MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: SteveP on September 11, 2011, 10:16:45 pm
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Why
Like a lot of modifications replacing the suspension and moving to coilovers isn't a must for everyone, but for handling and cosmetic reasons it's the best way of improving both of these.
The benefit of the coilovers for me is the ability to fine tune things for your personal requirements.
In this case my target was for handling only as the current project is slightly more track focused :laugh:
As part of buying my car from VW Racing I had the option to take a set of new Coilovers they where due to be getting from Nitron, however after waiting for some time I choose to look for some alternatives that where readily available.
So after some research and advice from a few different companies / tuners, I selected a set of 2 way adjustable AST Coilovers.
What
The AST Coilovers for me combined a number of the features I liked from the others I had considered. The key things I was looking for where: -
Monotube design
Easy access to adjustment
Support for camber adjustable top mounts (and ones that can be adjusted on the car)
Low Maintenance, i.e. not a full on race damper that needed rebuilding every few thousand miles
Here are some pic's of them installed on my car: -
Fronts: -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-166.jpg&hash=057266ca96ceed7f78f3dc1b8389456908403ea7)
Comes with their own drop links
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-167.jpg&hash=3bb86c86f962a7b18b0f9b6d60a2e5cc4e42205d)
Mounted into AST's own adjustable top mounts
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-168.jpg&hash=81d2f34f99b3c8b2f4dd3be07c66ae98da5387b6)
Easy to access the adjustment knob on the base on the strut
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-169.jpg&hash=37a862d949b8288c80d14aabce5c57b6078718b3)
And the Rears: -
Rather than the normal damper and separate springs, the AST's use a rear coilover
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-170.jpg&hash=cf71cb532e6d71c261b703202e14011217fcf8f8)
And again easy access to the adjustment knob on the base of the damper
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-171.jpg&hash=02263ed6cfb9c46d13d2edaab155e76f85bf00c7)
Sourcing
I sourced mine through and had them installed by: -
KPM Racing
Phone: 01327 358645
E-mail: info@kpmracing.com
Address:
Unit 6, Silverstone Business Park
Shacks Barn Farm
Silverstone
Northamptonshire
NN12 8TB
Cost TBC (Need to dig out the invoice)
Fitting
Fitting time is around a 4-5 hours including the reseting of the tracking etc. Some will recommend corner weighing for the optimal setup but for most fast road cars this isn't going make to hugh difference IMHO.
Other versions
Other kits I considered where: -
KW V3's or Clubsports
Bilstein B16
Koni Coilovers
Plus Points
- Vastly improved handling
- Large adjustment range on the damping/rebound and the height
- Extra front camber, when combined with the camber adjustable top mount
Minus Points
Nothing for me, but as the ride comfort wasn't a consideration for me the reduction in on the road manner wasn't an issue, but a different spring rate can be selected that would be more compliant on the road.
Summary
Having previously had KW V3's, AP Coilovers and H&R Springs on stock dampers on my old Mk5/Mk6 GTI's and can 100% say the AST's beat these all hands down in the build quality, adjustably and out and out handling improvements these bring to the car.
The feedback from some Mk5 owners that where passengers at a recent track day confirmed how much of a difference these made :driver:
Also now having had chance to work on the setup of the car on track with the support of KPM it's really shows how much difference using the adjustably of the dampers alone can make.
So for me I don't believe you will find a better suspension kit for a track focused or more hard edged fast road car. :happy2:
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I wonder what the benefits of the rear coilover are? Certainly looks like quality kit!
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I wonder what the benefits of the rear coilover are? Certainly looks like quality kit!
IMO the further from the center the better the spring can be made to adjust, as it get's a longer travel to work with. That's a plus in my book.
A minus from looking at the photos is the height adjustment on the front. There's nothing from stopping the tool slide out of the notches in the ring that you adjust it with. Same flaw i find in the KW design. Though this looks a bit better as it's not fiberreinforced plastic mut alloy from the loks of it.
How do you adjust front camber and rebound ?(the top adjustment)?
How do you adjust rebound? (the top adjustment) on the rear?
The spring setup front consisting of 2 springs, is the progressive or linear springs?
Are they utilizing up side down technology?
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How do you adjust front camber and rebound ?(the top adjustment)?
Camber is adjusted on the top of the top mounts: -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-83.jpg&hash=be659bb9949eece2da34ebec4052b1327c00b9b7)
Rebound isn't controlled separately to the damping on the 2 way kit.
The spring setup front consisting of 2 springs, is the progressive or linear springs?
Not sure, I will ask the question.
Are they utilizing up side down technology?
