MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: PDT on September 05, 2010, 09:56:50 pm
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Our stage 1 maps always make similar power to most others, with average peak figures of 240(ish) bhp and 270-280 ft/lb. This is usually enough for most and it's not always possible to spend time developing maps on customers cars (effectively creating a custom map)
A customer came in for a dyno run on a 2006 gti with minor mods, original air box with replacement filter element and a milltek catback system. Good results were achieved with it making 220ft/lb and 205bhp. We discussed a Revo remap but the customer decided to have one of our own maps installed there and then, so out came the laptop and a few hours later we saw the best ever figures we have had on our dyno from a K03 car with such minor mods!
Bhp improved from 205 to 262
Torque improved from 220 to 315 ft/lb
(measured on a dyno dynamics dyno in shootout mode)
I have spent the last 4 hours looking over maps and comparing this particular map to 50+ other ko3 remaps we have on file, the biggest difference is in the way we modified the torque limit map structure and the n75 map, this has produced a much stronger torque curve that holds for far longer throughout the rpm range and doesn't drop off in the same way that most ko3 power curves seem to. Intake temps are all good and with only 3 degrees of ignition retardation and sensible EGT values.
Now my thinking is that this could have been a 1 off, just a car that did better than most? So what I need is 2 people that want a remap, either on a standard car or mildly modified that have a late model gti with k03 turbo. I will carry out a full custom map with dyno testing and data logging etc.. For around £100. This is more to satisfy my curiosity than anything else and at the same time a couple of forum members can get a bargain.
Here is a post by the customer: http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?p=62116#post62116
And a copy of the dyno graph is here: http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=418&d=1283641676
Just wished I had spent more time on my own k03 car now before dismissing it for the k04 ed30. Just need to see if the results can be replicated on some more cars. Hope someone finds this post useful and if any other tuners are interested in this software version, message me :happy2:
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Do you not fancy doing an edition 30 for that price :wink:
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And then to move onto a K04 and see if you can replicate the percentage gains on a K04 based engine as well as a K03 based engine?
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would love to - except that i'm at the wrong end of the country for you... :ashamed:
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Where are you based? Would it be a problem if my car already has a REVO remap?
Ive got a 2007 GTi with a Miltek cat back and VWR panel filter so the same mods as the car you have already done.
Ben
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kinda messes up my plans for stage 3 with my current supplier or i would be up.
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I'm on a stock K03 and I live near Glasgow. I'm going to Canada this week, but I'd be interested if you would take me in a couple of weeks time...? :pomppomp:
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Interesting.. On JKM's Dyno-Dynamics I was consistently seeing around 240 bhp on Revo Stage 2! And now it's only the addition of the Forge Twintake which has taken my K03 GTI to around 260 bhp. Great driveability though and that's what matters to me most.
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Interested in a ED30, Dave? I'm only round the corner from you too :wink:
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Very interested. Completely boggo standard 2006 KO3. Just ripe for tinkering. I'm in Bristol but will travel. :driver: Let me know what you think, although not as late a model as you're probably after.
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Hi Lads,
Not interested in extending this offer to the K04 cars as I have one already, however we will do some great prices on our own maps for forum members. If you have a K03 and are genuinely interested and can come along this week, call me. I have one member coming in today so will update later with results.
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^^^ where are you located? did a bit of a trawl via your links etc ...North East of England?
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http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=NE35+9LN&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.074051,56.90918&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Boldon+Colliery,+Tyne+And+Wear+NE35+9LN,+United+Kingdom&z=16
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Balls why is the good stuff always the other side of the country would of taken you up on the offer otherwise
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Just a quick note, 2forum members have been in touch and booked in. Thanks for the offers lads.
One that we tuned today made great figures and lovely torque curves but I am sure they will be online soon to update you themselves once they have had a bit of fun on the way home :laugh:
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how did it compare in comparison then?
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Interesting.. On JKM's Dyno-Dynamics I was consistently seeing around 240 bhp on Revo Stage 2! And now it's only the addition of the Forge Twintake which has taken my K03 GTI to around 260 bhp. Great driveability though and that's what matters to me most.
yours is different, i reckon your settings are low, as i have seen quite a few stage 1 revo cars make those figures on JKMs, as well as my stage 1 bluefin. Coincidently yours is the only sub 250hp stage 2 ive seen from JKMs dyno. but as you say, its if you like the end result what counts, and you are obviously more than happy with what you have :happy2:
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Damn, just missed out :sad:
i have a standard KO3 car and was gonna be up that way soon.
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My car only got 250 BHP on PDT's own rollers and that is with 2+ map S3 and forge twinter. The only thing missing at the time was a intake. I got 259 on dyne dynamics rollers last year without the HPFP pump and 2+ map. Once i added the intake i managed a 13.7 on the strip at inters, which if you check the fastest Ko3DSG cars on Jonny's list is ahead of all the competition i think. :happy2:
What i am trying to say is i am pretty sure my car is running well and near the maximum for it's spec and yet only got 250 on PDT's rollers, and yet a stage one car with his own map managed an incredible 262. :chicken:
Just my opinion of course but something smells fishy to me, I know that revo's main aim is to get the best figures of all the tuners, rightly or wrongly, so how come Dave has managed to turn 2 fish and five loaves into a banquet. :innocent:
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:popcornsoda:
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easy to make good power on a dyno, use a bungee cord to strap it down :grin:
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Just my opinion of course but something smells fishy to me, I know that revo's main aim is to get the best figures of all the tuners, rightly or wrongly, so how come Dave has managed to turn 2 fish and five loaves into a banquet. :innocent:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Foook me i just spat my tea all over the desk. Thats one of the funniest posts i've seen.
On a side note i know of a Skoda Octavia vRS that got 266bhp on Stage 1 REVO.
BUT it had all the mods that now reside on my car (less a catch can) as i bought most of them, so EVOMS, HPFP, Neuspeed Turbo Outlet, S3 Cooler. The settings were quite aggressive too (B8 T7 F7 iirc)
Sometimes i think some cars just don't perform on the Dyno. My car is REVO Stage 2+ but i cannot make anymore than 265bhp and 300lb/ft on JKM's Rollers. But my car is quicker (and by some margin) than a mates who is REVO stage 2 and gets 258Bhp.
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easy to make good power on a dyno, use a bungee cord to strap it down :grin:
I've seen Blade's Leon do that before :surprised:
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gives high readings, and i s a result of the dyno operator not strapping down correctly or sufficiently. ive seen cars dyno 500Hp that havent done that
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ive seen cars dyno 500Hp that havent done that
I'm going to flutter my eyelashes at Keith from JKM just before i eventually sell mine and see if he can give me a Dyno Printout for 500bhp on the vRS :laugh: :laugh:
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My car only got 250 BHP on PDT's own rollers and that is with 2+ map S3 and forge twinter. The only thing missing at the time was a intake. I got 259 on dyne dynamics rollers last year without the HPFP pump and 2+ map. Once i added the intake i managed a 13.7 on the strip at inters, which if you check the fastest Ko3DSG cars on Jonny's list is ahead of all the competition i think. :happy2:
What i am trying to say is i am pretty sure my car is running well and near the maximum for it's spec and yet only got 250 on PDT's rollers, and yet a stage one car with his own map managed an incredible 262. :chicken:
Just my opinion of course but something smells fishy to me, I know that revo's main aim is to get the best figures of all the tuners, rightly or wrongly, so how come Dave has managed to turn 2 fish and five loaves into a banquet. :innocent:
I understand your scepticism, if I hadn't seen the proof then I would also be saying the same. The benefit of DD dynos are that they display the compensation calibrations at the bottom of the screen, so if someone tries to manipulate the final figures it's simple to see it has been done.
You can't compare a Revo product to this product as it is a different item, as a Revo dealer I understand and know the limitations of the software, with a custom written map there are no limitations as such and with plenty of research and development you can achieve very good results.
You could say that the dyno is reading high, but one of the cars in question made more or less original power, the car tuned today made a standard figure 2 % higher that expected, and after testing various map versions we settled on a power figure of 258 bhp.
If in doubt, I will gladly post the power graph, complete with atmospheric conditions and compensation calibrations for scrutiny, even send them to DynoDynamics to be checked if you like.
As for strapping with a bungee cord, nice idea but strapping a car in that manor on a dyno is not only highly dangerous but also the car would not produce a clean smooth graph as it would simply wheelspin and pull all over the place, as that Leon did in that video :signLOL:
During the test on all cars they are strapped in the same manor, just because your car (topcat) didn't make great figures, doesn't mean it is slow, it just doesn't make as much power as another car, the dyno measures power and unless it falsely calibrated (easy to see if this has happened) then it can't discriminate from one car to the next.
Why does this stage 1 / custom map make more power that an equivalent stage 2 branded product ? Its all in the mapping, And to someone that understands mapping and logging, if you compare the two then the reason for the strong torque curve and good power figure the reason will be obvious. I am sure if this change was made to many other stage 1 maps they could achieve the same but it's not a conventional map that gets adjusted it's usually ignored due to the complexities involved, I have however seen very similar power from 1 other companies maps, they also adjust this parameter in a similar way, so it's by no means a new 'miracle invention'
Dave.
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Am really interested in this discussion, despite having a K04 based car. Dave, can you elaborate a little on the limitations of Revo, compared to a custom map and how this removes such limitations. I like the technical discussions :happy2:
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I know its the wrong thread Dave, but what can you get out of a standard k04?
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Yer what effects would this custom mapping have on stage 2 and stage 2+ cars?? You tried any yet??
Sie
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Hi all. I went to PDT today and had the map installed. wat can i say but wow! had a bit of fun on the way home was really impressed with the acceleration in 6th from 70. the car feels a lot smoother and pulls a lot harder in every gear and across the full rev range. :driver: my filal figures were 258bhp and 312ftlb :evilgrin:
i had a race with my mate in his stg2 megane sport running 275bhp and 335ftlb and there was nothing in it :jumpmove:
just like to say thanks to dave top bloke :drinking:
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So how much would it be to have an Equivalent Stage 2+ custom map from you
I currently have REVO but would be interested in this if you could achieve similar results over the stage 2+ :happy2:
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can we see these graphs please. could you also use the full width of the graph so we can see the power/torque curves
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(in response to damogeans post)
A standard K04 will usually see between 295 and 305 bhp, or 360 if you provide your own bungee cord and stand WELL back :signLOL:
The limitations of Revo are that you have a sliding scale from 1-9 for timing, boost and fuelling and you are limited to this as you can't adjust a certain parameter against an rpm or throttle value, so it's 1-9 boost and that's that. What if you want the equivalent of 11 boost? Well you need to start again with stage 2 or 2+.
And you want to add boost at full throttle at 3000 rpm but not at 5000 rpm? Not possible. And you are getting timing pull at 3000 rpm but not at 6500 rpm so you remove timing to solve the problem at 3000 rpm but this also removes timing at 6500 rpm and the peak power is lower.
With a custom map in that situation you can remove timing at 3000rpm to resolve the timing pull issue and add some at 6500rpm, this allows you to have the best of both worlds. It's far more technical than that in reality but that's the basics behind the limitations and how a custom map overcomes these limitations to achieve the desired results.
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Am really interested in this discussion, despite having a K04 based car. Dave, can you elaborate a little on the limitations of Revo, compared to a custom map and how this removes such limitations. I like the technical discussions :happy2:
Same here :happy2:
Dave have you got any VCDS logs of the cars? I would particularly like to see boost, timing advance, timing pull, rail pressure, n75 cycle, maf g/s, and engine load.
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I have however seen very similar power from 1 other companies maps, they also adjust this parameter in a similar way, so it's by no means a new 'miracle invention'
Dave.
Are you prepared to say who the '1 other company' is? Reason I ask is that I've not long ago had a GIAC Stage 1 map installed, along with a new OEM DV, and got 255 bhp and 303 lb/ft on the rollers at Star Performance in Kirkcaldy.
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(in response to damogeans post)
A standard K04 will usually see between 295 and 305 bhp, or 360 if you provide your own bungee cord and stand WELL back :signLOL:
The limitations of Revo are that you have a sliding scale from 1-9 for timing, boost and fuelling and you are limited to this as you can't adjust a certain parameter against an rpm or throttle value, so it's 1-9 boost and that's that. What if you want the equivalent of 11 boost? Well you need to start again with stage 2 or 2+.
And you want to add boost at full throttle at 3000 rpm but not at 5000 rpm? Not possible. And you are getting timing pull at 3000 rpm but not at 6500 rpm so you remove timing to solve the problem at 3000 rpm but this also removes timing at 6500 rpm and the peak power is lower.
