MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: smilespergallon on January 27, 2023, 03:32:41 pm
-
I've got a 57 plate Mk5 Golf GTI Edition 30. I've only ever had it serviced by independent garages, but now I'm starting to service it myself, and I'm really enjoying it.
Whilst I'm giving it a thorough service, is it worth changing the gearbox oil?
I've read that according to Volkswagen it technically never needs changing. But considering the car is 15 years old and has done 150,000 miles, I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile doing so anyway. Nothing feels wrong with the gearbox as it is, but then again I suppose I can't remember what the gear changes felt like when I first got the car years ago.
Would there be any benefit to changing it? Or am I best off just leaving it if it doesn't seem bad at the moment?
Thanks in advance!
P.S. If I do change it, is Fuchs Titan Sintofluid SAE 75W80 GL-4 Manual Transmission Fluid the correct gearbox oil?
-
I would. I always change the gearbox oil in my cars and post change the gearshift is always better.
The colour of the used oil is always darker than the new stuff I put in. I'm not sure on which specific oil you need.
My golf is DSG and I change that oil every 2 years.
-
I'd use the genuine vw oil, heard bad reports about aftermarket oils. Vw stuff is expensive but it's not like you're changing it regularly like the engine oil.
-
My MK5 manual says to change DSG oil every 60.000 km (every 37282.272 miles for you imperialists out there)
I've not done it on mine yet, still 5000 km or so left on the interval.
My golf is DSG and I change that oil every 2 years.
On a scale from tire kicker to Mighty Car Mods, how difficult would you say the job is? They're charging the equivalent of $450 to change it around here. Which seems, you know. A bit much if I could do it myself.
-
Easy job on a manual. You may need a funnel and it is generally wise to remove the fill plug before removing the drain plug (to be certain you can refill).
I’d only use the genuine oil from a dealer.
At 150k with no evidence of a change I would be doing one for sure.
-
I have a manual and changed the gearbox oil at 80k, no difference at all afterwards. The oil that came out was slightly darker than the new stuff but driving the car is exactly the same as before. I didn't buy the current gearbox oil, I asked the VW parts desk for the part number of the oil from previous revisions and bought that off ebay at £65 for 3 litres. The stuff I put in is what my car left the factory with according to VW, although Coverdale say the gearbox oil in a Ed30 is different to the mk5 gti?
-
My MK5 manual says to change DSG oil every 60.000 km (every 37282.272 miles for you imperialists out there)
I've not done it on mine yet, still 5000 km or so left on the interval.
My golf is DSG and I change that oil every 2 years.
i'd say it's only slightly more involved than changing your engine oil, and that's due to how you fill the gearbox back up. It's deffo a DIY job and once you've done it you'll never have to pay for someone else to do it.
Here's a guide.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Volkswagen_Golf_GTI_Mk_V/69-TRANS-DSG_Transmission_Oil_and_Filter_Replacement/69-TRANS-DSG_Transmission_Oil_and_Filter_Replacement.htm
On a scale from tire kicker to Mighty Car Mods, how difficult would you say the job is? They're charging the equivalent of $450 to change it around here. Which seems, you know. A bit much if I could do it myself.
-
I'd use the genuine vw oil, heard bad reports about aftermarket oils. Vw stuff is expensive but it's not like you're changing it regularly like the engine oil.
I have owned my car from new and changed the gear oil twice. The shift in cold weather was awful with the original factory oil, thick as treacle and always graunchy / slow synchro into second when warm. Will get better (after your warranty expires…) said the local dealer. Changed it to Millers nt gear oil a few years later and, whilst better, the issues never went away. The following year I changed to the revised spec OEM oil and the problems disappeared. Despite the same sae rating, this oil is as thin as piss when you pour it. Expensive, but cheaper than doing the job twice.
-
Hi,
I changed the oil in mine a while back there was no evidence it had ever been changed in its lifetime.
There were 2 types of genuine oil listed at the time but it was difficult to find out the differences between the 2.
This one went in G 052527 A2 which was the recommended oil by my dealer.
I bought a new filler plug because sometimes they can be hard to remove ( it came out fine, allen key type)
From memory It took approx 2.1 litres to start to show on the level bung with the car jacked up level front to back and sides, similar to what came out.
I used a sealey transfer gun, suck out of bottle and squirt in gearbox.
As breeze said, undo the level bung first so you know you can re-fill
It shifted nice before and continues to after, only changed for maintenance. :happy2:
-
Thanks everyone for the advice.
I ended up using Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W80 gearbox oil. This was £40 for 3 litres off eBay, whereas getting the OEM oil from somewhere like darksidedevelopments.co.uk was more like £110 for 3 litres (https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/genuine-vw-transmission-oil-g-052-911-a2.html). I read around the Internet that Fuchs Titan Sintofluid was the same as OEM rebranded. A lot of people just said to stick with OEM, but I couldn't find anywhere that said that Fuchs was bad in any way, so I thought I'd give it a go.
It looked to be about the same consistency. Very thin. I think the oil already in the gearbox might have been slightly thinner, but then again it was hot when it came out so it's not a fair comparison. Either way it didn't look too far off.
The oil that came out of the gearbox was pretty dark, as expected.
I've been driving the car with the new oil for a couple of days now. The gearbox feels absolutely fine. Nothing suggests to me so far that the Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W80 was the wrong oil to use. I wouldn't say changing the oil has made a massive difference. Possibly slightly smoother gear changes, but that just might be a bit of a placebo effect. Either way I'm glad I changed it.
It was real easy to change the oil as well -- just a 10mm hex/allen bolt for the fill and another 10mm allen bolt for the drain. I ended up feeding a PCV tube with a funnel attached down through the engine bay to fill up the gearbox with the new oil. About 2.2L came out, and it started to overflow after about 2.4L went in.
-
You might find that oil is a bit harder to get into gear when very cold.
-
I ended up using Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W80 gearbox oil. This was £40 for 3 litres off eBay, whereas getting the OEM oil from somewhere like darksidedevelopments.co.uk was more like £110 for 3 litres (https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/genuine-vw-transmission-oil-g-052-911-a2.html). I read around the Internet that Fuchs Titan Sintofluid was the same as OEM rebranded. A lot of people just said to stick with OEM, but I couldn't find anywhere that said that Fuchs was bad in any way, so I thought I'd give it a go.
More like £180 - https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/genuine-vw-gearbox-case-oil-1-litre-g-052-527-a2-g052527a2.html
Your link isn't the most up-to-date oil.
Fuchs is one of the best manufacturers of oils in the world, so no issue there. Hardly anyone has heard of them, but they make the famous Silkolene ester racing oil, and the Quantum Platinum range.
-
Has anybody actually used the G052527A2 £60/litre oil? I have the G052171A2 £30/litre oil in mine.
Posts that I have found:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/please-help-me-tell-the-difference-between-two-vw-manual-trans-oils.339444/ (https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/please-help-me-tell-the-difference-between-two-vw-manual-trans-oils.339444/)
https://uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?t=78026 (https://uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?t=78026)
https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=131783.0 (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=131783.0)
That makes me think I should be fine on the earlier formula, unless somebody can explain what the real world difference is (it looks like there is a small difference in warm viscosity).
-
Has anybody actually used the G052527A2 £60/litre oil? I have the G052171A2 £30/litre oil in mine.
Posts that I have found:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/please-help-me-tell-the-difference-between-two-vw-manual-trans-oils.339444/ (https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/please-help-me-tell-the-difference-between-two-vw-manual-trans-oils.339444/)
https://uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?t=78026 (https://uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?t=78026)
https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=131783.0 (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=131783.0)
That makes me think I should be fine on the earlier formula, unless somebody can explain what the real world difference is (it looks like there is a small difference in warm viscosity).
I used G052171A2 when I did my gearbox oil. VW parts desk said its perfectly fine to use and likely what was already in my gearbox. I've an Ed30 and for some reason Coverdale specifically state ****THIS OIL IS NOT FOR S3 8P MANUAL, MK5 ED30, VRS OR CUPRA R**** but I can't see what's different between a GTI and Ed30 gearbox, the S3 gearbox I can understand possibly needing a different oil? Anyway, I changed the gearbox oil with G052171A2 and there's no difference whatsoever, no cold or hot shifting issues so perfectly happy with my choice and was pretty cheap from an ebay seller.
-
S3 has a transfer box attached to it, but that wouldn't make any difference anyway. ED30 and GTI gearboxes are identical.
I can't remember what genuine oil I used in mine last, but I certainly wouldn't have paid £180 for it :grin:
Closest match to the OEM oil I found in terms of cold shifting performance was Redline MTL.