Don't believe so, but will ask this as well
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How do you adjust front camber and rebound ?(the top adjustment)?
Camber is adjusted on the top of the top mounts: -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-83.jpg&hash=be659bb9949eece2da34ebec4052b1327c00b9b7)
Rebound isn't controlled separately to the damping on the 2 way kit.
The spring setup front consisting of 2 springs, is the progressive or linear springs?
Not sure, I will ask the question.
Are they utilizing up side down technology?
Don't believe so, but will ask this as well
Thx Steve,
Just trying to place them compared to the other options:
So as i see it it has spring diameter as the KW Clubsport which gives you a wider adjustment camber wise compared to Bilstein B16 Pss10 as they have the stock diameter to allow for reuse of the stock suspension (tops)? front :smiley:
Adjustment wise the 2 way indicates that they have height adjustment and one knob in the bottom same as the Bilsteins, this allows adjustment of both compression oan rebound at a fixed rate, same as Bilstein. Whereas the KW V3 and Clubsports has seperate comp. rebound adjustments and of course height adjustment.
The big bonus with these IMO is the utilization of fitting the spings around the rear dampers, giving the longer travel and better control over the regulation of the cars movement.
Is that almost right Steve?? :happy2:
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All sounds correct to me Jake :happy2:
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Looks like a great bit of kit Steve, please let us know how you get on with it :drinking:
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Well 3 track days down and I can say without a doubt these are worth every penny over the the KW V3's they replaced :driver:
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Well 3 track days down and I can say without a doubt these are worth every penny over the the KW V3's they replaced :driver:
With my own experience with KW, that doesn't say much :grin:
Still without having tried them,,,,, yet :wink: i rate them just above my own Bilstein B16 PSS10, due to rear spring position and camber adjustable plates front. How are they placed pricewice compared to KW and Bilstein? :party:
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By the looks of it the height adjustment ring has holes for the adjustment tool. Very secure way to move the lock ring.
The top mounts require the hole on the car to be chopped out too so bear that in line for the DIY fitting.
Pies quoted me around £1650 plus vat iirc. They look great and I really want a set.
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After looking at the Photos i can see the are Upside down, same as Bilstein, meaning a bit less unsprung weight. another plus for me :happy2:
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Nice piece of kit !! :happy2:
Some will recommend corner weighing for the optimal setup but for most fast road cars this isn't going make to hugh difference IMHO.
In respect to the high spring rates (90 and 110 N/mm) corner weighting is a must, Steve !!
The spring setup front consisting of 2 springs, is the progressive or linear springs?
The main springs are linear.
The helper springs are softer than the main springs. I bet they are ''closed'' when the car sits on ground.
So they keep tension when car is lifted or a wheel looses ground contact. This also improves traction
on corner exit slightly.
Furthermore I wonder why AST uses such high spring rate on rear. Depending the coilover construction
used on rear as well the rear spring virtually acts much stiffer than on stock position.
Factory (and most aftermarket) springs (for factory position) are equal to or softer than front spring.
So in the case of AST both aspekts tend to stiffen the rear: outwards positioning and the stiffer spring
itself. This should turn the handling away from understeer to a remarkble amount of oversteer imo.
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^^^ The spring rate was select for me by KPM and is closer to the spec they use on the VW Cup Race cars, this is why it's very stiff.
I wouldn't say is has a remarkable amount of oversteer but is more balanced that way with the dampers set to a firmer setting, if you slack off the dampers and move the arb to medium it reverts back to more understeer bias :happy2:
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I'd like to drive this setup on track. :wink:
Yes, it must be more neutral/oversteer than with a KW Clubsport,
which has stock spring position on rear and 90/70 N/mm front/rear.
But don't forget corner weighing.
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I tried these on the Golf R. Very very impressed, waiting for a set for my TT now.
Neutral handling, the front end stayed poised and precise, and it made the golf R so chuckable and easy to drive, like a go kart in effect.
Road manners where very good too, awesome kit.
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The temptress had KW V3s on before didnt it steve?
How do you find them in comparison. ASTs are fitted to this Golf R i have at the moment, and its been the deciding factor for me to go for a set of coilovers again. Compared to TFSI_Mikes KW V3s its so much more comfortable over the bumpy stuff, with no crashy-ness at all.
That said, mike has no idea what settings his are on as Awesome just stuck them on straight out of the ox, ans i have no idea what VWR have set these ASTs to. His might be on stiff, mine might be on soft, so not a direct comparison.
They seem to be the perfect balance between comfort and handling, plus easy to adjust.
Getting a set for the Golf Kart.
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With adjustable suspensions I'd recommend to try several settings.
Just turn the knobs to full stiff (clockwise) and count the 'klicks'.
That's what it's now. Then turn back to three or four klicks softer or
stiffer than before.
Very important: Write down the old setup and all the changes !!
You will forget the setup a week later. :wink:
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The temptress had KW V3s on before didnt it steve?
How do you find them in comparison. ASTs are fitted to this Golf R i have at the moment, and its been the deciding factor for me to go for a set of coilovers again. Compared to TFSI_Mikes KW V3s its so much more comfortable over the bumpy stuff, with no crashy-ness at all.
That said, mike has no idea what settings his are on as Awesome just stuck them on straight out of the ox, ans i have no idea what VWR have set these ASTs to. His might be on stiff, mine might be on soft, so not a direct comparison.
They seem to be the perfect balance between comfort and handling, plus easy to adjust.
Getting a set for the Golf Kart.
Yes I previously had V3's and wouldn't buy KW's again, I found the KW's very harsh and crashy but not as good on the track as the AST's which still feel OK on the road.
My AST have a different spring rate to the ones on the APR demo car, mine are more setup for track than fast road like on the Golf R. :happy2:
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Yes I previously had V3's and wouldn't buy KW's again, I found the KW's very harsh and crashy but not as good on the track as the AST's which still feel OK on the road.
My AST have a different spring rate to the ones on the APR demo car, mine are more setup for track than fast road like on the Golf R. :happy2:
I think that sums mikes KWs up perfectly. Think id rather have the fast road springs anyway. Its something I coukd always upgrade at a later date I guess. Are the dampers still the same or have you got higher specced shocks?
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Same spec I believe :happy2:
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The temptress had KW V3s on before didnt it steve?
How do you find them in comparison. ASTs are fitted to this Golf R i have at the moment, and its been the deciding factor for me to go for a set of coilovers again. Compared to TFSI_Mikes KW V3s its so much more comfortable over the bumpy stuff, with no crashy-ness at all.
That said, mike has no idea what settings his are on as Awesome just stuck them on straight out of the ox, ans i have no idea what VWR have set these ASTs to. His might be on stiff, mine might be on soft, so not a direct comparison.
They seem to be the perfect balance between comfort and handling, plus easy to adjust.
Getting a set for the Golf Kart.
Yes I previously had V3's and wouldn't buy KW's again, I found the KW's very harsh and crashy but not as good on the track as the AST's which still feel OK on the road.
My AST have a different spring rate to the ones on the APR demo car, mine are more setup for track than fast road like on the Golf R. :happy2:
Same experience i had with my KW V3, and the lack of ability to adjust it while it was on the car :fighting:
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Did you dig out the invoice for a price Steve? Thanks
Mike
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Interesting KWV3's were the de facto standard as was Revo, 2012 is going to be an interesting year for tuning.
Hopefully it might lead to some softening of prices
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Happens all the time, depends who gets parts to the market first as they get the lions share of custom on the forums. Miltek are an example as well.
Did you dig out the invoice for a price Steve? Thanks
Mike
Mike, Speaking to Matt the other day, ASTs work out about the same price as the KW V3s of B16 Bilsteins
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Just to confirm these are AST 4200 Steve?
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Happens all the time, depends who gets parts to the market first as they get the lions share of custom on the forums. Miltek are an example as well.
JonnyC had ASTs on his Golf years ago, maybe 3? They're not exactly new, but your point about forum exposure is right.
They're proper kit, I don't rate V3s at all - delusions of motorsport.
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Sorry to dig up and old thread, it's got me thinking. What kinda price are we looking at? I would use KPM Racing again, those guys are excellent.
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Around 2k with top mounts iirc. It's not exactly an Ast kit, but a Vwr kit now. You know what I mean. I have a price list at work.
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Around 2k with top mounts iirc. It's not exactly an Ast kit, but a Vwr kit now. You know what I mean. I have a price list at work.
Cheers Alex, is that the Sportline I's? Also what's the max drop in mm, do you know?
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What was the track time difference seen on track, on the same car between KWs and ASTs ?
PS : Is it this one disguised > http://www.awesomegti.com/vwr-tracksport-coilover-kitprovide-vehicle-information-for-custom-built-springs ?
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AWESOME!! I need some of these!
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At around 2k I don't think it's fair to compare them to KV var 3 or Bilstein PSS 10. I got my PSS 10 at around 1100 GBP.
I think the AST kit should be compared to KV Clubsport or Bilsteins 'Clubsport' variant.
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oh wow £2k!!! Thats bit over my budget!!