With a custom map in that situation you can remove timing at 3000rpm to resolve the timing pull issue and add some at 6500rpm, this allows you to have the best of both worlds. It's far more technical than that in reality but that's the basics behind the limitations and how a custom map overcomes these limitations to achieve the desired results.
Thanks Dave, clear and succinct post which has answered by question well, thanks :happy2:
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Thanks from me as well.
Im even more interested now and would like to know if the same could be done with a Stage 2+ file.
You never know we might see a K03 genuinely crack 290bhp :happy2:
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bacilus has managed to crack 300Hp on his on numerous rollerson rolling road days when everyone else has made as expected in comparison
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With what mods?
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Personally, I'd much prefer to see a KO3 with Revo and a KO3 with this custom software actually bench tested. That will give the only credible answer!
Rolling roads are so innacurate! Look at mine at the Superchips day...same conditions as every other car and my KO3 ran 293hp simply because it was running hotter than the other cars and so the rolling road over corrected for it (or this is my limited understanding of what happened)....
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With what mods?
stage 2+ but std intake iirc
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To answer a few peoples questions, not started on maps for. A stage 2+ equivalent yet for either ko3 or ko4 and with the work load at present I don't plan on doing so this side of Xmas!
As for the 'other company' that has achieved similar by using the same method, they will remain nameless as they may not be happy that other tuners are pulling apart their software developments this is commonplace in the tuning industry but most won't admit to it!
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With what mods?
stage 2+ but std intake iirc
Im ditching the EVOMS then :laugh:
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To answer a few peoples questions, not started on maps for. A stage 2+ equivalent yet for either ko3 or ko4 and with the world at present I don't plan on doing so this side of Xmas!
As for the 'other company' that has achieved similar by using the same method, they will remain nameless as they may not be happy that other tuners are pulling apart their software developments this is commonplace in the tuning industry but most won't admit to it!
Want a guinea pig? :evilgrin:
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I have however seen very similar power from 1 other companies maps, they also adjust this parameter in a similar way, so it's by no means a new 'miracle invention'
Are you prepared to say who the '1 other company' is? Reason I ask is that I've not long ago had a GIAC Stage 1 map installed, along with a new OEM DV, and got 255 bhp and 303 lb/ft on the rollers at Star Performance in Kirkcaldy.
TAs for the 'other company' that has achieved similar by using the same method, they will remain nameless as they may not be happy that other tuners are pulling apart their software developments this is commonplace in the tuning industry but most won't admit to it!
hope we weren't copying there, thats cheating, only joking mate. fair play and hats off to you if you have managed to do this. Custom mapping will always be better IMO.
im keen to see the dyno and logs of each as well. how are you getting around the fueling iassues on the standard pump. thats alot of torque for the std pump to manage.
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Tbh revo stage2+ seems pretty much perfect!
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the car pulls hard all the way with no drops or stutters :happy2:
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Fuel pumps help keep pressure up, there are ways to add fuel to a map without adding pump a pressure :wink:
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Tbh revo stage2+ seems pretty much perfect!
Depends who you ask :surprised:
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ignoring the curves of which id expect the stage 2+ to be better, you have a standard car making 260Hp/313ibft with no hardware upgrades.
most revo stage 2+ cars are making between 260/270hp and 300Ibft on dyno dynamic rollers with intakes, intercoolers, discharge pipes, and HPFP.
so if you can manage that with the stage 1 due to being able to customise, surely the same can happen for a fully modded k03??
Fuel pumps help keep pressure up, there are ways to add fuel to a map without adding pump a pressure :wink:
im not saying your wrong, because evidently i am not a subject matter expert, but why did the two biggest names in vag tuning, APR and REVO with their huge R&D depts and budgets take so long to sort it outthe maps so they had no fuel cut and further more take an age to develop the stage 2+ maps
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@PDT
can u post the graphs up m8 :jumpmove:
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@PDT
can u post the graphs up m8 :jumpmove:
x2, but please scale them similar to the jkm Dyno dynamics style. much easier to analyze/compare to others etc IMO
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hPFP is the best way, and for stg2+ they are 100% essential, revo and Giac are not a custom map so they have their limitations, they can't ask each and every dealer to start dyno testing every car and fine tuning fuel injector duration, so a bolt on HPFP is the simplest option to match their ready made software.
Giac stage 1 seems to be about the best stg1 software out there at present ( and that's coming from a Revo dealer) I have tested 2 cars, both made around 255bhp with over 300ft/lb on otherwise standard cars.
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@PDT
can u post the graphs up m8 :jumpmove:
Do you have a copy of the graph from today? If so can you post it? If not I can possibly get a copy posted tomorrow. Unless someone can post a copy of a graph if I email them a pic? Just post up your email address.
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hi m8 yeah i got a copy but i dont have a scanner. not sure how to upload pics on here :signLOL:
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take a pic and upload it to photo bucket
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Giac stage 1 seems to be about the best stg1 software out there at present ( and that's coming from a Revo dealer) I have tested 2 cars, both made around 255bhp with over 300ft/lb on otherwise standard cars.
That's good to hear! So, the figures that I thought were perhaps a little on the 'generous' side may not be so far fetched after all!
Cheers mate. :happy2:
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russ_fq340@hotmail.co.uk
ill have a go at posting them
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What about the VCDS logs? Do you have any?
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Yes but not available right now. Have emailed a graph to a member on here to post.
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Yes but not available right now. Have emailed a graph to a member on here to post.
did u send them 2 me or sum1 else?
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Here is the graph.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aibrahim.co.uk%2Fpdt.jpg&hash=e52925ee816e4da528ef7b60cdd91c825673d379)
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That car had a milltek catback and k&n panel ^^^
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Will this map be available on your usual deal of £199 ?
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any luck with the other graphs and logs?
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I would say this is more like phase2 mapping?
From what I have seen from the k03 340lbft 262bhp is certainly not safe power to be runing from the stock dowpipe. What sort of egts was the car running after 30 seconds at full load held @ 3500rpm and then at 6000rpm? How come the power tails of so early at 6000rpm? I would have thought you would allow the power to carry on upto 7000rpm?
There is no point going past 6k rpm on K03 so the dyno run is stopped.
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Phase1 or phase 2. Or custom, it all means different things to different people and different tuning companies so you can't categorise every tuning method.
stage 1 is generally perceived to be the best option for a standard car and further mods require further tuning options, we offer 2 options for turbo petrols, stage 1 for standard cars and custom mapping for anything after that and then REVO of course has its own upgrade path.
The reason power is tailed off at 6500 rpm is due to the fact the power curve has plateu'd at this point and the KO3 tends not to enjoy high rpm as it simply can't move the volume of air associated with high rpm, especially with intake temps on the standard intercooler and the restriction posed by the standard intake. EGT's are within acceptable levels even held on the dyno under high load, however dyno testing EGT's isn't ideal as they never replicate on road EGT testing, but as a rule if it's safe on the dyno it generally will never see the same level of load in real world conditions, I have logged literally hundreds of cars on the road and the dyno for EGT's and held under load over 5 runs on the dyno the peak EGT's are usually 20% higher that any replicated road car, on road test.
The power achieved is extremely safe on the standard down pipe, an aftermarket down pipe would be a benefit but not essential for this level of mapping, after all we are only talking a few % more power over and above what Giac and Revo can achieve with a stage 1 map.
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Here is the graph.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aibrahim.co.uk%2Fpdt.jpg&hash=e52925ee816e4da528ef7b60cdd91c825673d379)
Air temps and Intake temps are rather high from this graph !! :surprised: . To get such a good figure with high temp readings is surprising.
Normally air temps half that will get improoved results.
I cant see how a K03 with a stage 1, catback exhaust and a Improoved oem filter element will make such a gain...
A k04 stage 1 Edition 30 ive seen has ran 265bhp on DD rollers with a full milltek exhaust aswell, and that car was perfectly healthy. :stupid:
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^^^^
Are you sure as redline on a K03 is 6500rpm.
I don't know of any decent tuner that takes a K03 beyond 6000-6500rpm on a Dyno :confused:
K04 yes but K03 no chance.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252020%252002%252010%2FDyno%2520Graphs%2FRED.gif&hash=7b995c59e261f02a2bcf87608d00537163bfbfe2)
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^^^^
I stand corrected. I just looked at my last graph from JKM and that goes to 6900 rpm :drinking:
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20-25 degrees is classed as low by most, either way the temps are irrelevant to dyno figures as long as the AT and IT are relatively close as the dyno be backcalculted and compensated for. After all, if it's 20degrees on the day, you can't make it any lower than that!
Thers no benefit in revving the car to 7000rpm and holding the power on a flat output as this won't benefit real world performance and acceleration as peak torque has been and gone. Saying that the car could be revved higher on the dyno to show where the power tails off but on a ko3 they don't gain any power after 6500, they lose power between 6500 and 7000 as shown in that last graph that was posted.
Who's was the ed30 that made 265? That really is low!
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Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
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Your not wrong when it comes to stock mapping for the LDR scales to 6800rpm with a load request of 100.078%(ie not much boost) NA the major tail off come in 6600rpm when the load drops from 140.0156% at 6200rpm to 114.0%. To get a good power reading over 6400rpm and to get the car pulling over 7k the maps need to be fully rescaled and done right the car will make good power close on 8000rpm
Have you tested this theory? If so any chance of a copy of the software? Any guinea pigs :evilgrin:
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You were saying that giac was one of the best stage 1 maps out there, have you had any k03 giac stage 2+type maps on the dyno yet, im really impressed with mine. Ive not had it on the rollers but my in gear times ect ect dont seem to be too far away from the K04 guys even though i should be making about 50bhp less.
very good figures from your map though, its good to see more custom maps being offered, i had had a custom map on my 1.8T from star a few years ago and it was noticably quicker than the oposition.
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Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
The biggest benefit of DD rollers is that they will all make very similar figures, I am yet to see an ed30 on stage 1 make less than 290hp and 300ft/lb was it tested in standard form also? Any explanation for the low figures, would be good to know the REVO settings also.
As for the logs people have asked for, I am tuning another KO3 soon, are there any particular parameters you want me to measure other than the usuals? Will gladly post them up :happy2:
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You were saying that giac was one of the best stage 1 maps out there, have you had any k03 giac stage 2+type maps on the dyno yet, im really impressed with mine. Ive not had it on the rollers but my in gear times ect ect dont seem to be too far away from the K04 guys even though i should be making about 50bhp less.
very good figures from your map though, its good to see more custom maps being offered, i had had a custom map on my 1.8T from star a few years ago and it was noticably quicker than the oposition.
I have tested 2 Giac k03 stage 1 cars, but no other giac software. Both made good figures but I didn't get to test drivability or on road performance, but from the figures and dyno curves I am confident thatbthey would drive well. They certainly outperformed the revo stage 1 as far as dyno figures, but I would be the first to say that the numbers aren't the be all and end all of a cars performance.
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Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
The biggest benefit of DD rollers is that they will all make very similar figures, I am yet to see an ed30 on stage 1 make less than 290hp and 300ft/lb was it tested in standard form also? Any explanation for the low figures, would be good to know the REVO settings also.
As for the logs people have asked for, I am tuning another KO3 soon, are there any particular parameters you want me to measure other than the usuals? Will gladly post them up :happy2:
Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
265-280 bhp is realistic power.
My Stage 1 Ed30 made 284.6bhp and 305 lb ft, with same mods on JKM's aswell.
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As for the logs people have asked for, I am tuning another KO3 soon, are there any particular parameters you want me to measure other than the usuals? Will gladly post them up :happy2:
I posted the logs I would be interested to see already :happy2:
Dave have you got any VCDS logs of the cars? I would particularly like to see boost, timing advance, timing pull, rail pressure, n75 cycle, maf g/s, and engine load.
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Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
Hedge was on Tuna fish though and not Great White Shark :happy2:
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^^^^
I stand corrected. I just looked at my last graph from JKM and that goes to 6900 rpm :drinking:
i just looked at alot of stage 2 and 2+ k03 grahs and they are all making a plateau of good power upto 6900rpm. the torque is falling away heavily though
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Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
:stupid:
On a standard exhaust or catback at best. With a downpipe it was much better. :booty:
This was with Superchips though not Revo.
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Overtfsi do you have a copy of the Al2 file you could share? Or a .bin file of the 8k rpm file?
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Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
The biggest benefit of DD rollers is that they will all make very similar figures, I am yet to see an ed30 on stage 1 make less than 290hp and 300ft/lb was it tested in standard form also? Any explanation for the low figures, would be good to know the REVO settings also.
As for the logs people have asked for, I am tuning another KO3 soon, are there any particular parameters you want me to measure other than the usuals? Will gladly post them up :happy2:
as for running these cars at 8000rpm, they might well make power, but can the valve train handle that. i thought JC had to uprate his valvetrain to cope on his previous BT setup
but we can all say that we are yet to see a car make you stage 1 figures on a Dyno Dynamics roller anywhere else. same goes for the stage 2+ k04 on your car. they were also much higher than the usual DD results.
im keen to see logs, dave im not saying you would, however logs can be easily doctored, so they can only be a guide.
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come on then overTFSI, who are you then? you know far more than the average guy.
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but we can all say that we are yet to see a car make you stage 1 figures on a Dyno Dynamics roller anywhere else. same goes for the stage 2+ k04 on your car. they were also much higher than the usual DD
We went through a full calibration and setup with dynodynamics recently as the dyno had thrown up a few odd results, so it is fully calibrated and checked and proven to be accurate. Also when stock cars are tested the figures are realistic. My own ed30 on stage 2+ does (well did) make high figures but that was down to running lots of ign timing on the dyno, it has now been pulled back by quite a way as it suffered occasional limp mode due to high timing pull due to the aggressive map. Dropping from timing 8 to 5.
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but we can all say that we are yet to see a car make you stage 1 figures on a Dyno Dynamics roller anywhere else. same goes for the stage 2+ k04 on your car. they were also much higher than the usual DD results.
Well I'm guinea pig number 2 and I'm heading up to Tyne and wear on Thursday, and we'll see if the results can be verified as I'd already booked in to JKM with the group RR on October 16th.
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come on then overTFSI, who are you then? you know far more than the average guy.
I have a good idea who the mystery man is :wink: thanks for the al2 file :happy2:
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Cant believe all this hype about a poxy little golf running 262 bhp?? :grin:
If anyone needs to see the proof of the pudding i'm sure i could arrange another trip up to PDT for a rerun and have it recorded for all to see on youtube etc?
Well i've done over 500 miles since the re-map and other than an unusually high cold start idle, it's been flawless, pulls like a train right through the box, never misses a beat and is still good on juice with it returning 29MPG ave, and thats with one hell of a heavy foot :driver:
Cheers again Dave! best £300 i ever spent
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independant dyno dynamics roller s are whats required lol
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Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.
The biggest benefit of DD rollers is that they will all make very similar figures, I am yet to see an ed30 on stage 1 make less than 290hp and 300ft/lb was it tested in standard form also? Any explanation for the low figures, would be good to know the REVO settings also.
As for the logs people have asked for, I am tuning another KO3 soon, are there any particular parameters you want me to measure other than the usuals? Will gladly post them up :happy2:
as for running these cars at 8000rpm, they might well make power, but can the valve train handle that. i thought JC had to uprate his valvetrain to cope on his previous BT setup
but we can all say that we are yet to see a car make you stage 1 figures on a Dyno Dynamics roller anywhere else. same goes for the stage 2+ k04 on your car. they were also much higher than the usual DD results.
Not entirely true mate. Gaz's S3 made 365bhp-ish on DD rollers at the Halifax RR meet.. :wink: JKM's rollers are the only DD rollers that are notoriously mean for bhp hunters. Whether they are accurate and everyone else's are out or vise versa, who knows?
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Can PDT please state how much this would be please? I am getting a little cofussed...it was £100 for the testers, then someone stated is this your £199 map then above Scrupes said it was £300. Whats the deal?
Aplogies if I missed it in the 7 pages :ashamed:
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Can PDT please state how much this would be please? I am getting a little cofussed...it was £100 for the testers, then someone stated is this your £199 map then above Scrupes said it was £300. Whats the deal?
Aplogies if I missed it in the 7 pages :ashamed:
£ 400 to you. 500 if you wait until tomorrow. :laugh:
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Can PDT please state how much this would be please? I am getting a little cofussed...it was £100 for the testers, then someone stated is this your £199 map then above Scrupes said it was £300. Whats the deal?
Aplogies if I missed it in the 7 pages :ashamed:
I think the £100 offer for guinea pigs was just to see if a similar output could be replicated or if it was just to do with my car having a fantastic engine :booty: (yeah right :signLOL:) it could also mean that there has been some other changes to my car's hardware that i'm unaware of???? Cant physically see anything but then, not all parts are visible without removing things and i would'nt know what i'm looking for as this is the first non v6 engine i've owned for over 10 yrs?? The car has 40,000 on the clock, maybe that makes a difference???
The £199 remap would (as far as i can make out) be a 'generic' or stage 1 re-map with pre-determined values written in, the one i got was a 'custom' remap which Dave has tinkered with.
