MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: Gazzgti on August 11, 2011, 04:58:50 pm
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Opinions on the above two, looking to go stage 1 but would prefere to use a self tuning system.
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I have a mate who is about to get trained up by Shark, have heard they are pretty good.
Not used either myself yet, but think Iwill be getting him to install it on my car in the near future.
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Just out of interest, why is a Selftune system of interest?
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just so i can return to stock and can order without having to book a time/day
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Thats understandable.
Selftune systems do have some benefits but the big downside is that you often get a generic map rather than one thats set up for your car. fuelling and boost is often ok but timing is usually mapped on the safe side, often too far retarded to be extra safe.
I have 300 self tune systems in stock but only sell them on mail order basis for diesels, and to people that have their petrolcars mapped in-house. petrols require much more accurate mapping and I dont feel that compromising the product to be safe is the right way to go just to get mail order sales.
Both options you have mentioned seem to get ok results.
The other option is to have your car professionally custom mapped and ask them to keep both the original and tuned maps on the device, best of both worlds!
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I was over the moon with my ST1 Bluefin map and would happily have another.
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If I was you I prob wouldn't have a blue fin, I have stage 3 on mine and the spec is for a panel filter and a cat back, I have an intake and a Turbo back exhaust and the map is the same, only reason I haven't changed is finacial!
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I was over the moon with my ST1 Bluefin map and would happily have another.
Same here. In fact I had all the stages on mine without problem and would do it again. :happy2:
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No issues with bluefin here! :happy2:
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Had bluefin stage 1, 2 and 2+ pn my octavia. Stage 1 was very smooth, but low torque (not a bad thing though) but stage 2 and 2+ were very poor on my car. Stage 2 was the worst of the 3 maps( had alot of updated maps as well)
I then swapped to shark performance and ended up with all the stages of tune before selling. Much better imo.
the selft tune system i had on my car contained my bluefin stage 2+ map the stock map and the stage 3 shark map that was live mapped on my car over about 6 hours, so doesnt have to be a generic map.
The issues ive seen with bluefin 90% of the time seemed to be k03 related. The k04 guys never seemed tok have tthe same issues
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The other option is to have your car professionally custom mapped and ask them to keep both the original and tuned maps on the device, best of both worlds!
This is what i had on'my car, but also had stage 1 and 2 files along with the imobilizer maps and bluefin stage 2+ maps that i could load onto the handset wwhen ever i wanted. Only 3 maps could be stored on the handset at any one time. STS handset also reads fault codes to which is handy
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I have the blue fin stage 2 on my car and it's ok for what it is but I still feel like the car could give more. It will do for now whilst I am doing other things on the car but a custom map is on my list of things to do. I've not had any issues with the system so can't fault it.
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My bluefin handset has just given up the ghost but it like 3 years old and not sure if SC will sort it out?? Its just coming up with "Error communicating with car please contact Superchips"
Darren
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Well having had shark, revo, bluefin, PDTuning and superchips on my car....................
I would say go with Shark. Their stage 1 map is far better than the Bluefin.
One thing that I will stress, is that if you go to stage 2+ with shark, go down to their HQ to get it done on their Rolling road and setup properly.
Out of all the above companies, bluefin was the one I wouldnt go back to.
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I've had the Shark Performance map on my GT TDI 170 now for a couple of months
Have been really impressed - would definately recommend :happy2:
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i have bluefin stage 2 on my car, stage 1 was a massive difference, stage2 not so much, but after data logging the map wasnt set up right, however after sending the logs to bluefin, the map was adjusted to suite my car from the logs and all is good. Had bluefin on for coming upto 2 years.
the customer service is brilliant via both emails and phone calls.
i would highly recommend
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i have bluefin stage 2 on my car, stage 1 was a massive difference, stage2 not so much, but after data logging the map wasnt set up right, however after sending the logs to bluefin, the map was adjusted to suite my car from the logs and all is good. Had bluefin on for coming upto 2 years.
the customer service is brilliant via both emails and phone calls.
i would highly recommend
I've been weighing up my options too recently between Bluefin & a custom R-Tech map. In the end I've decided a custom map has to be better than a generic one, and the price is very reasonable to. It'll be on next week...can't wait! :party:
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These are all off my car at stage 2+ .
first graph is revo vs bluefin, second is shark performance
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F8d8d8de6.jpg&hash=c30355f4eed8c26fba0f26f6b9b52126837578f5)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2FBRAKEKIL.gif&hash=0c24d5ae1d8d945fe2725836d2fbd8409f427f52)
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I am just about to give R-Tech a go for a spec 1 custom map.They seem to get amazing reviews on our sister web forum site.I have driven a spec 1 remap producing 244bhp and around 269 torques,all I can say is WOW,very smooth linear delivery and very adictable.Hope to get mine remapped by them in a few weeks time.At the moment you can get the remap done for £240 which includes a full pre map check of DV PCV etc,roling road before and after.Why should we pay £500 when these guys do such a good job for half that.
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A mate had his pirelli custom mapped at rtech, the most they could get out of it was 270bhp, which is a lot less than most competitors stage 1 remap :confused:
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I've had a Shark Performance stage 1 on my GTi for a couple of months and I'm well pleased with it, noticed a huge difference in performance and the power delivery is very smooth.
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We are going down to Shark Performance in a few weeks to see how they develop the maps with a view to using them when we move the business into a unit in the next few months. Really looking forward to it. Honestly, I have not read or heard a bad word yet :happy2:
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I had the stage one my gti at inters done by shark performance and i am really pleased with what they done as the performance has been enhanced loads and even getting 10 mpg.
Was a bit weary at first but then thought would just go for it and bin the best thing i did for the money well pleased
Aled
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Shark are holding a dyno day which will include discounted maps on the next bank holiday - 29/08.
Its actually being organised for ASN members but all are welcome, I'll be going along for a nose. Ben the owner of Shark is from a software background but doesn't write the maps himself but isvery capable at tweaking them to suit your cars set up and your requirements, he has an excellent reputation.
I've used Superchips/|Bluefin on 6 different cars now and despite a few minor issues the customer service has always been excellent - the power claims have not been so reliable.
Also used Evolve for my diesels a superb company based in Luton that also do an STS type handset and have a dyno dynamics RR - again nothing but good things to say about these Guys so another option for you.
Of late I have had the last 4 VAG cars mapped by Revo and all I can say is Wow :happy2:
Can be a little more expensive than the competition but guaranteed results everytime, does what it says on the tin end of.
You could always use their switchloader to reload a stock version of your map ?
I'll be getting this latest car mapped by Revo sometime this month once I have finalised my hardware set up - on my second variation of Milltek right now :)
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Shark are holding a dyno day which will include discounted maps on the next bank holiday - 29/08.
Its actually being organised for ASN members but all are welcome, I'll be going along for a nose. Ben the owner of Shark is from a software background but doesn't write the maps himself but isvery capable at tweaking them to suit your cars set up and your requirements, he has an excellent reputation.
There are 2 main guys at shark. Mikko who is designs the maps and ben the owner who as said above can adjust/tweak the maps to suit the idividual cars. Mikko is a weapon as well. Very soon id expect there to be tuners offering shark maps all around the UK as you can see in post 21. They are taking off big style
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Are you Shark on the fabia yet Sy?
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Lifted from anoher site:
Please join us for the grand opening of our new premises! Shark Performance are moving (again!) into a new 3,000 sq ft unit and we would like you to come and enjoy the opening party! We are also excited to introduce our very own all new Rolling Road!!!
August Bank Holiday Monday 29 August · 10:00 - 18:00
Unit 6
Mansfield Networkcentre
Concorde Way
Mansfield
NG19 7JZ
On the day there will be:
Food
Drinks
Music with live DJs
Rolling Road demonstration
Mapping demonstration
Children's entertainment
And some special discounts on all our services which will include:
Vehicle remapping
Diagnostics
Rolling road sessions
Custom tuning
Servicing
Performance exhaust and induction systems
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Are you Shark on the fabia yet Sy?
Had it done with only 800 miles.
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Are you Shark on the fabia yet Sy?
Had it done with only 800 miles.
I lose track :ashamed: *goes to re read homo mobile thread
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I've decided a custom map has to be better than a generic one
If only that was the case.. a "custom" map written by someone who hasn't got a clue can be much, much worse. But I guess we then get into the custom vs generic map debate in which I struggle to understand exactly what the buying public means by each label.
To me "generic" means written in a car park and increasing a few maps by x%. Custom means a properly developed map written for a particular car. But then if you use the same map as a baseline for another car, that technically makes it "generic" by the definition of the word.
To me, generic means throwing a map at a car and sending it away, often without any testing and almost definitely without any development. Often the people applying these maps don't even know what they're applying, they just buy a file from somewhere and flash it on to a car. Custom means written for the particular modifications on that vehicle, for that vehicle. We don't fall in to either category but offer different developed stages of tune for different levels of modifications, and then a custom option on top. But as some of our customers here will testify, everything can be changed, tweaked and altered to suit.. so I guess that makes it custom again :laugh:
So in summary while I can't agree with your statement entirely, I can understand where you're coming from. I think the key thing is going to reputable tuner rather than A. N. Other Tuning Co. In your case R-Tech have a good reputation and Nick is a nice guy but unfortunately there are many places offering "custom" tuning at x price who aren't quite as good.
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Shark are holding a dyno day which will include discounted maps on the next bank holiday - 29/08.
Its actually being organised for ASN members but all are welcome,
While we do have an open day (and thankyou for posting it!) unfortunately some of that is not quite right - it's a general open day (although there will be a couple of cars on the dyno through the day) and it's organised for absolutely everybody and many forums (ASN, here, Briskoda, Ibiza OC amongst a fair few others) will be invited to have a forum stand at the day if they'd like :happy2:
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am i losing it or is shark even more expensive than bluefin. assuming you add the £150 for the tool to the remap of £349
??? :rolleye:
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I've decided a custom map has to be better than a generic one
If only that was the case.. a "custom" map written by someone who hasn't got a clue can be much, much worse. But I guess we then get into the custom vs generic map debate in which I struggle to understand exactly what the buying public means by each label.
To me "generic" means written in a car park and increasing a few maps by x%. Custom means a properly developed map written for a particular car. But then if you use the same map as a baseline for another car, that technically makes it "generic" by the definition of the word.
To me, generic means throwing a map at a car and sending it away, often without any testing and almost definitely without any development. Often the people applying these maps don't even know what they're applying, they just buy a file from somewhere and flash it on to a car. Custom means written for the particular modifications on that vehicle, for that vehicle. We don't fall in to either category but offer different developed stages of tune for different levels of modifications, and then a custom option on top. But as some of our customers here will testify, everything can be changed, tweaked and altered to suit.. so I guess that makes it custom again :laugh:
So in summary while I can't agree with your statement entirely, I can understand where you're coming from. I think the key thing is going to reputable tuner rather than A. N. Other Tuning Co. In your case R-Tech have a good reputation and Nick is a nice guy but unfortunately there are many places offering "custom" tuning at x price who aren't quite as good.
Generic vs Custom is a pretty poinless argument, as Ben has said above its more a case of good vs bad. Theres a place not far from me that offers 'custom' remaps for £150, takes 20mins, rarely reads the original data and just flashes something onto the ECU that has the same/similar hardware and software numbers. Gets his software from a national 'mobile' ecu remapping outfit for £20-£30 a file and claims higher power figures than is possibly achievable. Claims they are not generic but custom as each file is made individually, whoch in a way can be deemed as custom.
But just because its custom makes no difference to the fact it is poor quality software. I recently had a car in tuned by this outfit and it was having an issue with poor power delivery and drivability, odd kickdowns on the auto box etc... I will post what I found a bit later....
This one shows the changes made in a boost map, the highlighted area is all that was altered, anywhere there is a zero means that these cells or 'load sites' were kept standard
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fvv184%2Famyhedley1%2Fboostmap-altered.jpg&hash=74cab4ae59f0b65c8afe5b3dc09a0b35cebe8a57)
the 'injection at part throttle' map was even worse, same principal as the boost map, anything with a zero means no change to that load site.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fvv184%2Famyhedley1%2Finjparthrott.jpg&hash=be3ede48983237ce3d2738341943207ee2be668e)
and then there is the boost limiter map, this should allow some boost at lower rpm and throttle, increasing at peak torque but decreasing at later rpm. think the problem here is clear....
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fvv184%2Famyhedley1%2Fmaxpressure.jpg&hash=6f614ef1b3fbefe913e8835f9f78ef5b83cd16e0)
its clear to anyone with a bit of common sense and understanding of numbers that by looking at the first image why the car was sluggish until 50% throttle and would then violently kick down 2 gears and accelerate like crazy, then go into limp mode at 4000rpm with a fault code logged for overboost
still want a custom map that was specially made for your car? :confused:
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am i losing it or is shark even more expensive than bluefin. assuming you add the £150 for the tool to the remap of £349
??? :rolleye:
One of the worst things you can do is choose a remap based on price. As said i had bluefin and yes it was cheap, but it wasnt cheap when i changed tuner to get the results i wanted, i ended up £450 out of pocket once you took into account the additional stages
Do your research and buy a map that has not only the figures you want (beware of exagerated claims) then look into after sales suport, and search the vag TFSI forums like here and briskoda etc for reviews and experiences both good and bad. Then look at price iMO
Alterntively you could spend thousands on a lovely golf then buy the cheapest nastiest Remap
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I've decided a custom map has to be better than a generic one
If only that was the case.. a "custom" map written by someone who hasn't got a clue can be much, much worse. But I guess we then get into the custom vs generic map debate in which I struggle to understand exactly what the buying public means by each label.
To me "generic" means written in a car park and increasing a few maps by x%. Custom means a properly developed map written for a particular car. But then if you use the same map as a baseline for another car, that technically makes it "generic" by the definition of the word.
To me, generic means throwing a map at a car and sending it away, often without any testing and almost definitely without any development. Often the people applying these maps don't even know what they're applying, they just buy a file from somewhere and flash it on to a car. Custom means written for the particular modifications on that vehicle, for that vehicle. We don't fall in to either category but offer different developed stages of tune for different levels of modifications, and then a custom option on top. But as some of our customers here will testify, everything can be changed, tweaked and altered to suit.. so I guess that makes it custom again :laugh:
So in summary while I can't agree with your statement entirely, I can understand where you're coming from. I think the key thing is going to reputable tuner rather than A. N. Other Tuning Co. In your case R-Tech have a good reputation and Nick is a nice guy but unfortunately there are many places offering "custom" tuning at x price who aren't quite as good.
Generic vs Custom is a pretty poinless argument, as Ben has said above its more a case of good vs bad. Theres a place not far from me that offers 'custom' remaps for £150, takes 20mins, rarely reads the original data and just flashes something onto the ECU that has the same/similar hardware and software numbers. Gets his software from a national 'mobile' ecu remapping outfit for £20-£30 a file and claims higher power figures than is possibly achievable. Claims they are not generic but custom as each file is made individually, whoch in a way can be deemed as custom.
But just because its custom makes no difference to the fact it is poor quality software. I recently had a car in tuned by this outfit and it was having an issue with poor power delivery and drivability, odd kickdowns on the auto box etc... I will post what I found a bit later....
I think I meant that I'd prefer a map that's tailored to my car / modifications & needs as oppose to just whacking the tuners Golf GTI map on it. Whether or not I would call it custom doesn't matter. I've heard good things about Nick and as it's within a reasonable distance of me it's my choice. If you were closer PDT I'd be there :happy2:
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Shark all the way.. ive jus bought my gti and picking it up on tuesday.. Tuesday evening i shall be up shark having it mapped stage 1.
wouldn't even consider any1 else after having custom code and a couple of other on my 1.8t leon. The shark map i ended up with was so much smoother
and jus seemed to run alot better and pull alot better. couldn't rate Ben enough :happy2:
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I've had Superchips, Custom-Code, APR and REVO on my past cars and out of all of them REVO was by far the best. Superchips performed great on the diesels too.
However, I'd still like to add that good map, bad map or indifferent map, it doesn't matter which one if the tuner doesn't fully understand the engine characteristics and more importantly, set limits to the map, so that owners cannot go too far with tweaking settings.
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I've had Superchips, Custom-Code, APR and REVO on my past cars and out of all of them REVO was by far the best. Superchips performed great on the diesels too.
However, I'd still like to add that good map, bad map or indifferent map, it doesn't matter which one if the tuner doesn't fully understand the engine characteristics and more importantly, set limits to the map, so that owners cannot go too far with tweaking settings.
Setting limits doesnt stop you going mental with nitrous John :grin:
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I have a Shark Performance Map on my Octavia and I am very please with it. Will be going stage 2 or straight to 3 in the very near future. Ben is a great bloke as well and really helpful.
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I have a Shark Performance Map on my Octavia and I am very please with it. Will be going stage 2 or straight to 3 in the very near future. Ben is a great bloke as well and really helpful.
Can't argue with that. :happy2:
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A mate had his pirelli custom mapped at rtech, the most they could get out of it was 270bhp, which is a lot less than most competitors stage 1 remap :confused:
Just found this topic...lol Customers get what they ask for here, 270-300bhp 270-310lbft with K04 cars if running Asda fuel I wont push as hard. If a customer asks for more torque in stage we will aim for stronger midrnage and reduce power at top end to aid cooling.
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It was about 2-3 years ago when he had it done nick, car was always run on vpower. I would have thought you have perfected your technique somewhat by now :wink:
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2-3years back? Was he from up north east by any chance? :happy2: I only done around 8 of them cars.. :happy2:
If he still has car and wants more power, just tell him to pop back down..
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2-3years back? Was he from up north east by any chance? :happy2: I only done around 8 of them cars.. :happy2:
If he still has car and wants more power, just tell him to pop back down..
Yep, thats the one :happy2:
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Bluefin vs Shark
Shark for me, Mikko spent around 5-6 hours re-tuning my Leon PD170 (Had DPF Delete done by another company from chesterfield) he kept making changes then testing then making changes again! it was well worth the wait! The clamed 235bhp map by the other company was alot less powerful than the shark mapping i was left with
if i ever got another Diesel with DPF theres only one place im taking it :happy2:
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Have had both Stage 1 and 2 from Shark on my TSI VRS, very happy with both maps, havent tested stage 2 yet on a RR, but last year my Stage 1 made better figures than quoted, and that was on a dyno which was reading low on quite a few (healthy) standard cars. looking forward to Shark getting their Mk6 Golf GTI to stage 2 as Im sure they will unlock some more potential that I can carry over to my car :-)
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looking to sell my bluefin with map.. pm me if your interested :smiley: