MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: RedRobin on June 29, 2010, 12:48:22 pm
-
.
WHAT IS IT?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Ftheory_oil.gif&hash=15e549482027381073f3a90e9a010893ccb7d609)
Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) is a system developed to remove potentially harmful vapours from the engine and to prevent those vapours from being expelled into the atmosphere. The PCV system does this by using manifold vacuum to draw vapours from the crankcase into the intake manifold. Vapour is then carried with the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chambers where it is burned. The flow or circulation within the system is controlled by the PCV Valve. The PCV Valve is effective as both a crankcase ventilation system and as a pollution control device.
WHY HAVE ONE?
Excess crankcase pressure is vented from the crankcase through the PCV system, where it is drawn into the intake manifold and returned by the engine. This recirculated air contains aerated oil from the crankcase which is burned by the engine. Some (not all, I'm told) turbocharged engines, especially when performance modified, can draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through VAG's oem PCV system. An aftermarket oil catch tank system removes and collects the aerated oil so that it can be drained and externally recycled. The resulting sludge looks like a rich banana-coffee milkshake but it sure as hell doesn't smell like one!
Here is a well debated discussion in this linked thread about why you should have one or not:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7040.0.html
John (john_o) says: "The key thing to remember is that the TFSI engine doesn't have a catch can (but everything else is relevant), and oil fumes / water vapour and related gumph are ported back into the engine to try and achieve good emissions. On most cars this is not a problem as fuel washes constantly keeping everything clean. The bad news is that TFSI is direct fuel injection (injectors spray directly into the combustion chamber), so the only thing passing the intake valves is air (and the oil and water vapour gunk), this is really bad news."
THE OEM PCV:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Foem_PCV.jpg&hash=e1b41e05d72cfc8732cd91d7d8590c4ed588ce85)
The 2.0T FSI engine comes with a closed PCV valve which obviously functions but as with most oem factory components it is designed and manufactured to restrictive rules and criteria and which can be improved by replacing with aftermarket components. PCV replacement - practiced by most performance engine tuners - is whereby the stock PCV system is substituted with an oil catch can and sometimes a breather filter venting crankcase gases to atmosphere instead of recirculating via the intake. The open types which ventilate to atmosphere almost certainly will not pass a MOT. It seems that VW have been obliged to sacrifice a degree of long term engine maintenance (intake valves) for the sake of more stringent emission controls.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FCokedIntakeValve.jpg&hash=986e25e9ad3223d90654bf09790cd4068f58ad0a)
^ Intake valve from stripped 2.0T FSI engine with oem PCV after xx,000 miles.
THE FORGE CATCH TANK SYSTEM:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FForge_imprint.jpg&hash=142765785471c2ec0b41e8aa37e3291f8047ae3d)
Forge Motorsport, in my experience, is a typical small British company which strives for high quality in all its products. It's ethos is to design and manufacture the best without compromising quality. Okay, it's not aircraft industry standard but cars don't usually need to fly, and aircraft industry quality would be phenominally expensive. You can judge Forge's quality for yourself, even from the photographs. Additionally, simply supplying the more durable stainless steel jubilee clips instead of cheaper metal ones is a good example of Forge's way of thinking.
Designed as a closed PCV system Forge's offering of course includes the same functional components as most other manufacturers' kits. However, Forge's kit importantly uses hoses which are fluoro lined for chemical resistance and also features an invaluable sight-glass window to visually check when the tank needs emptying. The first kits used an externally mounted clear plastic tube for checking tank levels and this method is used by most other catch tank manufacturers, but Forge thought this through a bit further and decided that using glass would be much more resistant to any possibly abrasive cleaning agents, including petrol, used to clean out the tank between fillings.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Fpcv_group.jpg&hash=243fffc6d54486d9bc50156d81559824e2122628)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Fhose.jpg&hash=10a3447e267c58a9d90861ffe725b7c9c9d0f721)
^ Fluoro lined hose connections.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Fscrewtop.jpg&hash=ba44c5b1dfff44813be1843a87b0d89284d59094)
^ A replacement screenwash filler assembly (with stainless jubilee clips) is included in the kit.