From speaking to Dave on the day it also seemed that the £199 map was not available for my car but it's listed on the website as such so could just be an admin error.
Like i've said before on here and on other sites, £300 for a similar (if not better) output as a leading tuning house's re-map is still £150 - £200 lighter on the pocket and just as much grin on the face.
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well i have no hardware mods on mine and with this map mine made 258bhp and 312ft/lb. it keeps up with my mates 274bhp 335ft/ld megane sport no probs so i dont doubt the figures at all. as said it pulls hard all the way through the rev range in every gear
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To clear up the pricing questions, our standard price is £399. The offer on our site doesnt cover all cars and certainly not the TFSi engine cars as these are far more complex than your average 1.9 TDi.
For forum members we charge £299 inc dyno testing. We did an offer for a few forum members as we wanted to get a couple of cars in this week to test some software versions but we cant offer this to everyone of coures, its more to satisfy our curiousity than anuthing else and a couple of you get a great deal out of it :happy2:
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Dave (slightly off topic I know) is there any chance you can post me a rescaled version of my graph please? :happy2:
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Cool £299 then, thanks for clearing that up.
(trust this includes VAT?)
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yes, including VAT :happy2:
Ron, I will get a copy of your graph sent, I got as far as prining it off and scanning it in but not actually emailing it. Sorry :love:
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Just a little bit about my day at PDtuning today. I think my car is the third 06 gti to be tested in the last few days by Dave and going by the first two cars results was this going to be three in a row and cause even more discussion on the boards?
Unfortunately not. It started off well measuring the stock figures which came out at 199.1 on the BHP and around 220 on the torque. I thought those were quite respectable for an 06 car with 110k on the clock. It wasn't all plain sailing though as the dsg wasn't liking holding gear in 4th and this was to continue for the rest of the afternoon. But a bench figure was set, now what would the final result be?
With the maps loaded and lots more runs performed combined with trying to hold the dsg in 3rd gear a second problem reared its head. A boost problem (00066g/p0299) 'control pressure not reached' causing low boost was flagged up. As i've just recently had the DV valve replaced with the new piston type valve this was pointing towards a split pipe or loosening connection. Unfortunately as it was nearing the end of the day further investigation and the fact I had to head back to Bristol and work negated that plan of action.
We did get some figures though and as stands I'm looking at 233 BHP and 288 on the Torque. The majority of runs were in the 233-237 ball park and torque wise I even got a 303 on one run, but what with the car not holding boost I'll have to wait until it's fixed to get the proper final figures.
I'll see some of you at the JKM RR day by which time I hope its fixed. In the mean time it'll be booked in for pressure testing and hopefully just a new pipe or connectors being tightened up.
I had a great day none the less and thanks to Dave and his mate for answering my questions, and I met another forum member there too, who was very helpful on deciding what should be bought next. :happy2:
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Interesting results :happy2:
Sounds like your missing a couple of bhp, but near 240 for your car sounds spot on :smiley:
Look foward to seeing you at JKm :smiley:
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out of interest are all the cars currently tested DSG or manual?
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I'm pretty sure mine was the first dsg.
Apart from the figures, due to the miles I cover I was also pretty concerned on the MPG aswell as BHP and Torque. I know that's not necessarily high up on most peoples concerns here so on the way up set to cruise @76, aircon on and tunes playing I averaged 37 mpg, while on the way back I managed 35mpg. I didn't think that was too bad considering the increase in figures. The car was noticeably more eager in the midrange and overtaking was a breeze. We'll see what happens when the boost issue is sorted. If anyone knows what the boost code points to specifically that'd be great too.
Thanks.
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Hi Dajonic, thanks for calling up yesterday albeit you left with a boost leak problem which left a bit of a dampner in my mind.
However, it interets me to find out where the boost is leaking so keep us updated and I am sure it will drive a huge amount better once sorted, If you had lived a little closer we could have had the car up on the lift and inspected further but unfortunately that wasn't an option due to time.
With the DSG being load based I think that may also have been related to the boost leak issue and it wanting to downshift rather than upshift at higher RPM. I have never had a DSG try to downshift in such a way on the dyno!
Dave.
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No worries Dave. It's booked into VW next Wednesday for the pressure testing so I'll keep you up to date on that. You have a pm too.
cheers
Dave.