MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: breeze on September 15, 2022, 09:26:55 pm
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As above, I thought the combination would be a nice OEM-ish upgrade.
However I am finding it a massive pain getting the console bushes fitted. They are very tight on the wishbone and I don’t see how they are going on without a hydraulic press.
Is this normal? Hammering using a socket definitely not working.
Wishbones are used genuine, console bushes are FEBI.
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Yup, that is how the OEM consoles are. Even my knackered originals needed hammering off the wishbones. Only the poly aftermarket ones slip in easily.
The Passat wishbones are slightly tighter than the steel arms from memory, and perhaps the FEBI bushes are slightly tighter than OEM, so they're both conspiring against you.
Try some silicon lube on the wishbone/bush and keep at it.
Did the Febi bushes fit in the consoles OK? I bought the Febi S3 bushes from Darkside ages ago but haven't yet fitted them.
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Yup, that is how the OEM consoles are. Even my knackered originals needed hammering off the wishbones. Only the poly aftermarket ones slip in easily.
The Passat wishbones are slightly tighter than the steel arms from memory, and perhaps the FEBI bushes are slightly tighter than OEM, so they're both conspiring against you.
Try some silicon lube on the wishbone/bush and keep at it.
Did the Febi bushes fit in the consoles OK? I bought the Febi S3 bushes from Darkside ages ago but haven't yet fitted them.
Hammering I would be OK with! I was hammering the Febi units quite hard and they were not moving beyond about 2/3 way... They were the complete assembled parts, so bush already inside the aluminium carrier. I tried WD40, copper grease, everything.
This morning I went and bought some Lemforder OEM replacements (MK5 specification, not S3). They went on exactly how I would expect them to have gone on; tight and requiring a good strong tap with a socket, but not needing a hydraulic press. From ECP which means I paid a massive premium even with the 'discount'.
I will send the Febi items back. A real shame because I liked the look of the bush - a nice solid piece of rubber.
If I were doing again I would probably avoid mixing the Febi rear bushes and Passat wishbones. As you say, could be that the Febi bushes are a bit tighter and the Passat wishbones are a bit bigger.
Quite a few things coming together at the front end; aluminium subframe inserts and new bolts, Powerflex ARB bushes (to match rear), Passat wishbones and Lemforder front and rear wishbone bushes. Hoping the effort is worthwhile!
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Ah right, so you bought complete S3 consoles? You do know they're not compatible with the MK5 don't you, so fate intervened there to spare you from yet more grief.
You could just press some Febi S3 bushes into the Lemforder consoles, which is standard practice. Passat and S3 wishbones are the same, so if anything they should have flopped right into the S3 consoles! But I think as they were aftermarket parts, that probably explains the fitment issues. Lemorder are the actually manufacturer and supplier to VW.
Yeah the effort is definitely worthwhile :happy2:
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Ah right, so you bought complete S3 consoles? You do know they're not compatible with the MK5 don't you, so fate intervened there to spare you from yet more grief.
You could just press some Febi S3 bushes into the Lemforder consoles, which is standard practice. Passat and S3 wishbones are the same, so if anything they should have flopped right into the S3 consoles! But I think as they were aftermarket parts, that probably explains the fitment issues. Lemorder are the actually manufacturer and supplier to VW.
Yeah the effort is definitely worthwhile :happy2:
Are you sure S3 are not compatible? I thought that was TT.
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Yup. Completely different console housings. They look the same at first glance, but when offering them up the car, you notice it.
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Ahh OK. :grin:
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I made that mistake years ago after reading on here that people have used them. Bought a pair, went to fit them to the car and.....oh. OK then, onto ebay with those then :grin:
The part number for the bush to press into GTI consoles is 8Z0 407 183, which aren't available from VAG, but Lemforder do them for about £14 each on AutoDoc :happy2: They will likely fit better than the Febi ones.
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Sorry to be a thread highjacker, but I'm watching a couple of passat b6 2008 tdi front wishbones on ebay, are they compatible and would the complete s3 console bush in alloy housing fit on the stub ? This thread has thrown me a bit, that's all.
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The wishbones fit a GTI no problem, but you need 8Z0 407 183 pressed into standard GTI console housings if you want uprated, otherwise use standard consoles or aftermarket poly ones.
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OK thanks for the reply, one last question, do the gti ball joints fit on the passat arms ? I've just replaced mine.
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I believe they do, but I used Passat ones to keep it all consistent.
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Yes they fit. I used front and rear bushes and balljoints listed for the GTI in the end. All fitted no problem.
If I were doing it all again I think I would buy Passat arms new, with the front bush pressed in. I bought used arms and ended up needing to get a mechanic to press the front bushes in, which in London 2022 prices was £60. I think Lemforder fully made up wasn’t much more.
Another thing I found… my car had quite a lot of front axle lift under acceleration. With anti lift kits being all the rage I strongly suspected that was what I needed but wanted to try OEM first. The factory spec Lemforder bush seems to have massively improved the lift. I bet S3 bushes would be even better, just wouldn’t recommend with the B6 arms.
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So are the console housings that will come with my b6 arms that I've just ordered not be compatible with it then ?
My plan is to build them up then I can just unbolt the steel ones off my car and then put the b6 ones on straight away to save time.
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'Anti-lift' is just race car marketing BS used by Whiteline, Super Pro et al to make a stiffer bush sound more amazing than it really is - in order to justify the hideous price of them.
Anyway, re: Passat consoles, no idea mate. Cross reference the GTI's p/n and see if it also applies to the Passat. I think they are the same tbh. It's pretty much just S3 and TT that have incompatible differences.
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So are the console housings that will come with my b6 arms that I've just ordered not be compatible with it then ?
My plan is to build them up then I can just unbolt the steel ones off my car and then put the b6 ones on straight away to save time.
Not sure I follow.
Have you bought used B6 arms with used front bushes and used rear bushes? If so, all of that will bolt up fine, just would be a shame to fit worn rubber bushes.
If you want to reuse the outer housing for the console with a new S3 internal bush, my experience is that the B6 arms will be a tight fit and you may struggle without a press. I’m not sure whether that was because mine were Febi or because S3 bushes in general are tighter. So be prepared for some pain if S3 console bushes and B6 arms are being used.
Honestly I think doing what I did (B6 arms and new GTI Lemforder bush and console) is enough.
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He's wondering if the Passat console bush housings are the same as the S3's, therefore not compatible with the MK5.
If you want to get the parts ready in advance of the job (always a wise move), my recommendation is to buy a pair of Lemforder S3 bushes from AutoDoc (ECP don't do them) and press them into second hand GTI bush housings. Either a generic bearing puller kit from Amazon, or find a local workshop and sling them a tenner. In either case, pay attention to the bush alignment, don't just throw them in any old how :grin:
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I'm starting to gather up parts to do this myself. Are there any differences in the front bushing between the GTI and S3?
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Nope. Same bush across the board.
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If I were doing this again I think I would just buy new complete B6 arms (with front bush, rear bush and balljoint). I’m pretty sure you can buy them whole and there would be no need to press anything.
I had all kinds of axle tramp/looseness/lift issues with the original parts but they all went away with new bushes and used B6 arms. Think this is one of those areas where we upgrade bushes without considering what new OEM might feel like. S3 probably is better, just not sure it is worth the headache.
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They are different - the GTI version has cavities and S3 solid:
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/tt-uprated-wishbone-console-bushes-for-golf-mk5-platform.html (https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/tt-uprated-wishbone-console-bushes-for-golf-mk5-platform.html)
PN listed as "1K0 407 182 - 1K0407183"
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They are different - the GTI version has cavities and S3 solid:
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/tt-uprated-wishbone-console-bushes-for-golf-mk5-platform.html (https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/tt-uprated-wishbone-console-bushes-for-golf-mk5-platform.html)
PN listed as "1K0 407 182 - 1K0407183"
Rear bush different, front the same.
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FWIW, the front bushes rarely cause any problems as they have minimal load on them compared to the rear bush, so unless it's noticeably split/perished, I wouldn't bother replacing them personally.
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Thanks lads, good info :happy2:
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They are different - the GTI version has cavities and S3 solid:
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/tt-uprated-wishbone-console-bushes-for-golf-mk5-platform.html (https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/tt-uprated-wishbone-console-bushes-for-golf-mk5-platform.html)
PN listed as "1K0 407 182 - 1K0407183"
Rear bush different, front the same.
sorry - thought we were talking about rears!
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I know this is a bit of a thread revival, but ive foubd the information conflicting.
Will a complete set of audi s3 8p wishbones and bushes be a direct swap onto my mk5 GTI ED30 or not? I found these below, but information seems to differ and I'm confused. Will these fit?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166941274249?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=n2KRI1AGQ8G&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=o1fABoqZQae&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
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Just get the Passat B6 ones as they'll be cheaper. Get the Passat alloy knuckles as well. Slightly different tie rod angle so the steering response sharpens up a bit too, not to mention an unsprung weight reduction.
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Just get the Passat B6 ones as they'll be cheaper. Get the Passat alloy knuckles as well. Slightly different tie rod angle so the steering response sharpens up a bit too, not to mention an unsprung weight reduction.
I ended up buying the wishbones and s3 bushes/consoles in that ebay advert I linked to before you replied, the bushes are in perfect condition still despite being used. I've also bought new bolts, but have not gotten around to trying to fit yet. I appreciate your feedback above - So the part number for those wishbones is 3C0407153B - which from my searches are from the Passat, unless somebody can beg to differ? I won't be upgrading from the GTI knuckles at this time, the aim was to sharpen up the steering and lose some unsprung weight, which alloy wishbones at half the weight of my current ones and S3 solid bushes should do. Also benefit from keeping everything OEM and rubber, rather than going down the route of an aftermarket Anti-lift kit and polybushes. I might buy some new ball joints because I'll be unbolting them anyway, although mine are currently fine.
My only remaining question is whether the consoles and S3 bushes that came with the wishbones will be a straight fit. My other searches say yes, but conflicting information in this thread says no?!