MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: chris s on May 24, 2011, 09:33:25 pm
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I've been doubting my GIAC remap for a couple of weeks now... just not convinced it's giving me the 300ish bhp and similar ftlb that Star Performance's site quoted.... I knew I should have had a rolling road to prove those stats!!
Tonight I was sort of proven right.... coming up the A19 a chavvy Astra GSI cut me up at the lights so I thought I would cruise past him to teach him a lesson.. but to my horror all I could do was keep up.... now I know he might have done all sorts to his Astra but I would have expected mine to be significantly quicker.
I've had VW check for errors and just changed the DV for the latest version so assume all is well.... any thoughts wise people?
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You need to get your car on a RR.
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yeah i know....
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Do have an opportunity to have a ride in someone else's car so you can compare the performance?
Might be a little easier than a rolling road session - inters is here in a few weeks, I'm sure someone would happily take you out for a comparison?
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whereabouts on the a19 are you? theres a few of us on that road with Ed30's :happy2:
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Put it side by side with heavyD's car, they both make similar power probably :evilgrin:
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But is it running too lean... :evilgrin:
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I'll probably have more power, but I'll be knackered when it comes to any steep hills and I've got no torque :laugh: :laugh:
Think mine was the only one running dangerously lean, just everything else was wrong with it :rolleye:
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I live near Newcastle upon Tyne so not sure if any of you guys are around here ... would be good to know if the previously very reliable Jim in Star Performance has let me down this time... I was really hoping for a car that would out perform my 350Z... and I just don't think this would....
Another thought that crossed my mind.... Jim only charged me £466 which is the price of a std GTI remap whereas the Ed30 remap is £530... is there any chance he put the wrong one on... would it even work?
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Ring Dave at pdt tuning and get it put on the r/r then you will have a base to work from..I was in Damo's on saturday who is from up your way and his pulls like a train :happy2:
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Could the GSi have a calibra turbo conversion?
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Don't get wrong, the car isn't slow and I really didn't have the car long enough before I had it remapped to really learn what it's std performance was like... that said I had hoped that the quoted increases from 230bhp to 305bhp and approx 310ftlb would be like other people say... night and day!
I'm going to take it Triple H Motorsport near me for a impartial full diagnostic and some new spark plugs... will see what they reckon (with a pinch of salt) as they are REVO dealer.
If nothing comes from that I may end up at the RR in PD tuning... but have heard some mixed reports about the work they do there??
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Not sure about the GSi .... but it really did match whatever my car was putting out... it had obviously been modded to some extent as it was not an OEM exhaust
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I experienced the same with an astra gsi the other week, and it wasn't the newer shape one either. Mines running 317bhp and 280lbsft torques with a stage 3 map :scared:
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If it's just a map on an ed30 (stock filter exhaust etc...) you're probably be only around 280bhp...
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I'm going to take it Triple H Motorsport near me for a impartial full diagnostic and some new spark plugs... will see what they reckon (with a pinch of salt) as they are REVO dealer.
If nothing comes from that I may end up at the RR in PD tuning... but have heard some mixed reports about the work they do there??
A diagnostic test isnt likely to show anything, new sparkplugs wont make the slightest bit of differentce unless the current ones are faulty, i.e missfire. What you need is a datalogging session, this will show up any issues, and if all is well then a dyno test+datalogging will be the next step.
TBH you will hear mixed reviews about any tuner, look through our reviews on here and make your own mind up rather than listening to any 2nd hand information :happy2:
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if your ever in the Sheffield area, get yourself down to statllers in Sheffield and see steve, he knows his sh*t and does giac software. as lowr32 said though, with stage 1 you will only be looking at around the 280bhp Mark. get a t/b milltek on there and an intake and watch it go then. it will feel totally transformed again.
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Are you sure on it only being approx 280bhp with a Stage 1 map on an otherwise std MY08 Ed30?? Both GIAC and Revo claim it's more like 300bhp... or is this more like wishful thinking from those 2 companies?
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Their Stage 1 remaps will give 300bhp but their claims are made on modified cars(i.e. exhaust and air filter I think you'll find) :jumpmove:
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Well if your ever passing Seaham I don't mind sticking vcds on it to see if Theres any fault codes and doing a bit of datalogging :driver:
Your best bet is to get it rr'd though :happy2:
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+1 :happy2:
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I'm also based in the North East, I'm sure PDT would be able to help, just carry on down the A19 down through the tunnel and in 5 minutes you're there.
I'm not trying to big up PDT.
But I do like to think I take my car to places I trust and who know what they're doing.
As a result my car has been to Dave a number of times for mods, never had any issues.
The reason the car goes back is that I'm getting it more modded and that's where I choose to use, the fact it is 15 minutes away is just handy..
For ref: My Ed30 Stg 1 Revo remap that Dave did in Dec, installed the same time as an Autotech HFFP, made 311 bhp.
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+1 for the 300bhp stage 1
Mine made 301.1 bhp with PDT's own map and a twintake
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+1 for the 300bhp stage 1
Mine made 301.1 bhp with PDT's own map and a twintake
and the intakes onth TFSI engine are good for around 15-20Hp.
Take 300Hp subtract 15-20Hp and you get......... 280-285hp :booty:
since his car is standard apart from the remap that would make his around 280-285Hp.
@ Bernhard30 the autotech HPFP will help make more power even on stage 1 with revo software because the fueling can be made more aggressive
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I think were missing the point here, no one is slagging dave off at pdt, what we are saying is that giac stage1 only no mods what so ever you are only going to get 280-285 bhp. add anything else like an intake, hpfp or tb exhaust and you will prob get over 300 bhp with torque to match.
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..I was just responding to the 'not sure about using PDT as read mixed reports' post from the op earlier.
But yes this is a GIAC remap question originally.
Fair enough about the HFFP giving gains with a Revo, it's good to know.
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+1 for the 300bhp stage 1
Mine made 301.1 bhp with PDT's own map and a twintake
Yeah that's with supporting mods it twintake...
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That's why I've mentioned my twintake :stupid:
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Apologies I thought you were implying Stage 1 should be 300bhp, but then go on to say you've achieved it but with a Twintake... :rolleye: Past my bedtime lol...
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Apologies I thought you were implying Stage 1 should be 300bhp, but then go on to say you've achieved it but with a Twintake... :rolleye: Past my bedtime lol...
:signLOL: I've spent the last 20 mins wondering what the hell I'm on about so no worrys! :indifferent:
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Whilst we are talking ED30 mods. Is the Ed30 stock exhaust anymore free flowing than the std Gti one?
Thanks
Matt
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No - Same exhaust.
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Ok cheers for info :happy2:
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Cheers guys I thinkI'm going to head down to PD Tuning in the next few days to a RR and Datalogging session... and who knows I may even look into a new downpipe... probably Milltek... and a new intake ..... my only concern is PDT are more Revo focussed and I'm running GIAC.... will give Dave a call and see what the craic is
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One more question... I know that ideally all mods should be completed before the remap, but as most (including the GIAC) are of the shelf maps... will I see the benefit of a down pipe and intake if fitted after the remap?
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If you get a d/p and intake, that will mean you'll be best off getting a stage 2 map off Giac, if you get an uprated HPFP, then you'll need a Giac pump map etc etc.
If you fit a downpipe and hiflow cat, there are some people that end up getting the engine light coming on. mine didnt, but there are a few people who have had it happen.
The noise alone off the exhaust and intake is a nice enough benefit :happy2:
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Cheers HeavyD, i meant to thank you early for your offer to help out with checking all is well with my car!
To be honest if i find out my car is anywhere short of 300bhp and 300ftlb I'll look to make the changes to hit those two holy grails :-)
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I'm in the same boat :sad1:
I'll be going to PDT next week for a rolling road session to see what mine will be making after I get my remap tweaked tomorrow down mansfield. Its making roughly the same as the PDT stage 2 map I had on, but I paid out for an APR fuel pump and a shark performance remap so not a happy bunny :confused:
At RSTuning RR day, damoegan made 298bhp and 315lbs of torque with his P-Torque stage 1 remap with an intake, dont think he's running a performance exhaust either. the stage 2 p-torque edition 30 down there made 315bhp and 340lbs of torque
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HeavyD - have you any experience of PDT? I'm interested in some 1st hand knowledge before i hand over the keys and ask him to possibly remap the car again
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I'm there Thursday morning to get mine rr'd. If I were you, I would find out what's wrong first before you shell out for another remap. Giac are supposed to be good, so get it rr'd and datalogged before you spend out£££££££
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Check on Vaux forums for him complaining about a MKV GTI keeping up with his heavily modded Astra :signLOL:
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As has been said ... you don't really know what you were up against !
I had an Edition 30 DSG ... Bluefin Stage 1 to 'allegedly' 299bhp ....
What I had was easily the quickest and best car I have had this side of a TVR Griffith 500 ... and that includes a Z4M Roadster ....
You don't necessarily gain that much on other cars - many variables come into force when you are not on equal footing - that said get it RR'd to make sure all is OK.
I remember accelerating onto the A3 with a Lexus 450h and not gaining at all - that said he was probably p***ed off a GTi was with him .... at least to 70 .... Though I also remember accelerating past an Audi TT where the driver looked completely gobsmacked .... I loved remapped cars :)
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Well as expected my morning at PDT proved interesting.... my Ed30 with a stage 1 GIAC map was putting out only 267bhp and a wimpy 235ftlb .... PDT ran some data logging and the ignition timing was -7 degrees out... and we could not work out why!! He even tried a REVO Trial map and that put out 264bhp... currently mapped back to stock until we can work out what is up :-(
Has anyone else come across this issue? He checked the coil packs, boost leaks and all was well...
At least I know I am not mad, but this not the best news to have!
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Well at least you managed to satisfy your curiousity if nothing else :sad1:
good luck with getting it sorted
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do you have an after market dump valve fitted?
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Has the timing belt been done yet?
Could have been fitted out of synch!
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Car made 226bhp with stock map on, only had issues when asked to make more power.
Boost values are fine, fuelling is fine, fuel pressure is fine but pulls a blanket -7. Degrees under load and only achieves 170-180% load. But in stock form its fine.
Looking over all of the logs later, will see if I can spot anything, is very strange though!
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i had the very same problem a few years ago and it turned out one of the pipe to my forge dv was wrong way around
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Im sure Chris will confirm, but car is 100% stock.
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Has the timing belt been done yet?
Could have been fitted out of synch!
I know of a couple of 1.8T's that had the same problem, my brother had to have his fitted 3 times at a local vw specialist, a mate of mine had his done twice a a seat dealers, then eventually paid out for a vw dealers to fit it as it was a tooth out aswell.
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Has the timing belt been done yet?
Could have been fitted out of synch!
I know of a couple of 1.8T's that had the same problem, my brother had to have his fitted 3 times at a local vw specialist, a mate of mine had his done twice a a seat dealers, then eventually paid out for a vw dealers to fit it as it was a tooth out aswell.
It is just that I know of a couple of cars that had been having power issues that both had 1 tooth out on the timing belt like you say and both were fine after.
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im really interested in this thread , my car has the exact same issues , in stock form makes spot on power 240 bhp but as soon as my map is on then i can only manage timing of 3 before it starts getting pulled , i have had a new timing belt fitted , wonder if this could be my problem?
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Yeah my car is 100% stock other than the GIAC stage 1 map I did have on it.... I replaced the DV a couple of weeks ago, but only to the newer VAG type D model so effectively stock.
Thanks for the comments so far.... as you can imagine I'm really keen to get the car back on a map ASAP
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wheres your car now mate?
have you got any logs you can post up?
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Hi - here's a log Dave sent me after being on his Dyno:
Group A: '115 Group B: '020 Group C: '230
Engine Speed Engine Load Boost Pressure Boost Pressure Cylinder 1 Ignition Cylinder 2 Ignition Cylinder 3 Ignition Cylinder 4 Ignition Rail Pressure Rail Pressure Rail Pressure
TIME (specified) (actual) TIME Angle Delay Angle Delay Angle Delay Angle Delay TIME (specified) (actual) Difference
Marker STAMP /min % mbar mbar STAMP °KW °KW °KW °KW STAMP bar bar bar
0.23 1640 106 1620 1330 0.37 -3.8 -2.3 -4.5 -4.5 0.11 91.22 91.13 0.09
0.62 1600 106.8 1610 1330 0.74 -6 -2.3 -4.5 -4.5 0.49 95.04 95.14 -0.1
1.04 1640 106.8 1620 1340 1.16 -6 -1.5 -4.5 -4.5 0.88 99.14 98.84 0.3
1.43 1640 108.3 1620 1340 1.55 -6 -1.5 -4.5 -4.5 1.29 102.15 102.92 -0.77
1.8 1640 107.5 1620 1350 1.94 -6 -1.5 -3.8 -4.5 1.68 102.69 103.03 -0.34
2.19 1640 108.3 1640 1350 2.32 -6 -1.5 -3.8 -4.5 2.07 102.8 102.92 -0.12
2.58 1920 107.5 1950 1380 2.71 -6 -1.5 -3.8 -4.5 2.46 105.04 104.36 0.67
2.97 2160 113.5 2220 1440 3.1 -6 -1.5 -3.8 -4.5 2.83 108.92 109 -0.08
3.35 2400 124.1 2400 1560 3.49 -6 -1.5 -3.8 -3.8 3.22 109.86 110.32 -0.46
3.74 2640 136.1 2420 1730 3.86 -6 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 3.61 109.97 110.46 -0.49
4.13 2920 154.9 2310 1970 4.25 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 4 109.99 110.17 -0.18
4.52 3080 186.5 2360 2330 4.64 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 4.37 109.99 110.36 -0.37
4.89 3400 191.7 2300 2510 5.03 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 4.77 109.99 108.84 1.15
5.28 3640 191.7 2260 2470 5.41 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 5.16 109.99 103.16 6.83
5.67 3840 185.7 2250 2270 5.8 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 5.55 109.99 102.48 7.51
6.06 4040 177.4 2260 2210 6.19 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 5.92 109.99 108.83 1.16
6.44 4280 176.7 2290 2210 6.58 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 6.31 109.99 112.83 -2.84
6.82 4560 181.2 2320 2230 6.95 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 6.7 109.99 108.41 1.58
7.21 4800 180.5 2350 2250 7.34 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 7.09 109.99 110.59 -0.6
7.61 5040 178.9 2400 2300 7.73 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 7.46 109.99 110.57 -0.58
7.98 5280 181.2 2410 2330 8.12 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 7.85 109.99 111.19 -1.2
8.37 5480 181.2 2360 2340 8.49 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 8.24 109.99 109.39 0.6
8.76 5720 181.2 2330 2310 8.88 -5.3 -1.5 -3.8 -6.8 8.63 109.99 110.54 -0.55
9.15 5960 176.7 2230 2260 9.27 -5.3 -1.5 -6.8 -6.8 9.01 109.99 110.19 -0.2
9.52 6160 171.4 2240 2240 9.67 -5.3 -1.5 -6.8 -6.8 9.4 109.99 105.62 4.37
9.91 6320 167.7 2210 2180 10.04 -5.3 -1.5 -6.8 -6.8 9.79 109.99 111.35 -1.36
10.31 4880 55.6 580 1920 10.43 -5.3 -1.5 0 0 10.18 99.89 94.68 5.21
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those logs look nearly identical to mine :confused:
i will post mine up later tonight for you.
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OK - not sure what is going on as to the best of my knowledge my timing belt has not been changed
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Heres my log from tonight:
G001 G020 G020 G020 G020 G102 G115 G115 G230 G230
TIME Group 1 - Field 0 Group 20 - Field 0 Group 20 - Field 1 Group 20 - Field 2 Group 20 - Field 3 Group 102 - Field 3 Group 115 - Field 2 Group 115 - Field 3 Group 230 - Field 0 Group 230 - Field 1
STAMP Engine Speed Cylinder 1 Ignition - Angle Delay Cylinder 2 Ignition - Angle Delay Cylinder 3 Ignition - Angle Delay Cylinder 4 Ignition - Angle Delay Median - injection timing Boost Pressure - (specified) Boost Pressure - (actual) Rail Pressure - (specified) Rail Pressure - (actual)
/min ḞKW ḞKW ḞKW ḞKW ms mbar mbar bar bar
0.01 1800 0 0 0 -3 3.31 1680 1090 82.92 82.75
0.27 2000 0 0 0 -2.3 3.31 1790 1160 91.43 91.17
0.52 2080 0 0 0 -1.5 3.57 1950 1240 99.6 100.2
0.79 2200 0 0 0 -3 3.83 2130 1320 106.91 107.03
1.03 2320 0 0 0 -3 3.83 2180 1420 114.39 114.71
1.28 2440 0 -3 0 -4.5 4.08 2240 1530 120.82 119.88
1.51 2560 0 -3 -3 -4.5 4.34 2270 1670 123.93 123.88
1.77 2760 0 -3 -3 -4.5 4.84 2300 1860 124.72 124.21
2.02 2920 -3 -3 -3 -4.5 5.36 2310 2100 124.92 124.92
2.28 3120 -3 -3 -3 -4.5 5.87 2320 2240 124.97 124.99
2.53 3320 -3 -3 -3 -4.5 6.12 2320 2350 124.99 126.35
2.78 3480 -3 -3 -3 -4.5 6.63 2330 2390 125.13 124.24
3.02 3640 -4.5 -3 -3.8 -4.5 6.88 2320 2430 125.24 123.55
3.27 3840 -4.5 -3 -3.8 -4.5 6.88 2330 2360 125.27 120.22
3.53 4040 -4.5 -3 -3.8 -4.5 6.63 2350 2300 125.5 121.52
3.78 4200 -4.5 -2.3 -3.8 -3.8 6.63 2370 2300 125.73 122.25
4.04 4400 -4.5 -2.3 -3 -3.8 6.88 2390 2330 125.73 121.26
4.28 4520 -4.5 -2.3 -3 -3.8 6.88 2380 2340 125.73 119.46
4.53 4720 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.88 2370 2360 125.74 114.09
4.78 4880 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.88 2380 2370 126.1 118.85
5.04 5040 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.63 2380 2380 126.76 122.31
5.29 5200 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.63 2370 2350 127.28 124.54
5.55 5400 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.38 2370 2310 127.42 125.31
5.79 5560 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.38 2370 2320 127.47 123.89
6.05 5640 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.38 2370 2320 127.49 125.99
6.29 5840 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.38 2330 2300 127.49 125.65
6.56 5960 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.38 2280 2280 127.49 125.59
6.81 6120 -4.5 -2.3 -4.5 -3.8 6.12 2280 2250 127.49 125.91
7.07 6280 -4.5 -1.5 -4.5 -3.8 5.87 2280 2220 127.49 125.68
7.33 6440 -4.5 -1.5 -3.8 -3 5.87 2290 2220 127.49 126.72
7.6 6560 -4.5 -1.5 -3.8 -3 5.87 2290 2220 127.49 126.75
7.85 6680 -3.8 -1.5 -3.8 -3 5.61 2290 2210 127.49 126.5
8.13 6840 -3.8 -0.8 -3.8 -3 5.61 2300 2190 127.49 127.31
8.38 6960 -3.8 -0.8 -3.8 -3 5.1 1830 2250 127.49 126.93
8.66 7040 -3.8 -0.8 -3.8 -3 4.59 1510 2330 127.49 128.23
what i am still also trying to trace and cure is why my fuel pressure drops then comes back up again see 4520 rpm :confused:
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Hi Chris,
I have some coilpacks and plugs coming in stock later this week, think it might be worth a try changing them and reflashing a stg1 map, if only for a road test. If they dont help I can swap back to your originals, no charge for the parts.
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Hi Dave - I actually have some NGK Iridium plugs at home, but forgot to bring them on Saturday. I have read on various forums that the plugs have fixed similar problems but with out knowing why or how.
I did have one thought... when you flashed my car with the REVO trail, did you try and adjust the timing settings?
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yes, even at timing 2 or 3 (cant remember which one) it pulled 6+ degrees
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Dave - Cheers for the offer of the test with the plugs and coil packs, I'll fit mine plugs over the weekend and will get back in touch with you for another session on the Dyno
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OK guys I have spoken to Jim at Star Performance who added the GIAC stage 1 map to my Ed30, and he was moderately helpful...
I would be interested in peoples thoughts about his comments....
Jim was annoyed I had the GIAC map taken off, as he felt the 6.8 degrees of timing pull would be acceptable on a Dyno, due to the increased air intake temps, he's not concerned with seeing values up to 10 when on a Dyno.
Also he suggested the plugs and fuel pump should really be replaced ... I'm OK with the plugs despite only have 25k on the clock but the fuel pump is another £270ish and not something I had heard.
Regarding the Dyno reading he suggested that DSG cars are hard to extract the full power.. something about the gas pedal??? and there can be big differences between dynos as we all know ..
He then went on to say that whilst he would put the GIAC map back on.... he would not turn it around in a day as he'd need to Dyno it before and after plus any issue resolution. This sounded like a tactic to put me off as he knows I have a 3hr trip each way to get to his place.
Cheers
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Fuel pump is about £150, but your logs showed it to be ok :stupid:
As far as dsg goes, mine was ok on the dyno?
I'm at pdt at 4.30 today if you wanna see how a dsg can get power down on a dyno ok!
I always thought Giac remaps were generic plug any play maps? Not full day maps that needed tweaking? Especially at stage 1?
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Do you mean replacing the fuel pump for a like for like oem pump or buying the upgraded internals?
sounds weird if he was suggesting buying a new standard pump? unless he knew the solenoid was weak?
The other thing which sounds a bit strange is the high timing pull he suggests is acceptable on a dyno , yes maybe with higher intake temperatures you could account for a couple of degrees timing pull , but pulling upto 10 would really be pulling your power back ! how would he benefit from setting your car up properley with such a high timing pull?
my timing pull was diagnosed on a rolling road so to me it doesnt make any sense at all.
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He was suggesting that an upgraded pump should be fitted, but I didn't believe this was needed on a stage 1???
Also, he said he checked the ignition timing and it was nothing more than 1.... but I have nothing to prove or disprove this.... If he is telling the truth, then the only thing that has changed on the car was me replacing the DV with a Type D version... even though the original was fine when I took it off, but as I'd bought the new version I just stuck it on.
surely this can't cause any issues as it's VW????
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Uprated pump isnt needed on stage 1, but some people say it does make a difference. wouldnt have thought the DV would have made a difference unless it was fittted badly and has a loose hose?
Nothing wrong with dyno and DSG, heres proof :jumpmove: :jumpmove:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Frollingroadshark001.jpg&hash=ce45b558e517658c1341ac01c3e82379d5c09552)
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you gained a few more Hp there :star:
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Doms car had the REVO treatment :laugh: (dsg stg1)
As for timing of 6.8 being ok, different tuners have different thoughts on whats acceptable. A car with timing pull of 8 wont make any more power than a car with timing pull of 3, so why run excessive timing?
When an engine spikes at 6-7 for a milisecond, and then returns to low levels of timing pull this is seen as acceptable but when it pulls a blanket level of 6-7 degrees accross a wide rpm range then something is wrong.
The fuel pump is fine, the logs prove this. It is worth trying a new set of coils and plugs (as I said, I have them in stock and you are welcome to try a set free of charge).
The problem arose on this car as soon as anything above stock power was requested, it isnt a software issue but an issue with the car itself. Im sure it will run just as well on Giac as it will on any other stg1 software, but not until the underlying issue is addressed.
As for timing pull of 10 being acceptable on a dyno due to airflow :stupid: then a better dyno fan is needed. Our dyno fan puts out 30,000 cfm at a windspeed of 65mph, it has kept a 700bhp r34 skyline cool for over 5 hours of constant dyno testing. Whenever I have logged on-road and on-dyno I find the ti ing pull to be near enough identical.
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iirc one of Owen LCRs Cupra with GIAC stage 3 used to pull -12 at times for quite a considerable amount of time. yet DJ horice with his revo was running no timing pull but both cars made the same 1/4 mile times and power. and that was logged on the road andnot dyno. if the car is having to retard the timing that much its not setup correctly IMO
Shows which of the maps is better IMO. Me personally i would ask for map adjustment if i had more than -5 just to be on the safe side
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OK -checked the DV I fitted and put in some new NGK Plugs so will get in touch with Dave at PDT to see what we can work out... I may well have Revo put on and an exhaust he's got going...
Will keep this updated
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any updates chris?
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I was under the impression that anything over a sustained -5 is piston melting territory?
In the Revo documentation for the SPS+ it quite clearly states that -3 is about the limit and if its over to pull the timing back.
And Dave@PDT is quite right, a dyno should not affect the timing pull that much if at all, and like he says if it does its time for a bigger fan!
Sounds like Star Performance is trying to cover its tracks when clearly he doesn't need to as its not his fault?
And if I saw -10 timing pull on a Dyno I would be reaching for the E-Stop! But it would probably be to late by the time I had got to it!
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No updates from me as yet... although the new plugs are in and seem to be working fine... I have not been able to get back over to PDT for a RR session and possibly the REVO map... as getting back to Scotland for the free GIAC reflash is probably not realistic at the moment... I'll update people when I have more info
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I know its no good info now................but its always a good idea to find a local(ish) tuner.
Maybe right off the GIAC and go for a Revo?
If its local.
Might cost you more in fuel in the long run driving to get it sorted.
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Exactly my thoughts... I have 2 local REVO dealers so have plenty of choice there and both within 10 miles... hence can easily resolve any issues easily, if they arise. A pain in the Butt tho as I already splashed out £466 in the GIAC
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Where are you Chris, if you do change then it would be a good idea to get some feedback as to the best one?
A lot of people are happy with GIAC but its just a shame the tuner is so far away.
The thing is, he should have logged it properly so it kind of does fall on him.
Would it fall under the 'goods not as described' banner?
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But was it not pulling even with PDT's map on? Is it the map that's causing this?
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But was it not pulling even with PDT's map on? Is it the map that's causing this?
Yes apparently but what I am saying is the Tuner should have logged it properly, if he had he would have known about the massive pull and known something was wrong.
What I am saying is that a local Tuner may be better for Chris.
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You can always try PDTs own software if you dont want to splash out on the £££££'s.
If you want to know what its like on an ED30, I can always flash my car back to the PDTuning software if you want to see what its like
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Cheers guys - I agree with you about the GIAC situation... however I think it would be a losing battle fought at long distance... as I have no evidence to prove it was not right at the time I left Star Performance and the time and effort to get up and down the road would be considerable. My car was pulling with the REVO trial map on as well, but all was good apparently with the stock map... although Dave didn't record this, but the out put was what it should be so have no reason to doubt him.
Star Perf suggested changing the plugs [done] and the coil packs... which dave has said he would do for free for testing purposes.... so my next plan is to have some full data logging tomorrow lunch time at Tiple H Motorsport (REVO Dealer), purely becuase they are literally 5 mins away from work, and the if all is well head to PDT for a REVO stage 1.
So I will have wasted £466 but my plan when I bought the car in April was to have it mapped... as coming from a 350Z the stock Ed30 would have been too slow ;-)
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as coming from a 350Z the stock Ed30 would have been too slow ;-)
:stupid:
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Absolutely mate.... the Zed was faster all round mate, plus it cornered much better.. anyway I went for the ed30 with plans to bump it's performance so that's still my plan
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:P
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These engines are very prone to engine knock , mines been doing it for the last 3 years and i still have no idea whats causing it , what made things worse is the dealers have no idea when you present them with hours of logging showing your timing pull.
I changed plugs and coil packs but they did not make any difference at all.
i have a new cam positioning sensor to go on to try just incase mines on its way out.
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any further update to this problem? or has a resolution been reached?
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These engines are very prone to engine knock , mines been doing it for the last 3 years and i still have no idea whats causing it , what made things worse is the dealers have no idea when you present them with hours of logging showing your timing pull.
I changed plugs and coil packs but they did not make any difference at all.
i have a new cam positioning sensor to go on to try just incase mines on its way out.
Talking about engine knock, mine is now running a stock map, timing pull peaks at 6.8 :scared: :scared: :scared:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fstock.jpg&hash=4437ac1e03dd9a02e1f752720fd6242d8203f6e4)
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:scared: WTF is up with your car Dom. Maybe its not the turbo then!! Surely a turbo on its way out wouldnt cause timing pull. is it possible to test the knock sensors,
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These engines are very prone to engine knock , mines been doing it for the last 3 years and i still have no idea whats causing it , what made things worse is the dealers have no idea when you present them with hours of logging showing your timing pull.
I changed plugs and coil packs but they did not make any difference at all.
i have a new cam positioning sensor to go on to try just incase mines on its way out.
Talking about engine knock, mine is now running a stock map, timing pull peaks at 6.8 :scared: :scared: :scared:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fstock.jpg&hash=4437ac1e03dd9a02e1f752720fd6242d8203f6e4)
can you email me this log please Dom
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:scared: WTF is up with your car Dom. Maybe its not the turbo then!! Surely a turbo on its way out wouldnt cause timing pull. is it possible to test the knock sensors,
Thats what I would like to know, its booked in at the stealers on monday. Nearly traded it in for an S3 today, but the offered me less than I was expecting for mine :sad1:
Rob you have mail :wink:
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S3 defo. What did they offer you. If you need extensive repairs to the ed30 it might make sense to swap
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Was offered £9900, paid £15,500 i think it was a year ago. All depends on repair bill to be honest. If it doesn't cost too much, I'll get it fixed and sell it on private. Got me heart set on an s3 now :drool: :jumping:
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Heavyd have you problem to pdt a bout you timing pull? I seem to remember you saying you have had good experiences there
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It's a stock map that on at the minute Chris. I was at pdt to find out about the blue and black the car keeps randomly chucking out. He did cylinder leak test, and a few other checks for me and they were all ok. Went to another couple of garages and they couldn't find why, so taking it into Pulman Durham on Monday to see if they can find out what the problem is. If all else fails, bring on the s3 :party:
We buy any car offered £7995 :surprised:
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I had simlar issues with a ko3 tfsi a few weeks back, it turned out to be the PVC leaking under load, puffs of smoke and continued knock control.
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intersting to hear your PVC findings.... I was considering this as my next point to consider
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I fitted a bsh pcv revamp kit last week to rule that out, and it made no difference :confused:
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:scared: WTF is up with your car Dom. Maybe its not the turbo then!! Surely a turbo on its way out wouldnt cause timing pull. is it possible to test the knock sensors,
Thats what I would like to know, its booked in at the stealers on monday. Nearly traded it in for an S3 today, but the offered me less than I was expecting for mine :sad1:
Rob you have mail :wink:
thanksDom i will compare them to my logs when i get in.
whats the spec on the s3?
i was considering an S3 or an Audi TTS but im wondering if there is a problem wth this engine?
and dont want to go down the same path again , i have had 3 years of hell so far.
how long has your car actually been having this timing pull for?
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I've had increased timing pull since I had the REvo DSG map installed.....
I would get it taken off for a while to see if it makes any difference, but its like throwing £350 away if it isnt that causing it :confused:
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I've had increased timing pull since I had the REvo DSG map installed.....
I would get it taken off for a while to see if it makes any difference, but its like throwing £350 away if it isnt that causing it :confused:
but cant they take it off and flash the dsg back to standard then reflash it foc ? like normal maps?
and if it is causing the issues maybe get a refund?
