MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: NeilM on February 23, 2009, 07:17:12 pm
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After a friend had said the handling and traction of his tuned S4 was transformed by this company, and after a trip into the gravel, I gave them a go last week.
Center Gravity is owner and run by Chris Franklin, he’s the type of guy you rarely meet with such a passion for his job, Geometry and Suspension, you can see he doesn’t mind getting up in the morning.
Although he is a Porsche, club and track car specialist he works on any chassis and suspension, they provide factory and tailored chassis setups, ride height setting, damper force setting, 4 wheel alignment and corner weighting.
He started off by weighing me and my wheelchair (for a bit of a laugh) on the 4 corner balancing pads, this was in itself quite interesting, apparently I’m 78% / 22% weight bias to the rear wheels and lean slightly to the left.
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The car is loaded with your weight accordingly.
As I only have KW variant 1 the emphasise was on 4 wheel laser alignment using his Beissbath Microline Kit and ride height setting.
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The Beissbath is a proper bit of kit loaded with the VAG Gti data it gives measurements on everything including Camber, cross Camber, Individual Toe, Caster, K.P.I, Toe out on Turns and Setback.
Now I’ve got to be honest I didn’t know what any of that was but Chris explained each step and asked what I wanted from the car and set it accordingly, I did suffer from a case of information overload and do hope I was nodding and saying “that’s good†at the appropriate times.
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As I drive via hand controls my driving technique is not the same as using the foot pedals and this was taken into consideration, my main objectives where increased cornering grip (back wheels in particular), better braking, predictable handling which would mean better lap times (hopefully).
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After the adjustments we set off on a test drive along a route he uses to access the vehicle, sweeping A roads, bumpy B roads etc, I had to check I’d got in the right car I was very impressed, it’s amazing to think what just a half degree of Toe or Camber adjustment can make. The increased grip in corners give you a lot more confidence to push the car harder, I understand now when people talk about the car feeling ‘Planted’ and you notice better traction from standing starts (and I always thought ‘Toe In’ was just a kinky fetish!).
After a week I have found it noticeably harder to get my old friend TC to give me a flash, whereas before it was a constant companion.
Chris (The G Man from now on) gives print outs of all Geometry Measurements before and after even gives you a camera to use, it’s a fascinating procedure if you’re into that sort of thing, and not a 5 minute job expect at least half a day watching a man in his element, perhaps the best compliment would be the misses driving it for the first time and saying “what have you done to the car?â€Â.
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Neil.
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looks and sounds impressive ...... although I have no idea what them graphs mean :signIWS:
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Just nod and look impressed, :happy2:
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Sounds good Neil.
If i may be as bold, how much did he charge?
:happy2:
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unbelievable Neil, I can guarantee there aint gonna be another thread like this anywhere :drinking:
does your rear weight bias effect your fwd handling :grin:
does the carbon chair weigh what they say it does?
Great info and lots of detail, are all the available settings adjustable on the std car ?
In terms of the measurements , whats different from recommended specs?
doesnt seem to have changed much from intial to final? I can see toe out on turn has a big diff.
Great article , I want to go now :driver:
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More negative camber on the rear than the front will certainly give you a solid rear.. But do you not feel that you have a lot of high speed understeer?
Also they have toe out on the rear? Or am I reading the graph incorrectly?
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Sounds good Neil.
If i may be as bold, how much did he charge?
:happy2:
Also included is:
Tyre data check and adjust (tread wear across the tyre)
Pre load car with weight
Ride height check
Geometry baseline check
Geometry adjustments
Test drive
Reports
£199 + vat
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unbelievable Neil, I can guarantee there aint gonna be another thread like this anywhere :drinking:
does your rear weight bias effect your fwd handling :grin:
does the carbon chair weigh what they say it does?
Great info and lots of detail, are all the available settings adjustable on the std car ?
In terms of the measurements , whats different from recommended specs?
doesnt seem to have changed much from intial to final? I can see toe out on turn has a big diff.
Its a Kuschall R33 (yes really 'R33') custom made in Switzerland, Carbon fibre and Titainium with Mono shock under seat and is about 10kg without the cushion, it understeers, wheelspins in the snow, eats tyres and I try to avoid pot holes, all in all, much like my car.
The Beissbath kit works within VAG target data and all the adjustment (apart from H&R anti roll bar) are on the std car, some just a fraction of a degree.
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Chris did made a note of this and said the rear ARB link would perform much better at a more vertical angle.
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More negative camber on the rear than the front will certainly give you a solid rear.. But do you not feel that you have a lot of high speed understeer?
Also they have toe out on the rear? Or am I reading the graph incorrectly?
I've gotta say jonny I went in without any knowledge of geometry and I really did need him to give me 'the idiots guide'. The main thing for me was predictable handling, particularly as one hand is on the hand controls all the time and this is what he'll take into consideration.
I'm not sure if the +0.22 or the +0.00 is the rear toe out reading?
Looking forward to a warm track day, keep you posted. :happy2:
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Excellent review - thats me converted... looks like I'ill be paying a visit in a few months :evilgrin:
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thanks for the comprehensive reply Neil. :happy2:
Did you get a pic / values for the corner weighting etc for the car?
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....
Brilliant review, Neil :happy2:
Perhaps now people will realise that modding a car to handle well isn't just about getting a cool low look and stance.
There's nothing quite like the feeling of a well planted car (mine was setup by Mark Farmer at VWRacing).
A professionally done setup will also combine well with your Quaife. That'll give the new RS something to think about!
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I'm going to pay this guy a visit after I get my top mounts and polybushes done :jumpmove:
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I'm going to pay this guy a visit after I get my top mounts and polybushes done :jumpmove:
....Seriously good idea, Nadeem!
It's great having power but when you can get it down on the road (or track) and enjoy good handling, your confidence soars and so does the feeling of having fun!
:jumpmove:
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Chris did made a note of this and said the rear ARB link would perform much better at a more vertical angle.
....Is that link ^ how it now is or how it was, Neil?
Mine is set on the other hole (harder) to your pic above.
:happy2:
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my eibach arb is also set on the inside hole,
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Geometry is absolute key, it is the glue that holds all your mods together.
After I had mine tweaked to a more track/fast road set up it completely changed the car. Turn in improved greatly as the tail was much easier to bring into play and traction improved to the point where I don't actually miss not having a diff.
It's lively, but I wouldn't think twice about letting the missus take it out.
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my eibachs were initially set on stiff front and rear. I then changed the front one to the softer setting and the turn in was improved
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Chris did made a note of this and said the rear ARB link would perform much better at a more vertical angle.
....Is that link ^ how it now is or how it was, Neil?
Mine is set on the other hole (harder) to your pic above.
:happy2:
That is actually the hardest setting on the rear ARB. My Whiteline ARBs have three holes, but I can't actually remember how much they cant over the drop link :ashamed: Anyway, 'softer' is always closer to the pivot point of the ARB.
Great post Neil, btw! :happy2:
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Chris did made a note of this and said the rear ARB link would perform much better at a more vertical angle.
....Is that link ^ how it now is or how it was, Neil?
Mine is set on the other hole (harder) to your pic above.
:happy2:
That is actually the hardest setting on the rear ARB. My Whiteline ARBs have three holes, but I can't actually remember how much they cant over the drop link :ashamed: Anyway, 'softer' is always closer to the pivot point of the ARB.
Great post Neil, btw! :happy2:
Hello golf fans,
Noticed this post and thought i'd pop in to say that actually red robin is correct in this instance. With an adjustable arb, softest setting is always at the END of the bar. I enjoy looking at this forum, some great cars and posts here.
All the best, tommy.