MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: gobbleplease on August 28, 2011, 10:49:24 pm

Title: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: gobbleplease on August 28, 2011, 10:49:24 pm
I think ive read every intercooler thread in the world now and im still undecided as to which one to go for, it will be used on a stage 2+ K04 car, which will be used as a daily driver and a few track days every year.
at present ive got an s3 intercooler in the hut so obviously using this would be the best option but im not sure it will be the best for a k04 car although it was perfect for my 2+ K03 car, on the upside this has decent reduction in intake temperatures over the standard intercooler and doesnt lag behind the top brands as much as i thought it would ! the only worrys i have with this is recovery and flow rates ? im sure the pressure drop in the cooler is less than the standard cooler due to improved flow rates aswell, but again not as good as some.
The APR even though it has some impressive figures, is out for me as at £1000 is far to expensive considdering the other options.
Forge i like the idea of the easy fitting / removal, there is no doubt its the best performer when it comes to reducing the air temps in extreme conditions, with flow rates that are better than standard (for the forge the rates are better by 0.3 - but remember this is also coupled to the standard cooler so it will drop a bit )although not matching The THS (not far off it though), this also seems to recover from heat saturation the best too, the only thing im not keen on reguarding the forge is the pipe work looks all squashed like it needs resized / shaped and the fact that it will restrict the airflow to the radiator.
THS, this seems like quite good value as its slightly cheaper than the forge and means that my s3 cooler can be sold further reducing the outlay, the presure drop on this is again better than standard and the best here which helps avoid producing  more heat from compression and prolongs turbo life, this is probably due to the bar and plate design and high flow endtanks like the APR, although i can help but think if bar and plate wasnt used the temperatures would be reduced further but then again you would loose the flow charactoristics so  swings and roundabouts really, TBH they have managed to reduce the air temps by about 30% over standard anyway so thats quite healthy.

Anyway thats basically what ive took from reading about each intercooler brandand i was wondering if anyone had anything to add to help make up my mind or if i had picked up any wrong info

TA
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 28, 2011, 10:53:10 pm
Why not fit the S3 cooler. Then rather than uprate it furtger why not try water/meth injection. Even better cooling effect and more power
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: gobbleplease on August 28, 2011, 10:57:10 pm
water meth sounds expensive and complicated TBH, ideally i want to fit the s3 cooler im not sure if its enough though
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 28, 2011, 11:03:28 pm
Alot cheaper than another intercooler. Devils own kits are about £270.

BTW im proposing that you fit the S3 coolee, as well as the WMI  
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7870.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7870.0.html)
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Mike-uk on August 28, 2011, 11:11:20 pm
from what ive been told the THS cooler is pritty much the best out there for the money at the mo, im getting one in the next few months :)
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: gobbleplease on August 28, 2011, 11:27:13 pm
Alot cheaper than another intercooler. Devils own kits are about £270.

BTW im proposing that you fit the S3 coolee, as well as the WMI  
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7870.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7870.0.html)


Quite mad that, id need to find a custom mapper to make the most of it, thats maybe an option for the future once im wanting more power, ive just glanced at the topics you posted, is the meth triggered by flagging temperatures or driver switching its got to need topped up fairly often too surely ?

Ill read about it a bit more tomorrow
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 28, 2011, 11:50:12 pm
if you want to make more power then have it mapped in, however the ECU has enough adaptation in it to advance timing when ever you switch it on.  You can turn it on or off at your leisure or with really expensive kits it'll do it itself.

The bonus is if you just use it as a bolt on with no map changes its just going to be like using maybe 102ron fuel with lower intakle temps.  JonnyC and many others have started using them as bolt on mods for their TTRS stage 3 cars as the intercoolers including uprated coolers dont cut the mustard.  iirc JonnyC uses an AEM kit which s purely a bolt on.  Couple others use aquamist which is lot more technical and will need changes to it.  

Also bear in mind you could use it purely as water injection, and just have it for the cooling effect.  YOu only have to add meth if your after a little more power  http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=8862 (http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=8862)
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 08:03:24 am
Starting to regret selling the labonte s4 kit now  :stupid:
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: gobbleplease on August 29, 2011, 08:43:22 am
Thanks mate good info that, i think i might go for that at some point ! Maybe start with the water and move up to the meth when im wanting more power, still pretty expensive though i think id want the aem it seems like a simple well built kit, its still pretty expensive though at about £700 fitted !  Or £400 and do it myself (including bottle at £100 !! Surely you can just use a standard vw bottle and save some money ) i think for the kit to warrant the money id need it to be injecting the meth aswell for a power increase.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 29, 2011, 09:01:42 am
This is the kit most guys recomended to me http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=29&osCsid=680474ca8c0ce301676d9a1550cfdd9a (http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=29&osCsid=680474ca8c0ce301676d9a1550cfdd9a)

Contact these guys, they can fit it much cheaper than anywhere else. And yes you can use your washer bottle
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 29, 2011, 09:03:57 am
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=28 (http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=28)

130 for washer bottle installation
150 for boot instalation

So your looking at £400 all in
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 09:11:26 am

Bad influence Sy lol.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: martziniuk on August 29, 2011, 05:14:33 pm
I'm tempted by water meth but the fact the plastic throttle slide swells using water meth has put me off, I would imagine the throttle body ain't cheap. I have thought about using a spacer but then it's getting more expensive.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: baldwined30 on August 29, 2011, 07:47:08 pm
im fitting an S3 cooler on sunday, wish me luck!! Will let you know the difference! how are people measuring the inlet temps before and after??
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 07:49:37 pm
im fitting an S3 cooler on sunday, wish me luck!! Will let you know the difference! how are people measuring the inlet temps before and after??

Logging air intake temps with vcds

You could also add the polar unit off RichN if you have highline which gives intake temps  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: martziniuk on August 29, 2011, 08:31:23 pm
Alot cheaper than another intercooler. Devils own kits are about £270.

BTW im proposing that you fit the S3 coolee, as well as the WMI  
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7870.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7870.0.html)

There is a bank hol weekend special offer on for this kit if your quick. Progressive kit £255 I think it's free del too.
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=29&osCsid=ftrfbek56b4vfl8ek8egqqr7u6
Base kit is £200 with the special offer too.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: SteveP on August 29, 2011, 08:36:59 pm
Had a THS cooler on my ED30 and the first new bit of hardware I bought for me new project was a THS, it's a well made bit of kit that works  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 08:42:03 pm

Paid AwesomeGti added tax and went for the APR, going to get some logs done when VagCom turns up (Damn bank holiday post :( )

Well built, think it's the same size / performance to the THS, the money saved buying the THS could get WMI

Will post the Air intake temp results  :happy2:

If its an option some people (me) remove the aircon radiator to get more air to the cooler
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: SteveP on August 29, 2011, 08:45:40 pm
The APR is slightly smaller than the THS one Mike  :happy2:

THS = 610mm x 415mm x 57mm = 14.44litres

APR = 590mm x 410mm x 57 mm = 13.79litres
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 08:47:43 pm
The APR is slightly smaller than the THS one Mike  :happy2:

THS = 610mm x 415mm x 57mm = 14.44litres

APR = 590mm x 410mm x 57 mm = 13.79litres

 :surprised:

Damn you Awesome!  :fighting:
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 08:49:45 pm

where's the best / cheapest place to get the THS ?  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: SteveP on August 29, 2011, 08:52:11 pm
Email THS and say your from this site, you might be able to get something off  :wink:
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 08:52:53 pm
The APR is slightly smaller than the THS one Mike  :happy2:

THS = 610mm x 415mm x 57mm = 14.44litres

APR = 590mm x 410mm x 57 mm = 13.79litres

 :surprised:

Damn you Awesome!  :fighting:

Negligable difference in performance or worth the swap?


Email THS and say your from this site, you might be able to get something off  :wink:

Cheers steve
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: SteveP on August 29, 2011, 08:57:16 pm
With that amount of difference in size I would very much doubt you will be able to tell.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 29, 2011, 08:58:10 pm
Make a twintercooler out of the apr and THS. That would be for winners
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 08:59:38 pm
I wonder if there are any major design differences that would show comparable difference in performance.  Looking forward to logging intake temps on the APR now.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 29, 2011, 09:00:38 pm
Make a twintercooler out of the apr and THS. That would be for winners

Call it the Mk5golfGti.co.uk Super Cooler lol
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: GNJ_Motorsport on August 30, 2011, 07:15:50 pm
Go for the twintercooler, for no other reason than I have them in stock  :happy2:

On a serious note, I will be going for the twintercooler on my S3 I think. I think it is the best option all round from what I have seen and read about them, from a performance, cost and ease of fitting/removal point of view as well.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: gobbleplease on August 31, 2011, 08:48:45 am
I think im going to go for the ths, and sell the s3 cooler that way it should only cost me about 500 fitted (with a little discount )

i might add spray system at some point too

Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: baldwined30 on August 31, 2011, 08:51:36 am
You got me thinking about that now and I haven't even fitted it yet! Although saything that, with the S3 and for the use I have for the car, it should be enough to smooth things out! Think if anything, ill save up for a diff!
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: liver on August 31, 2011, 09:37:24 am
cheap cooler

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350485144974?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260838918761?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: baldwined30 on August 31, 2011, 10:26:58 am
Not to sure if this will be anygood!!!
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: liver on August 31, 2011, 10:33:56 am
i know mte, i wouldnt like to use the chinese pipes, cooler should be fine, sizes are same
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: martziniuk on August 31, 2011, 12:31:41 pm
The pipes will be fine it's the flow rate of cooler that would concern me but I have used Chinese front mounts before and they have been OK.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: liver on August 31, 2011, 01:17:56 pm
the cooler is from this country
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: martziniuk on August 31, 2011, 05:13:50 pm
the cooler is from this country
Sold in this country but I suspect manufactured in China.
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: baldwined30 on August 31, 2011, 05:41:48 pm
How much is there to a cooler amyway! Pretty much like all the intakes!! I'm ashamed to say I don't even know how the IC works!!!
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: Poppa Dom on August 31, 2011, 05:47:27 pm
Trust me, they may appear simple in construction, but there is a lot of physics involved and you do get what you pay for in terms of quality with bar/plate Intercoolers. If you are interested this is actually a very good read - http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html
Title: Re: Intercooler minefield !!
Post by: RagingKileak on September 01, 2011, 09:26:18 pm
S3 cooler for me.

Matt