ALTERNATIVES:
There are quite a few out there but mostly universal rather than specifically for the 2.0T FSI engine, and mostly from either America or the Far East. Some of them are works of art in anodised technicolour and I have even seen one system which has a hand-grenade shaped tank! There are also the inevitable universal systems which are cheap but not confidence inspiring.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FCatchCan_DD.jpg&hash=5e288b4e0857ccd44f84eff3fd280321fa038668)
SOURCE:
Direct from Forge Motorsport or their approved stockists. RRP £331.29 incl 17.5% vat for this latest version and JKM offer a 10% discount on all Forge Motorsport products for forum members.
Visit their website or contact JKM for an up-to-date price : - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsimisc.htm
INSTALLATION:
Straightforward and with instructions online from Forge with a downloadable pdf. I would point out that the current instructions are only for the American market without a charcoal cannister and so include no reference whatsoever to the screenwash assembly. The professional experienced mechanic who installed my Forge kit was not impressed by this and neither was I, but Forge are addressing my criticism across their products as appropriate.
I recommend fitting Forge's screenwash filler before the catch tank on the shared bolt. This will facilitate the tank's removal later for emptying and cleaning.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FSharedBolt.jpg&hash=d06e392fab71d098ced8ecaa8300cf1ff8d0b399)
CHARCOAL CANNISTER - Fitting Tips:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FBefore_After.png&hash=71580536b99f1fd32e102ededaf0d494415d502e)
On the Mk5 GTI the two hose connections on the top of the oem charcoal cannister interfere with the Forge Catch Tank. This can be resolved by undoing the oem spring clip on the rubber hose and twisting the hose out of the way. A special tool is needed for the VAG oem spring clips. While doing so it's also sensible to make sure it routes as low as possible so that the Forge pair of hoses can be positioned over the top - This will ensure much easier access when emptying the Forge tank later. However, as I have an Evoms engine cover, routing the Forge hoses below the charcoal cannister hose makes sure they don't risk getting cut by the metal edge of the Evoms cover. It's easy to access and loosen Forge's stainless jubilee clips anyway.
The second charcoal cannister hose is rigid plastic with a heat welded connection but the round cap can be carefully removed and repositioned at an angle so the rigid pipe avoids physical contact with the Forge catch tank.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FCatchTank2.jpg&hash=80f85bf9515ff507501292fb52c3f7b0578ca003)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FSightWindow.jpg&hash=97ca806f10b16ec9d409038bcb74dd038f0eca0d)
MAINTENANCE:
Simple and easy to periodically check the catch tank's contents level and helped by the MAX line on the window frame. Emptying and cleaning the tank is straight forward and if you have followed my installation tips by fitting the Forge fluoro lines above the charcoal cannister hoses, there's enough flexibility to clear the engine bay. And you can easily loosen the jubilee clips as well if you want to completely remove the tank. Best to wash out with petrol.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FEmptyMech.jpg&hash=9cca03d1835a08fb15279b6afc79ca0cecb37245)
For further cleaning the sight window can be opened with a small allen key and the 3mm thick polished edge glass taken out for wiping - This shows a lot of consideration.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FWindowGlass.jpg&hash=df4823bc4104e6f393523494f5cca15cdf13bd01)
PLUS POINTS:
- Very high standard of design and engineering, giving great confidence.
- Durable sight-glass built into the tank.
- High capacity tank which results in less frequent maintenance.
- Complete replacement screenwash filler assembly included in the kit. High quality and eye-candy.
MINUS POINTS:
- Relatively expensive. A Forge Twintake, high-flow tubular air intake, costs only about £50 more.
- No Allen key supplied to open and close the tank.
- UK version (charcoal cannister) installation instructions not available yet, but are expected.
SUMMARY:
A catch tank system which collects an oily and smelly sludge which needs disposing of on a regular basis is hardly something to get excited about and especially when it costs over £300. But I have to say that both the high standard of design and engineering and the confidence the Forge system gives, made me feel surprisingly elated. This was simply not the case with the BSH system which my Forge replaced. The BSH was only about half the price and functioned quite well, but is not in the same league. The Forge catch tank system is actually not very expensive when compared with the prices of some of the other American systems but I think the UK market is generally less inclined to spend much money on such modifications.
In the practical real-world of needing to regularly empty a catch tank, having a durable sight-glass is an invaluable feature. Some people may think that the Forge system is over-engineered but I'd far rather that than being under-engineered.
The replacement screenwash filler assembly is a very welcome bonus. Buy an anodised black aluminium coolant bottle cap from Jcaps and the oem bright blue plastic eyesores are all gone and the result is bay-candy.
ADDENDA:
In colder climates there have been reports of freezing catch tanks but I know of none which are Forge. Certainly my BSH tank collected a lot of water and that has the potential to freeze. So far, my Forge's residues are far more oily: sludge-and-oil as opposed to sludge-and-water. Regularly emptying the tank in very cold weather will obviously help and this is another example of the advantage of a sight-glass. We'll see how the Forge performs next winter.
I originally wrote this in Summer 2010. The Winter of 2011 was a particularly cold and harsh one and there were no problems with mine.
-
Good write up.
Do you happen to know the external dimensions of the Forge catch can?
-
Very good kit such a shame its VERY expensive for what it is...
-
I wonder why Forge didn't go for a valve for drainage at the bottom of the can like BSH...
-
Do you happen to know the external dimensions of the Forge catch can?
....The cylinder is 4"/100mm diameter x 4"/100mm height. I have a spare prototype which I have just measured.
I don't know the exact fluid capacity when up to the max marker but having just emptied my first catch tank (prototype), it's a lot bigger and will need emptying far less often. The gunk is far more oily than the watery version which my BSH collected but that may be time of year influencing temperatures.
-
Very good kit such a shame its VERY expensive for what it is...
....It costs more when compared with the BSH alternative but Forge's system is so much better imo on many levels. It's the small details like stainless steel clips (much easier to undo long term than either oem painted steel or ordinary steel clips) and the use of fluoro hoses (much more expensive). The BSH is of course functional but its quality is far below Forge's product.
It's 'expensive' for what it does but only if compared to some others, and yet there are some even more expensive alternatives out there across the pond. At least there is a choice in the market for people.
-
I wonder why Forge didn't go for a valve for drainage at the bottom of the can like BSH...
....The stainless steel allen key bolt is nice and long and also allows a more direct dump with less dribbling than BSH's version.
-
If I was buying a catch can kit now then the Forge would be my preference :happy2:
Great review Robin, thanks :smiley:
-
Minus point:
When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.
-
Minus point:
When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.
is that the same on all catch cans or just the forge product!!
-
The sight-glass looks to be almost fully obstructed by the Screen-wash filler neck. During our previous conversations, I thought Forge were going to re locate it?
Also a sight-glass will have a tendency to cloud up, and become discoloured, hence a dipstick is the preferred measuring device in oil wetted systems.
Much prefer the black can over the straight aluminium variant.
Good write-up RR
-
Minus point:
When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.
is that the same on all catch cans or just the forge product!!
This applies to all catch can systems not only Forge. It looks like a well produced product, but as i live where the temp. is low a great part of the year, it just don't work for me. I use a stage 1 pcv fix and change the oil more often instead :smiley:
-
The sight-glass looks to be almost fully obstructed by the Screen-wash filler neck. During our previous conversations, I thought Forge were going to re locate it?
Also a sight-glass will have a tendency to cloud up, and become discoloured, hence a dipstick is the preferred measuring device in oil wetted systems.
Much prefer the black can over the straight aluminium variant.
