MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: VC on March 02, 2011, 10:54:45 am
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Well my postie as just popped round, they sacked him this morning :confused:
Long story short, he's worked at the P.O. for 20 years and was escorted off the PO premises for swearing and sacked on the spot. According to him they all swear down there so its odd that this has happened to him and he's utterly devastated to say the least.
The guy is a total legend, would do anything for anybody and one of the nicest guys you could meet - ive known him for 5 years now and always have a natter in the morning when he delivers the post. His wife is ill and he's a dad to two disabled children and now quite rightly fearing the future as he's not a spring chicken and he's got a big mortgage.
now aside from the whole getting sacked issue and any action and claims he can make (he's got a family friend who's a solicitor to help in that department) he's asked me to write him a character reference
this is what i could do with some help on, never done one for someone before and i'm very pleased he's asked me to help him by doing one so dont want to stuff it up!
anyone offer any pointers? what should i be saying? i'm totally clueless and want to do it justice :happy2:
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I would start by writing exactly what you think of the guy. Once you start to get some notes down I think it will fall into place.
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As Stu says. Write down exactly what you think of him.
Then once you have done that condense it into about a paragraph in size as you don't want to appear to be "sucking him off". It just needs to be truthful and succinct. An example could be something like:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Character Reference for: X
I have known X for 5 years.
In this time he has been our regular postman and therefore i have seen him most days. He is always punctual, well turned out and carries out his work with care and diligence. A very sociable person, he has always been willing to stop and have a chat. I have found him on all occasions to be pleasant, polite and courteous when dealing with members of the public.
X would be a tremendous asset to your company and i would recommend him to anyone without reservation. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me
Yours Sincerely
Very Cherry
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excellent ^^^ :happy2:
thats my worry i think, i dont want to appear to be blowing sunshine up his a$$ and need to keep it so he can use it to his benefit to gain employment
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Then tell him to go to the solicitor and take his employer to court, no employer can sack someone on the spot for swearing ! depending on what he said ?
But even still his payout if he won would be massive for 20 years service !
:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
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Then tell him to go to the solicitor and take his employer to court, no employer can sack someone on the spot for swearing ! depending on what he said ?
But even still his payout if he won would be massive for 20 years service !
:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
thats what i said to him, but the PO recently made them all sit down and watch a video about swearing in the workplace starring some east enders cast members, and its this new policy they have got him on. He's also said that every postie has now signed a petition stating they all swear in the workplace and so they should all be sacked in that case... fallen on deaf ears though
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He still has a case, their are certain swear words that are in the dictionary ! so they cant stop you from saying that, plus you can stop people swearing by watching a video !
i would very very surprised if the Post Office sacked him because they made him watch a video and after it he swore !
If it is ! then he would easily win any case !
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I would tend to agree that swearing in the workplace is very common and possibly being a little harsh to sack somone however there will be some other factors to consider.
There are two sides to every story, has he been warned before?? I would think immediate dismissal would have to follow a series of verbal and written warnings.
All it would take is for somone to make a complaint that they found what he said disturbing and offensive. E&D law in the workplace is pretty tough these days, it only takes some complaints and you're done for.
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E&D law in the workplace is pretty tough these days, it only takes some complaints and you're done for.
I best learn to curb the Squaddie Humour then before i leave or ill be well fcuked :laugh: :laugh:
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I would keep it simple.
Tell them he is f*cking legend and the best f*cking postie in your area. That should do it. :laugh:
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I'd be careful about saying something along the lines of very sociable and always willing to stop and have a chat - its not what he's employed for and might go against him.
Polite and curteous certainly :happy2:
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I would keep it simple.
Tell them he is f*cking legend and the best f*cking postie in your area. That should do it. :laugh:
.... :signLOL: :laugh: :signLOL: :laugh: :happy2:
Otherwise, I agree with Stu and Carl. I had thought of adding a short paragraph about putting things into perspective regarding use of language (aka swearing) but as there appears to be some utterly OTT PC-crap formal policy it would only give them the opportunity to quote it against him.
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the PO recently made them all sit down and watch a video about swearing in the workplace starring some east enders cast members, and its this new policy they have got him on. He's also said that every postie has now signed a petition stating they all swear in the workplace and so they should all be sacked in that case... fallen on deaf ears though
....That's outrageous!! :fighting:
I agree wholeheartedly with what Stu says about prior warnings/discussion etc before giving notice but i think that the whole policy is flawed except in certain individual circumstances.
Swearing is uttered either because someone is uneducated and has a very limited command of the English language, or as a safety valve regarding emotion. To remove a safety valve is potentially very dangerous. Having worked on a factory floor (MOD work as it happens) for a year I have of course experienced a lot of swearing. And I have also made some very genuine friends from amongst those fellow workers. The F-word in particular is simply an everyday part of some folks vocabulary around here - No big deal.
They'll be claiming that using a swear word is tantamount to assault next!
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Cheers for all the advice it's appreciated :happy2:
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Sacked on the spot implies gross misconduct which should be well defined in the contract of employment.
Other examples include chinning someone and turning up drunk, so to have done this they have taken the most severe form of action.
If I were the postie I would be checking all and any contractual documentation pertaining to gross misconduct.
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Sacked on the spot implies gross misconduct which should be well defined in the contract of employment.
Other examples include chinning someone and turning up drunk, so to have done this they have taken the most severe form of action.
If I were the postie I would be checking all and any contractual documentation pertaining to gross misconduct.
....By going in the first instance to Citizens Advice Bureau and secondly to a specialist employment lawyer :happy2:
We don't actually know the full story and it is possible that this fine figure of a postie has another darker side to him. [OMG! Have I just said something racist?]
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That maybe Robin but we can only go on the facts as presented to us.
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its would be out of character for him to have a dark side imho, however for all i know he could have...
he's coming round tomorrow to collect the reference so will type one up later so will have a chat with him to see if i can fill in some blanks
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If that was my employer I'd turn and say "See you in fu*king court"! lol
I also dont think an employer can sack someone for swearing, unless there have been formal verbal and written warnings in the past. There is definately a case there.
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Very susupicious. Either he's been very naughty and this was the final straw, or else the PO have a watertight case. I can't imagine they'd fire someone just for that.
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Very susupicious. Either he's been very naughty and this was the final straw, or else the PO have a watertight case. I can't imagine they'd fire someone just for that.
....My thinking too, which is why I suggested we don't know the full story (both sides of the issue). Nowadays an employer will check their legal position very carefully before taking such an action. Otherwise it can get very expensive and shareholders aren't pleased.
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I've just come from a two day course on all aspects of hiring / reprimanding and eventually firing people. It is a mine field and getting rid of someone is very very difficult. In my company you cant have a disciplinary hearing without HR present and HR won't even entertain you unless you have paperwork in place demonstrating that you have had ongoing performance issues and informal discussions with the individual prior to even having the first disciplinary hearing.
If he was swearing AT someone that would easily be considered bullying / intimidation and could be grounds for instant dismissal as threatening behavior... but the individual circumstances would have to be fully understood and I would be uneasy about using that tool in those circumstances if the culture (it sounds like a pretty bad culture) allows it at present.
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VC, if you could find a bit more background info and maybe PM me, I'm very friendly with the local CWU reps and could get hold of the regional rep easily. I would like to hear what their slant is on this as I've never come accross such a case especially in this part of the world.
I know Royal Mail have had all sorts of issues with bullying and harrassment and spend their life brainwashing staff into being PC androids. However I know for a fact that it is a fairly male dominated workforce and that for many years most of the staff were ex-military and any new entrants were always asked at interview stage whether they could cope with a fairly 'colourful' work envoironment.
I would think someone who had years of service should be able to argue a very strong case that they were unwittingly using that sort of language because that's what they had more or less been brought up on.
I deal with fairly senior management every day that use very colourful language so would be happy to add my tuppence worth to the arguement as long as I didn't have to name names!!! :laugh: