Are these the same as the ones at the Autosports show?
They looked very impressive there. :happy2:
do fancy a set of these behind the VWR wheels too.... so £2500 + VAT roughly...
do they do free fitting?
Big thanks to Mat,Simon,Legs :laugh: and the little boy :laugh:
so £2500 + VAT roughly...
Big thanks to Mat,Simon,Legs :laugh: and the little boy :laugh:
Have his coffee making skills improved? :grin:
They look ace mate, I bet your well chuffed! :happy2:
any weights Matt to compare to OE ?
thanks Matt :happy2:
i have the stock ones in a box and god the are heavy :surprised:
Disc and bell 7.04kgs and 4.92kgs for the caliper total 11.96kgs
about time!!! 330bhp and them brakes was not good, can still see you spittin on them at mallory when they were on fire :signLOL: tool!:signLOL: that was funny :signLOL: never again :evilgrin:
Very jealous my Northern friend, you'll have to take me out when I next see you :wink:
:signLOL:Very jealous my Northern friend, you'll have to take me out when I next see you :wink:
Christ sake Tom at least play a little hard to get. :wink:
Very nice mate! Just need some closeup pics now..... :P
What wheels are u running?
Disc and bell 7.04kgs and 4.92kgs for the caliper total 11.96kgs
....My AP Racing fronts total 10.6 Kg each :P :booty:
But they're only 4-pot :happy2:
i know i had them in my hands and was going to buy some but the option of brakes made by Caparo came well how could i say no and they are made in the uk so no jap on my car :P
i know i had them in my hands and was going to buy some but the option of brakes made by Caparo came well how could i say no and they are made in the uk so no jap on my car :P
They looked great when I had a nosey at the show.. :happy2:
i am mega happy mate and we all know VWR wont sell crap that they can not test to death on the track and on the road so even if you want the older vwr brake or the new ones like me you cant go wrong at all :notworthy:
what pads do you have? DS2500? I ordered an extra set of DS3000 because this year i'm going to Nurburgring :driver:
Very nice mate! Just need some closeup pics now..... :P
What wheels are u running?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2FDSCF0456.jpg&hash=9c545a44cae5eee2f350446d8accc1a07a9ba44b)
MATT, what's the offset of your alloys, and what is the recommended offset for the kit to have enough clearance?
^^^ No you shouldn't have clearance issues with those wheels, as Matt said they are designed to fit under the OEM wheels such as the similar Edition 30 BBS pescara which is 18x7.5" 51ET :happy2:
thank you so much guys. if only i would have found this forum earlier :grin:.
On 4th March i will receive them. Hope the blue colour of the calipers matches perfectly with my car colour :driver:
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left :happy2:
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left :happy2:
Really I wondered what that round thing was :P :P :P
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left :happy2:
Really I wondered what that round thing was :P :P :P
could be a plate :popcornsoda: :party:
caliper blue in the middle with the disc on the left :happy2:
Really I wondered what that round thing was :P :P :P
could be a plate :popcornsoda: :party:
now there's a design philosophy for a new range of Tableware :signLOL:
wow! they look awesome. :drool:
thanks guys, i'll post pictures when they arrive
MAT, on rear do you have the stock brakes? I just bought R32 rear brake kit, with Zimmermann discs
And how are the brakes with stoke rear set up Matt, initial thoughts?
MAT, are you using your stock brake lines? Or got something more performant?
Bottle top rear stoppers are where it's at - save weight and MTFU!:notworthy: :laugh:
again thank you MAT. These days you gave me some good answers. Thanks again
yeah i bought them, was apprehensive before i bought them but glad i did in the end. just cant wait to get them now
cheers, will get some photos up when on. if i didnt get these it would have defo been the VWR set, they look like a quality piece of kit
MAT, for the winter you got 18"wheels to fit the brakes? I haven't put them on the car, i'm waiting for the snow to go away :jumping:
you gonna test these brakes at a track day any time soon Mat?
then im off to the ring on the 21-25th may, will be on the GP circuit on the monday. :smiley:
Aye, we're all out there again that weekend Luke - we'll say hi if we see you.
Aye, we're all out there again that weekend Luke - we'll say hi if we see you.
Haha what a coincidence... again :smiley:
I will have to come get some pics with you lot this year :smiley:
I should have a passenger seat free at times over the weekend too :happy2:
is the centre bore not the same with the vrs? i will show mat the pic tomorrow :happy2:
is the centre bore not the same with the vrs? i will show mat the pic tomorrow :happy2:
You should have said, I'd have come over - how long you there for? I must bust the office....
I think he's talking more about the spigot not sticking out enough to mount the wheel on, rather than the bell/hub.
Where are you testing?
TEFF, with all those problems you list, your best bet is to go back to VWR and see what they can do. They'll want to solve these problems and are always very helpful in my experience.
i have sent what u said to Mat for u :happy2:
been running mine for a while and they have been fantastic and i can drive them crazy hard but as Robin has said give Mat at vwr a call as thats not good as i think the spigot ring you have fitted will be making the car vibrate so get it off and bolt the wheels on without the ring and see if that helps.
Teff, the bolts will be strong enough - try removing your spigot addition and just be very careful to torque the wheels (with them off the ground for the first bit) a little at a time, picking an opposite bolt each time.
So 12 o'clock bolt. then the 5 o'clock, then 10, then 2 then 7 - it'll naturally pull the wheel central.
Rubbing noise might just be the screw in the arch liner, as you've increase the track width of the car.
Teff,
If you only need the spigot to help mount a wheel on, then why not just get a wheel mounting tool like this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awesome-gti.co.uk%2Fshopimages%2Fproducts%2Fnormal%2Fwheel_tools.jpg&hash=ff85e89fbd77e87c5f2bb0b94bc717c191bd948f)
.....How did you do the chamfer? There is a special tool? because tomorrow i'm going back to service to change my ignition coils and to have a look at the wheel to see where it's rubbing
I would really try doing this first, i would be very very surprised if your spigot extension has anything to do with it!
As i understanded from the email the nuts on the modern cars are chamfered, and these act to align the wheel and keep it in position.
i know, but at the end of the day everything is OK when it ends OK :pomppomp:
i will do so MAT, thank you all guys for your help :congrats:i know, but at the end of the day everything is OK when it ends OK :pomppomp:
so true :happy2: let us know how things go
BBS CH should be conical - if you were sent the spherical, that's what is causing your wobble. If the bolts are correct, then VWR have everything covered with the new brakes.
Good luck.
Sorry if I have missed this..
Why do you have to run different/longer bolts..?
Which pad fitment do they run?
Have you got a price of the replacemnt pads for these? My AP 6 pot fitment pads are £260 for DS2500's
:surprised: :surprised:
That's a bit crap isn't it. Do you know if that's being changed at all?
3k road miles and a few trackdays is not really alot of mileage. So eating an entire pad is horrendous. Which pads steve?
How come yours and neils have done that but Matts haven't? Are they the same setup or do you just 'use' yours more than him
Isn't it the idea on multi piston caliper for the smaller piston to deploy first then (for low speed stopping) then the big piston for when ur stopping from High speed?
I'm sure that's what DaveB told me a while back when he explained the ins/outs of piston sizes and how they work etc
Isn't it the idea on multi piston caliper for the smaller piston to deploy first then (for low speed stopping) then the big piston for when ur stopping from High speed?
I'm sure that's what DaveB told me a while back when he explained the ins/outs of piston sizes and how they work etc
Correct but when these caliper are run that way around I have been told they aren't as good :confused: :confused:
Is this something that is related to the 6 pot kits only or do the 4 pot kuts suffer as well
Like I said it all depends how you drive the car to how quick the pads go down. How many miles has the apr car got on it with those brakes on? And that will be all road driving and it will be ragged everywhere so may give you some clue
Is this something that is related to the 6 pot kits only or do the 4 pot kuts suffer as well
Have they released a 4 pot kit now?
Like I said it all depends how you drive the car to how quick the pads go down. How many miles has the apr car got on it with those brakes on? And that will be all road driving and it will be ragged everywhere so may give you some clueI can't see how driving style will make any difference to the wear pattern, to me it would only affect the wear rate.Also worth noting these pads where flipped around about 700 miles ago to help balance out the wear but still there is a significant difference. Also the offside pads where crumbling too :surprised: :surprised:
DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.
Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.
Will you guys just out your pads out of their misery and reverse the calipers.....
This is total bunkum, small piston first ALWAYS. Despite the fan boys people need to listen to BASIC SOUND BRAKING PRINCIPLES
can-am, LMP, Formula1, Porsche road cars, Porsche GT Track Cars, Mercedes, Tarox, wildwood, AP Racing, Brembo, EVERYBODY puts the small piston first for that very reason.
PS I'll beat any price for rotors and pads for this kit, I don't need to charge much cos you'll be coming to me twice as often.
People that know, know this kit is a high margin replacement for the project Mu stuff which was hands down better quality than this stuff, all Project Mu stuff has double duty because it has to originate out of Japan and Australia.
The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?
If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.
It's like disabling first gear setting off in second and complaining about clutch wear - ON PURPOSE
and can somebody please tell me the make of the rotor? I've been asking for ages ......nobody seems to want to tell me or admit its a no name rotor.
To say these brakes are bad would be incorrect, value for money wise people can do much better
The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?
If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.
DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.
Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.
I think mine might be the other way around as Dave says mmmm will pop the pads out and have a look
DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.
Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.
Could using DS2500s not being making a small issue a much larger issue. DS2500s are only a fast road/light track pad. For what you and neilM ar suing them on caged very powerful trackcars running semi slick and even slick tyres etc. You would be able to get you would be able to get your brakes running huge temperatures compared to what i could manage on my little Fabia.
Christ, i managed to get the DS2500s to fade with 312mm discs on my octavia when at Oschersleben Motorsport Arena.
That said, the discs are only small so wont dissipate the heat as well. Guess the Octavia is a heavy beast as well
The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?
If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.
Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power? Surely outright stopping power would be similar if not identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?
Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver. Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?
The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?
If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.
Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power? Surely outright stopping power would be similar if not identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?
Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver. Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?
Thoughts Dave?
the only person using this arrangement on here is Geordie56 on his rocco, I was desperate for you to have a go in it Steve as I think you would be converted, and imvho it's the pinnacle non hyped setup for the Mk5 platform.
if he ever packs in blowing it up, I hope you'll get a go in it
So what's my point?
It's the same price as the VWR kit.......
I'm depressed now :signLOL:
Dave have you seen their 4 pot kits, wandering if they have the same issues as the 6 pots? Can you switch from a fixed two piece disc to a floating setup using the same bell or us it new everything.
Maybe vwr should look into a floating disc setup then judging by the pad wear you guys are having on track
Matt it's nothing to do with the rotor it's the caliper that is on upside down........
The vwr logo is a sticker :signLOL: it was http://www.caparoapbraking.com/ who made the brakes and I thought made the discs
It was all made in house dave they had my car for it ie I dropped my with them and they used it to design the brakes around the Pesci wheels and the pro race that I had on the car
Mine is the race kit as it was off a race car like I posted earlier today so the seals are changed on the race spec ones so I am told by Simon And matt and I think the ones on the vwr old car were the road spec ones but I am not sure only Steve will know this
It was all made in house dave they had my car for it ie I dropped my with them and they used it to design the brakes around the Pesci wheels and the pro race that I had on the car
Is yours the same kit as Steve's? Only ask as maybe he has a race spec kit on there as it was the demo car
I will PM about some updates for mine Dave, as always thanks for your input on all things friction related :happy2:
I will PM about some updates for mine Dave, as always thanks for your input on all things friction related :happy2:
Steve is that an update by vwr to fix your bbk, or update to get rid
I've emailed matt but no response yet.
I've emailed matt but no response yet.
That makes a change :laugh: :laugh:
I've emailed matt but no response yet.
That makes a change :laugh: :laugh:
:signLOL:
Dave
So if you use higher spec pads and floating rotors is that the bbk sorted.
Are all VW Cup cars running these setups?
That's unfair to say Jake, a lot of the most popular and successful calipers are two piece. If I was going to make my own I'd want to ensure they were of an advanced design reflecting the most modern design and manufacturing techniques.
Two piece calipers are a third of the cost to manufacture than monoblock unless you're making 10000 at a time
I'd also like to say I'm not for certain saying the VWR caliper Has rigidity issues, I just can't think of any other reason its reported that it works better upside down than the right way up, Caparo no doubt did the analysis.
Regarding rigidity some mono block calipers have a bolt through pad retaining pin to help, some two piece calipers such as the R8 rear (a caliper i really rate for a mk5) have a reinforcing bar across the front face as does the larger R8 front which is monoblock and has a re bar as well
We tested the xyz calipers on the bench with some pads and a hand levered master cylinder and the flex was very visible, we also then tested an AP Racing CP5020 on which the XYZ caliper was "based" which did also flex but nowhere as much, the castings will evolve over time with added mass and material. AP have had 40 years to get that casting correct.
that would take the kit to over £2.5K....that opens up a WHOLE lot of options, advanced brake kits at that sort of money deal with heat by design..... fully float in the bell systems with front face cooling for example
if you cut out the hype of which calipers people are running, in the pit lane it's simply down to what pads people run. The calipers at that level are simply there to hold the pads in the correct place nobody gives a rats arse what calipers you run, it's accepted they're up to the job and pads are what count. There's a place for the VWR kit, my issue with it is Value for Money, I've not commented on my own personal viewpoint on the kit until now, take the badge of it and it's a £1200 inc vat kit which would be competing with Forge, K-Sport, XYZ, willwood., Hi-Spec. ..... What aspect of the kit makes it £800 more expensive?
I'm just talking about the road kit, Matt - surely there's something odd about it?
The important thing here is to seperate objective and subjective opinions.
The pad wear is an issue but is it something directly related to soft pads on track cars with heavybraking thus easily solved? Maybe rotating the calipers will solve it, idont kniw. I've asked a few times on here
If they did not work they would not be on the race cars and the drivers would say get them off the cars they don't work surely :confused: or don't the guys paying for the cars get a say in anything on the cars?
.
AP no longer supply DS2500's with their kits but supply their own, as I expect many folks here already know.
.
AP no longer supply DS2500's with their kits but supply their own, as I expect many folks here already know.
Which is the same as the DS2500 compound IIRC? They just come in an AP box with an AP logo on the back of the pads.
oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves
oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves
....Exactly! All we can ever do when writing a review is share our individual opinions and experiences and it's always up to the reader to make their own decisions. :happy2:
Just typed a long reply but my IPad just sh@t a hedgehog and lost it.Countless people have bought the brakes you say and how many have had issues? As Matt has said his review is of his brakes! I think your out of order trying to blame a forum member for other peoples choice of brakes! I don't know who you are but seem to sell superior brakes and are jumping on this thread for what? Your own gain?
In summary Matt, we've met you're a nice chap and you helped me out but to throw your hands in the air and say "I don't know - ask Caparo" as soon as they start having problems just isn't good enough IMHO you've been banging the drum since day one and probably countless people have put £2k of their hard earned into these brakes on the back of this review.
We all need to be careful about product reviews, and what we endorse especially when stuffs given away.
These brakes were the best brakes ever on the way home from Milton Keynes, Caparo have no racing pedigree so it would be wrong to assume that these brakes would work well on track yet still they got a 100% review - care to explain?
I just want to bow out of this now and reiterate that these are NOT bad brakes, this is what you should expect performance wise from a £1100 brake kit, the fact that it's more than that to purchase means nothing.
As mike said if you want to play you need to pay, track brakes do not need to be as sophisticated as track brakes you need to drive to work on the following day.
There's a forum point of order here and a lesson to be learnt for everybody with cash in the pocket who reads reviews assuming they're truly independent
oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves
....Exactly! All we can ever do when writing a review is share our individual opinions and experiences and it's always up to the reader to make their own decisions. :happy2:
Hence the welcome lack of sponsorship. However RR - IMHO Sometimes your allegiance to VWR/Racing Line/Forge/AP/etc can seem overly vociferous.
oh and I don't tell people what to buy in life it's a choice they make themselves
....Exactly! All we can ever do when writing a review is share our individual opinions and experiences and it's always up to the reader to make their own decisions. :happy2:
Hence the welcome lack of sponsorship. However RR - IMHO Sometimes your allegiance to VWR/Racing Line/Forge/AP/etc can seem overly vociferous.
....You missed out a few on the list, Dave :grin: - Milltek immediately comes to mind. Then there's JKM, the Mk5 GTI, a loooong list.
Not allegance but enthusiasm. Enthusiasm for some of their products based purely on my own personal experiences. You'll notice that I have no significant experience of VWR's Big Brake kit and so I have not posted anything about that product in this thread. Also, all we can ever do is present and share information which is to the best of our knowledge at the time.
I think you probably know me well enough personally by now to realise that I am by nature enthusiastic about things or people that I like. I'm also an optimist by nature. But it's not as if I am never critical of products or services. Anyway, as Mat says, folks can make up their own minds and it's not a problem if some of us don't always agree about various products and services.
Errrr if you read most of the other brake related threads on here you'd see that people value DaveB's advice on all things Brakes related. He doesn't have to do it as I'm sure he'd rather spend time with his family and fly planes!
Think this is the first time he's aired his views on the VWR package in a detailed way. Is he not allowed his opinion on an open forum just like everyone else ??
In summary Matt, we've met you're a nice chap and you helped me out but to throw your hands in the air and say "I don't know - ask Caparo" as soon as they start having problems just isn't good enough IMHO you've been banging the drum since day one and probably countless people have put £2k of their hard earned into these brakes on the back of this review.
Errrr if you read most of the other brake related threads on here you'd see that people value DaveB's advice on all things Brakes related. He doesn't have to do it as I'm sure he'd rather spend time with his family and fly planes!
Think this is the first time he's aired his views on the VWR package in a detailed way. Is he not allowed his opinion on an open forum just like everyone else ??
....Very much agreed about DaveB's contributions to this forum.
However, he doesn't have to be so critical of Mat personally (as I quote below) does he. Mat hasn't been "banging the drum" at all - He's been very calm and merely shared his enthusiasm at appropriate times. [The word "enthusiasm" has a different meaning than "allegiance", QDave]
It seems that if a posted review is negatively critical it's better received than if it's enthusiastically positive even if it contains critical elements. John_O's original template for forum reviews where he included both Plus Points and Minus Points is the way to go.
Enthusiastically Agreed with no allegiance.
Whoah.
I do NOT like where this thread has gone.
Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up. I do not think it is fair to kick his arse for his opinion of his brakes. It's like complaining my apple isn't as crunchy as his, it may have come from the same orchard, but it ain't the same apple.
Matt knows VWR, so what? I couldn't give a rat's ass if he was given a hundred pounds to put those brakes on his car, because I know for a fact he isn't disingenuous.
There's a lot of people taking kick-backs and cheap/free stuff to be test mules or for their gear to be seen on 'halo' cars, it's gone on since the dawn of time. I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Speak now, of forever hold your hypocrisy.
Shame on some of you. If you've got a problem, see VWR/Caparo - don't moan at Matt.
I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Shame on some of you.
Whoah.
I do NOT like where this thread has gone.
Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up. I do not think it is fair to kick his arse for his opinion of his brakes. It's like complaining my apple isn't as crunchy as his, it may have come from the same orchard, but it ain't the same apple.
Matt knows VWR, so what? I couldn't give a rat's ass if he was given a hundred pounds to put those brakes on his car, because I know for a fact he isn't disingenuous.
There's a lot of people taking kick-backs and cheap/free stuff to be test mules or for their gear to be seen on 'halo' cars, it's gone on since the dawn of time. I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Speak now, of forever hold your hypocrisy.
Shame on some of you. If you've got a problem, see VWR/Caparo - don't moan at Matt.
Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up.If Matt has a different version of the kit, then surely his review is valid for only his type of kit? I'd have thought it could generally been applicable to other versions but would be invalid.
As far as I'm concerned, Matt's and Jabbalad's opinions and review are valid. They are not however a review of V2 of the kit and whilst I believe this is clear reading the thread, prehaps a header on the first post is needed because of my suggestion thus.+1 agree with this point. The review needs to reflect the version of the kit so others are aware.
Whoah.
I do NOT like where this thread has gone.
Everyone knows Matt has a different version of the kit to most of the people who have voiced concerns over its make up. I do not think it is fair to kick his arse for his opinion of his brakes. It's like complaining my apple isn't as crunchy as his, it may have come from the same orchard, but it ain't the same apple.
Matt knows VWR, so what? I couldn't give a rat's ass if he was given a hundred pounds to put those brakes on his car, because I know for a fact he isn't disingenuous.
There's a lot of people taking kick-backs and cheap/free stuff to be test mules or for their gear to be seen on 'halo' cars, it's gone on since the dawn of time. I was pretty much given a WALK kit, does anyone doubt my integrity or reviews of it? Speak now, or forever hold your hypocrisy.
Shame on some of you. If you've got a problem, see VWR/Caparo - don't moan at Matt.
I don't believe there are differences in the callers, the difference is in the disc bell, I.e. standard or wide, the wide version being the one to support oem wheels as it has the 10mm spacer built in.
I don't believe there are differences in the callers, the difference is in the disc bell, I.e. standard or wide, the wide version being the one to support oem wheels as it has the 10mm spacer built in.
Are we any further with your brake solution steve?
Having not driven the car yet I can't say anymore at this stage but Kev and Pies at KPM tell me there is no noticeable difference to the pedal feel or stopping power.