Good write-up RR
....Cheers, Dave :happy2:
Forge aren't offering a polished alu version anymore - It becomes even more expensive to produce. But if you were a serious show 'n shiner I expect they'd happily produce one for you.
The sight-glass has been repositioned - It was on the opposite side where their original external plastic sight pipe was. It isn't obscured by the screenwash filler but it does sit quite low but not so low to be a problem.
I know that a plastic 'sight-window' will cloud up and discolour but this is real glass. No such problem with my previous sight-glass but it was only on for a few months. Will glass cloud up and/or discolour? Also, two small allen screws allow access to remove the glass separately for cleaning - A nice touch methinks.
Does adding a dipstick method potentially provide a weaker vacuum seal?
-
Minus point:
When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.
....I'll possibly add that info to my Review. :drinking: But:
I'm assuming that you mean that the system has to be dismantled rather than the baffles etc within the catch tank itself. If there is already some oily residue inside the tank how does that freeze so easily unless the cold is much more extreme?
-
The sight-glass looks to be almost fully obstructed by the Screen-wash filler neck. During our previous conversations, I thought Forge were going to re locate it?
Also a sight-glass will have a tendency to cloud up, and become discoloured, hence a dipstick is the preferred measuring device in oil wetted systems.
....Dave, I've now added two more pics and some text in my review re the points you raised - Thanks for that :drinking:
-
hmmm great write up robin... i think i will be purchasing 1 of these soon :signLOL:
any idea were to get the header tank cap from ??
-
^^^^
Header globe tank cap from Jcaps across the pond in the U S of A. Black anodised alu and not cheap but nice quality. The nasty looking blue plastic oem cap is a real eye-sore imo.
http://jcapsonline.com/
Check it all out at our next Hampshire meet :drinking:
-
RR, the dipstick would have a conical seat, and be tightened into place, it would require unscrewing to check levels. The Sight-glass method is ok, but perhaps over-complicating the system?
I like Forge products, they are well made and functional. I think given the size of the can, height could be a problem with a dip-stick.
Good piece of kit, not 100% but very very good. Good shot of the sight-glass and seal assembly.
-
^^^^
Yep, I agree - Forge are sometimes limited by their manufacturing machines and methods and this sometimes results in their products appearing 'over-engineered'. But personally I prefer overdone to underdone (except when referring to meat and veg). I'm also learning that Forge's products are popular with the show 'n shine folks.
And yes, definitely not enough height below the bonnet for a dipstick.
Also, I agree still not absolutely perfect on the sight-glass visibility but nonetheless acceptably functional in practice and very difficult, if not impossible, how to position it at higher level without seriously compromising the functionality of the tank itself.
-
:notworthy: thanks Robin , another top review :drinking:
(although Im not sure thats my quote , but Ill take the credit :signLOL:)
-
Good review RR. I lespec like the small graphic flow chart type thing that you incorporate, are they designed by you?
Forge make some good products but not sure if the better quality warrants the high price tag compared to the BSH.
How much do our American cousins pay for this?
-
^^^^
No, the flow chart not designed by me although I am capable.
Our American 'cousins' pay around US$415 for the Forge Catch Tank system. Other systems I've seen in the U S of A such as Draft, also cost over US$400 but don't have hoses which are fluoro and the tank is smaller. BSH have been quite clever in producing a cheapo, but, as I say, it depends what you want and I don't mind paying for quality and eye-candy.
BSH's use of non-fluoro hoses, plastic elbow joints, ordinary jubilee clips, no level check, etc, are all contributing to their much lower price.
-
Minus point:
When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.
....Hi Jake,
I've added an Addenda to my review which flags the subject of potential freezing and can add/revise it accordingly in the future when more is known.
-
Minus point:
When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.
....Hi Jake,
I've added an Addenda to my review which flags the subject of potential freezing and can add/revise it accordingly in the future when more is known.
i haven't thought of why it does yet, but i know 2 out of 2 that had to dismantle theirs here in Denmark last winter due to freezing. I remember it also being mentioned several times on the american forum. :drinking:
-
^^^^
No, the flow chart not designed by me although I am capable.
Our American 'cousins' pay around US$415 for the Forge Catch Tank system. Other systems I've seen in the U S of A such as Draft, also cost over US$400 but don't have hoses which are fluoro and the tank is smaller. BSH have been quite clever in producing a cheapo, but, as I say, it depends what you want and I don't mind paying for quality and eye-candy.
BSH's use of non-fluoro hoses, plastic elbow joints, ordinary jubilee clips, no level check, etc, are all contributing to their much lower price.
Non Fluro Hoses (yes - but then VW use N/F hoses all over the breather system on the GTI - seem to last fairly well)
Ordinary Jubilee Clips - sorted by £8 worth of OEM clips.
Smaller tank - BSH Larger variant available from BSH/Dubtek (as per the recent huge GB) for the same cost.
No level check - BSH has easy level check available - Dipstick level check on larger variants - simples.
One huge plus is the way the BSH is emptied in situ.......... Very handy.
I do agree with the use of plastic elbows etc, but it is a few pound to buy brass versions from a plumbers. Forge outlets on the breather plate look to have very small diameter.
To bring the BSH 'perceived lower standard' up to the perceived 'standard' of the forge is going to cost £20? then you stick the rest (circa £200) towards some of Shell's finest. the forge variant does look very well made, but not £200+ better, value for money I think BSH wins hands down.
I know where my money would be spent, and as ever this is just my opinion.
:happy2:
-
Non Fluro Hoses (yes - but then VW use N/F hoses all over the breather system on the GTI - seem to last fairly well)
Ordinary Jubilee Clips - sorted by £8 worth of OEM clips.
Smaller tank - BSH Larger variant available from BSH/Dubtek (as per the recent huge GB) for the same cost.
No level check - BSH has easy level check available - Dipstick level check on larger variants - simples.
One huge plus is the way the BSH is emptied in situ.......... Very handy.
I do agree with the use of plastic elbows etc, but it is a few pound to buy brass versions from a plumbers. Forge outlets on the breather plate look to have very small diameter.
To bring the BSH 'perceived lower standard' up to the perceived 'standard' of the forge is going to cost £20? then you stick the rest (circa £200) towards some of Shell's finest. the forge variant does look very well made, but not £200+ better, value for money I think BSH wins hands down.
I know where my money would be spent, and as ever this is just my opinion.
:happy2:
.... :happy2: At the risk of getting into a lot of detail [T_T style!], I agree that the BSH is very good value for money but at not quite the extent of cost differential of the £200+ you state.
Non Fluoro Hoses - OEM isn't always best and can often be improved for longevity.
OEM clips are painted steel and quickly show signs of corrosion and you need to buy a special tool to undo them safely without potential injury! VAG are now changing their OEM clips AFAIK.
BSH's equivalent size tank system costs £190 in the US to buy singly (not via a huge group buy). Add UK tax and shipping?
BSH level check is good but slightly less convenient than Forge's sight-glass [I'm getting pedantic here!].
Forge tank can be emptied in situ too - The fluoro hoses are very flexible. However, I would recommend removing and cleaning any catch tank every time you empty it to get rid of all the gunk and keep the functionality tip top.
But don't get me wrong, the BSH offers an adequate cheaper alternative. I had a BSH system, sold it and 'lost' money, and I was happy to pay much more for what I personally much prefer. More than one professional mechanic has, totally unprompted, stated what a difference in quality and fitment. Forge's washscreen filler is a bonus but has to be priced for.
As I said before, it's good for the consumer that we have a range of alternatives :happy2: :drinking:
-
WHY HAVE ONE?
Excess crankcase pressure is vented from the crankcase through the PCV system, where it is drawn into the intake manifold and returned by the engine. This recirculated air contains aerated oil from the crankcase which is burned by the engine.
That is incorrect. A correctly functioning PCV system will separate out the oil (including oil 'mist') - returning the oil to the sump, and just whiffy air to be burnt.
Some (not all, I'm told) turbocharged engines, especially when performance modified, can draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through VAG's oem PCV system.
Again, considerably over-egging the pudding. It certainly could not be described as significant!
THE OEM PCV:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Foem_PCV.jpg&hash=e1b41e05d72cfc8732cd91d7d8590c4ed588ce85)
The 2.0T FSI engine comes with a closed PCV valve which obviously functions but as with most oem factory components it is designed and manufactured to restrictive rules and criteria and which can be improved by replacing with aftermarket components.
As do ALL engines from ALL manufacturers. And on standard engines, the OEM system is perfectly fine (providing you use decent fuel and high quality oils).
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FCokedIntakeValve.jpg&hash=986e25e9ad3223d90654bf09790cd4068f58ad0a)
^ Intake valve from stripped 2.0T FSI engine with oem PCV after xx,000 miles.
That pic needs considerably more explanation. What fuel was used? What oil was used? Was the engine modified? How does that compare to an old skool manifold injected valve? You will be well shocked by the answer to the latter!
-
^^^^
@ Sean aka T_T:
I think it's extremely good that you add what is either your opinion or your expert knowledge to a thread such as this. However, I'll leave it to others if they want to debate or discuss the details further on this particular subject.
:drinking:
-
^^^^
@ Sean aka T_T:
I think it's extremely good that you add what is either your opinion or your expert knowledge to a thread such as this. However, I'll leave it to others if they want to debate or discuss the details further on this particular subject.
:drinking:
That's fair enough - but in your original post, there are some fundament technical errors - which ought to be highlighted.
-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Fpcv_group.jpg&hash=243fffc6d54486d9bc50156d81559824e2122628)
Why is there only 2 rubber blanks provided when there are 3 nipples?
-
^^^^
@ Sean aka T_T:
I think it's extremely good that you add what is either your opinion or your expert knowledge to a thread such as this. However, I'll leave it to others if they want to debate or discuss the details further on this particular subject.
:drinking:
That's fair enough - but in your original post, there are some fundament technical errors - which ought to be highlighted.
....No problem :smiley:. Some of what I have posted is info I have gathered and may indeed either have errors or may not be in agreement with you.
-
Why is there only 2 rubber blanks provided when there are 3 nipples?
....I'm using 2 of the 3 nipples, so 3 blanks aren't needed:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FManCap1.jpg&hash=471df160970ca88832ced31a9226ab0b18857b65)
-
....I'm using 2 of the 3 nipples, so 3 blanks aren't needed:
But I wont be using any. I just got my catch can yesterday and i only got 2 blanks...
-
....I'm using 2 of the 3 nipples, so 3 blanks aren't needed:
But I wont be using any. I just got my catch can yesterday and i only got 2 blanks...
....Give Forge a call: 01452 380999 (John Withers) and they'll post you what you need.
-
Hi Guys,
Just been looking at this, can anyone tell me how this system releaves pressure without it venting to atmosphere but also losing the return to the inlet manifold? Bit confused as to were it goes obviously you constantly have blow by even more so as revs increase so does this not just pressurise the crank case/rocker cover?
Sorry if im just having a moment :signLOL:
Regards,
James.
-
.
Checked my fluid levels as my car has been in her batcave for a week and noticed the catch tank was up to max level:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2F10ozMax.jpg&hash=8435a548bec2765fecb3924c67e42acffa52ae57)
So I duly emptied the tank - Easy, even for me. Total measured 10 fl.oz / 0.6 pint of gunky fluid:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2F10oz_Dec2010.jpg&hash=58c7777d0848eeb275fec72b94da9eb86a0e42e3)
^ I best warn my daughter it's not a gravy mix or special coffee.
In the cold weather, although my batcave didn't drop below 2C, the amount of gunk suddenly increased.
