MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Hurdy on May 21, 2010, 03:28:32 am

Title: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on May 21, 2010, 03:28:32 am
Okay, there's no specific thread about the K04 hybrid and I think that it would be a good idea to discuss some of the implications of fitting etc.

I've looked on the Turbo dynamics website and there is NO information on there at all. Quite a bit of generalised, assumed power and torque outputs have been mentioned, but nothing specific with any back-up from Dyno's etc.

All we know for sure is that Luke (Jabbalad) has had one fitted and can feel through the "butt dyno" that it feels stronger at the top end. We have had a little info off the thread saying that the spool is around 250rpm later than an OEM K04 and that it will push more air.

I've heard mentioned from other sources that the K04 hybrid will make only 10-20 bhp, but again there's no back-up for this. I've also spoken to a few tuners, who say that the hybrid K04 will not be worth the money long term as the longevity isn't usually good on hybrids made from OEM turbo's.

Price is probably going to be circa £2k once fitting and mapping has been done.

I'd love it if the K04 hybrid made 30+bhp on top of what I have now, but will it?

I'd hope that the K04 hybrid would last 30k+ miles, but will it?

Anyone have any info or input as it is all welcome :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: edd666999 on May 21, 2010, 04:14:48 am
sorry for the 1st reply to be a little off topic, but id like there to be a k03 hybrid too! but for it to be more cost effective than just getting a k04 and all the other gubbins that come along with it!
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 21, 2010, 07:33:47 am
sorry for the 1st reply to be a little off topic, but id like there to be a k03 hybrid too! but for it to be more cost effective than just getting a k04 and all the other gubbins that come along with it!
jabba are looking into a k03 hybrid, with cut back turbine blades, and k04 illet wheels.  think they need a guinea pig as wel, because thry dont have a k03 car available.  Potential for some big savings there.

Quote
I'd love it if the K04 hybrid made 30+bhp on top of what I have now, but will it?

different turbo, but there was a ko4 hybrid conversion available for the 1.8T Bam engines.  they maxed out at about 270HP on the std turbo, and when hybridised they could just make 300Hp.  some companies claim much more, but most guys with it say they made 300HP.  so if that was possible to gain 30Hp it could potentially get that with the TFSI k04 turbo
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 21, 2010, 07:42:35 am
does he hybrid run more boost as well??

if so the likes of an S3 cooler might not be up to the job especially in the summer. 
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: DanGB on May 21, 2010, 09:54:45 am
does he hybrid run more boost as well??

if so the likes of an S3 cooler might not be up to the job especially in the summer. 

WMI will deal with that problem.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on May 21, 2010, 09:55:55 am
I'm still not sold on the WMI

What do you do if you run out and can't get hold of any for a couple of days?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: GTIjames on May 21, 2010, 10:04:22 am
owen developments have there K04 hybrid out - you cant post off your old one to owen though, as they only do a new turbo hybrid option - they quoted me £1800 delivered

from some posts in the jabba's thread it seem turbo dynamics are a little picky with the turbo's they will hybrid..

so owen developments option works out cheaper if you require a new turbo, they also use a forge k04 actuator which I have not seen listed on the turbo dynamics spec for the hybrid

and finally these chaps FR tuning are offering the turbo dynamics k04 hybrid upgrade for £595, which is considerably cheaper than others i have seen  :happy2:

http://www.fr-rtuning-shop.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=984  (http://www.fr-rtuning-shop.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=984)
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on May 21, 2010, 10:46:55 am
does he hybrid run more boost as well??

if so the likes of an S3 cooler might not be up to the job especially in the summer. 

No more boost, but peak boost is supposed to hold on till much later in the rev range, rather than a spike and a drop back like the OEM version.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: neg on May 21, 2010, 11:20:05 am
On the K03 note, I spoke to a turbo overhaller last year sometime and they said it would be possible to do over the K03 and fit the K04 turbine etc - they then came back to me to say they wouldnt be able to do it - but not sure if it was 'they couldn't' or a 'it wouldnt'

In theory is was possible from what I found out but I am no turbo surgeon   :grin:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hedge on May 21, 2010, 11:22:31 am
does he hybrid run more boost as well??

if so the likes of an S3 cooler might not be up to the job especially in the summer. 

No more boost, but peak boost is supposed to hold on till much later in the rev range, rather than a spike and a drop back like the OEM version.

Is it not also shifting a greater volume of air?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on May 21, 2010, 11:29:39 am

Is it not also shifting a greater volume of air?

