MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: the bruce on December 22, 2010, 02:02:24 pm
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Hello,
did You ever thought of optimizing arodynamics without being anything visible?
Why this?
At high speeds ''aerodynamic drag'' is the main factor. Reducing it by a low margin
has larger effects on dynamics and economy.
Also there is ''aerodynamic lift'' causing instability. The Golf's front isn't any problem.
It's got nearly no lift (about 5 kg @ 200 km/h). The rear is a unequal problem with
all hatches. The Golf V GTI produces around 35 kg lift @ 200 km/h, also the Mk.VI.
That's much more important because the cars's tail is lightweight an when breaking
hard it's even much lighter. Some of You may have experienced that by their own.
:driver:
Dont' expect wonders, but there's a slight improvement possible for very low budget.
There are some OEM-parts from Audi TT, newer A3 and Golf BlueMotion that fit the
Golf V + VI GTI easily:
- larger underbody engine/gearbox cover (instead of smaller one)
- small deflector between rear axle and muffler
- some smaller parts to come later (and more complicated)
There are no downsides like higher Oiltemperatures !! I measured with the Kufatec
E-MFA an increase of just 1° (from 112° to 113° peak full throttle in summer).
The engine compartment is also much cleaner since then. :happy2:
Note: only the ''... ... 237 P'' has three ''NACA''-style openings. Two for the gearbox,
one for the turbo.
Example Audi A3 (almost identical to Golf V/VI):
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1276873127_14.jpg&hash=9b648545150426db075558b238d1e96f7d2342e2)
Between fuel tank an rear exhaust there's the ''Hinterachsverkleidung'' = rear axle cover.
Installation is made in 5 - 10 minutes each !!
There are even some more, but these are the easiest to install parts:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1281358096_14.jpg&hash=ce58b9809e71bc88a1d968e15a07218d2ecbabbe)
:drinking:
- to be continued -
Some Porsches first:
997 II GT3:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.sportauto-online.de%2FPorsche-911-GT3-fotoshowImage-2add91-245984.jpg&hash=60f19d00c0e7055512ffb6cefeda5c46abb896e3)
Während der Vorgänger mit einer ausgewogenen Balance auf neutraler Nullebene vorstellig wurde, also bar jeglichen Auf- beziehungsweise Abtriebs, wird dessen Nachfolger nunmehr mit 152 Newton Abtrieb an der Vorderachse und gar 186 Newton Abtrieb an der Hinterachse bedacht.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.sportauto-online.de%2FPorsche-911-GT3-fotoshowImage-c3b9af18-245985.jpg&hash=3b1ccd7645b9cd69d60851b72b6de6effbb79116)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.sportauto-online.de%2FPorsche-911-GT3-fotoshowImage-9ff3198a-245986.jpg&hash=b921a96ea4fbb69cc899d88547b2f194e9c0ff35)
http://www.sportauto-online.de/bilder/porsche-911-gt3-im-supertest-neuer-strassensportler-setzt-bestmarke-1332080.html?fotoshow_item=15#fotoshow_item=16 (http://www.sportauto-online.de/bilder/porsche-911-gt3-im-supertest-neuer-strassensportler-setzt-bestmarke-1332080.html?fotoshow_item=15#fotoshow_item=16)
2006 GT3:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportauto-online.de%2Fsupertest%2Fporsche-911-gt3-auf-der-rennstrecke-nuerburgring-hockenheim-1040952.html%3Cbr+%2F%3E%3Cbr+%2F%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fimg4.sportauto-online.de%2Fimage-fotoshowImage-348acdd3-220043.jpg&hash=53896c5b24ec6a8bd96cc56584886bebc2c5dc21)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.sportauto-online.de%2Fimage-fotoshowImage-40e1fd13-220042.jpg&hash=4de5e44fa85d55dffb7bcff381809001bbd73617)
2007er Vergleich zwischen GT3 und GT3 RS:
http://www.sportauto-online.de/supertest/datenanalyse-porsche-911-gt3-gt3-rs-im-supertest-besser-denn-je-der-neue-porsche-gt3-1345012.html (http://www.sportauto-online.de/supertest/datenanalyse-porsche-911-gt3-gt3-rs-im-supertest-besser-denn-je-der-neue-porsche-gt3-1345012.html)
2007 GT3 RS:
http://www.sportauto-online.de/bilder/porsche-911-gt3-rs-auf-der-nordschleife-und-dem-hockenheimring-1041046.html?fotoshow_item=10#fotoshow_item=11 (http://www.sportauto-online.de/bilder/porsche-911-gt3-rs-auf-der-nordschleife-und-dem-hockenheimring-1041046.html?fotoshow_item=10#fotoshow_item=11)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.sportauto-online.de%2Fimage-fotoshowImage-f4a3af39-191453.jpg&hash=3d13658548f835f63d092bb5258dccea52b91caf)
Abtrieb an der HA von 100 N > 10 kg.
2011 GT3 RS:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportauto-online.de%2Fsupertest%2Fporsche-911-gt3-rs-im-test-leichter-staerker-besser-nordschleife-1861957.html&hash=5fc626a0103bee8180932bc111a8b836e048733e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.sportauto-online.de%2FPorsche-911-GT3-RS-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-807fbbf8-352266.jpg&hash=f8dfc185e7664dae03cfd9495488870c708f0183)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.sportauto-online.de%2FPorsche-911-GT3-RS-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-f7cc9e3c-352267.jpg&hash=5bb7e75394de3492d691147e5bc3bfe3209dbc81)
Während der Mercedes-Windkanal an der Vorderachse bei 200 km/h noch etwa denselben Abtrieb wie beim GT3 ausweist (11 Kilogramm), fällt er an der Hinterachse deutlich höher aus: Dank des vom RSR abgeguckten Heckflügels wird sie mit 49 Kilogramm beaufschlagt (GT3: 19 kg). Das durch das verstellbare Karbonteil generierte, leichte Aufnickmoment nimmt der auch stärker ausgeprägteren Frontlippe des RS folglich etwas die Wirkung.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.sportauto-online.de%2FPorsche-911-GT3-RS-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-1e1c9fc-352268.jpg&hash=6abf15282c294f5134c4b2a2eab5052cc212c0ed)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.sportauto-online.de%2FPorsche-911-GT3-RS-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-2fc729a6-352269.jpg&hash=d33d5cb53e06ef2546e53be1ff93f0f3c41713d4)
M3 E92:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.sportauto-online.de%2FBMW-M3-04-fotoshowImage-91b73221-219515.jpg&hash=3803f3aa46654a379702c3f42205038213dbc615)
Windkanal: Aerodynamische Balance
8 von 10 Punkten
Fahrzeugstirnfläche (A): 2.170 m²
Luftwiderstandsbeiwert (cw): 0.33
Luftwiderstandsindex (cw × A): 0.71
Vorderachse: 10 kg Auftrieb Hinterachse: 23 kg Auftrieb
Der mit auffälligem Powerdome auf der Motorhaube sowie angemessen ausgestellten Kotflügeln auf sich aufmerksam machende M3 tritt mit etwa demselben cw-Wert an wie die bisher sportlichste M3-Variante, der CSL. Die Hilfsmittel zur Reduzierung des Auftriebs bei hohen Geschwindigkeiten sind dafür etwas dezenter ausgefallen. Der auf der Kante des Kofferraumdeckels platzierte Gurney hilft, die ungewollte Wirkung des Fahrtwinds auf ein vernünftiges Maß zu reduzieren. Das Heck wird bei 200 km/h um lediglich 227 Newton entlastet. An der Vorderachse wurde ein noch geringerer Auftrieb, nämlich nur 102 Newton, registriert.
Some Golfs and similar cars:
Golf Mk.VI GTI Edition 35:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.sportauto-online.de%2FVW-Golf-GTI-Edition-35-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-70c3f98f-526848.jpg&hash=fdb879afa0a364f23720f6fa388626f30c1b8dc8)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.sportauto-online.de%2FVW-Golf-GTI-Edition-35-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-5b8ed7af-526847.jpg&hash=5c88f2f3f76c27406d02b1917e45672e4e68488c)
Fahrzeugstirnfläche (A): 2.230 m²
Luftwiderstandsbeiwert (cw): 0.31
Luftwiderstandsindex (cw × A): 0.69
Vorderachse: 0 kg Auf-/Abtrieb (front zero lift), Hinterachse: 31 kg Auftrieb (rear lift)
In aerodynamischer Hinsicht hat sich in der nunmehr sechsten VW Golf GTI-Generation einiges getan. Obwohl der cW-Wert signifikant verringert werden konnte, und zwar von vormals 0,33 auf jetzt 0,31, sind auch die Auftriebswerte verringert. Die statisch mit 882 Kilogramm belastete Vorderachse bleibt bei 200 km/h unberührt, das heißt der Auftrieb liegt bei null.
Der cW-Wert hat sich signifikant verringert (von 0,33 auf 0,31) und der Auftrieb erfährt eine Verbesserung: Bei 200 km/h geht er gegen Null.
Golf Mk.VI R:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.sportauto-online.de%2FVW-Golf-R-fotoshowImage-75ffd0c3-420732.jpg&hash=d71250e90a712beee0a1f98cf1e48f798bdd862f)
Fahrzeugstirnfläche (A): 2.250 m²
Luftwiderstandsbeiwert (cw): 0.33
Luftwiderstandsindex (cw × A): 0.75
Vorderachse: 5 kg Auftrieb (front lift), Hinterachse: 33 kg Auftrieb (rear lift)
Der cW-Wert fällt mit 0,33 nicht so windschlüpfig aus wie erwartet. Das lässt sich aber sowohl mit der großen Stirnfläche von 2,25 m² als auch mit den großen Kühlluftöffnungen in der Front und den breiten Reifen leicht erklären. Während der Auftrieb an der Vorderachse mit 47 Newton vernachlässigbar gering ist, steigt er an der Hinterachse bis 200 km/h auf 326 Newton an, was einer Entlastung von etwa 33 Kilogramm entspricht.
Golf Mk.V GTI:
Aerodynamische Balance
* A: 2.23 m²
* cw: 0.33
* index (cw × A): 0.74
* VA: 2 kg Auftrieb
* HA: 37 kg Auftrieb
bei 200 km/h (!!!)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1328207486_3041.jpg&hash=0be0d093e33d201c80983b6abbaf29018277eec1)
Golf R32:
3 kg Auftrieb an der VA und 36 kg an der HA
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1328207787_3041.jpg&hash=93be28b012098d526cc61ca8e465636e6227a7e4)
All Golfs (mk.V + Mk.VI) have surprisingly low lift on front. Sadly lift on rear is significient ans also drag.
Audi TT:
Lift 23 kg front and 24 kg rear (Spoiler at lift position).
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1328204924_3041.jpg&hash=47aa01efac494a925f985ad0a896eb87c55426eb)
Audi RS3:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.sportauto-online.de%2FAudi-RS-3-Sportback-Seitenansicht-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-d316fce0-498406.jpg&hash=e533bb20382d0e270e7f072563bf9b30be9df012)
Fahrzeugstirnfläche (A): 2.180 m²
Luftwiderstandsbeiwert (cw): 0.36
Luftwiderstandsindex (cw × A): 0.78
Vorderachse: 21 kg Auftrieb, Hinterachse: 1 kg Abtrieb
Aus der Stirnfläche von 2,184 m² und dem cW-Wert von 0,355 errechnet sich ein Luftwiderstandsindex von eher mäßigen 0,78. Die ungleichmäßige Gewichtsbalance von 60 zu 40 Prozent (Vorder-/Hinterachse) wird durch die aerodynamische Konstellation etwas gemildert. Der Auftrieb an der Vorderachse beträgt bei 200 km/h 203 Newton. Die Hinterachse wird mit Abtrieb bedacht - auch wenn es nur vernachlässigbare 14 Newton sind.
Ford Focus RS:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.sportauto-online.de%2FFord-Focus-RS-fotoshowImage-f95bf2fd-255720.jpg&hash=b19ac153c46f253acaa7c159daf2dd742c490c76)
Fahrzeugstirnfläche (A): 2.350 m²
Luftwiderstandsbeiwert (cw): 0.36
Luftwiderstandsindex (cw × A): 0.86
Vorderachse: 8 kg Abtrieb (front downforce); Hinterachse: 4 kg Auftrieb (rear lift)
Ford Focus RS Raeder Motorsport:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.sportauto-online.de%2FRaeder-Ford-Focus-RS-Aerodynamik-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-58ba5851-449517.jpg&hash=a1139cbca8f663e74b345f991460936495778bdb)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.sportauto-online.de%2FRaeder-Ford-Focus-RS-Aerodynamik-Windkanal-fotoshowImage-a9f95302-512955.jpg&hash=f5ce61306cb7129722ad9fc687b2325d3ee93211)
Fahrzeugstirnfläche (A): 2.350 m²
Luftwiderstandsbeiwert (cw): 0.35
Luftwiderstandsindex (cw × A): 0.82
Vorderachse: 0 kg Abtrieb (front zero lift/DF); Hinterachse: 9 kg Auftrieb (rear lift)
Während der Serien-Ford Focus RS im Windkanal an der Vorderachse mit leichtem Abtrieb (rund 80 Newton) gemessen wurde, zeigt die Raeder-Variante bei der Messung an gleicher Stelle eine neutrale Null. Eine etwas stärkere Auftriebstendenz offenbart sich auch an der Hinterachse, die bei 200 km/h nunmehr um 85 Newton (Serie: 40 Newton) entlastet wird. Der tiefere Grund für die geringfügige, gleichwohl ohne Konsequenz bleibende Verschlechterung dürfte in der Tieferlegung zu suchen sein. Trotz der breiteren Bereifung fällt der cW-Wert mit 0,347 (Serie: 0,36) tendenziell aber etwas besser aus.
http://www.sportauto-online.de/supertest/raeder-ford-focus-rs-im-supertest-fronttriebler-wird-zum-porsche-schreck-3383831.html?show=2 (http://www.sportauto-online.de/supertest/raeder-ford-focus-rs-im-supertest-fronttriebler-wird-zum-porsche-schreck-3383831.html?show=2)
The Scirocco R Cup has downforce of 200 N (~ 20 kg) @ 200 km/h: :thumbsup:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1328210495_3041.jpg&hash=332b55f73f930668b0697ac10aefacf845bca123)
Stock Scirocco:
Stirnfläche (frontal area A): 2,14m²
cw-Wert (drag coefficient cd): 0,34
>> 2,14m² x 0,34 = 0,73m²
Scirocco: 0,73 m² > Golf: 0,68 -0.75 m² > S-Class: 0,65 m²
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1328210958_3041.jpg&hash=0976beb478334bdfe817587596809b420c1ea309)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1328211047_3041.jpg&hash=adafefa4b21b258555567e5087085d86e680ac59)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1327321132_3041.jpg&hash=5f24fc09094423c0a7f96469a71e02ff333e178c)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1327321691_3041.jpg&hash=370cf605466a8dae2e844518f18965d9976192c7)
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Very interesting indeed ....... :happy2:
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Do you have any pictures of the larger engine under tray?