-
Great review Robin. I have been debating as to whether or not to buy a catch tank system for some time and if so, which one would i go for? Your review has finally convinced me to go for the Forge item. I have seen the BSH tanks and fittings up close and on a friends car but quite frankly i'm of the opinion that in this case it may be worth paying that wee bit extra for a much more highly engineered and much superior product. Thanks. :drinking:
-
Hi Guys,
Just been looking at this, can anyone tell me how this system releaves pressure without it venting to atmosphere but also losing the return to the inlet manifold? Bit confused as to were it goes obviously you constantly have blow by even more so as revs increase so does this not just pressurise the crank case/rocker cover?
Sorry if im just having a moment :signLOL:
Regards,
James.
....Sorry not to try to answer this earlier, James. Does this help explain?:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2Ftheory_oil.gif&hash=15e549482027381073f3a90e9a010893ccb7d609)
-
Hi Robin, Thanks for your reply.
Maybe ive just got this twisted but from what i can see the diagram show's how a recirculating system with a catch can works for a naturally aspirated car were the engine breathes into the airbox, in this system the gasses from the head/block still get passed into the inlet to be expelled minus any oil/carbon thanks to the catch can. Obviously this is not how the system works on our golfs due to the boost pressure in the inlet manifold, hence the reason for the 'PCV' system in the first place. Obviously the pressure inside the Block and head are higher than atmospheric due to blow-by, at the moment when this pressure is greater than in the inet manifold the 'PCV' alows the pressure to bleed of into the engine along with any oil/carbon.
By removing the 'PCV' and fitting a closed system such as the forge catch can the block breathes to the head and both breather lines from the head go to the catch can, The can does not vent to atmosphere so there is no way for the pressure to be releaved?
Hope this makes sense, it does in my head. :signLOL:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgg204%2FHALL1E123%2FUntitled-1copy.jpg&hash=3c7262a19629914ee4ea4b4dbe37c9fa8ed5a66d)
-
^^^^
Sorry I'm not so up to speed with how it works (except I know that it does and that it's been thoroughly tested by Forge on the turbo'd 2.0T FSI engine), but does this hose to the manifold cap help your question?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FManCap1.jpg&hash=471df160970ca88832ced31a9226ab0b18857b65)
Another pic which might inform:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FCatchTank%2FCatchTank2.jpg&hash=80f85bf9515ff507501292fb52c3f7b0578ca003)
-
No problem robin, thanks anyway. The two lines from the blank on the inlet manifold arnt to do with the breather system there take off's for boost pressure, Guessing you've got a boost gauge and an aftermarket recirc valve.
-
No problem robin, thanks anyway. The two lines from the blank on the inlet manifold arnt to do with the breather system there take off's for boost pressure, Guessing you've got a boost gauge and an aftermarket recirc valve.
....Indeed I do have both a boost gauge and a Forge recirc valve.
-
.
Coming up to 92,000 miles and my catch tank has filled up with another 10oz of gunk. I'm expecting it to lessen as the weather gets warmer but it's very very easy remove the tank and empty. I empty it into a plastic 2pint milk bottle but can anyone advise me please where best to dispose of that - The river 100yds away wouldn't be good for wildlife.
-
local refuse disposal centre? normally have a tank there for used oil and stuff (for those who do DIY oil changes etc)
-
Fitted mine today to replace my BSH System. Will see how this compares!
-
Fitted mine today to replace my BSH System. Will see how this compares!
....As I also replaced a BSH with the Forge, I'll be very interested to hear your views in due course :happy2:
-
First views are that it is a much more asthetically pleasing unit. The inclusion of the window for seeing how full the unit is makes it more practical than the BSH unit as well. :happy2:
-
First views are that it is a much more asthetically pleasing unit. The inclusion of the window for seeing how full the unit is makes it more practical than the BSH unit as well. :happy2:
....Yep, agreed, far more aesthetically pleasing without resorting to the tank being styled to look like a hand-grenade etc as many of the American ones do. I think that BSH use a dip-stick method but my version didn't. The Forge's window can occasionally be tricky to see in some lights rather than just at a glance - I have resorted to trying to jump my car up and down to see movement because the risen liquid is dark brown, but my suspension is very hard even if I sit on a wing!
When at the top level mark the tank empties about 10oz of fluid each time. The Forge undoubtedly costs significant money but I also really like the bonus of the included screenwash filler. Without going to the lengths of being a show car, engine-bay eye-candy is quality.
-
This is definately another modification to add to my list...
When I was on the SCN forum I was thinking hmmm maybe I will stop modifying for a while, I registered here the other day and now I have a list of about 5 things I will be doing at the end of April, and some of those 5 things lead on to more things...
-
.
Coming up to 92,000 miles and my catch tank has filled up with another 10oz of gunk. I'm expecting it to lessen as the weather gets warmer but it's very very easy remove the tank and empty.
....The collected fluid had only just reached the bottom level of the sight window but I decided to empty my tank today. At 93,700 miles it had collected 5oz of gunk since its previous emptying in February.
So it collected 10oz in the colder weather between December and February (~2 months) and only 5oz between February and June (~4 months / 1,700 miles).
-
They aren't what they make out are they,1.8t owners are buying them but hardly any oil.
-
You always get more in the can during the colder months.
-
They aren't what they make out are they,1.8t owners are buying them but hardly any oil.
....You're missing my point (confirmed as bacillus has posted above): Less gunk is collected than in colder weather conditions.
10oz in ~2 months is a significant/substantial amount of fluid.
-
They aren't what they make out are they,1.8t owners are buying them but hardly any oil.
....You're missing my point (confirmed as bacillus has posted above): Less gunk is collected in colder weather conditions.
10oz in ~2 months is a significant/substantial amount of fluid.
Does it make a noticeable difference fitting one ?
-
Does it make a noticeable difference fitting one ?
....Not noticeable in the way it would be if remapping the ECU or fitting Anti Roll Bars. You'd have to strip the engine to inspect the valves - See first post in this thread. It gives peace of mind and comes under preventative maintenance.
-
They aren't what they make out are they,1.8t owners are buying them but hardly any oil.
....You're missing my point (confirmed as bacillus has posted above): Less gunk is collected in colder weather conditions.
10oz in ~2 months is a significant/substantial amount of fluid.
More moisture/gunk is collected in colder months.
-
They aren't what they make out are they,1.8t owners are buying them but hardly any oil.
....You're missing my point (confirmed as bacillus has posted above): Less gunk is collected in colder weather conditions.
10oz in ~2 months is a significant/substantial amount of fluid.
More moisture/gunk is collected in colder months.
....Ooops! Typo, I missed out an important word - Error now corrected - Thanks :happy2:
-
So its a preventative mod
-
So its a preventative mod
Yup...
-
.
At my 100,000 mile service in April 2012 the valve stems etc on my 2.T FSI were inspected and found to be surprisingly clean. It is thought to be a result of running a catch tank. The gunk I have removed is a bit scary!
It takes me about 20 minutes max to disassemble, empty, and re install. I usually remove the tank from the hoses as well.
-
.
At my 100,000 mile service in April 2012 the valve stems etc on my 2.T FSI were inspected and found to be surprisingly clean. It is thought to be a result of running a catch tank. The gunk I have removed is a bit scary!
It takes me about 20 minutes max to disassemble, empty, and re install. I usually remove the tank from the hoses as well.
What mileage were you on when you installed it Robin?
Seems to have proven to be a worthwhile mod :smiley:
Graeme
-
What mileage were you on when you installed it Robin?
Seems to have proven to be a worthwhile mod :smiley:
Graeme
....Aprox 75,000. So it's been on for about 25,000 miles. That's only 25% of my car's life so far and ideally it would have been better to add a catch tank system a lot sooner. But better late than never.
There's no denying that it's an expensive mod - Especially the Forge because of also the screenwash components being included - But if you plan to keep a modified car it's investing in its future. That's the way I see it.