Apparently 20-25% more air, but I've not had anything confirmed. :surprised:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on May 21, 2010, 11:30:38 am
and finally these chaps FR tuning are offering the turbo dynamics k04 hybrid upgrade for £595, which is considerably cheaper than others i have seen  :happy2:

http://www.fr-rtuning-shop.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=984  (http://www.fr-rtuning-shop.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=984)

With VAT it is still £700 on that link. :smiley:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on May 21, 2010, 06:24:47 pm
Im not sure but I think thi has been done beforeon an individual basis, Dave Massey at ADS had a Continental GT impeller or housing on his ibiza from what I recall.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 21, 2010, 08:28:26 pm
I'm still not sold on the WMI

What do you do if you run out and can't get hold of any for a couple of days?

REVO gives the simplest fix of everything.  if you run it as a standalone mod with no map tweaks then no adjustment would be required to sort it as r=the ecu would readapt back to the original setting before the WMI was installed. 

if you have tweaked the timing, to utilise the WM then all you would need to do is wind the timing back if it runs out, back to the settings you ar running now.

for other guys you can get boost controllers that lower boost etc when the mixture gets low
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Top Cat on May 21, 2010, 10:14:47 pm
Did Jonny not mention that the main feature of the hybrid is its reliability and strength.
i would want more than 30,000 miles out of one.  :scared:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 05, 2010, 08:37:29 pm
Update,

Confirmed via VCDS.

303gms/sec at 7350rpm from the K04 hybrid. :innocent:

Still not fully tuned either. :rolleye:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on June 05, 2010, 08:39:41 pm
That works about at about 378bhp.

Isn't that less than you had before?

Or does this hold that power for longer?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 05, 2010, 08:49:29 pm
Side by side the K04 hybrid is definitely faster up top.

ITG intakes are pulling in around 280gm/sec. Similar to Evoms and Twintakes.

Not my Hybrid BTW :smiley:

Oh and it is running GIAC software.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on June 05, 2010, 08:52:35 pm
So do you reckon you could break the 400bhp mark if you put one on yours?

Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 05, 2010, 09:19:52 pm
stadtler being playing with hybrids then have they.  this looks to me like you are about to fettle wit your turbo :wink:

was that with an ITG??

more importantly rather than just looking at that peak figure, what was the original g/s prior to the hybrid.  be good to see the gains
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 05, 2010, 09:32:01 pm
So do you reckon you could break the 400bhp mark if you put one on yours?

Who says I haven't :wink:

stadtler being playing with hybrids then have they.  this looks to me like you are about to fettle wit your turbo :wink:
was that with an ITG??
more importantly rather than just looking at that peak figure, what was the original g/s prior to the hybrid.  be good to see the gains

Nail on head :grin:

They use a VF intake.

You are looking at a good 20-30g/s increase, but I haven't seen the full logs graphed yet.

My Guesstimation (is that a word?) is that the air intake will pass the stock K04 around 3.5krpm and gain ground to the redline and still making power at the redline (7400rpm).

I'm also hoping that the g/s will increase when the mapping is completed. At the moment he is running a GIAC K04 race file.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 05, 2010, 09:38:10 pm
you reckon you could get them to  post them up on here :happy2:  im sure alot of guys would be intersted in that.

good news for jabaluke. this means the GIAC dsg remap hasno issues, so he could bin of his revo DSg jobbie. 
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 05, 2010, 09:43:39 pm
you reckon you could get them to  post them up on here :happy2:  im sure alot of guys would be intersted in that.

good news for jabaluke. this means the GIAC dsg remap hasno issues, so he could bin of his revo DSg jobbie. 

Never thought of that, but you are right. Steve has no issues with his car at all. :happy2:

Craig is already a member on here, but neither of them really get time out of running the business as they work 8am till 9pm most days.

I'll get hold of the logs next week and graph them to do a direct comparison if they are okay with it :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hedge on June 05, 2010, 10:25:54 pm
So do you reckon you could break the 400bhp mark if you put one on yours?

Who says I haven't :wink:

Me. Prove me wrong.  :P
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 05, 2010, 11:03:05 pm
So do you reckon you could break the 400bhp mark if you put one on yours?

Who says I haven't :wink:

Me. Prove me wrong.  :P

I drew this earlier :signLOL:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2F400BHP.jpg&hash=7db170c4cc174cbcca64ce91295667f0212ac1b9)
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: micky 32 on June 06, 2010, 12:06:52 am
What does the standard KO4 (mg) run at the redline? What gear to use 4th?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: bacillus on June 06, 2010, 12:26:36 am
What does the standard KO4 (mg) run at the redline? What gear to use 4th?

Technically you can use any gear but you may be limited by the sampling rate in vcds in first and second gear. There is adequate sampling rate in third gear upwards
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 06, 2010, 03:51:04 am
What does the standard KO4 (mg) run at the redline? What gear to use 4th?

Mine ran 194g/s max (but drops off at redline)

I always run 3rd or 4th gears and ask for 4th for a dyno. :smiley:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 08, 2010, 10:17:44 pm
any more info then. 

have you spoken to revo about using their k04 stage 2+ software on the hybrid
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: bacillus on June 08, 2010, 10:41:52 pm
I suspect the standard revo map even with sps plus tweaking won't be able to fully handle the hybrid boost profile. 
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 08, 2010, 10:45:54 pm
hurdy mentioned before he thought he could keep his map and tweak it. 

was just wandering whether REVO had a take on this??
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 08, 2010, 11:25:28 pm
The K04 hybrid overboosts against requested with a K04 remap, it is looking more likely that an SPS+ controller will not get the most from the turbo. RS4 injectors are giving better fuelling too. All this is pointing to needing a stage 3 map.

I haven't spoken to Carl again yet, but I will do. :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 08, 2010, 11:28:25 pm
The K04 hybrid overboosts against requested with a K04 remap, it is looking more likely that an SPS+ controller will not get the most from the turbo. RS4 injectors are giving better fuelling too. All this is pointing to needing a stage 3 map.

I haven't spoken to Carl again yet, but I will do. :happy2:

wander if they will be keen for this.  they didnt seem to helpful when Gilm easlookin for a custom map for his GT28.   Giac maybe or jabba since they have already developed maps for them
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 08, 2010, 11:34:20 pm
The K04 hybrid overboosts against requested with a K04 remap, it is looking more likely that an SPS+ controller will not get the most from the turbo. RS4 injectors are giving better fuelling too. All this is pointing to needing a stage 3 map.

I haven't spoken to Carl again yet, but I will do. :happy2:

wander if they will be keen for this.  they didnt seem to helpful when Gilm easlookin for a custom map for his GT28.   Giac maybe or jabba since they have already developed maps for them

All we can do is ask REVO.

Wouldn't mind some input from Jabbalad (Luke) as to what stage they are at with theirs. :jumping:


Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 12:37:17 pm
Well, been out for a ride in the mapped K04 hybrid DSG ED30 today and OMG!!!!...........What's that love...... lunch is ready!

See you later guys :evilgrin:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 11, 2010, 01:00:34 pm
Not good enough Hurdy, we need info hahaha :scared: :scared: :scared:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on June 11, 2010, 01:01:22 pm
Well, been out for a ride in the mapped K04 hybrid DSG ED30 today and OMG!!!!...........What's that love...... lunch is ready!

See you later guys :evilgrin:

When you've finished your sandwhich John would you mind elaborating?  :wink:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 11, 2010, 01:02:43 pm
 hurdy ~ :fighting2:

c'mon  :laugh:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Poppa Dom on June 11, 2010, 04:00:09 pm
 :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

Food done, now give us an update Mr H  :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 04:26:31 pm
Sorry for the delay guys.

Well, I've been out for a drive in Statllers ED30 DSG and the results are startling. He has now had A GIAC BT map put on the car specifically matched to the K24 compressor wheel. As some of you may already know GIAC specify the VF intake for their high power maps. For the hybrid map Steve jr is running RS4 injectors and a modified in-tank pump. These haven't been deemed absolutely necessary, but Steve jr is very happy with the results they give. GIAC used Steve's logs to tailor their map and the result is a VERY smooth map that gives a great top end. Steve reckons that performancewise he would prefer this than a Garrett BT as it still gives low end spool with great feel torque and power at the top end.

When I took it out for a drive it was truly superb. Sometimes I get the feeling of a lack of urge to the redline in my own car, but this definitely has a more urgent dash to the redline to it. The bottom end feels just as good, but sooooo smooth.

Steve jr has quoted me some prices, but I don't want to turn this thread into a promotion for their wares, so I'll leave them off.

Let's just say if I hadn't decided to go a different route myself, I would have had this done in a shot! :happy2: :jumping:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: 94Luke on June 11, 2010, 04:36:08 pm
Is it the black or white ED30 thats had the work done?

Let's just say if I hadn't decided to go a different route myself, I would have had this done in a shot! :happy2: :jumping:

Do you think you'll still want to go for a fettled turbo? And what are we talking about when referring to g/s?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 04:39:22 pm
Is it the black or white ED30 thats had the work done?

Let's just say if I hadn't decided to go a different route myself, I would have had this done in a shot! :happy2: :jumping:

Do you think you'll still want to go for a fettled turbo? And what are we talking about when referring to g/s?