This is a front on picture of my GTI try when on a ramp and it would be interesting to see a comparison. Also where did you get you front and rear lft figures from, and are these for the GTI or golf in general?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_4kAgpBiQyvk%2FTOQQhEMeTQI%2FAAAAAAAAAOI%2F7O6F2NbT3vM%2Fs800%2FIMAG0387.jpg&hash=b7e38876b40255698361bc91d16a09dad50203d0)
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Of course I have: :smiley:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gt.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1268522379_764.jpg&hash=32059df1020f1415a69a425229c530bef51a59b0)
part number 1K0 825 237 P
Before I added this the air was colliding with the aluminium subframe. Even my Votex wasn't
deep enough to prevent this.
Snow in the winter time was collected by the frame as well. Her a picture from a forum mate:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1293037861_14.jpg&hash=78024257b62b3beedae15e2cb25e8856b1b5c99d)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1293037892_14.jpg&hash=8baa240a141d3643bdb4237d2b573d868a7527e8)
ps:
the design of the underbody is 40 % of the total drag of a modern car !!
pps:
does anyone know this?
http://en.sachsperformance.com/sachs-race-coilover-suspensions/sportfahrwerk-audi/audi-a3/16-ab-0503/sachs-performance-gewindefahrwerk.html
:happy2:
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Does anyone know if the 'golf ball' pattern actually makes a difference?
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Does anyone know if the 'golf ball' pattern actually makes a difference?
Hard to tell. But if it doesn't VW wouldn't spend the money to sell the BluMotion variants
with that stuff.
As I said there's even more:
Nr.12 is ''Hinterachsverkleidung''. 7 - 9 is mounting hardware:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780124_3041.jpg&hash=70024c69997a63fbd4216bfe1b2920fa0a3401c8)
Nr.1 und (1) are mor kind of ''all terrain protection'':
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780224_3041.png&hash=0c7c35dff1a5dc726134247357ab17b3fd082802)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780378_3041.jpg&hash=f6cbd90c06f97943e64ba85a01b272e404167a89)
2a and 2b comes from Audi A3 and TT 8J (fwd only).
Nr.3 comes from TDI BlueMotion and is best to be used with an non-resonated exhaust.
Nr.4 is ''Hinterachsverkleidung'' from TDI Blue Motion.
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^^^^
Very interesting stuff 'bruce' :happy2:
Are you aware of this underfloor brace for the Mk5 GTI?:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4152%2F4946799829_2a1bc2a524_z.jpg&hash=7839d4a9e345585a86e98b82a92e7098e9417109)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc4%2Fhs277.snc4%2F40178_141735029193805_108841572483151_251719_4334614_n.jpg&hash=c6c5232e86962a6071b4d5a7b3a9154926dcac08)
Any good in your opinion?
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Silly Q but what does the underfloor brace do?
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Silly Q but what does the underfloor brace do?
....Stiffen. Improve turn-in? But I'm curious if any aerodynamic pro's or con's.
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Id be VERY surprised if that brace improved the aerodynamics.
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Interesting, that does look interesting. Do you have any empirical detail of the improvements in efficiency or top speed? The extra protection for the engine bay from the elements in the UK is interesting enough. The bobbles on the golf balls are designed to help it move cleanly through the air and travel further so I guess they do something similar.
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Thanx, Robin for the pics. Looks really impressive. :happy2:
I know the small braces from GT spec, but not this huge one.
Maybe it stiffens the underbody a little bit, but it won't improve aerodynamics.
It can't do any harm. So what's the price?
Id be VERY surprised if that brace improved the aerodynamics.
Yes. The former Audi A2 1.2 TDI 3L had some kind of flat aluminium under its exhaust.
This piece is sadly too small for the very large ''exhaust tunnel'' of the Mk. 5.
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Can't we make a complete aluminium sheet that bolts on the bottom for a completely flat surface...that would do the job....
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Can't we make a complete aluminium sheet that bolts on the bottom for a completely flat surface...that would do the job....
If you can effort it you may buy the flat underbody panel of the Supercopa Leon from Seat Motorsport
in Germany.
Volkswagen Motorsport / Hannover uses a similar parts under its 24h-Scirocco including a real diffusor.
Two Problems with the diffusor:
- rear lower arms
- Exhaust
Flat bottom between bothe axles will be a smaller Problem. You just have to keep in mind the heat
caused by cat and exhaust.
Easiest way to go is a large sheet of aluminium beginning after the cat and to the fuel tank. Fasten
it to the braces' threads.
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Very intelligent modifications.
That brace will do nowt, Robin. Unless they can prove me wrong..
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Very intelligent modifications.
That brace will do nowt, Robin. Unless they can prove me wrong..
and me, looks pointless. It seems to narrow to add any noticable chassis stiffness and the holes in it will nowt.
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Do You know these braces?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1293885749_14.jpg&hash=99828400cc4d8350c19f65ef1b94016b8241a1b7)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1293885785_14.jpg&hash=ca75efe598557babb6ee9cd2c8d872258b7d8859)
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There's only enough space for it when there's no center exhaust or if you have a
very small c.e. like ATP or Supersprint:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780378_3041.jpg&hash=f6cbd90c06f97943e64ba85a01b272e404167a89)
(number 3 in the picture)
1K0 825 206 A - Unterbodenverkleidung links hinten
N 909 707 02 - Schnappmutter 2 x
WHT 000 713 - Sechskantbundmutter (2 x ??)
1K0 825 221 - Winkel
N 905 483 03 - Sechskantbundschraube M8
N 901 838 02- Sechskantbundmutter selbstsichernd
N 908 338 01 - Spreizmutter
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Do You know these braces?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1293885749_14.jpg&hash=99828400cc4d8350c19f65ef1b94016b8241a1b7)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1293885785_14.jpg&hash=ca75efe598557babb6ee9cd2c8d872258b7d8859)
....I don't know any of these braces. The consensus of opinion here seems to be that the Mk5 Golf chassis doesn't need stiffening braces. Obviously there wouldn't appear to be any aerodynamic improvements. I don't know enough to have formed an opinion yet.
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2a and 2b and 4, do you have partnumbers fo these and accesories?? thx :happy2:
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"4" is "Verkleidung Hinterachse" = "Hinterachsverkleidung" = rear axle cover:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1281358096_14.jpg&hash=ce58b9809e71bc88a1d968e15a07218d2ecbabbe)
Easy and quick to install !!
Part numbers for 2a and 2b will come soon, these are OEM-parts from Audi TT and A3.
Attention, all these parts at the rear do fit fwd cars only !!
@ Robin:
I know that the Golf V doesn't need additional braces. But when I saw the braces
on page 1 I'd too show You these.
:drinking:
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Very intelligent modifications.
That brace will do nowt, Robin. Unless they can prove me wrong..
me too , looks like the only thing it will do is lighten your pocket , mk5 is stiff enough for road use which 99.9% of car on here do . also "my thoughts only" if you have a mk5 really stiff on the back defeats the point of indapendant rear corners
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I guess we all agree to this. :wink:
2a & 2b:
left side: 1K0 511 539 E 5,12 €
right side: 1K0 511 540 C 5,30 €
8E0 825 267 0,44 € 4 x
Pease note: little bit tricky to fit !!
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Really interesting stuff here. I wonder if they make any difference to fuel consumption?
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Really interesting stuff here. I wonder if they make any difference to fuel consumption?
a very small amount at highway speed :wink:
Most parts are factory fitted to the eco Golf TDI blue motion, so they should make a difference.
My main motivation was reducing aerodynamic lift at the rear (~ 35 kg @ 200 km/h) for better
stability when high speed cornering. I don't like huge wings, so I went for invisible parts.
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My main motivation was reducing aerodynamic lift at the rear (~ 35 kg @ 200 km/h) for better
stability when high speed cornering. I don't like huge wings, so I went for invisible parts.
....Invisible wings, huh? But will they make your baby fly? :evilgrin:
Btw, we don't get much opportunity to enjoy autobahn high speeds in the UK :sad1:
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I'd try these one underneath my car. Any tipps for fitting them at the right place? :signLOL:
:congrats: As you see - wings add safety !! :happy2:
Perhabs you have more race tracks in the UK. And high speed on autobahn becomes boring in the long run.
Safety and noise emission regulations make it hard to in germany to converse former airbases to race tracks.
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Does anyone know if the 'golf ball' pattern actually makes a difference?
The dimples do make an improvement aerodynamically, primarily by inducing a lowering of the drag coefficient by improving the Reynold's number:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_3b3RMRFwqU0%2FSV1f3KgCAEI%2FAAAAAAAAAhI%2FDnUCcBt4RKs%2Fs320%2Fgolf_ball_dimples&hash=70e96ecb9ec16dfe372f630c910c14bac6777127)
As a note, maybe 10-15% of an "eco" car's efficiency gains are from improved aerodynamics on the underside.
Remember though that increases in aerodynamic downforce also result in increases in drag, making the vehicle less efficient and and reducing vmax.
I saw a few years ago on one of the American forums someone had fitted an undertray and a crude diffuser which he said improved high-speed stability; something which is entirely plausible, but which lacked any form of quantiative testing.
Undertrays designed to reduce drag will not, in my opinion, improve high-speed stability.
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^^^^
Still pissing excellence I see, Neo!
Now stop all that and get on progressing the LED tails project :laugh: :evilgrin: :wink: [I got your txt -Ta]
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Thanks for the pic. :happy2:
Remember though that increases in aerodynamic downforce also result in increases in drag,
making the vehicle less efficient and and reducing vmax.
.....
Undertrays designed to reduce drag will not, in my opinion, improve high-speed stability.
Yes, but we talk about reducing our Golfs' lift. There's no chance for real downforce. :wink:
These undertray parts reduce turbulences and these tubulences cause both - drag and lift.
A smoother undertray helps getting a laminar air stream. The smoother, the faster the air
will pass the car's underbottom. The faster the air, the less drag and lift.
Just advantages, no problems. Just my 2 cents. :happy2:
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A very interesting thread. :smiley: :drinking:
After spending ages/money and many gallons on waxoyling my mk6 adding all these aero covers would just add to the protection. :happy2:
I was disapointed in the standard engine bay cover of the mk6. :ashamed:
Apart from number (3) at the rear until i change the exhaust i think i can fit them all to my car?
The engine cover im not sure about from the photo as the mk6 has triangular bits that stick down at the sides screwed to the front bumper, that also support the inner front wheel arch covers and the engine undertray in place. Is the mk5 the same?
Does anyone have a full list of the parts needed for all these modification and some guide prices in the UK?
Thanks for a great thread that really interests me
Geoff. :smiley:
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Does anyone have a full list of the parts needed for all these modification and some guide prices in the UK?
....Does this info bruce posted earlier in the thread help?:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1281358096_14.jpg&hash=ce58b9809e71bc88a1d968e15a07218d2ecbabbe)
^ Are these part #s common to UK?
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I was disapointed in the standard engine bay cover of the mk6. :ashamed:
Apart from number (3) at the rear until i change the exhaust i think i can fit them all to my car?
Hello Geoff,
yes, part #3 will fit only if there's a smaller center exhaust (like Eisenmann or Supersprint)
or no center exhaust (like TDI or the Scirocco R) or you have an non-resonated system.
The engine bay cover and all the other parts do fit the Mk.VI as well. I know Golf VI owners
that did this mod. And the pic with the numbers shows a Golf VI 2.0 TDI.
There are many parts. But just the larger parts front and rear in my list (that Robin posted)
are really easy to fit. So they're recommended.
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Thank you. :drinking:
Are there any other covers i could also use under there that would add to protection ?
Complicated to fit is not a problem, i use to work in the motor trade and have full garage facilities (lifts etc) of my own.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gt.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1268522379_764.jpg&hash=32059df1020f1415a69a425229c530bef51a59b0)
Sorry to be such a pain. The sides of the new undertray to its sides looks like the bottoms of the inner wheel arches not connected to anything? Im guessing this is part way through fitting and its just lower as it looks that way and its not a different fitment? Its that long since i looked at the front of mine and been under too many other VAGproducts since to remember correctly :ashamed:
Just want to make sure before i contact TPS to order the parts. :smiley:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780378_3041.jpg&hash=f6cbd90c06f97943e64ba85a01b272e404167a89)
2a and 2b comes from Audi A3 and TT 8J (fwd only).
Nr.3 comes from TDI BlueMotion and is best to be used with an non-resonated exhaust.
Nr.4 is ''Hinterachsverkleidung'' from TDI Blue Motion.
1a and 1b, The mk6 has triangular bits there from the factory, im not sure of the mk5, are these to make them bigger or just add to the mk5?
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gt.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1268522379_764.jpg&hash=32059df1020f1415a69a425229c530bef51a59b0)
Sorry to be such a pain. The sides of the new undertray to its sides looks like the bottoms of the inner wheel arches not connected to anything? Im guessing this is part way through fitting and its just lower as it looks that way and its not a different fitment? Its that long since i looked at the front of mine and been under too many other VAGproducts since to remember correctly :ashamed:
Just want to make sure before i contact TPS to order the parts. :smiley:
Front and sides the same (old) screws als OEM are used. No difference.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780378_3041.jpg&hash=f6cbd90c06f97943e64ba85a01b272e404167a89)
2a and 2b comes from Audi A3 and TT 8J (fwd only).
Nr.3 comes from TDI BlueMotion and is best to be used with an non-resonated exhaust.
Nr.4 is ''Hinterachsverkleidung'' from TDI Blue Motion.
1a and 1b, The mk6 has triangular bits there from the factory, im not sure of the mk5, are these to make them bigger or just add to the mk5?
The Mk.5 has them as well. But 1a and 1b are larger and cover the smaller ones perfectly.
I don't know if they fit the Mk.6.
There are protectors for the lower wishbones as well. Never seen them on my own.
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Thank you. :smiley:
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P Noise Insulation £28.84
1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 89p (need 3 according to above list)
Rear axle cover as fitted to bluemotion
1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £26.73
1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.89
N 905 483 05 Not on Stamm
N 901 838 02 Not on Stamm
Rear covers from A3 or TT
1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £5.37
1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £6.75
8E0 825 267 a spreader rivet £0.12 (need 4 so x4)
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:happy2:
:congrats:
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fitted all my parts today will see if it makes a difference
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Be interested in your findings Aaron, considering doing this myself
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^^^^
How are you guys going to avoid the placebo effect and assess the difference? I may be wrong but aren't any differences going to feel very subtle and you would need a proper wind tunnel to know the facts?
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your right robin just interested to see if it affects mpg
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.
I'm not suggesting that they won't be of benefit though - Just tricky to accurately assess. Even accurate mpg without proper monitoring equipment might be unreliable due to so many everyday driving variables, imo.
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Very true but I drive the same road at the same time with no traffic everyday will let you know tommorow
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Needs some CFD. Anyone got a laser scanner?
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fitted all my parts today will see if it makes a difference
Have i listed all the parts i need? Or have i missed any? :smiley:
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fitted all my parts today will see if it makes a difference
Have i listed all the parts i need? Or have i missed any? :smiley:
spot on mate :happy2:
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Very true but I drive the same road at the same time with no traffic everyday will let you know tommorow
Any news on the repercussions of fitting these parts?
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Thank you. :smiley:
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P Noise Insulation £28.84
1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 89p (need 3 according to above list)
Rear axle cover as fitted to bluemotion
1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £26.73
1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.89
N 905 483 05 Not on Stamm
N 901 838 02 Not on Stamm
Rear covers from A3 or TT
1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £5.37
1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £6.75
8E0 825 267 a spreader rivet £0.12 (need 4 so x4)
What does the rivet go into, that would worry me a bit! (just dont trust myself) and how easy would these parts be to fit on axle stands on a drive as I dont have the luxury of a ramp :sad1:
Also any feedback Aaron?
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Had mine on axle stands today for something else and to me it looks like the rivet fits in a hole on the arm thats easy accessable with the wheel off. :smiley:
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Thank you. :smiley:
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P Noise Insulation £28.84
1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 89p (need 3 according to above list)
Rear axle cover as fitted to bluemotion
1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £26.73
1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.89
N 905 483 05 Not on Stamm
N 901 838 02 Not on Stamm
Rear covers from A3 or TT
1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £5.37
1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £6.75
8E0 825 267 a spreader rivet £0.12 (need 4 so x4)
What does the rivet go into, that would worry me a bit! (just dont trust myself) and how easy would these parts be to fit on axle stands on a drive as I dont have the luxury of a ramp :sad1:
Also any feedback Aaron?
hi sorry for no reply oops
not noticed any difference in consupmtion easy enough to fit on axle stands , the rivets are plastic nd when rear stone guards are fitted the go through the guard and suspension arm and splay out
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Anyone know what the two parts for the axle cover are that i could not find?
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Is a fixing kit you dot need to use It though just use some self tapping bolts m8 thread
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I had the bolts from VW, but don't hesitate and use some standard ones.
Just take care it's zink plated or similar.
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I had the bolts from VW, but don't hesitate and use some standard ones.
Just take care it's zink plated or similar.
....I think stainless steel bolts would probably be best of all.
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Of course, feel free to use stainless.
First I wrote ''stainless'', but I changed it for ''Zink plated or similar'' before clicking the button. :signLOL:
I try to avoid shiny bolts on, in and under the car (with the exception of exhaust).
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I try to avoid shiny bolts on, in and under the car (with the exception of exhaust).
....Any particular reason?
My thinking would be to achieve the best durability. Titanium might be rather expensive!
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hi sorry for no reply oops
not noticed any difference in consupmtion easy enough to fit on axle stands , the rivets are plastic nd when rear stone guards are fitted the go through the guard and suspension arm and splay out
Not even at mototrway speeds? hmm maybe there is somethign else about the GTI that affects the airflow like the front splitter making the air turbulent at the front removing the effectiveness of the smoother under-body.... :confused:
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I try to avoid shiny bolts on, in and under the car (with the exception of exhaust).
....Any particular reason?
My thinking would be to achieve the best durability. Titanium might be rather expensive!
The only reason is that I like to have it looking OEM where possible. :wink:
Titanium bolts would be nice, not too expensive when standard M8 and no too hard
to get, but are there any benefits at this place?
We should save weight where it counts: at the front, so a carbon bonnet and placing
the battery in the rear will make a remarkable difference for example.
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The only reason is that I like to have it looking OEM where possible. :wink:
Titanium bolts would be nice, not too expensive when standard M8 and no too hard
to get, but are there any benefits at this place?
We should save weight where it counts: at the front, so a carbon bonnet and placing
the battery in the rear will make a remarkable difference for example.
....Well, I've got the carbon bonnet and might consider carbon wings but too much hassle to move the battery to the boot. Also, too much hassle to keep having to recharge a compact lightweight battery alternative.
You can see that my car is well beyond looking OEM although I do like to kid myself that it's kind of OEM Plus.
To be honest, so far I'm not convinced that the underside aerodynamic parts being discussed are of any real benefit at all apart from perhaps protection.
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Well, I like my coil over, my ARBs, my wheels and so on much more,
but these underside parts are some bit cheaper, Robin.
Placing the battery isn't easy, I know. There is a nice place for the
battery in the rear in the 4-motion models that we sadly don't have.
That's why I replaced my spare wheel with the compressor kit. One
more reason: saving little weight.
Second is the cabling. Using OEM cables is very expensive.
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Well, I like my coil over, my ARBs, my wheels and so on much more,
but these underside parts are some bit cheaper, Robin.
Cheaper yes, but what benefits do these aero underbits actually have in reality? - Did you read cmdrfire's reply about downforce and diffusion?
Placing the battery isn't easy, I know. There is a nice place for the
battery in the rear in the 4-motion models that we sadly don't have.
That's why I replaced my spare wheel with the compressor kit. One
more reason: saving little weight.
Second is the cabling. Using OEM cables is very expensive.
....Personally, even though some of my mods have saved weight, I'm not on a mission to save weight. If I really wanted to save overall weight I'd do at least a partial strip out. And I certainly don't want to compromise my load carrying ability.
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If you want to save weight, don't buy a Golf...
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Is a fixing kit you dot need to use It though just use some self tapping bolts m8 thread
I had the bolts from VW, but don't hesitate and use some standard ones.
Just take care it's zink plated or similar.
....I think stainless steel bolts would probably be best of all.
I try to avoid shiny bolts on, in and under the car (with the exception of exhaust).
....Any particular reason?
My thinking would be to achieve the best durability. Titanium might be rather expensive!
Thanks guys. I will use stainless steel bolts as we use loads of them at work so they are easy for me to get a hold of. Plus the underside of my car has loads of waxoyl on so there shinyness will not show after i do them too.
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Cheaper yes, but what benefits do these aero underbits actually have in reality? - Did you read cmdrfire's reply about downforce and diffusion?
This one?
As a note, maybe 10-15% of an "eco" car's efficiency gains are from improved aerodynamics on the underside.
Remember though that increases in aerodynamic downforce also result in increases in drag, making the vehicle less efficient and and reducing vmax.
Undertrays designed to reduce drag will not, in my opinion, improve high-speed stability.
I don't agree with this.
The stock underside of the GTI creates both, drag and lift.
But before explaning the reasons in bad English it would be easier you read some
scientific material. I've read the very most of it:
http://www.informaworld.com/index/780901753.pdf
http://elib.tu-darmstadt.de/tocs/133153142.pdf
http://www.buecher.de/shop/dynamik/aerodynamik-des-automobils/hucho-wolf-heinrich-hrsg-/products_products/detail/prod_id/14466476/
http://www.atzonline.de/Fachmedien/Buecher/4/132/Aerodynamik-des-Automobils.html
http://libros-en-pdf.com/descargar/aerodynamik-des-automobils-3.html
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/4588253/4601965/04602075.pdf?arnumber=4602075
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,673321,00.html
http://www.fl-automobil.de/page-m_ge_die_kraft_Was_ist_Abtrieb-12.phtml
Feel free to find even more of this stuff in English. The conclusion will be the same:
A flat underside will always reduce drag and lift. Believe me. :wink:
Without a wind tunnel we cannot state the amount of improvement but it it will be
an improvement. Flatter is better in this area.
We cannot exactly state the resulting lift front and rear (but I promise at 200 km/h
it's around 0 front and 250 N rear). No downforce of course, but better than stock.
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^^^^
Crikey! That's an awful lot of bedtime reading!
Unfortunately, in this country we don't get so many opportunities to reach 200 km/h.
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That is a lot of reading! might help pass the friday afternoon at work :wink: I havent read any of it yet but my understanding is that the Aero drag only starts becoming affective from 60+ mph and increases exponentially (or at least in a non-linear fashion) beyond that point. For example if you double the speed you will increase drag or wind resistance by a factor of 4 or greater.
So these modifications would only provide any benefit at motorway speeds in the UK or track use, but even if you get a 10-15% reduction in drag this could result in a 10% reduction in fuel use at 70mph that could equate to a 3mpg decrease in consumption, but with the in-efficiencies of the combustion engine to use the chemical energy in fuel into kinetic energy in the car (read something this morning that said about 60% wastage of energy - heat, noise, un-burnt hydrocarbons) you might just save enough to cancel out the resistance of your air-con pump! :signLOL:
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As I said at the beginning: don't expect too much. :wink:
Imho this package is practical:
- lowering by springs oder coilover
- VWR- or Votex lip or similar
- Zender winglip or Mk VI rear spoiler
- undertray parts
The undertray is just one aspect of the story.
cw x A may be reduced from 0.72 to 0.68 I bet.
Btw, the most helpful mod ist dropping the the car. :wink:
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Yeah I dont want to lower my car as for my usage standard is more than adequate and would just be for show, yet I imagine that lowering and fitting a lip that forces the air around the car rather than under will significantly reduce the drag, I know the VWR lip they run on their race cars states this as its main use, for me doing this mod would be about a small improvement in fuel efficiency at motorway speeds, as unfortunately thats my main use of the car travelling off at weekends around the country.
-
Ok:
- lowering by springs oder coilover
- VWR- or Votex lip or similar
- Zender winglip or Mk VI rear spoiler
- undertray parts
-
Ok:
- lowering by springs oder coilover
- VWR- or Votex lip or similar
- Zender winglip or Mk VI rear spoiler
- undertray parts
Yeah those would be the possibilities.
Out of interest Bruce what sort of mpg or km/l do you get at 130kph with your aero mods if you know.
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Is there a stock solution to combining the handbrake cable guide with the stone guards? I have the guards, and have offered them up to the trailing arm, noting the clash with the cable guide. Presumably there is an audi part that works with the guard.
-
Think Audis do not have this part.
I'd like to have a look under a A3 or TT (FWD).
Ric, I don't know. But some mates report of a reduction of 0.2 - 0.4 l / 100 km.
Maybe this seems to much, but that's what they told me.
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http://www.wagenstad.com/index.php?modid=231&page=8-825-15
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Think Audis do not have this part.
I'd like to have a look under a A3 or TT (FWD).
Ric, I don't know. But some mates report of a reduction of 0.2 - 0.4 l / 100 km.
Maybe this seems to much, but that's what they told me.
Thanks Bruce that seems about 8-10% which over a tank could be 30-40 miles so not insignificant for the money spent on parts :smiley:
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Ric, I don't know. But some mates report of a reduction of 0.2 - 0.4 l / 100 km.
Maybe this seems to much, but that's what they told me.
Thanks Bruce that seems about 8-10% which over a tank could be 30-40 miles so not insignificant for the money spent on parts :smiley:
....I'm playing devil's advocate here rather than being a hater, but wouldn't such a fuel saving only occur on high speed, unrestricted autobahn types of journeys?
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Ric, I don't know. But some mates report of a reduction of 0.2 - 0.4 l / 100 km.
Maybe this seems to much, but that's what they told me.
Thanks Bruce that seems about 8-10% which over a tank could be 30-40 miles so not insignificant for the money spent on parts :smiley:
....I'm playing devil's advocate here rather than being a hater, but wouldn't such a fuel saving only occur on high speed, unrestricted autobahn types of journeys?
Thats why I asked for fuel saving at 130kph which is 80mph so that would be the saving on a motorway journey on the continent and roughly on a UK motorway. And dont worry about the hater thing ideas need to be challenged or we would all still be living on a flat world at the centre of the universe! :stupid:
It's the way they are challenged which is the key :drinking:
I would think you could potentially make your money back on the parts with 10k a year of 60+mph driving assuming the savings Bruce mentioned.
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2 x 1K0 609 734 C
2 x N 102 854 02
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg340.imageshack.us%2Fimg340%2F4338%2F003yuz.jpg&hash=594bb33da05355657c23ace2336876ebd9a834a0)
:happy2: :happy2: :happy2:
For the parts 2a and 2b in the picture below (from A3 and TT) it will be best
to use the parts from above to fix the brake cable.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780378_3041.jpg&hash=f6cbd90c06f97943e64ba85a01b272e404167a89)
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The idea of aerodynamics improvement is good but I have to say that I a bit concerned with this panel closing all the sub engine bay.
Not because of oil temp. As cooling through the oil sump is minimal.
But what about eat released by the turbo and all the devises around it when runnig flat out as you have enclosed the engine bay and that air can't cool down behind the engine any more.
Ok there is a naca but it look rather small and desinged for a 110 Hp Bluemotion diesel car, not for 200Hp /350Hp benzine sporty car.
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The Octavia vRS's come with the full length undertray as standard.
As another example, the Leon Supacopa cars run a full length undertray and have no issues running 330bhp round a race track at full pelt. Our GT3 Gallardo's also run a full length undertray with the only holes being for the air jacks. They run 3 hour races with no heat issues.
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Thanks, Alex, for the information. :happy2:
Laurent, I had the same doubts like you for a long time and so
I fitted the engine bay panel last. When I started this mod more
than two years ago I first wanted to reduce the lift at the rear.
Then I have seen that the A3 3.2 has the same panel from factory
(and probably the R32 as well). So does Audi on all TT including
TT-S and TT-RS (a different one but similar completely closed).
Furthermore I talked with Benny at Raeder Motorsport and he
told me they use it on their A3 TFSI as well.
The Leon Supercopa and the very familar Scirocco GT24 even
have a completely closed and flat underbottom from front to rear.
Last, not least:
The air entering from front radiators now has only a few definated
ways to leave the engine bay passing the turbo charger to the
center tunnel.
I'd presume there will pass very few air to the wheel fenders because
there should be a high pressure area.
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Thanks guys!!
I was wondering but I feel reassured thanks to your further explanations and experiences. I missed those points.
I will go today to order 4, 3 (i don't know if it will fit because of my Resonated Milltek) and the undertray.
But about undertray, I don't know which one to order as ther is many of them.
Do you know if lastest S3 have also theis long undertray?
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Ok I just found out on ETKA that 1K0 825 237 P is the same ref for 3.2 A3 so A3/golf have the same shape.
May be it's what you mentioned but I didn't get it.
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Right. It's the same. Only TT is different.
Another thing:
The inner plastic fender is different Golf and A3 as you may know.
The Golf's one has brake ventilation, the A3's not.
I have cut '3' a little bit to fit the stock center muffler, but with the
smaller Supersprint I have now it would have fit without any
modification. I guess the Milltek res. is more like OEM in it's shape.
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The Bruce does 1K0 825 235 AB is the same. I found your german Scirocco thread I understood it is what you mention but I'm not sure I get it right.
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I'd go for 237 P again. :wink:
- Golf ball pattern
- 3rd NACA
- cheap
Don't forget the three metric screws. First clean the threads in the subframe.
Sometimes it will be neccessary to drill/cut the threads a bit.
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I just come back from Audi dealer!!
Ordered:
A3 3.2 undertray 1K0 825 237 P
Tank deflector 1K0 501 713 D
Rear muffler deflector 1K0 825 206 A
And all the necessary screws, at least I think.
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.
How much does all this undercarriage weigh?
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I never read of somebody posting the weights of these parts and I didn't
do this by myself, Robin.
The only chance: Laurent will do this job for us. :wink:
- first the new parts
- after modification the old small engine cover
But I don't really care about this because it's very low positioned and this
stuff is just fibre reinforced plastic.
The engine bay cover is very thin though. And the rear parts don't do any
harm from the 'dynamics' view (unless acceleration).
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I'll weigh new parts and old parts for you.
But I don't think it's very heavy.
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^^^^
Cheers :drinking:
The actual weights aren't too important if the all materials are very light. I was thinking that they might be heavier than the materials you mention - It looks like quite a lot in the photo.
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I have the parts right here and the would need some sort of weightsaving elsewhere to be compensated for RR. CF for example :jumping: :booty:
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Robin it weight is next to nothing. I have removed similar parts on other VW cars including a mk6 TDI and theres not a much difference between whats there on a GTI and whats new. It looks alot bigger in the photos compared when you see them underneath. Its a mk5 anyway so a heavy car and a couple of Lbs makes little difference down there. I will simply goto the toilet and deposit the difference before i go for a critical drive :P
I just come back from Audi dealer!!
Ordered:
A3 3.2 undertray 1K0 825 237 P
Tank deflector 1K0 501 713 D
Rear muffler deflector 1K0 825 206 A
And all the necessary screws, at least I think.
This is what i ordered just not had time to go pick it up from a mate who collected it for me.
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P Noise Insulation £28.84
1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 89p (need 3 according to above list)
Rear axle cover as fitted to bluemotion
1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £26.73
1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.89
N 905 483 05 Not on Stamm
N 901 838 02 Not on Stamm
Rear covers from A3 or TT
1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £5.37
1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £6.75
8E0 825 267 a spreader rivet £0.12 (need 4 so x4)
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I have the parts right here and the would need some sort of weightsaving elsewhere to be compensated for RR. CF for example :jumping: :booty:
....You weren't thinking of CF wings by any chance were you, Jake? :laugh: (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2Fwavefinger.gif&hash=c345ad848f8707e75487bd5fc7e0be3e0510b14d)
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This is what i ordered just not had time to go pick it up from a mate who collected it for me.
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P Noise Insulation £28.84
....Not for me!!
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This is what i ordered just not had time to go pick it up from a mate who collected it for me.
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P Noise Insulation £28.84
....Not for me!!
Thats just the name in ETKA for the undertray. I don't like the way the sump is open to the eliments and so corrosion. I have a VW sump on a 6 year old car to replace this coming weekend partly imo because its had the open undertray and has suffered with weather so rotted. My GTI has a screwed on sensor right on the bottom of the sump last thing i want is having to replace it as well as the sump in coming years. The undertray will help keep the engine bay area more free from salt etc.
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This is what i ordered just not had time to go pick it up from a mate who collected it for me.
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P Noise Insulation £28.84
....Not for me!!
Thats just the name in ETKA for the undertray. I don't like the way the sump is open to the eliments and so corrosion. I have a VW sump on a 6 year old car to replace this coming weekend partly imo because its had the open undertray and has suffered with weather so rotted. My GTI has a screwed on sensor right on the bottom of the sump last thing i want is having to replace it as well as the sump in coming years. The undertray will help keep the engine bay area more free from salt etc.
....sh*t!! I think you've just sold me on getting just this undertray (and the 3 fixing bolts - only 3?)
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Just 3 extra bolts as it uses the other 8 of the standard undertray.
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^^^^
I don't know why I've just clicked you a Thank You, Geoff - You just cost me another 30 squid!
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^^^^
I don't know why I've just clicked you a Thank You, Geoff - You just cost me another 30 squid!
The mk5 GTI maybe fine, i don't know without looking under some of them on how there doing but a 1.4 16V we have owned from new is suffered and has a slight weep from the bottom of the sump.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb361%2Fflogitg%2FForum%2520photos%2FPhoto-0309.jpg&hash=486c3ca1b5bbab8e4f8cad27dc29525688d89a15)
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So that's why we own a Mk.V/EA113 with a cast aluminium sump and no
cheap Mk.VI/EA888 with the poor steel one !!
:grin:
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So that's why we own a Mk.V/EA113 with a cast aluminium sump (with doddy belt tensioner, expensive belt changes, rusty wheel arches and sills) and no
cheap Mk.VI/EA888 with the poor steel one !!
:grin:
Corrected for you :P
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.
Does the extra undertray reduce the ground clearance by much? It's a bit critical on my car's setup.
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.
Does the extra undertray reduce the ground clearance by much? It's a bit critical on my car's setup.
Nope, it just follows the lines of the old one :happy2:
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I was just about to say similar, you can see it on page one and looking under a TDI today at work its the same lines just covers back to the subframe.
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^^^^
@ Jake and Geoff:
You're not helping me find reasons not to buy one! :P
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Robin, don't go for it - you save 100 gr !! :P
Snoopy, when my GTI will need a new belt I will not care about,
the 2nd owner may do this. So belt spanner or clunky chain . . .
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Next thing is RR going for the 4 wheel conversion, if just we can convince him that he'll save weight in the process :grin:
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http://www.viper67.de/der-r-in-rising-blue/die-technik/
:happy2:
ps
saving weight:
http://faktor.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43&Itemid=39
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I fixed the parts ...at least some of them.
Under tray is just straight forward.
Tank deflector. I needed to drill the subframe to fix on the left.
Mufler deflector. I couldn't fit it even though I cuted some part of it to let some room for the mufler, but I have still some problem with the arm deflector (2a) which is on the way. May be I didn't fit it at the good place. Because compare to the picture, it seems more outward on my car...
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I forgot to give you parts weight.
Small under tray 800 g
Big under tray 1,5 kg
Tank deflector 500 g
Mufler deflector 700 g
So if you fit all the parts it adds 1,9 kg
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Covers for the suspension arms are
Stone guard track control arm 1k0 511 533 D left side
Stone guard track control arm 1k0 511 534 D right side
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Small under tray 800 g
Big under tray 1,5 kg
Tank deflector 500 g
Mufler deflector 700 g
So if you fit all the parts it adds 1,9 kg
:happy2:
So 700 g more front and 1200 g rear.
Pardon me thar I forgot the little thread at the subframe. Older Golf/A3 don't have it.
There are many ways retrofitting it. Welding, drilling or just a using an exhaust clamp.
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Im still got to go pick mine up but i was wondering how the bracket on the other side of the axle cover (4) fits. :ashamed:
Im also guessing 2a and 2b are just held on with 2 plastic rivets each?
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Yes, just two plastic 'rivets' for 2a and 2b. No prob this winter (had plenty of snow).
I was wonderung one minute about the bracket as well. But there's just one way.
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Two more pics:
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Thank you 'the bruce' for all the help and info.
I got round to fitting the bits to the mk6 this morning after been messed about by TPS for months :confused:
The engine undertray hit the sump at first until i left it sitting all morning with bricks on it to bend it alittle :confused:
As the cover seemed to curve up in the middle rather than down or be straight as can be seen comparing mine to the photo on page one :confused:
Must just be a bad panel, just hope it does not spring back up and rest on the sump.
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The bluemotion deflector was an easy fit.
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The TT arm deflectors were a bit more work as i had to remove the oem large plastic handbrake cable holder (as can be seen in the above photo) which took some doing and replace it with those little metal clips suggested.
:happy2:
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:happy2:
Yes, the engine undertray panels seem to have huge tolerances.
Mine is warped as well. Bending with heavy bits and warming it for
a couple of hours ist a good idea.
You replaced some acousting damping under the fenders as well?
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Yes. These are the 2011 spec acousting damping 'foams' they have a rubber type coating that my 2010 model ones don't.
My 2010 verstion soak up water like a sponge so i ordered replacments as VW said that mine were normal!
Just for info the other things shown on my first photo are the S3 lift pads.
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Do you have the part numbers?
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Covers for the suspension arms are
Stone guard track control arm 1k0 511 533 D left side
Stone guard track control arm 1k0 511 534 D right side
Snoopy, these part numbers are different than the ones in the previous list you put together, just wondered if there was a reason?
previous part number suggested
Rear covers from A3 or TT
1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £5.37
1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £6.75
8E0 825 267 a spreader rivet £0.12 (need 4 so x4)
And to complete the job if I order this little lot I will have everything needed to install these bits!
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Its a different cover. 533/534 are stone guard covers that fit over the arm the suspension spring is sitting in.
I have not fitted these yet but may do in the future. If im truthful i forgot about them :grin:
Heres the list of parts i got with current UK prices.
Part numbers with RRP Prices exc VAT
Full VW Golf Engine under tray
(x1) 1K0 825 237 P Undertray £26.24
(x3) 1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 80p each
Rear axle cover as fitted to VW Golf bluemotion
(x1) 1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £25.03
(x1) 1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.67
(x1) N 905 483 05 Retaining bolt 47p
(x1) N 901 838 02 Retaining bolt £1.63
Rear arm covers from Audi TT
(x1) 1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £4.69
(x1) 1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £5.91
(x4) 8E0 825 267 A spreader rivet 10p each
(x2) 1K0 609 734 C brake cable clamp 76p each
(x2) N 102 854 02 Bolt 18p each
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Its a different cover. 533/534 are stone guard covers that fit over the arm the spring is sitting in.
I have not fitted these yet but may do in the future. If im truthful i forgot about them :grin:
Heres the list of parts i got with current UK prices.
Part numbers with RRP Prices exc VAT
Full VW Golf Engine under tray
(x1) 1K0 825 237 P Undertray £26.24
(x3) 1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 80p each
Rear axle cover as fitted to VW Golf bluemotion
(x1) 1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £25.03
(x1) 1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.67
(x1) N 905 483 05 Retaining bolt 47p
(x1) N 901 838 02 Retaining bolt £1.63
Rear arm covers from Audi TT
(x1) 1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £4.69
(x1) 1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £5.91
(x4) 8E0 825 267 A spreader rivet 10p each
(x2) 1K0 609 734 C brake cable clamp 76p each
(x2) N 102 854 02 Bolt 18p each
Thank you very much Snoopy! :drinking:
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1K0 501 713 D So the parts dealer tells me there are none of these anywhere in the country! or at any dealer, is there an alternative revision that I can use for instance has the D been replaced with an E part hence why I can get this one? Need to order it at midday to get it in for tomorrow and I dont have ETKA :scared:
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Mine had to be put on back order but it came in no time at all.
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Cheers Snoopy, have all the bit ordered had to go to Audi for the grit guard on the rear arms but Camberley had them in stock, and have the axle cover on back order from the factory! Will see how fitting all goes over the weekend. :party:
Have you done any motorway driving since having it fitted? was it quieter or better fuel consumption.?
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No not done any yet except 32 miles round trip commute to work which is mainly 30mph limits.
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My engine undertray is bent as well but it almost looks like its meant to be that way as it hasnt creased the edges, I suppose it was impossible to tell if it cleared the sump once fitted? Now that I have it all it doesnt look like much will have to see how fitting it all goes :laugh:
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You can tell if it hits by pushing it, or when fitting you hear it hit as you go to fit the rear bolts in.
Mines coming off tonight to try and heat it and refit it next weekend.
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interesting read :pomppomp:
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So yesterday I gave the car a service oil and filter and then proceeded to fit all the aero parts, was all relatively easy only issue I had was not being able to get the car too far off the ground, I also found the rear grit guards very tight to get on.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MLlg3oHkaFo/TivEpIcDqLI/AAAAAAAAA0k/6UeRBQ9HNvY/s640/P1030348.JPG)
comparison shot between old and new.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wHnewbTLjVw/TivE4eFpUYI/AAAAAAAAA0o/RuLLzV9oesY/s640/P1030354.JPG)
front cover fitted, I didnt bend it out and left it with the inward bump where there is no golf ball texture and from pushing upwards as snoopy said I think there is a good 10-15mm of clearance, although I imagine at speed this could be forced up on to the sump but assuming VW used thermo set plastic I dont think this would cause an issue as the under-side would be readily cooled.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-15RDczW6SKU/TivFAOtRJFI/AAAAAAAAA0s/-GwXyQgEhb0/s640/P1030363.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lD_qictN6Vs/TivFJKYuvgI/AAAAAAAAA0w/pyCTSOff89k/s640/P1030364.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bqEPh9XSl6A/TivFhLUv56I/AAAAAAAAA08/nU6XRZT5hHM/s640/P1030403.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nf6WuTPG4wo/Tiw2o3V3VzI/AAAAAAAAA1c/shRA8dQVxLU/s640/P1030411.JPG)
I also bought the 1a and 1b larger deflectors, although based on ETKA I didnt get enough screws to fit both as at the moment I only have the one installed but as the profile picture shows it almost has a significant increase in air deflection. It needs some more fixings as I didnt order the right parts :laugh:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F5sVuQ9cWaU/TivFX1htJ8I/AAAAAAAAA00/rRev1FXTQGY/s640/P1030397.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ylzKCel2etk/TivFeU5lI1I/AAAAAAAAA04/Xx2Y3Cj70uM/s640/P1030399.JPG)
The rear grit guards were interesting to fit the trailing arm on my rear suspension (if that is the right term for it) had an extra downward nodule on it which meant I had to get under the car and really tugg on the plastic to force it along to locate the plastic rivets, I also didnt need to relocate the brake cables as they sat along the top side of the arm and I couldnt see that these additions would cause them to foul at all.
So far I have only been for a short drive but will be going on a hour 45 drive from glos to woking tonight so should get an idea if it has affected mpg at all, one of my initial thoughts while pootling along was that road noise was reduced but again this should be more evident at faster speeds, I will also be monitoring the oil and coolant temps with the polar display, I could do with DSG temp as well but it might be all the excuse I need for some open front fog vents :wink:
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Great work matey! Think I'll try these, need to put my front one back on actually, was periodically checking for any drips or leaks after doing oil (yes Im paranoid lol) May aswell replace with the longer front one :innocent:
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Richn83
It looks like your handbrake cable is held on different to my Mk6 GTI as mine has a huge plastic clamp holding the cable which can be seen on the right of the photo below. Were as yours seems to be held on with 2 metal clips. Don't suppose you have a closer up picture of the two clips do you so i can see if i can fit the other one too.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb361%2Fflogitg%2FForum%2520photos%2Fmk6G%2FDSC01465.jpg&hash=b0da99e3e12ebb0a7ceafc7189cf278ec6a0da97)
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front cover fitted, I didnt bend it out and left it with the inward bump where there is no golf ball texture and from pushing upwards as snoopy said I think there is a good 10-15mm of clearance, although I imagine at speed this could be forced up on to the sump but assuming VW used thermo set plastic I dont think this would cause an issue as the under-side would be readily cooled.
As mines on a Mk6 rather than a mk5 maybe the sump of the mk6 EA888 engine is abit lower than the Mk5 engine? As mines been rubbing the sump this past week as i can see the marks.
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I see, so the clips I got to fit it match my existing ones some spare for it they ever need replacing. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the rear axle cover soon, did you fit the larger lumps that cover the end of the long panels?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nf6WuTPG4wo/Tiw2o3V3VzI/AAAAAAAAA1c/shRA8dQVxLU/s640/P1030411.JPG)
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No i didn't as the mk6 ones looked bigger and slightly different to the mk5 so i was not sure if they would fit.
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Ok, probably an evolution towards better fuel efficiency anyway. If you want any pics of the trim let me now its fairly open inside.
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nf6WuTPG4wo/Tiw2o3V3VzI/AAAAAAAAA1c/shRA8dQVxLU/s640/P1030411.JPG)
Guess these don't fit the Mark VI that have the ''toothed'' spoilers at this place.
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Right well I have just driven 90 miles of motorway with the new Aero, a couple of things that I notice is that the car has a significant reduction in road noise making motorway miles more enjoyable and I can hear the exhaust and engine better as thats the main noise coming through the bulk head not road noise and wind noise.
The car also felt more eager to accelerate at speed and cruised down better it wasnt dramatic but definitely there. The oil temps were up a few degrees from 88-89 degress before to 92 degress max water temps were the same.
And the important part from my perspective the mpg the figures looked better the averages ended on 36mpg I was sat at 70 mph on cruise (76 on clocks, corrected speed from polar was 70) but if anyone knows the road out of gloucester towards swindon you will know that the road up past the air ballon isnt kind to mpg! The most interesting thing is the range which speaks volumes, I filled up in brockworth on vpower did 90 miles and the range remaining was 355 miles, so from a normal tank doing me 360 on the range tank I am now able to expect 440 miles at motorway speeds!
So it did everything that I expected it too 10-15% improvement (could be more if you didnt have a seriously long and heavy hill at the start) and I still have two more parts to fit. And it has made the car quieter at all speeds making it a nicer place to be so I would say a very well worth modification. Thanks to The Bruce for bringing it to our attention :congrats:
And of course some proof :jumpmove:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HFYPHqdZTh0/Tix6gsCfJLI/AAAAAAAAA2I/2mydLN5z30M/s800/IMAG0010.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YoqDVW7A_Rs/Tix6YOzZfRI/AAAAAAAAA18/MSgX2m6P5LY/s800/IMAG0015.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9CLq0imLkQg/Tix6PVfnd_I/AAAAAAAAA1w/UACm6pcXe6E/s800/IMAG0016.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OSyxHkzMBV8/Tix6ZjPjDeI/AAAAAAAAA2A/dI-xYpp8_tw/s800/IMAG0014.jpg)
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Result :) Im going to get the front one and two triangles tommorow morning. My measurements arent as accurate but I know the usual Avg Mpg and I have a super long journey (Motorway) on Friday :indifferent:
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try and grab the rear arm covers too stone grit guards its all very easy to fit and if your driving all the way from germany to doncaster you could cover the cost of doing it all!
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If I take a pic of my existing front guard could you compare where the holes are to see if fitment is the same for the Leon?
Or do you have a pic of the Golf old front guard?
Have duty transport from the medcentre at the end of the street to Paderborn Hospital for a scan in the morning :jumping:, cant wait to see the German civvy drivers face when I ask him to de tour to VW & Audi on the way home :P
:drinking:
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Also, have I missed the p/n for the 2 audi rear ones or have I got p/n dyslexia? lol
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I dont think they are on the thread will dig them out and send them to you tomorrow mike.
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I guess we all agree to this. :wink:
2a & 2b:
left side: 1K0 511 539 E 5,12 €
right side: 1K0 511 540 C 5,30 €
8E0 825 267 0,44 € 4 x
Pease note: little bit tricky to fit !!
Think these are them...
-
I guess we all agree to this. :wink:
2a & 2b:
left side: 1K0 511 539 E 5,12 €
right side: 1K0 511 540 C 5,30 €
8E0 825 267 0,44 € 4 x
Pease note: little bit tricky to fit !!
Think these are them...
Also, wonder if I would be much over 50€ as I get tax free over 50 bucks
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Thats for the rear arm stone guards mike, the little lumps are these:
Extra lumps 1K0 825 001 B x1
1K0 825 002 B x1
N 909 591 01 fixing kit x4
N 103 546 02 fixing kit x10
the 4 are little push on metal clips to allow the screws to thread into (like you see to hold speakers in place, and 10 are scews with washers. The lumps are about £5 each
This is the rest of what I ordered
Full VW Golf Engine under tray
(x1) 1K0 825 237 P Undertray £26.24
(x3) 1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 80p each M6X20 hex socket head bolt
Rear axle cover as fitted to VW Golf bluemotion
(x1) 1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £25.03 3C0 501 713
(x1) 1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.67
(x1) N 905 483 05 Retaining bolt 47p
(x1) N 901 838 02 Retaining bolt £1.63
Rear arm covers from Audi TT
(x1) 1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £4.69
(x1) 1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £5.91
(x4) 8E0 825 267 A spreader rivet 10p each
(x2) 1K0 609 734 C brake cable clamp 76p each
(x2) N 102 854 02 Bolt 18p each
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Right so Ive come away from the dealer with no parts (collect tommorow) and 61euros poorer. Part numbers to follow.
Point to note is the Audi part numbers were available to order.
Got a feeling from your post above Im going to be short of a few clips and screws :(
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Ordered these;
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fo56%2F2968Gsi_Mike%2Faeromods.jpg&hash=bdbfdeffff291b4f16d9fd59701d7b576fef3c89)
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When you go back tomorrow you will need these to fit them all:
N 909 591 01 fixing kit x4
N 103 546 02 fixing kit x10
(x3) 1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 80p each M6X20 hex socket head bolt
(x4) 8E0 825 267 A spreader rivet 10p each
you might also need these depending if your rear brake cables are on the top of the rear arms or in the middle like snoopys were.
(x2) 1K0 609 734 C brake cable clamp 76p each
(x2) N 102 854 02 Bolt 18p each
you will only need 4 of the 8E0 spreader rivets not 10 unless thats a random number of fixers.
The 3 bolts are for the main engine tray and hold the rear on the subframe (that holds the bottom engine mount.) the rest of the screws will be holding the existing engine cover in place. did you see the comparison picture of the new and old engine cover did it answer your question above?
With your car being lowered you might see a better improvement as well than mine as you allow less air under the car and having a smaller gap between the car and the ground helps you achieve a better clean flow of air.
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Yeah, that's the list I made too, minus the spreader rivet as had 4 in my head doubled it for both sides and rounded upto 10 for safe measure lol.
If they weren't 9 cents each I might have thought to myself, superglue? :signLOL:
Job for tomorrow :smiley:
Thanks again Rich
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Thanks to The Bruce for bringing it to our attention :congrats:
Thanks for ''proving the improvement'' !! :happy2:
. . . to Paderborn Hospital . . .
Was just guessing you are near this rainy town (where I was born 42 years ago). :wink:
-
Thanks to The Bruce for bringing it to our attention :congrats:
Thanks for ''proving the improvement'' !! :happy2:
. . . to Paderborn Hospital . . .
Was just guessing you are near his rainy town (where I was born 42 years ago). :wink:
Small world! Pad Brat? Live in Detmold, work in Paderborn :drinking:
-
Picked up the screws and clips from Vw Detmold this morning Woooo, exciting times :signLOL:
Get the underbody trays later from Vw Paderborn.
Question is do I do the mods in the damp, between showers :sick:
-
You will get wet if you do that question is will it stop raining before Friday! or will it get worse the showers now might be better than doing it during a downpour on Thursday :evilgrin:
-
Picked up the screws and clips from Vw Detmold this morning Woooo, exciting times :signLOL:
Get the underbody trays later from Vw Paderborn.
Question is do I do the mods in the damp, between showers :sick:
Hi Mike,
Don't know how it works nowadays but can't you get it into a REME workshop/LAD after normal hours? I think I spent most of my growing up time in this way, until the bierfests got underway at least!
Regards,
John
-
Picked up the screws and clips from Vw Detmold this morning Woooo, exciting times :signLOL:
Get the underbody trays later from Vw Paderborn.
Question is do I do the mods in the damp, between showers :sick:
Hi Mike,
Don't know how it works nowadays but can't you get it into a REME workshop/LAD after normal hours? I think I spent most of my growing up time in this way, until the bierfests got underway at least!
Regards,
John
Normally scrounging tools from our fitter section down LAD but I live an hour from work & Im on leave so dont plan on going through those gates! lol
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Small world! Pad Brat? Live in Detmold, work in Paderborn :drinking:
Right, Mike. Or at least kind of that. :drinking:
I have good memories on Sennelager and Staumühle as well.
Still have friends in Bünde near Detmold.
Question is do I do the mods in the damp, between showers :sick:
:grin:
Some years ago my uncle had a garage called ''English Sportscar'' in Paderborn.
Unfortunately this company no longer exists.
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Great thread :happy2:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMy_Leon_Cupra%2FMini_mods%2FPhoto0792.jpg&hash=b746bc70d3f228146e6acacb30e0aec27e7881a8)
Cupra Vs Bluemotion :happy2:
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Keep in mind to warm and bend it a bit to clear the oil pan! :wink:
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Keep in mind to warm and bend it a bit to clear the oil pan! :wink:
:ashamed: ooops :scared:
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Mines been sitting on bricks, with a couple of bricks in the middle in the garden in the sun for 2 days :grin:
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Mine was about 1cm clear without bending Mike so you might be alright. How did the rear stone guards go, you get the brake lines sorted eventually? And you been out for a drive yet?
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Mine was about 1cm clear without bending Mike so you might be alright. How did the rear stone guards go, you get the brake lines sorted eventually? And you been out for a drive yet?
Will see if I can feel the gap in the morning
Rear stone guards are a dead simple fit. Was just the pin holding the brake cable holder was an arse to get out. :fighting:
From your pic it doesnt look like you've fitted the metal clips & screws at (x2) at the back of the 'lumps / triangles' or was you just snap happy and pictured before finished?
Went for a quick drive to get some dog food and treats before he goes to kennels. Placebo effect or quieter, not sure lol. Are you talking about motorway speeds? I thought if may have sounded quieter but was telling myself its probably in my head :stupid:
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I made a mistake with the number of screws and fixers I needed so at the moment I have only one of the lumps held on by two screws at the front :scared: and the other is in the boot! Will get the other fixers Friday and fit all properly on the weekend.
I think at 20-30mph round town I would have to say t is quieter, but its more noticeable at higher speeds where tyre noise and wind noise start to increase.
With the gap between the sump and the under tray I pushed up in the middle and there was definately some movement, could be that mine wasnt as bent as the others but dont think you need to much.
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Excuse for a shallow sump :grin: :grin:
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Well today would be a great test to see the difference. However, the wife as filled the car with "things we need" Dead weight.
Will keep a close eye on the Avg Mpg and stick to 70 on the autobahn. I know a very sensible run to Hanover saw Avg 38, shame I havent got Highline and the Fandangle polar+ :sad1:
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Good luck with the drive Mike be interesting to see what you get on your long run! :driver:
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Rear stone guards are a dead simple fit. Was just the pin holding the brake cable holder was an arse to get out. :fighting:
From your pic it doesnt look like you've fitted the metal clips & screws at (x2) at the back of the 'lumps / triangles' or was you just snap happy and pictured before finished?
Mike
Did your rear handbrake cable guide look like mine did or was it on metal clips on the top of the arm?
Metal clip on top of the arm (mk5 golf) (middle right of the photo)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ylzKCel2etk/TivFeU5lI1I/AAAAAAAAA04/Xx2Y3Cj70uM/s640/P1030399.JPG)
Big plastic V shaped cable guide (mk6 golf) (bottom right of the photo)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb361%2Fflogitg%2FForum%2520photos%2Fmk6G%2FDSC01465.jpg&hash=b0da99e3e12ebb0a7ceafc7189cf278ec6a0da97)
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I believe his was on the plastic clip like yours.
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Anyone able to provide an ETKA exploded diagram from the rear end of the new Passat blue motion? I had a poke under one the other day and they had a half plastic half metal rear tray from the rear axle through to the back end of the body it sealed off the exhaust and right round the rear was wondering what could be done to mod it on to the GTI!
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Found just this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1312840871_3041.jpg&hash=59eff7afad0f0369f5602b479e1bfcaf1f0a9327)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1312840895_3041.jpg&hash=0c52d2f27c418742c73abf7fb6f29ab652bbb49b)
:ashamed:
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Thanks Bruce, I actually ended up with 12 instead of the rear part for the golf, it is a bit of a pain as I think it will just about foul the exhaust but plan to try fitting it once I get a second bracket and have some heat shielding I dont have a picture off it at work, but the lip up that should go up to the rear axle frame is right where the exhaust comes through.
The part 21 could well be the right part, the diagram doesnt look as big as what I saw under this car, but the diagrams arent always as up to date as the parts I guess the different PR codes might determine the size based on exhaust and saloon and estate. I need to get back under the rear end of a bluemotion and take some pics I didnt feel I could in a public car park as the owner might turn up and wonder what I am doing under his brand new car! :ashamed:
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http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/technology/can-dimpled-aerodynamic-surfaces-reduce-drag/
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/technology-explained/diffusers-engineering-basics-aerodynamics/
:happy2:
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Very interesting articles, I still need to fit part 12 in the diagram above
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D14-qU18DTY/Tkgw-njFU0I/AAAAAAAAA30/78hZYeBciY0/s640/P1030444.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dlyp08NB72w/Tkgw95xYFyI/AAAAAAAAA3w/MPF9II57gFU/s512/P1030445.JPG)
The clearance to the exhaust is marginal on the left rear bracket
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xJ8BnZLWj9Q/TkgzQajW_3I/AAAAAAAAA4E/lHAZ8YryMbc/s640/P1030456.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qH-PcTjpvIs/TkgzNSQFtFI/AAAAAAAAA4A/99MokR9tzMo/s640/P1030462.JPG)
But think if I can get it to fit (with some heat-shield) then the extra length could be worth the hassle... :innocent:
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So I havent been back near a passat with a camera but I have found these pictures from a passat on an american car of somethign approaching the right parts.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ssec.wisc.edu%2F%7Escottb%2Fb6%2FValley_hitch_with_panel_trimmed.jpg&hash=5b461afa825570dc5229e61811744e6a57f1bcb8)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ssec.wisc.edu%2F%7Escottb%2Fb6%2FPassat_underbody_piece_1.jpg&hash=2d4e754a7c1cb25d32834b030e86af1f9fa9f925)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ssec.wisc.edu%2F%7Escottb%2Fb6%2FPassat_underbody_piece_2.jpg&hash=dbaa4b6376f5d10f41d6403aabb42b343a543d8c)
which would seem to look like some form of under-body panel for the rear....
which is an earlier part revision to your diagram above for the previous generation passat:
21 3C0 825 216 B underbody lining right rear 1 PR-1X0
In the first picture there also looks to be a full central piece of trim as well that doesnt appear on the ETKA exploded diagram.
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All you need to do now Rich is cover your car in grease and never use your aircon and it'll be super efficient :laugh:
Need to fix that flippin front under tray :sad1:
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All you need to do now Rich is cover your car in grease and never use your aircon and it'll be super efficient :laugh:
Need to fix that flippin front under tray :sad1:
LOL thanks Mike! :ashamed: I just dont see the point of wasting fuel poutling up and down the motorway so I can save it for the A-Roads!
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Very interesting articles, I still need to fit part 12 in the diagram above
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D14-qU18DTY/Tkgw-njFU0I/AAAAAAAAA30/78hZYeBciY0/s640/P1030444.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dlyp08NB72w/Tkgw95xYFyI/AAAAAAAAA3w/MPF9II57gFU/s512/P1030445.JPG)
The clearance to the exhaust is marginal on the left rear bracket
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xJ8BnZLWj9Q/TkgzQajW_3I/AAAAAAAAA4E/lHAZ8YryMbc/s640/P1030456.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qH-PcTjpvIs/TkgzNSQFtFI/AAAAAAAAA4A/99MokR9tzMo/s640/P1030462.JPG)
But think if I can get it to fit (with some heat-shield) then the extra length could be worth the hassle... :innocent:
Hi Rich,
That part (3C0 501 713 A) is also available on the MK6 Golf, same part number but doesn't have the suffix A, so it may be worthwhile seeing what parts are needed or available from the MK6 or how the exhaust is routed so it doesnt foul the cover?
I remember seeing it on a MK6 Golf Variant Bluemotion, but didn't pay any attention to routing of pipework etc.
Whats confusing is that on ETKA the picture is of the older part fitted to MK5's, but the part number refers to Passat (3C0), also on ETKA there are 2 part numbers: 1K0 501 713D and also 3C0 501 713 listed for Golfs and Jettas
Regards.
Baz
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All you need to do now Rich is cover your car in grease and never use your aircon and it'll be super efficient :laugh:
:ashamed: Mines already done :grin:. Theres gallons of waxoyl under mine, thats the yellow colour in my photos :ashamed:
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All you need to do now Rich is cover your car in grease and never use your aircon and it'll be super efficient :laugh:
:ashamed: Mines already done :grin:. Theres around 10 Ltrs of waxoyl under mine. :ashamed:
In Jan my non aero fuel saving mod is Store in Garage / lock / Key / Trackday / Garage / lock / Key
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Mine rare gets used from November till March. The winter cheap runabout comes out then.
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Guess the Golf Variant has the same tube routing as the Skoda Octavia
and that is different to GTI.
Why is exhaust tubing so (soot) black on the underside?
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Cheers Baz I think it will fit just a little too close to the exhaust (as in touching) I should really just go and invest in the correct part but since I have it.... one thing that has been bothering me is the clips the screw into the screw thread on the subframe mount, they look like they should have a proper metal nut in them but if they do mine have gone awol.
Not sure why its so black bruce, after very short start up a good deal of water collects there on the pipe, the whole area around the rear wheels is terribly rusty (bet it makes snoopy cringe and glad he has waxoyl all over the place) so I dont think it ever got rinsed off in winter despite all the salt we have on our rounds here in the UK is rock salt and horrible to metals. By the looks of the rear of the exhaust it wont be lasting long :sad1:
It could be I need to adjust the exhaust but without being home and axle stands its difficult to do in my flat car park.
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Cheers Baz I think it will fit just a little too close to the exhaust (as in touching) I should really just go and invest in the correct part but since I have it.... one thing that has been bothering me is the clips the screw into the screw thread on the subframe mount, they look like they should have a proper metal nut in them but if they do mine have gone awol.
Hi Rich,
If you are fitting part# 1K0 513 713 D then fastner on the NS sub frame is a Rivet stud. Part# N 910 011 01. I broke 2 drill bits drilling into the sub frame. :rolleye:
For the part you are fitting which is longer my guess is it uses a bracket part# 1K0 825 221 for the NS , the opposite part being 1K0 501 682 for the OS.
Part number 1K0 825 221 is used for fastening the large cover on the NS where the exhaust box would be. These brackets also need the bolts/nuts etc
Regards
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Cheers Baz I have 1K0 501 682 as the part for the proper cover, so 1K0 825 221 is its mirror image for the rear passenger side mount and N905 483 05 and N901 838 02 are the nut and bolt for the subframe.
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
-
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
The three that hold the new front undetr tray on? I found they were very tight to fasten (was only using cheap ratchet screwdriver) Think it may just have been the locktite on then though
-
It's better first to 'recut' and clean the threads in the alloy subframe
to get the bolts easier in.
-
It's better first to 'recut' and clean the threads in the alloy subframe
to get the bolts easier in.
I now have to drill and re tap the holes anyhow as Keanos driveway of death ripped 2 of the bolts (heads) out :sad1:
If you currently have acess to you r ETKA wizzardry could you PM me p/n for ed30 / cupra / S3 fuel filter please, the one under the drivers sill :happy2: :happy2:
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It's better first to 'recut' and clean the threads in the alloy subframe
to get the bolts easier in.
I now have to drill and re tap the holes anyhow as Keanos driveway of death ripped 2 of the bolts (heads) out :sad1:
If you currently have acess to you r ETKA wizzardry could you PM me p/n for ed30 / cupra / S3 fuel filter please, the one under the drivers sill :happy2: :happy2:
Found it, 1k0201051C :drinking:
-
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
The three that hold the new front undetr tray on? I found they were very tight to fasten (was only using cheap ratchet screwdriver) Think it may just have been the locktite on then though
No these are the ones that hold the rear trim on to the bracket that attaches to the rear axle, It has two little plastic parts that are semi bolt shapped and designed to collapse as tightened but they came with no nuts inside (think I am probably just going to go to hardware store and get two nylon nuts in stainless but wondered if others had nuts attached with there bits.
-
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
The three that hold the new front undetr tray on? I found they were very tight to fasten (was only using cheap ratchet screwdriver) Think it may just have been the locktite on then though
No these are the ones that hold the rear trim on to the bracket that attaches to the rear axle, It has two little plastic parts that are semi bolt shapped and designed to collapse as tightened but they came with no nuts inside (think I am probably just going to go to hardware store and get two nylon nuts in stainless but wondered if others had nuts attached with there bits.
Got ya, need to catch up with you lol have only done the 1st three mods
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Cheers Baz I have 1K0 501 682 as the part for the proper cover, so 1K0 825 221 is its mirror image for the rear passenger side mount and N905 483 05 and N901 838 02 are the nut and bolt for the subframe.
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
Hi Rich,
The nut that you refer to is an expanding nut. Part # N908 338 01 for the correct cover. For some unknown reason I didn't get this :rolleye:, so I just used one of those S shaped clips that are used with the screws on the other panels.
Itis this bracket that the large N/S cover is attached too. But for the cover you are attaching you need a stud coming out of it for that plastic captive nut in the cover to attach to. I havn't found it listed in ETKA yet.
Regards.
-
Cheers Baz I have 1K0 501 682 as the part for the proper cover, so 1K0 825 221 is its mirror image for the rear passenger side mount and N905 483 05 and N901 838 02 are the nut and bolt for the subframe.
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
Correction...found it.
The OS bracket part# 1K0 581 682, as we know.
The NS bracket part# 1K0 581 681.
And you need 2 bolts Part# N905 483 05 and 2 nuts part# N 901 838 02.
The bracket part# 1K0 825 221 is used for the cover part# 1K0 825 206A which is that large cover by the exhaust pipe.
Regards.
-
If you currently have acess to you r ETKA wizzardry could you PM me p/n for ed30 / cupra / S3 fuel filter please, the one under the drivers sill :happy2: :happy2:
Found it, 1k0201051C :drinking:
[/quote]
Sorry, had to work. :wink:
-
Cheers Baz I have 1K0 501 682 as the part for the proper cover, so 1K0 825 221 is its mirror image for the rear passenger side mount and N905 483 05 and N901 838 02 are the nut and bolt for the subframe.
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
Correction...found it.
The OS bracket part# 1K0 581 682, as we know.
The NS bracket part# 1K0 581 681.
And you need 2 bolts Part# N905 483 05 and 2 nuts part# N 901 838 02.
The bracket part# 1K0 825 221 is used for the cover part# 1K0 825 206A which is that large cover by the exhaust pipe.
Regards.
Yeah saw that bracket its lower slung and has a thread rather than a threaded bolt to attach too, so the rear axle cover I have got and the plastic trim are mutually exclusive! I have just received my heat-shield bits and bobs which is going to include some exhaust wrap and then some reflective heat-shield on the plastic itself :party:
-
If you currently have acess to you r ETKA wizzardry could you PM me p/n for ed30 / cupra / S3 fuel filter please, the one under the drivers sill :happy2: :happy2:
Found it, 1k0201051C :drinking:
Sorry, had to work. :wink:
[/quote]
Thanks anyway :happy2:
Cheers Baz I have 1K0 501 682 as the part for the proper cover, so 1K0 825 221 is its mirror image for the rear passenger side mount and N905 483 05 and N901 838 02 are the nut and bolt for the subframe.
But on top of that did the plastic nut that locates into the long threaded part from the subframe (1K0 501 682) have a nylon nut or something else in inside the plastic holder?
Correction...found it.
The OS bracket part# 1K0 581 682, as we know.
The NS bracket part# 1K0 581 681.
And you need 2 bolts Part# N905 483 05 and 2 nuts part# N 901 838 02.
The bracket part# 1K0 825 221 is used for the cover part# 1K0 825 206A which is that large cover by the exhaust pipe.
Regards.
Yeah saw that bracket its lower slung and has a thread rather than a threaded bolt to attach too, so the rear axle cover I have got and the plastic trim are mutually exclusive! I have just received my heat-shield bits and bobs which is going to include some exhaust wrap and then some reflective heat-shield on the plastic itself :party:
I cant keep up, lol. What are you wrapping Rich? Shall I wait for the 'picture painting a thousand words?'
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Yeah saw that bracket its lower slung and has a thread rather than a threaded bolt to attach too, so the rear axle cover I have got and the plastic trim are mutually exclusive! I have just received my heat-shield bits and bobs which is going to include some exhaust wrap and then some reflective heat-shield on the plastic itself :party:
So does this cover os yours sit below or above the exhaust pipe?
Trying to find some under pics of a Golf MK6 underbody, to see how much more it covers.
Would be interesting to know if this cover and the larger cover part' 1K0 825 206 A, on the NS can be both fitted.
Regards.
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I got the full undertray fitted by VW this week (£35.00).
I think everyone should consider this just for the increase in noise refinement (you are half-way to MK6 levels), actually VW should have fitted this from the start!
I will post again if I notice any change in MPG.
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Yeah saw that bracket its lower slung and has a thread rather than a threaded bolt to attach too, so the rear axle cover I have got and the plastic trim are mutually exclusive! I have just received my heat-shield bits and bobs which is going to include some exhaust wrap and then some reflective heat-shield on the plastic itself :party:
So does this cover os yours sit below or above the exhaust pipe?
Trying to find some under pics of a Golf MK6 underbody, to see how much more it covers.
Would be interesting to know if this cover and the larger cover part' 1K0 825 206 A, on the NS can be both fitted.
Regards.
The cover sits below the exhaust pipe and the bracket fits in the same place as your current one so dont think you could have both on at the same time :sad1: but with the longer one you have going past the silencer not sure if this longer one would do much extra will report back once fitted will be first weekend in September when Im back in glos with a drive and axle stands :smiley:
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Chaps,
Been reading this and it looks really interesting - especially the possible fuel saving benefits on longer runs.
Just one question, in the original post the technical diagram shows:-
"Bodenverkleidung" on each flank, is that part already on a Mk5 GTi (Ed30), so once you have the under engine cover and the rear axle 'parts' on that's it?
Or are the "Bodenverkleidung" x2 extra parts on this list.
Thanks
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Chaps,
Been reading this and it looks really interesting - especially the possible fuel saving benefits on longer runs.
Just one question, in the original post the technical diagram shows:-
"Bodenverkleidung" on each flank, is that part already on a Mk5 GTi (Ed30), so once you have the under engine cover and the rear axle 'parts' on that's it?
Or are the "Bodenverkleidung" x2 extra parts on this list.
Thanks
2 xtra parts :happy2:
-
Some BED TIME reading.......
http://autospeed.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=2455 (http://autospeed.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=2455)
http://autospeed.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=2456 (http://autospeed.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=2456)
-
Chaps,
Been reading this and it looks really interesting - especially the possible fuel saving benefits on longer runs.
Just one question, in the original post the technical diagram shows:-
"Bodenverkleidung" on each flank, is that part already on a Mk5 GTi (Ed30), so once you have the under engine cover and the rear axle 'parts' on that's it?
Or are the "Bodenverkleidung" x2 extra parts on this list.
Thanks
2 xtra parts :happy2:
Is that not the floor undertrays which are standard?
This is what i understood but they lost me off when talking about the passat stuff :ashamed: :ashamed: :ashamed:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780378_3041.jpg&hash=f6cbd90c06f97943e64ba85a01b272e404167a89)
Heres the list of parts i got with current UK prices.
Part numbers with RRP Prices exc VAT
Full VW Golf Engine under tray
(x1) 1K0 825 237 P Undertray £26.24
(x3) 1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 80p each
#4 on picture = Rear axle cover as fitted to VW Golf bluemotion
(x1) 1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £25.03
(x1) 1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.67
(x1) N 905 483 05 Retaining bolt 47p
(x1) N 901 838 02 Retaining bolt £1.63
#2a & #2b on picture = Rear arm covers from Audi TT
(x1) 1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £4.69
(x1) 1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £5.91
(x4) 8E0 825 267 A spreader rivet 10p each
(x2) 1K0 609 734 C brake cable clamp 76p each
(x2) N 102 854 02 Bolt 18p each
#3 on picture
1K0 825 206 A - Unterbodenverkleidung links hinten
N 909 707 02 - Schnappmutter 2 x
WHT 000 713 - Sechskantbundmutter (2 x ??)
1K0 825 221 - Winkel
N 905 483 03 - Sechskantbundschraube M8
N 901 838 02- Sechskantbundmutter selbstsichernd
N 908 338 01 - Spreizmutter
The only other thing on that list we were original talking about were 1a & 1b
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-15RDczW6SKU/TivFAOtRJFI/AAAAAAAAA0s/-GwXyQgEhb0/s640/P1030363.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lD_qictN6Vs/TivFJKYuvgI/AAAAAAAAA0w/pyCTSOff89k/s640/P1030364.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nf6WuTPG4wo/Tiw2o3V3VzI/AAAAAAAAA1c/shRA8dQVxLU/s640/P1030411.JPG)
I also bought the 1a and 1b larger deflectors, although based on ETKA I didnt get enough screws to fit both as at the moment I only have the one installed but as the profile picture shows it almost has a significant increase in air deflection. It needs some more fixings as I didnt order the right parts :laugh:
#1a & 1b i think are the 'all terrain protection'
1k0 825 001 b
1k0 825 002 b
Anyone had a good look under a current bluemotion golf yet just to see if theres anything we have missed? :smiley:
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The parts on the current large cover alomg both sides that bits 1a and 1b fit over, on the MK6 golf have little castle shaped cut outs almost like a mini diffusor on each side.
If that makes sense. If the rep at wok comes in with his BlueMotion Golf Variant I'll try and take some pics.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lD_qictN6Vs/TivFJKYuvgI/AAAAAAAAA0w/pyCTSOff89k/s640/P1030364.JPG)
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I have a mk6 golf and this is why i did not get 1a & 1b mine are like this.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb361%2Fflogitg%2FForum%2520photos%2Fgti%2FIMGP0398.jpg&hash=1e323105d0fc3a28e2735f334ca4212e547a1aff)
I was wondering if there was any other covers under the bluemotion golf apart from the rear axle one we know about. Maybe some on the ends of the rear bumper to smooth that void out?
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I was wondering if there was any other covers under the bluemotion golf apart from the rear axle one we know about. Maybe some on the ends of the rear bumper to smooth that void out?
I've not seem anything listed for the Golf, however there is a right rear cover for the Golf Variant and Jetta.
Part# 1K5 825 205 B, you may be able to adapt this to cover any void on the drivers side rear around the rear bumper if thats what you mean?
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So I'm still a bit confused as to whether the two underfloor flanks are requiring the left and right sided "bodenverkleidung" from the original post on this topic and then you add the 1a and 1b parts on top.
Are these standard fit on Mk5 Gti's?
It looks like a good add on to me, along with the bigger under engine cover and rear parts, but wonder if others had fitted these? And if so what parts/numbers are these?
That said I'm no Adrian Newey regarding airflow..
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So I'm still a bit confused as to whether the two underfloor flanks are requiring the left and right sided "bodenverkleidung" from the original post on this topic and then you add the 1a and 1b parts on top.
Are these standard fit on Mk5 Gti's?
It looks like a good add on to me, along with the bigger under engine cover and rear parts, but wonder if others had fitted these? And if so what parts/numbers are these?
That said I'm no Adrian Newey regarding airflow..