-
You might find that oil is a bit harder to get into gear when very cold.
You're right. It snowed today in the UK and the temperature was around zero.
Getting in to first and second gear was noticeably more difficult. Not impossible, but definitely takes a bit more effort than it did before. The other gears such as third and above are okay, just first and second were the stiffer ones, not sure why.
So yeah, it's not annoying enough to change it in the meantime, but if I change it again in the future I think I'd probably go for the extortionate genuine VW oil, or try that Redline MTL that Pudding suggested.
So yeah, Fuchs Titan Sintofluid is fine when it's about 2 celsius and above, but below that and it's harder to get in to gear.
-
As a guess, I'd say it's because 1st and 2nd are the biggest gears, and therefore harder work on the syncro rings to speed match them. Syncros don't work well with thick oil, which is probably why VW keep changing the formula.
Normally improvements can be made using aftermarket fluids in most cars, but VW's gear oil is one example where it simply cannot be improved upon.
I vaguely remember a post on VWVortex years ago where a chemical expert analysed VW's gear oil and said it's way better than anything even in the racing oils market.
I can't remember the exact Redline flavour I used as there's a few of them. It might have been the 75W80 flavour. Redline's shockproof is also known to improve the shift on VW boxes. Not always from stone cold, that will take some trial and error, but generally when hot during high rpm shifts, where the stock oil can struggle.
You could take a brave pill and sling some automatic transmission fluid in it :grin: It's standard practice in E39 M5s and some other manuals of that era. Those boxes are even worse than VW's for 1st-2nd cold shifts, but auto trans fluid totally transforms them.
-
You could take a brave pill and sling some automatic transmission fluid in it :grin: It's standard practice in E39 M5s and some other manuals of that era. Those boxes are even worse than VW's for 1st-2nd cold shifts, but auto trans fluid totally transforms them.
Thanks Pudding.
So if I were to go the brave route, are we talking about 100ml of ATF to thin the current oil down a little bit?
-
You could take a brave pill and sling some automatic transmission fluid in it :grin: It's standard practice in E39 M5s and some other manuals of that era. Those boxes are even worse than VW's for 1st-2nd cold shifts, but auto trans fluid totally transforms them.
Thanks Pudding.
So if I were to go the brave route, are we talking about 100ml of ATF to thin the current oil down a little bit?
Nope, drain all the gear oil out and replacing it with transmission fluid :happy2:
It was on my to do list for mine but I never got around to it. Something like LiquiMoly TopTec 1200 would suffice.
It seems like an alien concept putting automatic transmission fluid in a manual gearbox, but auto boxes also have meshing gears inside them like a manual box, and ATF does them no harm :happy2: VW's MTF is so thin, it's probably not far off ATF when hot anyway.
It won't hurt to try it. Just drain it out and put MTF back in if it doesn't work out :smiley: You'll soon know, but just drive it gently in your local area at first.
Obviously I'm not pushing this as a wide scale recommendation, but merely as an experiment to see if it helps, so do it at your own risk :grin: If it doesn't hurt M5 gearboxes, I can't see it harming a VW box either tbh. Some OEMs even use ATF in their Manuals :happy2:
-
Ebay item 404168239273 and multi buy 3 bottles at £21.61 each.
-
Just wanted to give a quick update in case anyone finds this thread in the future.
I ended up changing the gearbox oil from the Fuchs Titan Sintofluid SAE 75W80 GL-4 I put in a few months ago back to the official Volkswagen Gearbox oil (part number G 052 171 A2).
From all my research it seemed like the Fuchs would do the job and might have been what Volkswagen use but rebranded. However, it was slightly thicker and it took a bit of effort to get in to first and second gear when it was really cold outside. I had some time (and money) on my hands this weekend so I changed it back to the Volkswagen oil.
It's not freezing cold here at the moment, but the gearbox definitely shifts more easily than it did with the Fuchs Titan Sintofluid. So if you're going to change the gearbox oil on your manual Mk5 Golf GTI, it's worth splashing out on getting the official stuff rather than Fuchs. It wasn't bad, but it just wasn't perfect.
I managed to find 3 bottles of the VW stuff on eBay for about £22 each. I think they turn up every now and then.
-
Yeah the VW stuff is the best by far :happy2: Followed closely by Redline Lightweight Shockproof.
-
Had mine changed. Old stuff was almost black not golden like the new so probably worth doing.