It is the white one Luke.

I may well still be tempted at some point, but need mine to be finished first. g/s on his last run was 304g/s, but he hasn't done more logs since the map as it only went on at 10pm last night :laugh:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 11, 2010, 05:06:06 pm
sounds promising mate,  you boys are keen working til that time on a work night but good stuff :congrats:

at last we are getting some real info on this mod instead of just dribs and drabs of hearsay
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 05:15:31 pm
Sorry for the delay guys.

Well, I've been out for a drive in Statllers ED30 DSG and the results are startling. He has now had A GIAC BT map put on the car specifically matched to the K24 compressor wheel. As some of you may already know GIAC specify the VF intake for their high power maps. For the hybrid map Steve jr is running RS4 injectors and a modified in-tank pump. These haven't been deemed absolutely necessary, but Steve jr is very happy with the results they give. GIAC used Steve's logs to tailor their map and the result is a VERY smooth map that gives a great top end. Steve reckons that performancewise he would prefer this than a Garrett BT as it still gives low end spool with great feel torque and power at the top end.

When I took it out for a drive it was truly superb. Sometimes I get the feeling of a lack of urge to the redline in my own car, but this definitely has a more urgent dash to the redline to it. The bottom end feels just as good, but sooooo smooth.

Steve jr has quoted me some prices, but I don't want to turn this thread into a promotion for their wares, so I'll leave them off.

Let's just say if I hadn't decided to go a different route myself, I would have had this done in a shot! :happy2: :jumping:

Got there just after you left John Holy Sh*t, what an animal!! Ive got a 6week stint in Canada comming which will certainly be funding the spec that steve's got on the Ed30, it was horrendously fast!!!
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 11, 2010, 05:30:29 pm
thats cos yours is slow mike :booty: :P

sounds good though.  what g/s does the GIAC extreme with VF intake make, to comare the rough increase between the two?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 05:59:59 pm
sounds promising mate,  you boys are keen working til that time on a work night but good stuff :congrats:

at last we are getting some real info on this mod instead of just dribs and drabs of hearsay

Steve jr made a direct comment about you Owen.....It went along the lines of "Wait till Owen tries it!" :signLOL:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: 94Luke on June 11, 2010, 06:00:37 pm
Is it the black or white ED30 thats had the work done?

Let's just say if I hadn't decided to go a different route myself, I would have had this done in a shot! :happy2: :jumping:

Do you think you'll still want to go for a fettled turbo? And what are we talking about when referring to g/s?

It is the white one Luke.

I may well still be tempted at some point, but need mine to be finished first. g/s on his last run was 304g/s, but he hasn't done more logs since the map as it only went on at 10pm last night :laugh:

Sorry I must have worded that wrong. I meant what does g/s stand for. Grams a second or something?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 11, 2010, 06:01:21 pm
grams per second. its the mass air flow reading
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 06:05:10 pm
thats cos yours is slow mike :booty: :P

sounds good though.  what g/s does the GIAC extreme with VF intake make, to comare the rough increase between the two?

He has only got the pre map logs for the hybrid at the moment. which are 304g/s. Previously to that he was running mid 280g/s. The difference is that he is well over 290g/s by 4krpm, where as before he was nowhere near that figure. I'm hoping he'll have over 320g/s as that equates to 400bhp :party: :party: and it does feel THAT strong. :drool:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 06:06:52 pm
thats cos yours is slow mike :booty: :P

sounds good though.  what g/s does the GIAC extreme with VF intake make, to comare the rough increase between the two?

 and it does feel THAT strong. :drool:

+1  :drool:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 11, 2010, 06:10:15 pm
thats cos yours is slow mike :booty: :P

sounds good though.  what g/s does the GIAC extreme with VF intake make, to comare the rough increase between the two?

He has only got the pre map logs for the hybrid at the moment. which are 304g/s. Previously to that he was running mid 280g/s. The difference is that he is well over 290g/s by 4krpm, where as before he was nowhere near that figure. I'm hoping he'll have over 320g/s as that equates to 400bhp :party: :party: and it does feel THAT strong. :drool:

so were talking a massive increase in the midrange then.  thats where it matters IMO.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 11, 2010, 06:11:56 pm
i have no idea what he is speaking about John :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 07:13:47 pm
i have no idea what he is speaking about John :popcornsoda:

 :signLOL:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 07:15:58 pm
thats cos yours is slow mike :booty: :P

sounds good though.  what g/s does the GIAC extreme with VF intake make, to comare the rough increase between the two?

He has only got the pre map logs for the hybrid at the moment. which are 304g/s. Previously to that he was running mid 280g/s. The difference is that he is well over 290g/s by 4krpm, where as before he was nowhere near that figure. I'm hoping he'll have over 320g/s as that equates to 400bhp :party: :party: and it does feel THAT strong. :drool:

so were talking a massive increase in the midrange then.  thats where it matters IMO.

Put it this way, I reckon Steve's next mod will be SST clutchpacks for the DSG as I don't think even a DSG remap will manage for an extended period on this mod :laugh:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 07:17:16 pm
thats cos yours is slow mike :booty: :P

sounds good though.  what g/s does the GIAC extreme with VF intake make, to comare the rough increase between the two?

He has only got the pre map logs for the hybrid at the moment. which are 304g/s. Previously to that he was running mid 280g/s. The difference is that he is well over 290g/s by 4krpm, where as before he was nowhere near that figure. I'm hoping he'll have over 320g/s as that equates to 400bhp :party: :party: and it does feel THAT strong. :drool:

so were talking a massive increase in the midrange then.  thats where it matters IMO.

Put it this way, I reckon Steve's next mod will be SST clutchpacks for the DSG as I don't think even a DSG remap will manage for an extended period on this mod :laugh:

Im a very good passenger and i still felt the need to brace myself a little  :ashamed:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 07:18:21 pm
thats cos yours is slow mike :booty: :P

sounds good though.  what g/s does the GIAC extreme with VF intake make, to comare the rough increase between the two?

He has only got the pre map logs for the hybrid at the moment. which are 304g/s. Previously to that he was running mid 280g/s. The difference is that he is well over 290g/s by 4krpm, where as before he was nowhere near that figure. I'm hoping he'll have over 320g/s as that equates to 400bhp :party: :party: and it does feel THAT strong. :drool:

so were talking a massive increase in the midrange then.  thats where it matters IMO.

Put it this way, I reckon Steve's next mod will be SST clutchpacks for the DSG as I don't think even a DSG remap will manage for an extended period on this mod :laugh:

Im a very good passenger and i still felt the need to brace myself a little  :ashamed:

You should have driven it like me, you get a better feel for the difference from the driving seat Mike :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 11, 2010, 08:03:02 pm
all this talk makes me wish i could get this done. wonder what power he will see on the RR, and also times on 1/4.  pretty sure he will shoot right up the top 20 Ko4 list with this
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 08:06:14 pm
all this talk makes me wish i could get this done. wonder what power he will see on the RR, and also times on 1/4.  pretty sure he will shoot right up the top 20 Ko4 list with this

Construction is under way for his RR at the moment, iminent Mk5golfgti RR. in the (hopefully) not too distant future  :wink:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 11, 2010, 08:09:44 pm
cool, any idea how long it will take,,, days weeks, months???
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 08:11:01 pm
cool, any idea how long it will take,,, days weeks, months???

Can rule days out me thinks.  Im sure it will come to light when its due to be finished  :smiley:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 11, 2010, 08:13:32 pm
good stuff, wish i lived down your way as they know their stuff.  will be even better when they can do there own mapping aswell :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 08:24:23 pm
cool, any idea how long it will take,,, days weeks, months???

Can rule days out me thinks.  Im sure it will come to light when its due to be finished  :smiley:

he's son to be getting married. you should have included years :grin:

Think he means how long for the RR install Sy  :wink:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 11, 2010, 08:26:56 pm
 :sad1: :sad1:

taxi for me  lol, should read previous posts  :wink:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 08:41:09 pm
Electrics are being moved this weekend, Girder support for the new extension to the workshop is going in straight after and then the RR goes in. Steve is going to be using TAT software and the guy fitting it in is the software developer. The developer is claiming his software is within 1% of a bench engine dyno :surprised: :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: djhorace on June 11, 2010, 08:42:57 pm
I am not keen on using g/s for power estimates to be honest. Example in question is Blades car running 2+ and making 250g/s approx via a forge twintake, and it has Milltek TBE, Twintercooler, RS4 valve, Autotech pump etc.

So which turbo did Steve put on that Golf exactly? The £1800 listed earlier in the thread?

Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 08:46:59 pm
The developer is claiming his software is within 1% of a bench engine dyno :surprised: :happy2:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fo56%2F2968Gsi_Mike%2Fistock_can-of-worms.jpg&hash=b9c05795e3da93f1046e2bea9b75f12d2ba150e1)
 :P :P
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 08:47:20 pm

So which turbo did Steve put on that Golf exactly? The £1800 listed earlier in the thread?


Steve has had to do a few other things to the car, so the £1800 was going to be for the exchange turbo, fitting and software. I'll PM you the revisions :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: djhorace on June 11, 2010, 09:02:13 pm
I have a spare K04 sitting, but I am thinking thats a lot of money to be honest and I have already paid out for Revo. I will be interested to see the difference in bhps ft-lbs, graphs and sprint times.

I wonder if Revo would be interested in using mine to develop a Revo file for this along with my WMI  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 11, 2010, 09:04:18 pm
I have a spare K04 sitting, but I am thinking thats a lot of money to be honest and I have already paid out for Revo.

I wonder if Revo would be interested in using mine to develop a Revo file for this along with my WMI  :evilgrin:

Turbo dynamics need a mint turbo.  Any journal wear (dont know the tolerances) render it usels for hybridising (ive convinced myself hybridize is now a real word lol)
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: djhorace on June 11, 2010, 09:06:02 pm
Thats interesting. I would have thought that being a turbo specialist, that they would have been able to deal with any wear/play. Makes their chances of doing hybrids of the K04 even less likely in that case.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 11, 2010, 10:08:47 pm
I have a spare K04 sitting, but I am thinking thats a lot of money to be honest and I have already paid out for Revo.

I wonder if Revo would be interested in using mine to develop a Revo file for this along with my WMI  :evilgrin:

Turbo dynamics need a mint turbo.  Any journal wear (dont know the tolerances) render it usels for hybridising (ive convinced myself hybridize is now a real word lol)

The tolerance is just 1mm of play in the journal and they will not do the conversion. The issue with this is that if you send off your K04 turbo and they cannot do it as there is too much play......you get your turbo back in bits....they don't build back the K04 to how it was when it was sent to them :scared: This means that there is the possibility of you having NO turbo and having to source a new or nearly new K04 just to replace the one you sent off that was perfectly serviceable in it's OEM K04 form. :surprised:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: djhorace on June 11, 2010, 10:48:14 pm
Aye, its a gamble, and even if the gamble pays off, its not going to be a cheap gamble.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 12, 2010, 09:10:17 am
yeah thats true enough, cant see a turbo being less than 6-700 for one with very low miles and a new one is £1260 + 700 for the work.

not doubt the car will fly but its a major gamble. 
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 16, 2010, 04:44:03 pm
Well, Steve's car is on the Dyno now, so I guess we will all find out if the hybrid makes power as well as gobs of torque :driver: :jumping:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 16, 2010, 04:46:48 pm

The butt dyno will be suprised if it doesn't get the big four
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on June 16, 2010, 04:50:46 pm
Well, Steve's car is on the Dyno now, so I guess we will all find out if the hybrid makes power as well as gobs of torque :driver: :jumping:


  :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:
 :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:
  :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: singh123 on June 16, 2010, 04:55:59 pm
Steve took me out in it today all i can say is  :driver:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on June 16, 2010, 04:56:30 pm
Well come on it's been 12 minutes surely we have some numbers  :party: :party: :party: :party:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Cupra R on June 16, 2010, 05:15:09 pm
Can't be still on  :P
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on June 16, 2010, 05:26:17 pm
Maybe it had that much power it took off :laugh:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on June 16, 2010, 05:28:29 pm
I know, I know...  :P :booty:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on June 16, 2010, 05:29:23 pm
Well come on spill the beans  :party: :party: :party:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on June 16, 2010, 05:32:38 pm
I'll let John do the honours. He's writing it as we speak..  :wink:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 16, 2010, 05:33:26 pm
Steve seems disapointed  :sad1:

**edit Was after 400 so I wonder whats happened
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 16, 2010, 05:34:39 pm
you there mike???
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 16, 2010, 05:35:28 pm

I left Statlers just before went to Nobles, Steve just text
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on June 16, 2010, 05:36:24 pm
Oops. Now I'm even more intrigued.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 16, 2010, 05:37:47 pm
you jinxed it carl :grin:

we need to see the graphs realy though.  figures only tell half the story.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 16, 2010, 05:41:06 pm
Me thinks that there is something amiss with the dyno!! :surprised:

The hybrid makes 13bhp LESS than mine, but is definitely faster :confused:

370bhp and 350lbft :confused: :confused:

I've driven it, Mike's ridden in it, Gojinder has driven it and we are all agreed that it is faster than mine, but yet the dyno doesn't reflect this. It is faster than Craig's car at Statllers, side by side and in gear and yet Craig's car has pulled well over 370bhp and 350lbft!

Steve said that the car was on the dyno an awful long time, but still didn't get the figures he expected.

I guess we will have to ultimately see what times it pulls at Inters to get a true side by side comparison with the competition.

