MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: SteveP on April 21, 2011, 09:03:58 pm
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Just interested to know why people have chosen either the internals kits (like Autotech, KMD, etc) or a fully built APR pump?
Is the APR hype really worth the difference or is a properly fitted internals kits just as good?
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opens a cold tinny and gets a ring side seat. :popcornsoda:
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I am hoping for a clean fight :grin: :grin:
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I chose autotech as I wanted to fit myself and it was not a apply to the bank for a loan amount of money thanks to PDT :happy2:
Edit also I would like to see the internals of a Apr to see the difference as I bet most the price comes from it being a new pump apart from the new internals.!!!
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money no object id go apr as it doesnt have the stepped design (which according to JKM is the cause of the seals failing on the autotech pumps).
However at the time i thought it was just another overpriced APR product and i went for autotech HPFPs as more guys were using it than any other
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I chose apr on my old ed30 purely for peace of mind, read a few too many stories of rebuilt ones going wrong and after spending £22k on the car plus another few grand plus the rest on mods :ashamed: whats another few hundred for a quality piece, tried and tested :happy2:
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Is this question for when you choose a pump for a MK5???
APR all the way. Spend the money, get the performance.
This is all from my experiences using, fitting and repairing different pumps.
KMD - I have had loads of failures that have cost lots of money to fit. When they had the coating, they would sieze, break the follower and fook the cam. I hear they are better now they have done away with the coating, but their customer support was a joke.
Autotech - Not had a problem with these apart from the way they can allow fuel to pass through the seal and mix with the oil. Bad news for rings, bores and bearings. Personally, I have only felt the horrible 5.5k flat spot with the autotech pumps.
APR - fully built, tested and ready to go, great customer support too. Piston design wont put pressure on the seals and there is a larger surface area on the follow which seams to cause less wear on the followers. I have APR's fitted to loads of cars inc X-bows which are abused for hours on track days and are still perfect. Ive not had any pressure drops or flat spots on the cars ive fitted the pump to.
:drinking:
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Reasons why I went with the APR pump are summed up here - http://www.goapr.com/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html (http://www.goapr.com/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html) :happy2:
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Is this question for when you choose a pump for a MK5???
APR all the way. Spend the money, get the performance.
This is all from my experiences using, fitting and repairing different pumps.
KMD - I have had loads of failures that have cost lots of money to fit. When they had the coating, they would sieze, break the follower and fook the cam. I hear they are better now they have done away with the coating, but their customer support was a joke.
Autotech - Not had a problem with these apart from the way they can allow fuel to pass through the seal and mix with the oil. Bad news for rings, bores and bearings. Personally, I have only felt the horrible 5.5k flat spot with the autotech pumps.
APR - fully built, tested and ready to go, great customer support too. Piston design wont put pressure on the seals and there is a larger surface area on the follow which seams to cause less wear on the followers. I have APR's fitted to loads of cars inc X-bows which are abused for hours on track days and are still perfect. Ive not had any pressure drops or flat spots on the cars ive fitted the pump to.
:drinking:
Yes for pump's for the Mk5 or anything TFSI based.
Interesting point about the 5.5k flat spot :happy2:
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I chose the APR as it was the only tried and tested design, my decision in going for the APR was made stronger as someone just had a failure on the forum at the time from one of the other manufacturers, at the end of the day there are not many failures on the autotechs probably mainly due to fitting technique, but i decided to pay double and not take the risk ! and id do the same again, as the resale value is very good :smiley:
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APR clearly the way to go if yo can afford but i hear from well respected sources that the only time Autotech failed was when not fitted properly ie not sealed with some clean engine oil, if the person fitting it has the competence eg PDT then should be worry free as long as keep checking cam follower and smelling dipstick :wink:
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APR for me.
Largely for the reasons above but also because I went to the US and bought one there. :happy2:
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APR for me.
Largely for the reasons above but also because I went to the US and bought one two there. :happy2:
I fixed it for you. :wink:
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APR all the way.
I had Autotech internals in mine. On Stage 2 I never got more than 256bhp with them. Swapped to an APR pump and the power went up to 270bhp. Nothing else changed on the car and logging wise the Autotech was apparently making the requested rail pressure. However as the autotechs started to fail I had the APR put on and wish I had done it in the first place.