Taken from an earlier post:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780124_3041.jpg&hash=70024c69997a63fbd4216bfe1b2920fa0a3401c8)
Nr.1 und (1) are mor kind of ''all terrain protection'':
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780224_3041.png&hash=0c7c35dff1a5dc726134247357ab17b3fd082802)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1266780378_3041.jpg&hash=f6cbd90c06f97943e64ba85a01b272e404167a89)
2a and 2b comes from Audi A3 and TT 8J (fwd only).
Nr.3 comes from TDI BlueMotion and is best to be used with an non-resonated exhaust.
Nr.4 is ''Hinterachsverkleidung'' from TDI Blue Motion.
You would need 2a,2b, 3, 4
1a,1b are part of a rough road package, 3,4 are from the Blue Motion Golf
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So I'm still a bit confused as to whether the two underfloor flanks are requiring the left and right sided "bodenverkleidung" from the original post on this topic and then you add the 1a and 1b parts on top.
Are these standard fit on Mk5 Gti's?
It looks like a good add on to me, along with the bigger under engine cover and rear parts, but wonder if others had fitted these? And if so what parts/numbers are these?
That said I'm no Adrian Newey regarding airflow..
The main under body panels down the side are the original ones on the car the 1a and 1b are extras they are called stone deflectors but get fitted to the bluemotion, the back end of the MK6 ones look like they are designed to be vortex generators that help to decrease flow separation, the Evo had these on the rear above the screen.
So to answer your question you need 1a 1b, you need the 2a 2b and the 4 as well as the front under-tray and all the associated fitting parts.
over the weekend on a trip to pembrokeshire and back I managed to do 380 miles on a tank with 20 range on the comp and that included a mix of driving and with a loaded up car and I still dont have the rear axle panel in place :party:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TqNIEj602iQ/TlygypgDKVI/AAAAAAAAA7o/umAJO47Vx-E/s720/IMAG0035.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WxraYc_ZxQo/Tlygyi1w3bI/AAAAAAAAA7s/8rhNMzket1Y/s720/IMAG0036.jpg)
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The 3.2 VR6 is known for it's temperature problem.
You see the R32 comes fitted with the 237 P as standard.
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Good spot to notice the bigger under engine cover in that video.
That R32 was transformed into a right beast. If it was the same car...understood not one word of the clip.
Thanks for all posts that helped my recent confusion about parts, cheers guys.
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Still on aero mods;
I'm trying to weigh up pros and cons of leaving the cup spoiler off for a change as the car is in for repair
After this http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,34223.msg417611.html#msg417611 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,34223.msg417611.html#msg417611)
It weighs a bit for what it is, what do you think if anything it's doing for me aerodynamically?
:happy2:
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Hard to tell, but I guess if the gap between bumper and splitter is closed
there should be advantages in both (reduced) lift and drag and increased
air pressure to the intercooler/radiator assembly.
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.
At one time, due to this thread, I was seriously interested in fitting the OEM engine undertray 1K0825237P - Thank goodness I didn't! Had I done so I would not have discovered a minor leak from my DSG until a more serious and expensive problem had raised its ugly head. I keep a large piece of cardboard on the garage floor under the engine so I can spot any leaks.
I have to say that this undertray simply doesn't make sense from a maintenance point of view.
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A couple of screws (like stock) and three bolts do not really affect ease of maintanence. :wink:
Of course you oil leakage unfortunately would have been ''hided'' by the undertray.
But I bravely don't fear a prob like this on my three year old Mk.V.
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A couple of screws (like stock) and three bolts do not really affect ease of maintanence. :wink:
Of course you oil leakage unfortunately would have been ''hided'' by the undertray.
But I bravely don't fear a prob like this on my three year old Mk.V.
....By the use of the word "maintenance" I mean the ability to maintain a car well by spotting and solving any problems.
A 3-year old car can leak a fluid for a whole variety of reasons - It might even be that someone didn't seal something properly. Personally I don't want any potential problems hidden. But each to their own priorities and preferences. :happy2:
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Don't misunderstand me, Robin. :wink:
In your personal situation you took advantage of having no large undertray.
But there is never any 100 % safety to spot all issues. If I'd need this I had
to look under the bonnet every day or even better remove it.
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Im sure the leak would have found its way out of the undertray through the vents and marked the cardboard just the same. The way oil has a habit of finding it way as it does. Does DSG oil not stink like normal transmission oil? As i would smell it a mile away if it did even if its just a small amount. It imo would never get to a bad levels without it been seen from experiences of leaks in the past.
Taking the undertray off out 2005 leon to change the oil this morning showed me how much it protects the underneath of the car from the weather and corrosion as everything behind it is spotless like new. It also stopped the alloy sump been marked from the graze on the cover. :ashamed:
Any change effects something.
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^
Yes, DSG oil does smell strongly but there was so little of it.
I think you make some good valid points (as usual), Geoff. So perhaps I'll reconsider this part for purely protective reasons.
How much might it reduce my 65mm ground clearance by though!?
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In case of my GTI the subframe is still the lowest part.
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For those who don't have a GTI roof spoiler:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155775
(the Votex is far better than the GTI spoiler from the view of this topic)
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Further to what I posted up before I have just come back from holiday in France, and have with a full car managed to get over 400 miles out of a tank of 98 RON on two occasions this was supermarket fuel as well so nothing special. With about 100 miles of N roads at 90kph followed by auto-route up over the massif central and down across the Millau viaduct, which takes you up to over 1,000 metres altitude on 3 occasions, so I'm fairly chuffed with that.
The stability of the car at speed is also better so even if you dont feel comfortable with the larger engine tray Robin the rear control arm cover off of the TT and the rear axle cover would be a good investment ~£40 of parts which will reduce the air pressure under the rear of the car and wont affect ground clearance at all.
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^
Thanks Rich :drinking:
Am really short of funds right now (and the foreseeable future :sad1:). I have to sell things to buy things.
Massif Central is great - Very unspoilt.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2F11_TypicalTwisty.jpg&hash=d86143b9cdf04d152b083dc9a4ac93aa3064da85)
^ Spot the road?
Plenty more pics but I'm sure no-one wants to see my daughter and friends in the river. :evilgrin:
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ha ha, yeah it is nice unfortunately I didnt get to stop although fancied a spot of canoeing in the tarn valley which i guess is what you were doing? The only pic I have is of the Aire at Milau but the geology is rather interesting even just seen from the car (several table top mountains and big valleys and gorges).
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-a1WbDVxagj4/Tnn24NyvipI/AAAAAAAAA8M/kEznMQCBipU/s640/P1030856.JPG)
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looks nice !! :driver:
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Just a note regards the 2 longer side trims that come standard on the golfs ie the ones under the sills, I had to order both sides has after 3 years with coilovers it took its toll and they where destroyed :evilgrin: any way the new ones are a superceded part and have bigger hump bits at the back similar to what it would be like with the 1a and 1b fitted but all in one.
I also have a new front undertray has I took it off some time ago and it went missing!! any way the car does seem much quieter at all speeds.
Darren
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Got all the pieces on order but Audi had the TT parts in stock so the 2a and 2b are on the car,
I didn't realise until I was under the car that I have the silencer nr the rear axle due to having the GTI cat back :confused: I ordered no#3 on the list :confused:
Do I cancel them parts or try and fit them??? why dont I check before I buy things :fighting2:
Darren
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Got all the pieces on order but Audi had the TT parts in stock so the 2a and 2b are on the car,
I didn't realise until I was under the car that I have the silencer nr the rear axle due to having the GTI cat back :confused: I ordered no#3 on the list :confused:
Do I cancel them parts or try and fit them??? why dont I check before I buy things :fighting2:
Darren
:signLOL: I DO know the feeling :signLOL:
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With the front silencer on I think you might struggle to fit part 3 or have to chop it away into a much smaller piece.
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If you like to read about aerodynamics:
http://www.aerowolf.de/index.htm
http://www.aerowolf.de/aeroauto5.htm
http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=racecar%20aerodynamics&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.de%2FNew-Directions-Race-Car-Aerodynamics%2Fdp%2F0837601428&ei=RzWvTp6LKsjR8gORopCwAQ&usg=AFQjCNHvOaMBjY7QKp2GUWsv2JmVqt9MaQ&cad=rja
http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=aerodynamik%20des%20automobils&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.de%2FAerodynamik-Automobils-Str%25C3%25B6mungsmechanik-W%25C3%25A4rmetechnik-MTZ-Fachbuch%2Fdp%2F3528039590&ei=kzavTtfjOsmQ4gS4ltSsAQ&usg=AFQjCNGS0_TQYnIuVXf1m51CW2fMTioitg&cad=rja
http://elib.tu-darmstadt.de/tocs/133153142.pdf
Or if you like it easier read this:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/technology-explained/diffusers-engineering-basics-aerodynamics/
http://www-f1.ijs.si/~rudi/sola/RaceCarAerodynamics.pdf
http://strangeholiday.com/oops/stuff/annurev.fluid.38.050304.092016.pdf
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I fitted the tank guard but have had to cable tie it on on one side"no fixing nr the exhaust side" any way I'm obviously going to have to drill it but I found this part number on ETKA N 910 011 01 - Blind rivet stud? I think this is to be inserted in the drilled hole then using a rivet gun squash then you have the fixing you need??
Does the above sound about right?
Darren
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On my 2008 GTI I did not need it.
If your GTI is older try it with drilling and insert the rivet.
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Cheers Bruce stud ordered @ VW should be here Friday,
Now to sort the timing out on this engine, any one know about how to change the timing on a bkd 16valve engine :happy2:
Darren
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The Clio 197/200 has a very good and functional system that wouldn't be too far off a Golf's size. The 197's in particular is very cheap and easy to come by and testing has shown from 80mph upwards, it generates in the region of 40kgs of downforce. Compared to my old MK5, the Clio200 I had was glued to the track at high speed.
197
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstreamlinecarbon.com%2Fv2%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2Fwebsite%2520image.jpg&hash=aaeca4e9e9ca5e16ff05fe9e44cbc18ef6a0cd1a)
200
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2.paultan.org%2Fi%2Fclio-rs200-2.jpg&hash=f705e3dc92e2fc183ab2ad0e5e57ed13e6f38abe)
This looks serious !! :happy2:
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will the 1K0 825 237 P fit on my car with an AXX engine and DSG gearbox?
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Yes, it will.
''237 P'' fits all Mk.V/Mk.VI GTIs.
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Yes, it will.
''237 P'' fits all Mk.V/Mk.VI GTIs.
And Touran 1T, as the wife's touran has one :happy2:
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Yes, it will.
''237 P'' fits all Mk.V/Mk.VI GTIs.
don't drive a Mk5 lol, 2006 8P
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Exactly the same.
The A3 3.2 comes with the ''237 P'' from factory and fwik all A3s and GTIs
sold in the USA have it regardless which engine they have.
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awesomeeeee :pomppomp:
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Sub I actually have a 8P metal skid pan and frame if your after one :happy2: £50 for the lot Ill get pics tomorrow.
Darren
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Hi there, just found this thread and very interesting so far. I've got a 58 gt sport, how can I tell if I've got the full engine undertray or not? I don't want to buy the large undertray to find I already have it! Definitely going to be investing in some of these though :)
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If it's a TDI you have a large one, if it's a TSI you don't.
:wink:
Or get on your knees and make a photo. Post it here or
just compare it to the ones on page one.
Ill get pics tomorrow.
:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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Hi all
Was having a butchers under my golf sport today as it was on the ramps, and it looks like most of the underneath of the car is actually covered....
its got both of the side covers, the large undertray under the engine such that the only thing exposed is the ends of the subframe.... do i have much else left to retrofit?! probably going to get a new set of front trays as the current one is battered after 152,000 miles!
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Ok thanks :) I've got the tsi so guess I won't have it. I'll get a picture when its dry here and post it up for advice. Can I install most of these covers without a ramp? I.e. just on the ground? Cheers :)
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the under tray you definitely don't need a ramp, I've taken mine off a few times now
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True but with the full undertray its not quite as simple because of the size and having to get the bolts into the alloy subframe but can be done easy enough by jacking the car up and put it on axle stand, its how i took mine off the last time on the floor as the car has to go back in to the dealers for the a wastegate clip and i was not letting the monkeys there rip the full undertray off so put the half one back on.
Comparison photo of the small half cover and the full cover, (Posted earlier) think we have all done them but this one shows it best imo.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MLlg3oHkaFo/TivEpIcDqLI/AAAAAAAAA0k/6UeRBQ9HNvY/s640/P1030348.JPG)
Also fixed most my old photos in this thread :ashamed:
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Wich one of these 2 does the OEm GTI have ? I removed mine so many times for various stuff, I forgot ! :grin:
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European GTIs have the small one.
small one:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_4kAgpBiQyvk%2FTOQQhEMeTQI%2FAAAAAAAAAOI%2F7O6F2NbT3vM%2Fs800%2FIMAG0387.jpg&hash=b7e38876b40255698361bc91d16a09dad50203d0)
large one (like several US-GTIs & R32):
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gt.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1268522379_764.jpg&hash=32059df1020f1415a69a425229c530bef51a59b0)
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Yep, found a pic with my car and it's the small one. What's the part number for the large one ? Maybe I can find a used one in my mechanic's garage !
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Just from memory:
1K0 825 237 P
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Just from memory:
1K0 825 237 P
:laugh:
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I was asked so many times - it's countless . . . :rolleye:
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think i might go for the under tray, exhaust shield and axle guard.
cheers for the part numbers Geoff
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Hi guys, hoping for some help again! (Sorry!)
I just wanted to collate all the part no.'s that I need so I can contact TPS without sounding like an idiot and know what I need for installation etc.
I'm after getting the engine undertray, 1a + 1b, 2a + 2b and 4 definitely. Possibly no.3 pending inspection of my exhaust system!
What I've got so far:
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P - x 1
1K0 825 951 – x 3 (bolts)
Rear covers from A3 or TT
1K0 511 539 E – x 1
1K0 511 540 C – x 1
8E0 825 267 – x 4 (what do I need to install these)
Rear axle cover as fitted to bluemotion
1K0 501 713 D – x 1
1K0 501 682 - x 1
What other parts do I need? I think I've listed the undertray, no.4 and the rear covers are 2a and 2b I think? I'm getting confused with part numbers and brackets/bolts/rivets needed!
What tools do I need to install? I.e. what type of rivet gun (assume they are pop rivets?) and I'm hoping I don't need to drill anything... Sorry if I've missed the information, it would be good to have it all in one place! Cheers guys
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Hi guys, hoping for some help again! (Sorry!)
I just wanted to collate all the part no.'s that I need so I can contact TPS without sounding like an idiot and know what I need for installation etc.
I'm after getting the engine undertray, 1a + 1b, 2a + 2b and 4 definitely. Possibly no.3 pending inspection of my exhaust system!
What I've got so far:
Engine undertray
1K0 825 237 P - x 1
1K0 825 951 – x 3 (bolts)
Rear covers from A3 or TT
1K0 511 539 E – x 1
1K0 511 540 C – x 1
8E0 825 267 – x 4 (what do I need to install these)
Rear axle cover as fitted to bluemotion
1K0 501 713 D – x 1
1K0 501 682 - x 1
What other parts do I need? I think I've listed the undertray, no.4 and the rear covers are 2a and 2b I think? I'm getting confused with part numbers and brackets/bolts/rivets needed!
What tools do I need to install? I.e. what type of rivet gun (assume they are pop rivets?) and I'm hoping I don't need to drill anything... Sorry if I've missed the information, it would be good to have it all in one place! Cheers guys
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22986.msg402475.html#msg402475
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Thanks, sorry I completely missed this page. Got everything I asked for on that page!
Whats this part no. for? 3C0 501 713
Also, for all the rivets etc. what do I need to install and are the holes pre drilled?
Definitely getting the undertray, part no.4, 2a & 2b (not sure about brake line difficulty though) and I was hoping someone could tell me of the benefits of 1a & 1b?
Cheers again :)
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3C0 501 713 is the larger Passat rear axle cover - you don't need it.
1a and 1b are the small spoilers sitting on the rear of your already
fitted large undebody trays besides the tunnel. These can be retro-
fitted on all Mk.Vs which have already even smaller spoilers at that
place. Mk.VIs have toothed larger spoilers there so that 1a/b do not
fit.
1a/b originally are a part of the Volkswagen ''all terrain package''
available in some countries and they protect the rear axle against
stone chips, snow and ice parts.
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as the bruce states you dont want the 3c0 part number I got that by mistake and it needed to be modified to fit and you need further brackets for the other side of the rear axle.
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Thanks guys, thought it might be that.
With the stone protectors do they add any aerodynamic benefits? Ie downforce?
Thanks :)
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If you fit the rear axle cover and the A3 trailing arm covers I don't see
any need for them. Without a wind tunnel I cannot exactly tell the
difference with or without of course.
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Sounds good to me, easier for me that way as I'm not that great at fitting. Thanks again for the advice and starting this thread :) I need to invest in a trolley jack and axle stands! I'll let you know results when I've got it done :)
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I've ordered the front large undertray but cannot find a real aerodynamic purpose on the little bits from the rear. I'd better look into making an entire piece just like in front instead of all those small pieces !
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The rear parts especially the audi parts on the control arms are aerodynamically shaped and i don't think audi and vw strap bits of plastic to the bottom of the car for no reason :laugh:
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I've ordered the front large undertray but cannot find a real aerodynamic purpose on the little bits from the rear. I'd better look into making an entire piece just like in front instead of all those small pieces !
Great idea. I thought about that many times.
The problem is the heat caused by the exhaust, so that heat resistant material has to be used.
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The other problem with a single rear cover is the amount of consistent space you have to run a flat area of plastic at the same level or higher than the front end.
In front of the rear axle the fuel tank drops down below the line of the rest of the body on one side and the other you have the first silence.
Then you have the rear axle which gives you clear space and mounting points yet the exhaust comes through that area directly in the middle between the control arms if you look at the larger pass at part in my earlier photos the exhaust interferes with this.
Then between the control arms you have a gap of maybe 30 cm in the middle where you don't need clearance for the suspension to be able to fully travel.
Straight behind that you have an exhaust taking up the entire rear area before the number, the standard one if you could get a material that is temperature resistant could be boxed in and the cover made to bolt on to holes that are already in the rear bumper, but this could cause heat issues into the cabin. So you would want a rear vent or something to draw air over the rear silence, and the larger miltek or after market exhausts all hang down lower so would be even worse.
I had a look into potential materials as well and stuff that's easy to work with like abs plastic generally has low melting points which leaves you with rigid materials like aluminium or harder plastics, or you could do a wet lay up in kevlar or heat resistant carbon fiber?
My thought on the best option would be a panel that comes from the rear of the fuel tank through the middle of the rear axle uptto the exhaust and then attach slightly curved upward material to the control arms to flow air up behind the car to reduce rear drag at higher speeds
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This one has a real working duffuser:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fchristian-radtke.de%2Fgallery%2Fmotor2009%2Frcn%2Frcntest09%2Ffull%2FRCN%2520Einstellfahrten%2520%2528119%2529.jpg&hash=0c172767876d77dbebce18d2495b10cea38f0aaa)
The professional built racing Mk.Vs have no rear muffler and different lower arms not to disturb air flow.
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Quite interested in this, especially as I take mine on track.
How hard are the parts to fit generally? Can I do itself by jacking the car up or does it need to be done on proper ramps (i.e get garage to do it)?
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Yes Bruce , that must be really nice but unfortunately nobody makes such parts for Golf (as they do for Lotus, caterham... in UK). That must be a custom diffuser and I cannot afford paying thousands of euros for wind tunnel testing and custom manufacturing :(
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DIY !! :wink:
The guy who owns the white Golf TDI kit car did it on his own !!
For your bonnet vent plans:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2162/article.html?popularArticle
Quite interested in this, especially as I take mine on track.
How hard are the parts to fit generally? Can I do itself by jacking the car up or does it need to be done on proper ramps (i.e get garage to do it)?
For safety and ease of work I prefer a lift.
Fitting all these parts will be possible with just a jack though.
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DIY is ok if you've got the tech to do it. I've read those articles and while the theory is right those vents, splitters...look awful. I wouldn't put on my car anything that's lower quality than say OSIR ! I care about the look and that's why I'd accept aerodynamic parts from producers that have the technology to do it properly !
Here's an example > http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/automotive_home.php . If someone would make parts like this for our cars it would be awesome !
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What about these?
http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/product_list.php?group=A%20RDIFF&subgroup=A%20RDIFF%20CA
http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/product_detail.php?group=A%20FLOOR&subgroup=A%20FLOOR%20VH&part_code=R01SB0365
My personal preferences are performance, practicability and looks.
After some years spending on modifying cars in this manner I realized
coping all three things in one car is a very expensive task. :wink:
I guess you also know it well. :drinking:
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Yes, the unviversal diffusers would be nice, provided you can make enough room for them by modifying the exhaust and this is not something I'm willing to do. At this point, I'm thinking of a rear wing for rear downforce and a splitter or/and air dam for front downforce. For the front, the most effective until now would be the VWRacing air dam (they don't run a splitter on their racing cars and I don't know why since that would bring extra downforce). For the rear, the wing I'm looking at for the moment would be the 225mm wing from here > http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Universal%20Brochure%20Wing%20Comparison.pdf . They also have smaller 110 and 150mm but they seem to small and the 300mm wich is too big. Optically I would choose the 225mm with a 1400mm span (1100mm is the width of the car at the upper trunk lid) so it would stick out about 150mm on each side. These extra 150mm will bring even greater benefit since they sit in clean air. On their link, at 8deg AOA and 100mph, the 1400mm span wing can bring about 600-650N (65Kg). Now, you said the Golf has about 5kg lift at the front and 35kg at the rear so the 65kg added would mean a 65-35 = 30kg of downforce. Is this little or much, I don't know, especially knowing we have to properly balance the car. Probably a too high downforce wing at the rear would lift the front (this can be seen on Reverie's tests on racing cars where they've added 800% more downforce over a street 911 GT3 > http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/ReveriePorscheData.pdf )
Questions with the rear wing :
- For an universal wing we'd probably need custom legs. How will we fix the wing to the upper trunk lid (where the brake light is > this can be seen on Bildon's wing but no close pics to get an exact clue)
- For a 1500kg GTI with 60/40 weight distribution, what would be the best ratio between added front downforce and rear downforce (taking into account the OEM GTI levels of -5kg front and -35kg rear@200kmh)
- What would be the approximate downforce increse with the lowering of the car (most of us already have coilovers with 30-40mm lowering wich should help as well when a front air dam/splitter or rear diffuser is fitted)
- Finally, let's say we bring an addition of 50kg of downforce@160kmh. How much would that increase the cornering g for a car as the one described above ?(let's say with no downforce I get 1.1g at that speed with the mods I already got)
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Note that 5 kg + 35 kg lift is at 200 km/h. R32 and Golf VI R have similar values.
From what I remember the Scirocco R Cup has a total downforce about 20 - 50 kg
at 200 km/h. I cannot find this data at the moment.
I'm pretty sure adding 65 kg dowforce at 160 km/h will be a significient improvement.
Creating downforce on front for a proper balance will be easier. The VWR + splitter
you told about will be the best way I guess. The VWR looks similar to the Rieger.
The more depth a wing profile has the more efficient it is. You will reach the downforce
to need with less angle. A gurney and end plates increases efficiency even more.
First the suspension has to be setup properly before you add any downforce. There
might be some potential now as you have reduced some weight. But as a last step
with this downforce you will be able to setup the rear suspension more ''tail happy'',
so that handling gets the right way: quick response and less understeer in narrow
corners and ''safe'' in fast corners.
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Bruce, my car is already tail happy because of the light rear and stiff sway-bar (remember I have 27mm RSB and 26mm FSB). From what I feel from inside the car, it is not understeering at all at this point, but the rear feels a little unstable onhill tops or sudden steering inputs. I made some calculs but won't post them here since we're off topic already. Here's what I found...please add your opinion > http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12484.75.html
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Hi guys, just hoping for some help regarding the plastic spreader rivets. Would a tool like this allow me to install them?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=10151&storeId=10001&productId=211934&categoryId=165572&langId=-1
Thanks
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Hi guys, just hoping for some help regarding the plastic spreader rivets. Would a tool like this allow me to install them?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=10151&storeId=10001&productId=211934&categoryId=165572&langId=-1
Thanks
You don't need a tool to put the rivets in they re plastic and just push in :happy2:
Darren
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Thankyou :drinking: :drinking:
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I am going to get the bolt hole in my subframe drilled and tapped and order a new blue motion undertray.
Has anyone considered using a spacer(s) on the 3 bolts to ensure the under tray doesn't contact the subframe?
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Why this, Mike?
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I've got an 06 GTI that unfortunately didn't have the nearside threaded bolt to accommodate the Rear axle cover. Since I had the car in the air, I removed the nut off of the axle cover just used a zip tie to secure that end. It seems very secure so I'm going to leave it that way and not resort to drilling and using a blind rivet stud.
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It seems very secure so I'm going to leave it that way and not resort to drilling and using a blind rivet stud.
I hope it's strong enough, but I'd say drilling + blind rivet stud would be the best option. :wink:
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By far most important:
Drive slow and steady. In a GTI, the highest revs before the turbo kicks in, in the highest gear. Equates to around 56-60mph.
:happy2: :happy2: :happy2:
From the technical side of view:
- fit OEM aero parts: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22986.0.html
- lowering
- narrow wheels (ET50, 7" wide, no spacers)
- Michelin Energy Savers + increase pressure
- low viscosity oil (0W-30)
At higher speeds air drag is most sigificient. So underbody mods and lowering
will reduce drag by a certain amount:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1327321132_3041.jpg&hash=5f24fc09094423c0a7f96469a71e02ff333e178c)
or buy a Mercedes:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf5gti.com%2Fupload%2Favatars%2Futool_f_1327321691_3041.jpg&hash=370cf605466a8dae2e844518f18965d9976192c7)
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Getting the front tray fitted to mine very soon :)
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did mine last week and while i had the car lifted cleaned the underside and suspension parts thoroughly
I'm hoping this under tray helps keep things cleaner
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I've read this all a copy times still not 100%
Is its worth getting these extra panels under the car!
What sort of cost are you looking at?
And are you getting and noticeable gain fuel handling speed????
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yes, worth it
< 100 pounds
yes, if you drive some motorway
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the front under tray is certainly worth the £30 as the OEM one is useless. the bigger one covers the whole sump and gearbox and protects the subframe a lot more
I'm going to try the exhaust shield and tank shield also just to keep the underbody clean more than anything
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Tank shield is easy on late model Mk.Vs as these already have the thread on the subframe tube.
I'd never fit the center exhaust shield again on a GTI as fitting requirers some cutting on the plastic shield.
Just do engine bay cover + tank/rear axle. :wink:
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i have a non resonated system so don't think mine would require much cutting
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Ok, I didn't know this. Then it's easy.
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Great read - took ages though!
I am going to order the whole kit. I am a little confused at all the part numbers though. I am assuming this is all I need? Is there anything for the Leon Cupra R rear diffuser and side skirts too?
Extra lumps 1K0 825 001 B x1
1K0 825 002 B x1
N 909 591 01 fixing kit x4
N 103 546 02 fixing kit x10
the 4 are little push on metal clips to allow the screws to thread into (like you see to hold speakers in place, and 10 are scews with washers. The lumps are about £5 each
This is the rest of what I ordered
Full VW Golf Engine under tray
(x1) 1K0 825 237 P Undertray £26.24
(x3) 1K0 825 951 Hex headed bolt (Combi) 80p each M6X20 hex socket head bolt
Rear axle cover as fitted to VW Golf bluemotion
(x1) 1K0 501 713 D Trim for Rear Axle £25.03 3C0 501 713
(x1) 1K0 501 682 Retaining bracket £1.67
(x1) N 905 483 05 Retaining bolt 47p
(x1) N 901 838 02 Retaining bolt £1.63
Rear arm covers from Audi TT
(x1) 1K0 511 539 E Stone chip Guard £4.69
(x1) 1K0 511 540 C Stone Chip Guard £5.91
(x4) 8E0 825 267 A spreader rivet 10p each
(x2) 1K0 609 734 C brake cable clamp 76p each
(x2) N 102 854 02 Bolt 18p each
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Had the front tray fitted this morning. It is a little bit quieter but the main reasons I added it was to stop so much crud getting in underneath and also for stability on track days :)
Not bad for £50 odd fitted.
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i got mine new from snoopy on here. took 5 minutes to fit and I'm sure it kept the underside a lot cleaner
I've noticed oil temperature is 2-4 degrees c higher though but otherwise its fine.
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I've noticed oil temperature is 2-4 degrees c higher though but otherwise its fine.
Some advantage at this season. It also might 'hold' the temperature for not-so-long stops.
With the larger cover my summer peak temperature was 113° C - so not any problem at all.
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well mine gets nowhere near that so i guess its fine. mine is usually between 100-105 degrees depending. i guess the freezing cold UK has something to with that.
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Sorry to be a pain - using my iPhone when travelling. Are the part numbers I listed above the correct ones?
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Sorry to be a pain - using my iPhone when travelling. Are the part numbers I listed above the correct ones?
Yes but ignore the 3C0 501 713 item.
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I did not compare all of them, but the main parts are correct from what I remember.
(I do remember them as I was talking about them so often last four years) :wink:
Yes, ignore the 3C0 ... .
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Hey, fitted both the engine undertray and rear axle cover. When fitting the rear axle cover, did anyone else find it sits slightly proud of the fuel tank and seems quite flexible? I'm just worried about air getting underneath and ripping it off! Other than that, good mods easy to do on the drive :)
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anyone more doing these mods?
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Leon + gearbox tech:
http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=154146121&o=int&prev=si
diffusers:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/technology-explained/diffusers-engineering-basics-aerodynamics/
wings:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/f1/f1-adjustable-rear-wings-how-they-work/
ducts:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/technology-explained/f-ducts-how-do-they-work-f1-2010-formula-one-technology/
why sportscars fly:
http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=317303168&o=int&prev=si
perfect suspension:
http://gb.zinio.com/browse/issues/index.jsp?skuId=104231626
suspension secrets + differential equations:
http://gb.zinio.com/browse/issues/index.jsp?skuId=69319186
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/download/
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anyone more doing these mods?
I plan to refit the bluemotion undertray as I broke my last one
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Price for all the parts is £137.38 from TPS
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Hi, www.lllparts.co.uk has pretty good VAG prices.