it up to demonstrate floating vs bolted
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 10:57:59 pm
The vwr logo is a sticker  :signLOL: it was http://www.caparoapbraking.com/ who made the brakes and I thought made the discs
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 11:04:43 pm
Matt it's nothing to do with the rotor it's the caliper that is  on upside down........

From what I gather outright braking power isn't an issue but uneven padwear is because the smaller piston is located lower most on the caliper.

So does flipping the caliper solve it or is it crap full stop?  I can't see how flipping it would lose braking power and it should solve the uneven wesr rates, but then I dont know much about brake piston design lol
The vwr logo is a sticker  :signLOL: it was http://www.caparoapbraking.com/ who made the brakes and I thought made the discs

That is exactly what I was told on frida.  Id also remove the sticker.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 11:06:53 pm
It was all made in house dave they had my car for it ie I  dropped my with them and they used it to design the brakes around the Pesci wheels and the pro race that I had on the car
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 19, 2012, 11:26:32 pm
It was all made in house dave they had my car for it ie I  dropped my with them and they used it to design the brakes around the Pesci wheels and the pro race that I had on the car

Is yours the same kit as Steve's?  Only ask as maybe he has a race spec kit on there as it was the demo car
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 11:29:32 pm

Mine is the race kit as it was off a race car like I posted earlier today so the seals are changed on the race spec ones so I am told by Simon And matt and I think the ones on the vwr old car were the road spec ones but I am not sure only Steve will know this
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 19, 2012, 11:36:17 pm
I recall Matt very well.

Whilst not a bad kit, I've never been a fan of them testing it on their customers or the fact that you were buying the VwR logo for an additional £800.

Lets face it if Caparo were selling it branded by themselves they'd struggle to achieve much more than a grand for it in much the same way Forge struggled to sell there brakes for not much more than that

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 19, 2012, 11:47:33 pm
They have sold loads of these brakes both in the uk and world wide so I am sure with all the feedback from us lot on this site and others with the bakes it should help solve things.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 19, 2012, 11:50:06 pm

Mine is the race kit as it was off a race car like I posted earlier today so the seals are changed on the race spec ones so I am told by Simon And matt and I think the ones on the vwr old car were the road spec ones but I am not sure only Steve will know this


Matt

Very unlikely the seals are different for the "race" version probably Hype, there may be a version without dust seals, its braking 101 there's little point putting mega capable fluid seals on calipers with dust seals, they'll melt before you need the extra capacity of " race seals"

Besides you don't need them this side of carbon....and I don't mean ceramics

Theres been a lot if hype and "marketing" over this kit, it is what its. Next gen stoppers it ain't.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 20, 2012, 07:21:59 am
It was all made in house dave they had my car for it ie I  dropped my with them and they used it to design the brakes around the Pesci wheels and the pro race that I had on the car

Is yours the same kit as Steve's?  Only ask as maybe he has a race spec kit on there as it was the demo car

There is only one version and mine where not the original demo ones but brand new production versions fitted last May when I bought the car.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 20, 2012, 08:15:17 am
Yeah that's what I thought Steve and dust seals sounds like it Dave was not sure
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 20, 2012, 12:44:26 pm
interesting chat today from the horses mouth

Ds2500 pads woefully inadequate on track a certain number of cars had big problems at Snettertn and Donnington can't for the life of me think why people would even attempt to make that combination of fast road pad, upside down caliper and a tough track work.....

ive just had the discussion with people that know the racing, the teams, everybody practically is on a dedicated track pad F2.

restrictions regarding the use of DS2500 Might and it only is a MIGHT be down to the rotors not coping, that said and being fair Aaron's discs were a mess and juddering badly on the DS2500 but the Mintex  F2's cleaned them up nicely and drove very well.

Suspicions regarding the upside down caliper thing may be a rigidity issue..... sticking plastered by putting them on upside down

I also have AP rotors to replace the Caparo rotors ( common mod apparently), and 10 different compounds available on the shelf right now...from road going ds2500 to Project Mu for which I will not accept body parts as part payment

This info direct from the pit lane at last years Cup series......

In fact just had a a look at the timing results from Snetterton last year 18 out of 21 runners on Mintex F2

These are the facts, let's try to see through marketing hype and fan boys and apply some common sense and traditional accepted thinking
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 20, 2012, 07:06:45 pm
I will PM about some updates for mine Dave, as always thanks for your input on all things friction related  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 20, 2012, 08:20:32 pm
Dave

So if you use higher spec pads and floating rotors is that the bbk sorted.

Are all VW Cup cars running these setups?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 20, 2012, 08:21:52 pm
I will PM about some updates for mine Dave, as always thanks for your input on all things friction related  :happy2:

Steve is that an update by vwr to fix your bbk, or update to get rid
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 20, 2012, 08:23:03 pm
I will PM about some updates for mine Dave, as always thanks for your input on all things friction related  :happy2:

Steve is that an update by vwr to fix your bbk, or update to get rid

Going to explore the options, but I think in hindsight I wouldn't select them again.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 20, 2012, 08:32:50 pm
Have you spoken to matt about your concerns?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 20, 2012, 08:38:19 pm
Not yet, but I will report back when I do.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 20, 2012, 08:44:09 pm
 :drinking: great stuff
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 20, 2012, 08:47:13 pm
I've emailed matt but no response yet.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 20, 2012, 08:48:28 pm
Might have to call down myself too
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 20, 2012, 08:49:15 pm
I've emailed matt but no response yet.

That makes a change  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 20, 2012, 08:50:48 pm
I've emailed matt but no response yet.

That makes a change  :laugh: :laugh:

 :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 20, 2012, 09:29:54 pm
I've emailed matt but no response yet.

That makes a change  :laugh: :laugh:

 :signLOL:

Probably just smoothing the air bubbles out from some VWR caliper stickers......................
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 20, 2012, 10:06:58 pm
Dave

So if you use higher spec pads and floating rotors is that the bbk sorted.

Are all VW Cup cars running these setups?

that would take the kit to over £2.5K....that opens up a WHOLE lot of options, advanced brake kits at that sort of money deal with heat by design..... fully float in the bell systems with front face cooling for example

if you cut out the hype of which calipers people are running, in the pit lane it's simply down to what pads people run. The calipers at that level are simply there to hold the pads in the correct place nobody gives a rats arse what calipers you run, it's accepted they're up to the job and pads are what counts

I would suggest the racing line customer prepped cars run the kit as they have a vested interest in selling their own kit, in the main its AP racing and Alcon, the VWR kit uses an AP pad shape that's been around since the sixties . As I alluded to earlier all the cars are run on a budget so it doesn't need to be top notch stuff it just needs to last 20 laps they can worry about the next race between races.

There's a place for the VWR kit, my issue with it is Value for Money, I've not commented on my own personal viewpoint on the kit until now, take the badge of it and it's a £1200 inc vat kit which would be competing with Forge, K-Sport, XYZ, willwood., Hi-Spec. ..... 2 piece far east calipers can be had for £250 a pair landed in the UK duty paid....rotors £150, as I alluded to over on the NQSBBK thread caliper design is a frickin minefield and it's something Im on with, I won't do two piece and mono block billet calipers need 5 axis CNC...it's a 18 month project

Are we to romantically beleive some guy is hand finishing these calipers in Milton Keynes in the corner next to a load of race cars? What aspect of the kit makes it £800 more expensive?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: danishmkvgti on February 21, 2012, 05:17:03 am
So what you're saying Dave, is the Tarox 2 piece calipers is to be avoided?  :wink:

 :sad1:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 21, 2012, 08:22:31 am
That's unfair to say Jake, a lot of the most popular and successful calipers are two piece. If I was going to make my own I'd want to ensure they were of an advanced design reflecting the most modern design and manufacturing techniques.

Two piece calipers are a third of the cost to manufacture than monoblock unless you're making 10000 at a time

I'd also like to say I'm not for certain saying the VWR caliper Has rigidity issues, I just can't think of any other reason its reported that it works better upside down than the right way up, Caparo no doubt did the analysis.

Regarding rigidity some mono block calipers have a bolt through pad retaining pin to help, some two piece calipers such as the R8 rear (a caliper i really rate for a mk5) have a reinforcing bar across the front face as does the larger R8 front which is monoblock and has a re bar as well

We tested the xyz calipers on the bench with some pads and a hand levered master cylinder and the flex was very visible, we also then tested an AP Racing CP5020 on which the XYZ caliper was "based" which did also flex but nowhere as much, the castings will evolve over time with added mass and material. AP have had 40 years to get that casting correct.



Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: danishmkvgti on February 21, 2012, 08:48:24 am
That's unfair to say Jake, a lot of the most popular and successful calipers are two piece. If I was going to make my own I'd want to ensure they were of an advanced design reflecting the most modern design and manufacturing techniques.

Two piece calipers are a third of the cost to manufacture than monoblock unless you're making 10000 at a time

I'd also like to say I'm not for certain saying the VWR caliper Has rigidity issues, I just can't think of any other reason its reported that it works better upside down than the right way up, Caparo no doubt did the analysis.

Regarding rigidity some mono block calipers have a bolt through pad retaining pin to help, some two piece calipers such as the R8 rear (a caliper i really rate for a mk5) have a reinforcing bar across the front face as does the larger R8 front which is monoblock and has a re bar as well

We tested the xyz calipers on the bench with some pads and a hand levered master cylinder and the flex was very visible, we also then tested an AP Racing CP5020 on which the XYZ caliper was "based" which did also flex but nowhere as much, the castings will evolve over time with added mass and material. AP have had 40 years to get that casting correct.





Thx Dave, so calipers stay, but will catch you regarding your floating discs  :drinking:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 21, 2012, 08:32:14 pm
that would take the kit to over £2.5K....that opens up a WHOLE lot of options, advanced brake kits at that sort of money deal with heat by design..... fully float in the bell systems with front face cooling for example
if you cut out the hype of which calipers people are running, in the pit lane it's simply down to what pads people run. The calipers at that level are simply there to hold the pads in the correct place nobody gives a rats arse what calipers you run, it's accepted they're up to the job and pads are what count.  There's a place for the VWR kit, my issue with it is Value for Money, I've not commented on my own personal viewpoint on the kit until now, take the badge of it and it's a £1200 inc vat kit which would be competing with Forge, K-Sport, XYZ, willwood., Hi-Spec. .....  What aspect of the kit makes it £800 more expensive?

I'm getting value for money with my kit as I'm the development car for my particular kit which is a 4 pot setup instead of the current 6 poT option.  Id understand if I was paying alcon money, so imnot losing out as much as others
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 08:39:59 pm
It strange as my brakes are strong the amount of times I have lit the emergency lights up just by giving them a good jab  :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 21, 2012, 08:48:34 pm
The important thing here is to seperate objective and subjective opinions.

The pad wear is an issue but is it something directly related to soft pads on track cars with heavybraking thus easily solved?  Maybe rotating the calipers will solve it, idont kniw.  I've asked a few times on here
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 08:58:41 pm
Thats what I am thinking too ds2500 on a track with slicks or even track rubber will get get chewed up badly I would think hence why they look so bad,so maybe some better pads in and then see what happens but I don't know much about brakes and dave does so I can only say what mine have been like over 20k plus of driving on the roads and I still have loads of pad life left and even brake wear so I can only go by that  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 21, 2012, 09:06:38 pm
Matt's kit clearly works, the VWCup runners kits clearly work. Maybe it's slightly different and they changed the road version, I don't know? And DS2500s are fine until you overheat them, then they melt like butter and you'll have no pads. Simples. They're not really a track pad, they certainly are not a race pad.

It isn't fundamentally a bad road kit, the big pot leading is wrong and a bolted disc isn't ideal, but for 90% of people (pending the pot issues) it'll be perfect.

For the other 10%, you wanna play racecars, you've gotta pay racecar money. Just buy the best... look at any decent race/rally series, they're not running "pretenders", brakes win or lose races. AP, Alcon or Brembo at a push, as their consumables are vulgarly priced.

The thing is, most people can't justify AP/Alcon/Brembo money - which is where a good VWR kit will come in. I hope they get the issues sorted and the 4-pot is a good 'un.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 09:12:03 pm
If they did not work they would not be on the race cars and the drivers would say get them off the cars they don't work surely  :confused: or don't the guys paying for the cars get a say in anything on the cars?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 21, 2012, 09:16:52 pm
I'm just talking about the road kit, Matt - surely there's something odd about it?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 09:22:39 pm
I'm just talking about the road kit, Matt - surely there's something odd about it?

I don't know Mike it's something that vwr need to look at then  :confused: might have to call into see em and ask the ???
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jhtrophy on February 21, 2012, 09:29:15 pm
I don't get why they would be two kits, as matts race set obviously work on the road, I'm sure after 20k you would see the uneven pad wear even with road use, them pics are nuts and clearly points to an issue with that setup.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 09:31:00 pm
And you know the car stops you have been in it and driven it I think
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jhtrophy on February 21, 2012, 09:32:17 pm
Yeah, but I think you have the race car setup Dude
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 09:33:31 pm
Yeah I do so I don't know what they have changed then  :confused:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 21, 2012, 09:37:38 pm
I know it has been said that the caliper does not work very well in correct orientation (small pot lead).  Has anyone tested this? (apart from VWR)  Any test results/evidence?

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 09:40:04 pm
Will pop the wheel off tomorrow and see what way my pots are on the car
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 21, 2012, 09:42:27 pm
The important thing here is to seperate objective and subjective opinions.

The pad wear is an issue but is it something directly related to soft pads on track cars with heavybraking thus easily solved?  Maybe rotating the calipers will solve it, idont kniw.  I've asked a few times on here

it should never have been reversed in the first place imvho, your four pot kit will be fine fast road, you need to make sure you're either getting it for free or extremely discounted

don't worry the VWR logos you can get in the UK

http://www.alibaba.com/products/Racing_caliper/--100006239.html (http://www.alibaba.com/products/Racing_caliper/--100006239.html)

If they did not work they would not be on the race cars and the drivers would say get them off the cars they don't work surely  :confused: or don't the guys paying for the cars get a say in anything on the cars?

Matt, are you asking us or telling us..I thought you knew?

A full blown AP or Alcon kit is £1950-£2200, the drivers probably believed the hype, custom designed piston sizes etc  :sick:

They probably thought it'd be nice having kit 100% designed for our cars too and at a cheaper price....

I know exactly who was running what at what races, who had problems, who wouldn't stop and which drivers were positively reccomending DS2500 to other lets say more gullible drivers after having major problems with them typical pitlane shenanigans ...Not just VWR Matt but all the runners

The VWR DS2500 choice was farcical and an unmitigated disaster despite advice yet still they try to sell Steve P and Neil DS2500 to put into their track slags

The VWR Cup is NOT Le Man it's a Privateer Clubman outing don't expect it to be the cutting edge of Motorsport, that's not to take anything away from the combatants, but if I'm sat here a commercial pilot with a mondeo diesel outside thinking WHY did those cars try to get away with DS2500 around Snetterton, why didn't the drivers? Especially after the fourth set?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 21, 2012, 09:45:49 pm
Mr B, did you get the PM's?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 09:53:34 pm
Dave I don't know all I know is what I was told about the kit when it was being made from people like matt and caparo who must know brakes I would think as they do make em  :confused: if they are sh1t then I think you need to get hold of caparo and see what the crack is as you know more about brakes than anyone
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 21, 2012, 10:29:22 pm
Just typed a long reply but my IPad just sh@t a hedgehog and lost it.

In summary Matt, we've met you're a nice chap and you helped me out but to throw your hands in the air and say "I don't know - ask Caparo" as soon as they start having problems just isn't good enough IMHO you've been banging the drum since day one and probably countless people have put £2k of their hard earned into these brakes on the back of this review.

We all need to be careful about product reviews, and what we endorse especially when stuffs given away.

These brakes were the best brakes ever on the way home from Milton Keynes, Caparo have no racing pedigree so it would be wrong to assume that these brakes would work well on track yet still they got a 100% review - care to explain?

I just want to bow out of this now and reiterate that these are NOT bad brakes, this is what you should expect performance wise from a £1100 brake kit, the fact that it's more than that to purchase means nothing.

As mike said if you want to play you need to pay, track brakes do not need to be as sophisticated as track brakes you need to drive to work on the following day.

There's a forum point of order here and a lesson to be learnt for everybody with cash in the pocket who reads reviews assuming they're truly independent
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 21, 2012, 10:46:00 pm
.
AP no longer supply DS2500's with their kits but supply their own, as I expect many folks here already know.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: vRSAlex on February 21, 2012, 10:50:54 pm
.
AP no longer supply DS2500's with their kits but supply their own, as I expect many folks here already know.

Which is the same as the DS2500 compound IIRC?  They just come in an AP box with an AP logo on the back of the pads.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 21, 2012, 10:55:09 pm
.
AP no longer supply DS2500's with their kits but supply their own, as I expect many folks here already know.


Which is the same as the DS2500 compound IIRC?  They just come in an AP box with an AP logo on the back of the pads.


....I don't think so. What evidence do have of that?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 11:22:34 pm
Ok the  thing is Dave I still am happy with the kit on my car and have been for many many miles and I can only go off the brakes on my car and if people are having problems then it's up to the person to contact the company and discuss the problems and see what's going on and then once sorted let us all know what's happening.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 21, 2012, 11:28:23 pm
Oh and I never knew the price of the brakes when they were being made as I don't work for Vwr   :booty: oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 21, 2012, 11:31:21 pm

oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves


....Exactly! All we can ever do when writing a review is share our individual opinions and experiences and it's always up to the reader to make their own decisions.  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 22, 2012, 06:57:11 am

oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves


....Exactly! All we can ever do when writing a review is share our individual opinions and experiences and it's always up to the reader to make their own decisions.  :happy2:

Hence the welcome lack of sponsorship.  However RR - IMHO Sometimes your allegiance to VWR/Racing Line/Forge/AP/etc can seem overly vociferous.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jhtrophy on February 22, 2012, 07:19:44 am
Just typed a long reply but my IPad just sh@t a hedgehog and lost it.

In summary Matt, we've met you're a nice chap and you helped me out but to throw your hands in the air and say "I don't know - ask Caparo" as soon as they start having problems just isn't good enough IMHO you've been banging the drum since day one and probably countless people have put £2k of their hard earned into these brakes on the back of this review.

We all need to be careful about product reviews, and what we endorse especially when stuffs given away.

These brakes were the best brakes ever on the way home from Milton Keynes, Caparo have no racing pedigree so it would be wrong to assume that these brakes would work well on track yet still they got a 100% review - care to explain?

I just want to bow out of this now and reiterate that these are NOT bad brakes, this is what you should expect performance wise from a £1100 brake kit, the fact that it's more than that to purchase means nothing.

As mike said if you want to play you need to pay, track brakes do not need to be as sophisticated as track brakes you need to drive to work on the following day.

There's a forum point of order here and a lesson to be learnt for everybody with cash in the pocket who reads reviews assuming they're truly independent
Countless people have bought the brakes you say and how many have had issues? As Matt has said his review is of his brakes! I think your out of order trying to blame a forum member for other peoples choice of brakes! I don't know who you are but seem to sell superior brakes and are jumping on this thread for what? Your own gain?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 22, 2012, 07:53:35 am

oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves


....Exactly! All we can ever do when writing a review is share our individual opinions and experiences and it's always up to the reader to make their own decisions.  :happy2:


Hence the welcome lack of sponsorship.  However RR - IMHO Sometimes your allegiance to VWR/Racing Line/Forge/AP/etc can seem overly vociferous.


....You missed out a few on the list, Dave  :grin: - Milltek immediately comes to mind. Then there's JKM, the Mk5 GTI, a loooong list.

Not allegance but enthusiasm. Enthusiasm for some of their products based purely on my own personal experiences. You'll notice that I have no significant experience of VWR's Big Brake kit and so I have not posted anything about that product in this thread. Also, all we can ever do is present and share information which is to the best of our knowledge at the time.

I think you probably know me well enough personally by now to realise that I am by nature enthusiastic about things or people that I like. I'm also an optimist by nature. But it's not as if I am never critical of products or services. Anyway, as Mat says, folks can make up their own minds and it's not a problem if some of us don't always agree about various products and services.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: chungster on February 22, 2012, 07:58:23 am
Errrr if you read most of the other brake related threads on here you'd see that people value DaveB's advice on all things Brakes related. He doesn't have to do it as I'm sure he'd rather spend time with his family and fly planes!

Think this is the first time he's aired his views on the VWR package in a detailed way. Is he not allowed his opinion on an open forum just like everyone else ??

I know of one other owner who had a fresh set of VWR 6 pots fitted to his Roc R, took it to Bedford Autodrome and the discs cracked into 2 bits! He wasn't impressed by that at all considering he shelled out £2k for them and could have had a rather large accident as well!



Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 22, 2012, 08:12:10 am

oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves


....Exactly! All we can ever do when writing a review is share our individual opinions and experiences and it's always up to the reader to make their own decisions.  :happy2:


Hence the welcome lack of sponsorship.  However RR - IMHO Sometimes your allegiance to VWR/Racing Line/Forge/AP/etc can seem overly vociferous.


....You missed out a few on the list, Dave  :grin: - Milltek immediately comes to mind. Then there's JKM, the Mk5 GTI, a loooong list.

Not allegance but enthusiasm. Enthusiasm for some of their products based purely on my own personal experiences. You'll notice that I have no significant experience of VWR's Big Brake kit and so I have not posted anything about that product in this thread. Also, all we can ever do is present and share information which is to the best of our knowledge at the time.

I think you probably know me well enough personally by now to realise that I am by nature enthusiastic about things or people that I like. I'm also an optimist by nature. But it's not as if I am never critical of products or services. Anyway, as Mat says, folks can make up their own minds and it's not a problem if some of us don't always agree about various products and services.

Granted, however most people don't know you, and your enthuiastic allegiance etc...................   :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 22, 2012, 08:26:16 am

Errrr if you read most of the other brake related threads on here you'd see that people value DaveB's advice on all things Brakes related. He doesn't have to do it as I'm sure he'd rather spend time with his family and fly planes!

Think this is the first time he's aired his views on the VWR package in a detailed way. Is he not allowed his opinion on an open forum just like everyone else ??


....Very much agreed about DaveB's contributions to this forum.

However, he doesn't have to be so critical of Mat personally (as I quote below) does he. Mat hasn't been "banging the drum" at all - He's been very calm and merely shared his enthusiasm at appropriate times. [The word "enthusiasm" has a different meaning than "allegiance", QDave]


In summary Matt, we've met you're a nice chap and you helped me out but to throw your hands in the air and say "I don't know - ask Caparo" as soon as they start having problems just isn't good enough IMHO you've been banging the drum since day one and probably countless people have put £2k of their hard earned into these brakes on the back of this review.


It seems that if a posted review is negatively critical it's better received than if it's enthusiastically positive even if it contains critical elements. John_O's original template for forum reviews where he included both Plus Points and Minus Points is the way to go.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 22, 2012, 08:40:36 am
 :indifferent:  to be honest I don't care what Dave thinks about the brakes we all know he is some kind of brake god and he knows best and that's fine by me but I Only started the review as it was a new product on the market that lots of people wanted to see and so I posted how I was getting on with them. Then it's upto people who by the brakes to post any problems they are having on this thread and then seeing how the problems are dealt with with all the pro and cons of the product. SO let's see how things are dealt with
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 22, 2012, 08:44:38 am
I've nothing else to add to this thread about VWR brakes.

I would also add weight to the fact that the product review threads need an overhaul to a fixed format, that format should also include a £RRP and perhaps more importantly HOW MUCH THE REVIEWER ACTUALLY PARTED WITH to get the products onto the car.

This would help anybody reading the review assess the reviewers objectivity. I think it would be fair to say anybody objecting to this open disclosure might well have an agenda.

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 22, 2012, 08:47:21 am
^^^^ I agree about updating the review to follow the site standards  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 22, 2012, 09:13:13 am

Errrr if you read most of the other brake related threads on here you'd see that people value DaveB's advice on all things Brakes related. He doesn't have to do it as I'm sure he'd rather spend time with his family and fly planes!

Think this is the first time he's aired his views on the VWR package in a detailed way. Is he not allowed his opinion on an open forum just like everyone else ??


....Very much agreed about DaveB's contributions to this forum.

However, he doesn't have to be so critical of Mat personally (as I quote below) does he. Mat hasn't been "banging the drum" at all - He's been very calm and merely shared his enthusiasm at appropriate times. [The word "enthusiasm" has a different meaning than "allegiance", QDave]

It seems that if a posted review is negatively critical it's better received than if it's enthusiastically positive even if it contains critical elements. John_O's original template for forum reviews where he included both Plus Points and Minus Points is the way to go.

Enthusiastically Agreed with no allegiance.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 22, 2012, 09:28:47 am
Agenda I don't have one and never have. It will be the last time I put anything about a product on this site as it sounds like if a product someone has on a car and is happy with and then someone else has a problem with the product then it's the person who started the threads problem for saying how good the product was in the first place. It's ok we all know you make better brake kits than anyone else on the planet and that's it and everyone values what you say as I do but you can't blame me for a product that I never made or had any input on the design of this down to the maker of the product to sort out. Like I said if I am having a problem with kit I would have posted and spoken to Vwr about my problems but at this moment in time I am happy with them and if you don't like that then that's ok.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 22, 2012, 09:32:46 am
.
Rather than continue this subject in this review thread, I have started a new thread:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43075.new.html#new < Deleted since writing this post.

Time for me to get offline and have some breakfast!
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: RedRobin on February 22, 2012, 09:34:27 am

Enthusiastically Agreed with no allegiance.


 :signLOL:   :drinking:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 22, 2012, 04:04:37 pm
Whoah.

I do NOT like where this thread has gone.

Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up. I do not think it is fair to kick his arse for his opinion of his brakes. It's like complaining my apple isn't as crunchy as his, it may have come from the same orchard, but it ain't the same apple.

Matt knows VWR, so what? I couldn't give a rat's ass if he was given a hundred pounds to put those brakes on his car, because I know for a fact he isn't disingenuous.

There's a lot of people taking kick-backs and cheap/free stuff to be test mules or for their gear to be seen on 'halo' cars, it's gone on since the dawn of time. I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Speak now, or forever hold your hypocrisy.

Shame on some of you. If you've got a problem, see VWR/Caparo - don't moan at Matt.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 22, 2012, 04:08:56 pm
^^^^  :star: Thanks mate  :grouphug: 
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: danishmkvgti on February 22, 2012, 04:17:45 pm
Whoah.

I do NOT like where this thread has gone.

Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up. I do not think it is fair to kick his arse for his opinion of his brakes. It's like complaining my apple isn't as crunchy as his, it may have come from the same orchard, but it ain't the same apple.

Matt knows VWR, so what? I couldn't give a rat's ass if he was given a hundred pounds to put those brakes on his car, because I know for a fact he isn't disingenuous.

There's a lot of people taking kick-backs and cheap/free stuff to be test mules or for their gear to be seen on 'halo' cars, it's gone on since the dawn of time. I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Speak now, of forever hold your hypocrisy.

Shame on some of you. If you've got a problem, see VWR/Caparo - don't moan at Matt.

X2

Matt has given his opinion, and we all have the right to make our own minds. I have followed this tread from the first post, and even though he has praised these brakes, my opinion has been from the start that these wasn't what i was looking for. But it doesn't stop me from reading about his experiences.

Thx for the info on these Matt  :drinking:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: QD MBE on February 22, 2012, 04:19:16 pm
I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Shame on some of you.

Danza given a bung!   :ashamed: :ashamed: How can you sleep at night!

I was given a BSH mounts kit at a reduced price.  Fitted them, hated them, sold them on for just less than I paid.  Job done - all Win Win got that bug out of my system! :drinking:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 22, 2012, 04:34:08 pm
Like a baby... :happy2:

I think I was the 2nd person in the UK to fit them, and the trader knew full well I was tracking the car and would give my honest opinion. He was warned I'd say if they were sh*te though!!
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 22, 2012, 04:40:33 pm
Whoah.

I do NOT like where this thread has gone.

Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up. I do not think it is fair to kick his arse for his opinion of his brakes. It's like complaining my apple isn't as crunchy as his, it may have come from the same orchard, but it ain't the same apple.

Matt knows VWR, so what? I couldn't give a rat's ass if he was given a hundred pounds to put those brakes on his car, because I know for a fact he isn't disingenuous.

There's a lot of people taking kick-backs and cheap/free stuff to be test mules or for their gear to be seen on 'halo' cars, it's gone on since the dawn of time. I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Speak now, of forever hold your hypocrisy.

Shame on some of you. If you've got a problem, see VWR/Caparo - don't moan at Matt.

Mike

If you in your review you stated that your walk kit would enable you to hover 6 Inches of the ground and self park into a gap two thirds the length of your car, I would take you to task about it too not for my sake but for the other people who actually need the kit to do what is being said it will achieve.

lots said, lots of comments made about how good they are on track to promote sales, comments now found false, apologies made on the other thread,rudeness received, don't care, as you say it happens move on.

I've said it before they're not bad brakes, if Matt likes them good for Matt

Can't see how wanting a more open candid declaration is hypocritical, and I've no problem at all thanks very much unlike some people who have bought these brakes at an inflated price expecting them to work well on track
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 22, 2012, 05:15:09 pm
I've just read all of this again, I'm not going to start looking around for other threads, so excuse me if I miss something.

As far as I read it in summary:

Matt likes his brakes as does Jabbalad (who races for a living) and the latter having used his car on many track days and Ring trips without issue.
TEFF who had some problems with V2 of the kit, VWR fixed it.
SteveP and a few others have had issues with V2 of the kit. That is pending.
Matt said "mine aren't like that, acknowledged that there is a problem and advised them go to VWR and get it sorted"

As far as I'm concerned, Matt's and Jabbalad's opinions and review are valid. They are not however a review of V2 of the kit and whilst I believe this is clear reading the thread, prehaps a header on the first post is needed because of my suggestion thus.

This thread needs to be suspended, VWR given chance to address the problems with V2 and then owners of V2 should then contribute an amendment to be added to the first page. If it is such that these customers are not happy after attempts have been made to re-engineer the kit, then the review will reflect that.

VWR has to be given a chance to sort this, mistakes are made and you should judge people on how they deal with it. You've made them too I guess? It's only fair. Until then, let's just wait and see.  :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 22, 2012, 05:30:24 pm
Mike

We've sort of drifted away from the point, I personally don't care, my main issue is the continued endorsement of a product that in my own personal opinion has issues over a period of time and is over priced, that's MY take on reading the thread.

Last time I looked I can say what the hell I like as can Matt

As I said perhaps previously on this thread I played the man not the ball and I apologised for it.

That said theres the other issue of pseudo sponsored endorsement and it's worthy of discussion IMHO even if nothing changes we've all had the chat

Your summary seems good apart from the fact that VWR are aware of the problem and advocated turning the caliper upside down already. If that's the fix you're referring to then we all know where we are.

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 22, 2012, 05:37:05 pm
Fair enough chap, I wasn't actually making reference to you in any of my points BTW - so don't think I'm having a pop.

Forums, their member's cars and the tuning scene is all to some degree bent. You just have to know who can be relied upon to still give an honest opinion from those with a hand up their arse who can't. I don't believe Matt is the latter, it just seems he's somehow got the kit everyone else should have.

Pricing, well that's their call. I think it's too steep for the sum of its parts and pedigree, especially as I paid £1700 for my Alcon kit back then.

Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 22, 2012, 06:52:01 pm
And just to come back to you after your 5.37 edit Mike, yes mistakes are made by everybody it's what you do when things don't go to plan that's a measure of an organisation and an individual.

I'm struggling to think of a time when things didn't go to plan and I didn't stick with things until they were resolved or the money arrived back in the buyers account.

I've also done/supplied a lot of stuff for free Mike and if people have been daft enough to listen to my free advice then more fool them.

Also it's fair to say my rates/kits are far from priced commercially, if you charge top dollar then the stuff better deliver, out of the box, first time every time
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: tony_danza on February 22, 2012, 08:01:38 pm
Sorry, yeah it was a question rather than a statement - we all make them, we fix them and learn from them.

I do agree VWR shouldn't be fixing and learning on customer's cars, that's crap form.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: stealthwolf on February 22, 2012, 09:35:24 pm
Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up.
If Matt has a different version of the kit, then surely his review is valid for only his type of kit? I'd have thought it could generally been applicable to other versions but would be invalid.

As far as I'm concerned, Matt's and Jabbalad's opinions and review are valid. They are not however a review of V2 of the kit and whilst I believe this is clear reading the thread, prehaps a header on the first post is needed because of my suggestion thus.
+1 agree with this point. The review needs to reflect the version of the kit so others are aware.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 23, 2012, 12:56:13 am
I don't believe there are differences in the callers, the difference is in the disc bell, I.e. standard or wide, the wide version being the one to support oem wheels as it has the 10mm spacer built in.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: the bruce on February 23, 2012, 12:52:46 pm
Whoah.

I do NOT like where this thread has gone.

Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up. I do not think it is fair to kick his arse for his opinion of his brakes. It's like complaining my apple isn't as crunchy as his, it may have come from the same orchard, but it ain't the same apple.

Matt knows VWR, so what? I couldn't give a rat's ass if he was given a hundred pounds to put those brakes on his car, because I know for a fact he isn't disingenuous.

There's a lot of people taking kick-backs and cheap/free stuff to be test mules or for their gear to be seen on 'halo' cars, it's gone on since the dawn of time. I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Speak now, or forever hold your hypocrisy.

Shame on some of you. If you've got a problem, see VWR/Caparo - don't moan at Matt.


 :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 25, 2012, 08:44:13 am
I don't believe there are differences in the callers, the difference is in the disc bell, I.e. standard or wide, the wide version being the one to support oem wheels as it has the 10mm spacer built in.

Are we any further with your brake solution steve?
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 25, 2012, 08:48:19 am
Mats in the USA at the mo not back until end of next week I think
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: SteveP on February 25, 2012, 09:21:17 am
I don't believe there are differences in the callers, the difference is in the disc bell, I.e. standard or wide, the wide version being the one to support oem wheels as it has the 10mm spacer built in.

Are we any further with your brake solution steve?

While my car was at KPM this week for some other work they were requested to reverse the calipers around by Matt @ VW Racing as I understand he is aware of this thread.

As our resident VWR PR man says  :wink: Matt is in the states at the APR dealer conference so I am waiting until he returns to pick this up with him.

Having not driven the car yet I can't say anymore at this stage but Kev and Pies at KPM tell me there is no noticeable difference to the pedal feel or stopping power.
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: Janner_Sy on February 25, 2012, 09:39:03 am

Having not driven the car yet I can't say anymore at this stage but Kev and Pies at KPM tell me there is no noticeable difference to the pedal feel or stopping power.

That seems good news then :happy2:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 25, 2012, 09:47:06 am
I only know he is in the states as I tried to get hold of him as I am concerned nothing more nothing less and I am not a pr man at all for Vwr you go to them more than I do I was trying to get hold of mat to see if he had heard of the problems  :smiley:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 25, 2012, 01:37:57 pm
Without going over it all again there'll also be track day upgrade kit being manufactured for this kit, comprising a fully floating bell with built in front face cooling, bobbin kits complete with bobbin springs so theyll be quiet on the road and if I supply rotors they'll get temp paint

Designs done, I'm guessing the original VWR rotors were a copy of a common AP design with a 8.5" mounting PCD, just need to confirm final measurements which if Caparo have the same design safety minima as me will see 3-5mm on the rear of the rotor face / bottom ball joint.

There will be one version without spacer, hopefully the bell will go straight onto the VWR rotor otherwise the kit will require the purchase of some AP rotors, I very much suspect the VWR rotor will match the AP design.

Purely stating facts here, the cost of the VWR kit plus upgrade kit will put the buyer into the price bracket of some seriously capable kits so people can pays their money and make a choice.

As previously mentioned been asked for this a few times well before me and Matt had some forum sword fencing action on here. PS burgers are on me at Inters Matt
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 25, 2012, 03:53:52 pm
It's only banter Mate  :happy2: nothing wrong with any of your points at all it's all about knowing about a problem and then finding out how to fix it and talking with each other and updating a review on any progress in the future  :drinking:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: jhtrophy on February 26, 2012, 09:59:09 pm
Wouldnt recommend paying for mats burgers dave, by the time he is full you could have a set off vwr brakes :signLOL:
Title: Re: VW Racing Big Brake kit product review
Post by: yin on October 01, 2013, 11:02:56 pm
Mat can you confirm yours are the thinner kit at still clear the TD pros with no spacer