Sorry if you are all feeling a little deflated right now, but I definitely don't want to post misleading figures. I'll see if I can get a copy of the dyno plot tomorrow :happy2:

As you were guys. :smiley:


Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 16, 2010, 05:42:57 pm
stick yours on the hurdy. get a comparison that way :grin:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: paulk on June 16, 2010, 05:43:36 pm
my aet hybrid made stronger and more constant power rather than more
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 16, 2010, 05:43:50 pm
stick yours on the hurdy. get a comparison that way :grin:

I've mentioned that to Steve, so I'll see if I can get up there tomorrow :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRS Carl on June 16, 2010, 05:44:48 pm
Is it not a case of his peak figure is made earlier and held for longer which could account for why it's quicker :confused:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 16, 2010, 05:44:57 pm
my aet hybrid made stronger and more constant power rather than more

That is why I want to check out the graph as it is the area under the power/torque line that counts.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: paulk on June 16, 2010, 05:52:06 pm
 :happy2:....383 is big power any ways
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 17, 2010, 04:48:39 pm
Okay guys, I have an update on the hybrid.....

The dyno run yesterday was on a baseline map supplied from GIAC with a ZERO ignition timing setting and was a map for the equivalent of 96ron fuel. Also they had put in the torque limiters, so Steve wouldn't see large figures from torque. So to put that into perspective, it would be like me setting REVO to zero on the timing setting and then running the car on 95 ron fuel :confused:

This was done deliberately by GIAC so that when Steve Jr came back to them he could confirm if the engine was running with any retardation - which it wasn't. GIAC will be downloading another map today that will give around 3 degrees of timing and for 99 ron fuelling. The estimation from GIAC is around 5-10% more power and higher torque. If all this goes well and the logs are still good, then GIAC will supply a more agressive map.

Steve didn't jump the gun, he was hoping to make the power figures straight off, but hadn't been told the ignition timing had been left out of the tune.

That still means that there is quite a bit more power to come  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on June 17, 2010, 04:53:41 pm

Bet steves fredders going to and from Nobles  :confused:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 17, 2010, 05:43:13 pm
so what  were saying is even on 95 ron the hybrid was quicker than the k04 running 99 ron :surprised:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: bacillus on June 17, 2010, 06:15:40 pm
All talk and no numbers so far...   <runs for cover>
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 18, 2010, 07:17:54 pm
so what  were saying is even on 95 ron the hybrid was quicker than the k04 running 99 ron :surprised:

Yep, that's about the size of it :laugh:

All talk and no numbers so far...   <runs for cover>

 :P

I for one can't wait for the new numbers :jumping:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: jonnyc on June 18, 2010, 07:29:35 pm
Ok just gonna throw my 2p in there.. (ignore if you like)  :wink:

Firstly.. Turbo Dynamics refusing to take 'used' turbo's due to excessive bearing wear is a total joke!! Any worth while turbo 'tuner' should be able to replace bearings.. Turbo Dynamics are doing the absolute bear minimum with the turbo..

Owen Developments have developed their own motorsport spec journal bearing for the turbo, and can offer HTA wheels.. Even then, the K04 'hybrid' is never going to be a worth while investment.. Hence why I didn't bother over 18 months ago when it was discussed..

Sorry, but £1800 for installing a cast wheel and porting the intake?? Yeah.. Not a bad deal at all..  :grin:

All will come clear after Inters.. When everone is making excuses on the Monday as to why they were slower than expected..  :indifferent:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 18, 2010, 07:35:59 pm
not sure about that jonny, it is only 650 to have the work done mate + the cost of a turbo... Totally agree about what you are saying about the overhauling of a used turbo though.

I think it will defo see 400bhp IMHO.
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: MAT ED30 on June 18, 2010, 07:37:59 pm
it might see 400bhp  :laugh: but i can tell you this stick it on jkm rollers and i dont think it will be over 390bhp
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: owen lcr on June 18, 2010, 07:40:39 pm
are they wrong like???
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: MAT ED30 on June 18, 2010, 07:55:26 pm
its a dyno lottery with most cars and i think to get true results the same car needs running on a few rollers to get a few results as most tuners can play with results if they need to
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 18, 2010, 08:09:17 pm
Jonny, you had the TT-RS mapped now haven't you?

*sorry I know it is off topic :ashamed:*
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: jonnyc on June 18, 2010, 08:10:25 pm
not sure about that jonny, it is only 650 to have the work done mate + the cost of a turbo... Totally agree about what you are saying about the overhauling of a used turbo though.

I think it will defo see 400bhp IMHO.

Ahh sorry mate.. I thought the £1800 was the modification costs..  :laugh:

Well, guess we will see the real life results soon enough.. Peak dyno figures are one thing, actual performance is another.. ;)

Jonny, you had the TT-RS mapped now haven't you?

*sorry I know it is off topic :ashamed:*

Yesssssss..  :wink: :wink:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: GTIjames on June 18, 2010, 08:11:09 pm
not convinced myself, jabba's car ran considerably slower 1/4m with hybrid and now their mapping appears to have gone all quiet, this mix match map from giac doesn't really install me with much confidence either

cost seems alot for an extra 20-30bhp - and last time i checked owen developments did not even offer a conversion it was new turbo or nothing and they quoted me c£1800

having to change software for a third time, plus rs4 injectors puts it not far off bsh woa money, which is certainly alot more tempting although even that has proved slower than the k04 up the strip albiet a slippy one

so i will be staying put  :happy2:


Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 18, 2010, 08:16:26 pm
^^^^that is why my money has gone down a considerably faster route :evilgrin:

I still think that the Hybrid is a worthwhile mod to get the car to the limits of the pistons and rods. Remember, for anything over 400bhp you are starting to need to look at internals and that is where the bigger costs start to mount up over the cost of a bolt-on big turbo. :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: micky 32 on June 18, 2010, 08:19:37 pm
it might see 400bhp  :laugh: but i can tell you this stick it on jkm rollers and i dont think it will be over 390bhp

A thread with at last a bit of realistic sense in it  :congrats: :P
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: GTIjames on June 18, 2010, 08:23:26 pm
good stuff john  :evilgrin:

look forward to hearing your plans  :popcornsoda:

what you got planned for the dsg box? as i hear it does not last long when running over 400bhp
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: paulk on June 18, 2010, 08:24:19 pm
big power isnt the only way to make the car faster ....Hybrid is ok but id only do it if my turbo was smokey , if i wanted big power id look into other kits
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 18, 2010, 08:32:46 pm

what you got planned for the dsg box? as i hear it does not last long when running over 400bhp

SSP clutchpack :innocent:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on June 19, 2010, 12:21:48 pm
I'm not being funny, but how many DSG failures has there been as a result of running big power. Because I for one haven't read of one yet  :confused:. (That's not to say that there hasn't been any of course)
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 22, 2010, 02:56:20 pm
Steve Jr's car is running very well on a regular pump file at the moment and Craig has just got his hybrid in the car too. Keep an eye out for them going up the Strip at Inters. :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 22, 2010, 04:56:53 pm
hows the progress coming off with this mate :happy2:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 22, 2010, 05:38:40 pm
hows the progress coming off with this mate :happy2:

It is looking very good. I'm hoping for some good times being put down at Inters :happy2:

Hopefully not as fast as me though :signLOL:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: singh123 on June 22, 2010, 05:48:38 pm
hows the progress coming off with this mate :happy2:

It is looking very good. I'm hoping for some good times being put down at Inters :happy2:

Hopefully not as fast as me though :signLOL:

 :signLOL:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Janner_Sy on June 22, 2010, 05:49:24 pm

It is looking very good. I'm hoping for some good times being put down at Inters :happy2:

Hopefully not as fast as me though :signLOL:

any chance of dyno results before then?

cant see it beating yours with your plans mate.  im expecting sub 8 seconds :grin: :grin:  dont go letting me down, ive placed bets on a terminal of 135mph :laugh:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.makezine.com%2FCar_With_Twin_Jet_Engines_On_eBay_7.JPG.jpg&hash=27266f2ce5675f9044c42429e397332564abc3a0)
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: Hurdy on June 22, 2010, 06:18:13 pm

It is looking very good. I'm hoping for some good times being put down at Inters :happy2:

Hopefully not as fast as me though :signLOL:

any chance of dyno results before then?

cant see it beating yours with your plans mate.  im expecting sub 8 seconds :grin: :grin:  dont go letting me down, ive placed bets on a terminal of 135mph :laugh:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.makezine.com%2FCar_With_Twin_Jet_Engines_On_eBay_7.JPG.jpg&hash=27266f2ce5675f9044c42429e397332564abc3a0)


120+ terminals easily is what I've been quoted :evilgrin:

I doubt that I'd be running 11's though, but I never say never :signLOL:
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: ktlstar on March 19, 2012, 10:30:18 am
Have we found out if  Revo support the k04 hybrid ?
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: bacillus on March 19, 2012, 10:56:18 am
No official support atm...
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on March 19, 2012, 11:09:58 am
oh really.....
Title: Re: ED30 - K04 hybrid!
Post by: vRSAlex on March 19, 2012, 12:29:08 pm
oh really.....
:signLOL:

Give it a week and ask the question again.