Autotechs will fail over time. I installed mine myself and they lasted 50k miles ( so obviously no issues with the install ) the problem is the stepped piston and not the competence of the installer as long as they know what they are doing. Or have a hotline to a man that does :grin:
As the saying goes. Buy cheap buy twice.
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I've got an APR pump. I bought if for the reliability issues and and fact that I can sell on as a complete unit for decent money when I'm done.
HOWEVER I got the flat spot issue at 5500rpm, which appeared not long after the pump was fitted. :surprised:
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opens a cold tinny and gets a ring side seat. :popcornsoda:
:signLOL:
I've seen these threads get a bit "tasty" on other forums!
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APR all the way.
I had Autotech internals in mine. On Stage 2 I never got more than 256bhp with them. Swapped to an APR pump and the power went up to 270bhp. Nothing else changed on the car and logging wise the Autotech was apparently making the requested rail pressure. However as the autotechs started to fail I had the APR put on and wish I had done it in the first place.
Autotechs will fail over time. I installed mine myself and they lasted 50k miles ( so obviously no issues with the install ) the problem is the stepped piston and not the competence of the installer as long as they know what they are doing. Or have a hotline to a man that does :grin:
off to New york and Boston in summer so do you think i will ge able to pick an APR pump up from the seller at bottom of statue of liberty? mmmm a e mail to APR may be in order ie nearest stockist in those cities (will i get it back past MI5 though?)
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Ages ago i chose APR for peace of mind, and as i had a spare HPFP it went to APR USA. Within 14 days it returned and has worked flawlessly for 50k kilometers now. Only considered the opposision for a very short time. A no brainer in my book. :happy2:
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I had an Autotech one fitted as JBS did their Phase 2+ mapping on my car and automatically used the Autotech one. I've never had any issues with the pump and would happily use Autotech again if the occasion arose. :smiley:
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Steve, I meant for when you get a MK5 again :happy2:
I've got an APR pump. I bought if for the reliability issues and and fact that I can sell on as a complete unit for decent money when I'm done.
HOWEVER I got the flat spot issue at 5500rpm, which appeared not long after the pump was fitted. :surprised:
Interesting that you have had the flat spot. I would say you have a weak fuel pressure return valve or the map is asking too much.
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Steve, I meant for when you get a MK5 again :happy2:
Me get a Mk5 again, what ever give you that idea :grin: :grin:
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Steve, I meant for when you get a MK5 again :happy2:
I've got an APR pump. I bought if for the reliability issues and and fact that I can sell on as a complete unit for decent money when I'm done.
HOWEVER I got the flat spot issue at 5500rpm, which appeared not long after the pump was fitted. :surprised:
Interesting that you have had the flat spot. I would say you have a weak fuel pressure return valve or the map is asking too much.
Is that something that can be cured with the RS4 valve? Need to get it sorted soon. its doing my head in. My REVO setting are St 2 B7, F7, T5, other mods are TBE and ITG intake?
Sorry for thread hijack Steve.
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off to New york and Boston in summer so do you think i will ge able to pick an APR pump up from the seller at bottom of statue of liberty? mmmm a e mail to APR may be in order ie nearest stockist in those cities (will i get it back past MI5 though?)
As Hedge so kindly pointed out I indeed brought two back with me :evilgrin:
A word of caution when bringing stuff back from the US, don't do what I did and bring Megs Clay Bars back in your luggage, especially hand luggage. That is of course unless you like to trigger alerts in the airport and you are turned on by the 'thwap' of a rubber glove being stretched onto a burly security guards hand. :ashamed: The look of panic in the eyes of the girl behind us was priceless, her boyfriend also had several bars in their hand luggage
I sent two new pumps via UPS to an APR dealer in the US he had them sent to APR for upgrade and then had them UPS'd to the hotel on arrival. :drinking:
I do have a contact if you need it.
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Steve, I meant for when you get a MK5 again :happy2:
Me get a Mk5 again, what ever give you that idea :grin: :grin:
Dont you mean who ever gave me that idea :grin:
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Steve, I meant for when you get a MK5 again :happy2:
I've got an APR pump. I bought if for the reliability issues and and fact that I can sell on as a complete unit for decent money when I'm done.
HOWEVER I got the flat spot issue at 5500rpm, which appeared not long after the pump was fitted. :surprised:
Interesting that you have had the flat spot. I would say you have a weak fuel pressure return valve or the map is asking too much.
Is that something that can be cured with the RS4 valve? Need to get it sorted soon. its doing my head in. My REVO setting are St 2 B7, F7, T5, other mods are TBE and ITG intake?
Sorry for thread hijack Steve.
I always run the fuel at 9 on most cars. On all the cars ive fitted the RS4 valve to that have had the flat spot, its dramatically improved the flat spot and held the correct pressure. The valve is only £30 + vat and an hours fitting so well worth the upgrade.
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Where did you guys source your APR pump from? Can it be purchased straight from APR US?
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I'm running an APR pump, mainly because I got a great deal in the for sale section on one. It has been great so far :)
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Where did you guys source your APR pump from? Can it be purchased straight from APR US?
I have new and used ones in stock :happy2:
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People will buy different products for different reasons, in the early years KMD were one of the first with a pump, but did have a few failures due to the design (including one of REVO's own cars). Autotech had a few failures early on as well, but we are talkng a handfull of cases in literally thousands of pumps.
I have sold too many autotech pumps to count, hundreds to Greece and Portugal, Spain, Norway.... and plenty here in the UK. From these I have not had one back for any warranty claim. If you want a cost effective, safe and reliable way to install an internals only kit then its your only real option. If you want a fully built pump and dont mind paying the extra then APR pump is ideal.
As for the flatspot issue, I have seen this on stock, Revo tuned, Unbranded maps, Superchips and right accross the 2.0 TFSi engine range. I have also seen it with Autotech and APR equipped cars. I have been able to work around the flatspot with mapping in most cases but dont believe its a pump issue.
Seal failure is the big issue with autotech pumps, the 2 I have seen with seal failure were both due to incorrect installation (not lubricating the pump shaft during installation through the seal housing) and this is where APR win hands down, installation isnt an issue.
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People will buy different products for different reasons, in the early years KMD were one of the first with a pump, but did have a few failures due to the design (including one of REVO's own cars). Autotech had a few failures early on as well, but we are talkng a handfull of cases in literally thousands of pumps.
I have sold too many autotech pumps to count, hundreds to Greece and Portugal, Spain, Norway.... and plenty here in the UK. From these I have not had one back for any warranty claim. If you want a cost effective, safe and reliable way to install an internals only kit then its your only real option. If you want a fully built pump and dont mind paying the extra then APR pump is ideal.
As for the flatspot issue, I have seen this on stock, Revo tuned, Unbranded maps, Superchips and right accross the 2.0 TFSi engine range. I have also seen it with Autotech and APR equipped cars. I have been able to work around the flatspot with mapping in most cases but dont believe its a pump issue.
Seal failure is the big issue with autotech pumps, the 2 I have seen with seal failure were both due to incorrect installation (not lubricating the pump shaft during installation through the seal housing) and this is where APR win hands down, installation isnt an issue.
That's some fine info, but not what this tread asked for, what pump are you running and what considerations did you make before choosing?? :happy2:
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yes Danish, spose you are right.
On my own car(s) I used autotch both times, purely down to cost and availability over the APR pump.
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yes Danish, spose you are right.
On my own car(s) I used autotch both times, purely down to cost and availability over the APR pump.
Even though i use APR myself, i have assisted a friend in getting an Autotech for his Passat as i find (after skimming the web) it to be near as good as the APR, only difference is it's not tested, so i follow you PDT :drinking:
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I have a follower :star:
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I have a follower :star:
:laugh: :signLOL:
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I'll be going APR when the time comes, peace of mind is priceless for me :happy2:
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Thanks to everyone for the opinions and info :happy2:
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As for the flatspot issue, I have seen this on stock, Revo tuned, Unbranded maps, Superchips and right accross the 2.0 TFSi engine range. I have also seen it with Autotech and APR equipped cars. I have been able to work around the flatspot with mapping in most cases but dont believe its a pump issue.
While trying to get to the bottom of my flat spot issue I switched the map off and still get it (although its less pronouced). At first I only noticed it intermitently (not long after pump fitted) and now all the time.
Do you think that the pump and the map (or one or other or combination of) has weaked my fuel pressure regulator. More importantly I guessing if that is the case and I understand yours and Alex's posts is that if I replace the valve with an RS4 version I may cure the flat spot. :popcornsoda:
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RS4 valve might cure it, what brand of map are you running? :smiley:
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RS4 valve might cure it, what brand of map are you running? :smiley:
REVO St 2.
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Not 2+?
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Not 2+?
I was advised that stage 2+ gives mostly a big increase in mid range torque rather than out and out top end power. That and I like the power to be as linear as possible, preserve my clutch and maintain traction as much as possible. Although I may try it at some point to see what all the fuss is about. Just want to get this flat spot fixed and my twintercooler on first.
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2+ gives a noticable increase throughout the rev range and the way the power is delivered can be setup with the revo software.
Well worth the upgrade to 2+.
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Thanks for the opinions and thoughts everyone, I have made my choice
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-8.jpg&hash=c3302b43e1eb32971fb347f11f4c300fcc6b962a)
:happy2:
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Thanks for the opinions and thoughts everyone, I have made my choice
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-8.jpg&hash=c3302b43e1eb32971fb347f11f4c300fcc6b962a)
:happy2:
:congrats: :congrats:
and the new car is?? :innocent:
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^^^ You will find out when it's ready :innocent:
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Hmm...not a golf R, RS3 or ED30.
Another mk5? GTI? R32? S3?
'Fess up, or I'll come down your house and take pics! :P
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I would love to see you get crazy with a blue mk 6 R, i just looked at one with manual, only 80k £ used :stupid: here in Denmark
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I would love to see you get crazy with a blue mk 6 R, i just looked at one with manual, only 80k £ used :stupid: here in Denmark
The Mk6 R just doesn't do for me, I can see the potential with them but just not different enough from what I have now.
All will be revealed soon :innocent:
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Well it is obviously something 2.0TFSi based. So it's either
Golf R (already refuted)
Rocco R
S3 (already refuted that)
A3 S Line
A4 S Line
A5 S Line
Cupra (I doubt it)
Cant think of anything else that you would want that has a TFSi engine.
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Anyone seen his Mk2 GTI of late :grin:
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But he's been asking about things like front grilles/bumpers. :popcornsoda:
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It's gotta be a skoda :grin:
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It's gotta be a skoda :grin:
If Hedge had his way :laugh: :laugh:
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It's gotta be a skoda :grin:
If Hedge had his way :laugh: :laugh:
Oy don't drag me into this. :P
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If Hedge had his way :laugh: :laugh:
I don't think there's a question of if. When Hedge is there, I imagine you have to just bend over and take it. :grin:
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Well I think you're a VW man really so it's gotta be a Mk5 again with turbo. Which one is debatable. Tho u are getting into track days so creating a weekend toy maybe
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Good choice on the pump :happy2:
It will work great on the MK* that your getting :P
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Ktm xbow?
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But he's been asking about things like front grilles/bumpers. :popcornsoda:
Remember hes been asking about 2 cars not just one. A TDI for commute and another one for the rest of the time.
The two cars will be mine, one will be using the devils dirty fuel to bring down my £1k a month fuel bill :sick:
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Good choice on the pump :happy2:
It will work great on the MK* that your getting :P
Same to you :P :laugh: :laugh:
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Ktm xbow?
Steves new car?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ffordkaracing%2FBackdraft%2FX-BowNewColour.jpg&hash=6a44738dbbfa499ba4b63476b90e6a8eec501aed)
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Actually thats a good clue. its pretty close, or at least one of them was pretty close last time i was down their. :innocent:
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I have the Autotech. I got it very cheap second hand. It now has starship mileage on it without any problems. It made 324bhp on JKM's rollers with perfect AFR's.
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I have APR because I am one of the few who blew the seal on my OEM pump with Autotech internals - the OEM/Autotech set-up ran fine for about 20k miles then I had a remap which put the requested rail pressure up to 130 bar and it went pop after a week or two. Luckily I went to check my oil and could smell the fuel in it very clearly so got it sorted before any damage was done.