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:scared: WTF is up with your car Dom. Maybe its not the turbo then!! Surely a turbo on its way out wouldnt cause timing pull. is it possible to test the knock sensors,
now this is what i would be interested in having tested , they could have the bolts over torqued or undertorqued and picking up engine noises or vibrations.
how easy are they to get to?
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Well in my continued attempts to get the performance from my revo stage 1 ed30 i have now swapped back to the older type dv and a newer type pcv and there no improvements. So now these have been changed along with the plugs and coil packs i am stuck what do next other than invest in some serious data logging
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Log ignition angle and Maf, boost requested and actual, ign timing pull, n75, actual and requested load, fuel rail pressure, lambda, throttle angle and pedal angle.
If you have Revo, all these should have been logged and checked as part of the installation cost.
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I fitted a bsh pcv revamp kit last week to rule that out, and it made no difference :confused:
Fook me Dom, you have had the ultimate nightmare with that car.. I thought you were all sorted at last??? :confused: I just think it's allergic to mods mate.. :signLOL:
Regarding timing pull, would a uprated FMIC not help? Although i'm sure you've already thought of that.. :confused: I had to drop my settings down quite a bit during the summer when mine was Stage 2+, or I would get timing pull..
If you are set on getting rid and getting a S3. I would take all your bits off (transfer most to S3) and sell privately. A CW, DSG Ed30 with good spec isn't going to hang around the classifieds for long I shouldn't think.. Plus you'll get a dam sight more than 10k for it too..
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I'm trying to get car sorted first before I can sell it though Ben! Had a new turbo fitted at dealers last week, on a stock map it still pulls 5.3 cf timing, with an overboost making 2230bar of boost! Stage 2 overboosts at 3020mb! So going to try and sort boost issues out before I try to sort out the timing.
Good luck getting yours sorted Chris!
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I'm trying to get car sorted first before I can sell it though Ben! Had a new turbo fitted at dealers last week, on a stock map it still pulls 5.3 cf timing, with an overboost making 2230bar of boost! Stage 2 overboosts at 3020mb! So going to try and sort boost issues out before I try to sort out the timing.
Good luck getting yours sorted Chris!
New turbo? :surprised: Whaat happened? How much did that set you back?
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£1370. Car kept chucking out big plumes of blue smoke, using half a litre of oil a fortnight. Tailgate and bumper totally covered in black dots after 10 mile trip, all on stock map. Made 290 bhp with stage 3 map that previously made 350bhp etc etc
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£1370. Car kept chucking out big plumes of blue smoke, using half a litre of oil a fortnight. Tailgate and bumper totally covered in black dots after 10 mile trip, all on stock map. Made 290 bhp with stage 3 map that previously made 350bhp etc etc
Gutting mate.. Shame there wasn't a KO4 available in the classifieds :sad1: Normally there's 1 floating about as well.. I take it she's well out of warranty then? :sad1:
You must of done some dosh on the old girl now mate? :surprised: Feel for ya..
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Yep, it's cost some money so far, another little twist is that the blue smoke is back, I've checked the oil and that's gone down aswell, so looks like I didn't need a turbo after all :fighting:
Its going Back into stealers on Monday, might give up on these tfsi engines and get a diseasel scirocco, they've got a nice one sitting on the forecourt :laugh:
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This is why I mentioned to ask the dealers 'that question'.
Good luck with it Dom.
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Id be taking the cylinder off personally is your losing that amount still heavyd..
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This is why I mentioned to ask the dealers 'that question'.
Good luck with it Dom.
I did ask the question, so I'm in for a battle :fighting:
Its definetly going the journey once fixed! I'm going to get in touch with VW customer services aswell about it, as the dealer diagnosed the fault then relieved me of £1370, and that clearly wasnt the fault
Going to strip parts off this weekend weather permitting.
Whats the cost of setiing the Revo DSG to stock Dave?
Id be taking the cylinder off personally is your losing that amount still heavyd..
I did ask about the valve stem oil seals, and they said that if it was losing the oil it was, theres no way it could be those. and I had the leakdown test done by Dave at PDT and the piston rings were ok.
See what happens on monday then :popcornsoda:
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Will a leak down test show whether the valve guides and rubber seals ok?
Granted rings will, but not sure whether the valve stem seals would ?
If the oils not being lost via the turbo, the only other way it's going out the back is rings or valve guides surely?
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Will a leak down test show whether the valve guides and rubber seals ok?
Granted rings will, but not sure whether the valve stem seals would ?
If the oils not being lost via the turbo, the only other way it's going out the back is rings or valve guides surely?
Compression test or leakdown test wont diagnose guides or stem seals as they measure compression in the cylinder when the valves are closed.
Dom, DSG reflash is FOC :happy2: