MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Moz on March 14, 2012, 08:07:19 am

Title: First problem with my GTI [SOLVED - Video)
Post by: Moz on March 14, 2012, 08:07:19 am
Under revving at either idle or when driving, when I let my foot off the accelerator and revs drop there is a rattling sound, almost like a heatshield or something is rattling, but it sounds more electrical if you can understand that.

By electrical, I mean it sounds like a short sharp controlled burst of noise, and not a random rattling when something is loose as it sounds exactly the same every time.

It's short and sharp, I'll try get a recording of it later and post it up. I've done a visual inspection (parked half on a bit kerb) and couldn't see anything obvious,.

Has anyone heard of anything like this before and may be able to point me where to look?

It's my fist petrol, and first petrol turbo in over 8 years of driving so not used to any sounds these make over a derv.

Thanks guys
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: RedRobin on March 14, 2012, 09:16:50 am
.
It's very difficult of course to know without actually hearing the sound, but the 2.0T FSI engine is well known for sounding 'rattley' and diesel-like when idling. But your sound is happening at other times, so.....

Presumably there is no effect which accompanies the sound such as a loss of power for example.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 14, 2012, 06:41:12 pm
Truth be told, I do feel sometimes it doesn't feel like a 200BHP GTI, sometimes it feels like the turbo is bang on boost other times it's doesn't feel as hot off the shovel and only kicks in 4000rpm. Othertimes it feels like all it wants to do is go!

But truth be told I think these two issues (if the second one is an issue at all, or just me?) exists.

I'll aim to get a video/audio up tomorrow.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: PDT on March 14, 2012, 07:24:09 pm
Where are you based?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: VC on March 14, 2012, 08:33:08 pm
loose heat shield?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 14, 2012, 08:34:45 pm
Where are you based?

Manchester mate
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 14, 2012, 08:35:31 pm
loose heat shield?

Would this be around the cat or something. Not totally sure where to look
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Meallbhan on March 14, 2012, 09:59:57 pm
I had what sounds like the ecact same problem about 6 months ago, just after I got the car.  I was convinced it was a loose heatshield or something and it used to vibrate/rattle/buzz at lower rpm when accelerating in all the gears. As the car was booked into VW for a recall to be done, I asked them to investigate.

The news wasn't good.  Turned out that before I got the car, the timing belt had been done, but whoever did the job made a dogs dinner of it.  The timing belt cover was all broken and the belt itself was all worn and just about to jump off the pulleys.  The noise I could hear was the belt rattling off the timing belt cover as the belt had worn itself slack.  I'm just thanking my lucky stars that it was noticed in time.

I don't want to alarm you because this was probably a unique occurrence, but its definately worth the time to check.  Good luck  :happy2:
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 14, 2012, 10:04:07 pm
Holy feck, the Cambelt is due this year aswell. Will I be able to see this when looking in from above?

I'm booked into awesome gti at the end of the month, so might get them to have a gander whilst it's on ramps.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Meallbhan on March 14, 2012, 10:17:01 pm
I can't remember how far you can see down the side of the cover from the top, but I didin't notice the damage when I looked at the car before buying it.  Grab a torch a have a look in the mean time, though I don't think you can see the belt with the cover on.

Chances are mine was a one off but a slack belt even without a broken cover could still do the same thing.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on March 15, 2012, 09:01:07 am
Where does the noise originate from?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 15, 2012, 10:49:14 am
Without inspecting fully certainly appears to be coming from under the front end of the car, around the bulkhead area I'd say. I will put a video/audio clip on here after 4 today.

Thanks
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: reflex11 on March 15, 2012, 01:21:10 pm
it won't be your last problem :laugh:
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 15, 2012, 05:30:43 pm
Did a video before, can anyone identify the noise? When revving is let off, it sounds like a electronic/metallic rattle, but is very consistent, same audio level and length pretty much every time.

Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 15, 2012, 05:38:32 pm
I've also added two audio clips.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64401085/Voice%20003.3ga

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64401085/Voice%20004.3ga
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: reflex11 on March 15, 2012, 07:00:18 pm
on the youtube vid sounds like its maybe somthing to do with the DV/turbo maybe?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on March 16, 2012, 08:03:34 am
on the youtube vid sounds like its maybe somthing to do with the DV/turbo maybe?

Thanks for your input mate. Really doing my nut in at the moment.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 10, 2012, 04:53:50 pm
Plot thickens, so I popped it into a local garage for a scan.

£48 later they say it's 1 of two things.

1. The CAT Converter has broke down inside and the noise is the parts inside it.
2. A blade from the turbo as broken and got stuck inside

I don't believe either, but they quotes £1100 + VAT Minimum if it was the turbo (as they said it needs manifold as well??)

So in a rage I called the place I bought it, they told me to relax and use the warranty as I should, they recommend a German Car Specialist in Leigh (a bit of distance from Warrington where I bought it from) and they are really good with warranty's and will sort it.

So dropped it off with them this morning, and waiting to hear back.

After reading the warranty, my fear is that I'm liable for any "discovery costs" so if they strip the cat out, and it's not that, I have to pay for that stripping costs.

On the plus side the other garage did a full VCDS and it came back clear on everything!

Even not ragging it, the MPG is around 21, I expected more to be honest. So maybe it is a turbo problem, power doesn't seem as fast as I thought from a 200bhp car (coming from my 130/165 chipped GT TDI Mk4)

Guess I'll have to wait and see!

Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 10, 2012, 05:05:16 pm
The only way of finding out if it is the turbo would be either get it datalogged on the road or on a rolling road.  That would tell you if the turbo was working correctly and the engine is producing the correct power.

If it turns out to be the cat then let me know mate.  I have my oe down pipe in the cupboard minus the pre cat and am in warrington next Saturday. It passed an MOT in february so is working fine.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 10, 2012, 05:13:01 pm
Hi mate, thanks for the prompt reply.

I'll wait and see what they say, as I said it's going under warranty, but I'll keep it in mind mate.

Oh and they did check the Timing belt and such and it was fine they said (which was a worry!)
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 11, 2012, 03:59:31 pm
Ok guys Garage just called. They said good news, it's not the turbo!

Bad news they said it was the cat converter after the turbo. I'm confused, does the car have two cat converters?

Garage quotes £600+ VAT and it's NOT covered by my warranty.

Not sure what to do here, I can't afford it at the moment so going to take the car back. But not sure what to do in the future, if it's worth getting a stainless system with the normal cat from turbo back?

Or is there more than one cat on these?

Any help would be great.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 11, 2012, 04:21:45 pm
If its the cat you can have mine for £30. If you are handy with a spanner its an hour job to fit yourself.
The oe downpipe does have two cats after the turbo. There is one directly after the turbo called a pre cat. They are designed to reduce cold start emissions and a lot of people remove them, as they are not needed.
Let me know as I am in Warrington Saturday and could drop it off for you. It would save you a lot of money.
Cheers Matt
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 11, 2012, 04:29:54 pm
Hi mate, I'm 99% sure he said it was the Cat behind the turbo (so this'd be the pre cat?)

I'm picking car up in the morning so will double confirm with him.

If it is indeed the precat, is there just a blank pipe that goes there or something?

If it's the main cat, I'll deffo take yours off you mate. I live in M32 South Manchester, but would pop into Warrington area (ikea side?).

I'll let you know once I pick it up tomorrow if it's pre cat or main cat.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 11, 2012, 04:39:38 pm
If its the pre cat they can just knock that out and the car will work fine without it.Dont let them tell you otherwise as my car flew through an mot in feb with the pre cat removed If its the main cat its a different story. Let me know either way mate and I will pack it in the boot. :happy2:
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 11, 2012, 05:00:57 pm
Super stuff mate, will confirm tomorrow.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 12, 2012, 10:04:57 am
Hi mate, Picked car up today it's been confirmed as the pre cat.

I'm not savvy enough to remove this myself, so will probably get a garage to do it some time at the end of the year (when I get cambelt and major service done!)
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: gazon69 on April 12, 2012, 01:02:35 pm
For the sake of £30 pal i would take 56octyvrs up on his offer. By the time you've done messing about having yours removed it will have cost you more than that. :happy2:
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 12, 2012, 04:57:15 pm
So this OE Downpipe just places the current downpipe is that right?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 12, 2012, 05:44:16 pm
Yes mate.  Its the same downpipe but my pre cat is already removed. Simply a bolt off and bolt on job. 
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 12, 2012, 07:57:05 pm
Super mate, I'll take it from you then if that's ok. I'll be coming from South Manchester  area so drop us a PM with your mobile and we can arrange a place to meet up mate
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 12, 2012, 09:04:45 pm
you have PM :happy2:
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 12, 2012, 09:50:21 pm
Sweet, see you Sat.

Cheaper than the 1k I was being quoted!
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: blackmagic on April 13, 2012, 04:25:17 am
Hope you have your problem solved . I've had a similar bizarre isuue for a while. I'm stage 2+ mind but one day I'll go for a spin and the car will be epic absolutely fantastic big smile etc. then if I go for a drive very next day there is something missing still very quick but just something not quick right 1/2 sec more lag, lower top end power etc. I've never go to bottom of it. Never any fault codes recently changed dv, n75, plugs, coilpacks. Anyone any ideas? I know I need to get a data logging session done but sods law it will be on a fine day.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 13, 2012, 07:20:04 am
Have you tried logging  your maf sensor readings as that may be on its way out.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 14, 2012, 08:49:25 pm
Massive thanks today fella, helped me out loads. Going to have a go fitting tomorrow pending weather.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 15, 2012, 12:30:02 am
Massive thanks today fella, helped me out loads. Going to have a go fitting tomorrow pending weather.

No worries mate :happy2:

I hope you get it fitted okay and your little one is feeling better.

Im hoping for nice weather as im off to the BTCC at Donnington Park.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 15, 2012, 11:07:11 am
Ah nice been there a few times, last time was a couple of years ago with a VIP for Team RAC was very enjoyable.

Jason Plato just edged it against Carl Turkington (Team RAC)

Weather was lovely.

Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on April 15, 2012, 01:29:01 pm
Its a bit chilly here but its all good :happy2:
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on April 15, 2012, 01:29:40 pm
Great stuff, I ran out of time this morning and have United at 4pm so think I'm giving it a miss today!
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on May 02, 2012, 04:54:51 pm
Well finally got round to getting a garage to fit the part I got off VRS, and sadly it didn't fit they garage told me, apparently this has a small bend after the flex and my GTI has quite a large bend making it incompatible, however the same diameter.

I am however getting him to weld them up together with a sleeve over it that should do the trick, so not a huge great deal.

be glad to get this noise sorted!!
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on May 16, 2012, 08:37:52 pm
Ok so had a local place fit the new downpipe with pre cat removed and if anything it;'s now worse.

The sound is evident on idle, it sounds very metallic, and then every time I release the revs it happens and now it's really loud.

Could it be the main cat its self? Sounds like loose metal mesh that's being ripped around every time I let off my revs.

Going to take it back to the garage on Monday to see what they say, but I'm now thinking turbo or cat etc? Performance is down, takes a while to spool etc, but I;ve bought a new diverter valve just in case also.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2012, 08:48:32 pm

Could it be the main cat its self? Sounds like loose metal mesh that's being ripped around every time I let off my revs.


....One way to check the cat is to fist the box [that doesn't sound quite right!] - I'll rephrase that: Hit the cat enclosure with the side of your fist and listen for any rattling inside. Obviously wait until it's cold!

It shouldn't rattle.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on May 16, 2012, 08:52:34 pm
Ok so had a local place fit the new downpipe with pre cat removed and if anything it;'s now worse.

The sound is evident on idle, it sounds very metallic, and then every time I release the revs it happens and now it's really loud.

Could it be the main cat its self? Sounds like loose metal mesh that's being ripped around every time I let off my revs.

Going to take it back to the garage on Monday to see what they say, but I'm now thinking turbo or cat etc? Performance is down, takes a while to spool etc, but I;ve bought a new diverter valve just in case also.

I get a little more resonance (or loose mesh as you described it) with my pre-cat removed. Garage checked the system for leaks and put the sound down to the pre-cat being removed.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on May 16, 2012, 09:19:23 pm

Could it be the main cat its self? Sounds like loose metal mesh that's being ripped around every time I let off my revs.


....One way to check the cat is to fist the box [that doesn't sound quite right!] - I'll rephrase that: Hit the cat enclosure with the side of your fist and listen for any rattling inside. Obviously wait until it's cold!

It shouldn't rattle.

Ok cheers I'll have a punch in the AM. See. How it goes on.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on May 16, 2012, 09:21:20 pm
Ok so had a local place fit the new downpipe with pre cat removed and if anything it;'s now worse.

The sound is evident on idle, it sounds very metallic, and then every time I release the revs it happens and now it's really loud.

Could it be the main cat its self? Sounds like loose metal mesh that's being ripped around every time I let off my revs.

Going to take it back to the garage on Monday to see what they say, but I'm now thinking turbo or cat etc? Performance is down, takes a while to spool etc, but I;ve bought a new diverter valve just in case also.

I get a little more resonance (or loose mesh as you described it) with my pre-cat removed. Garage checked the system for leaks and put the sound down to the pre-cat being removed.

Whilst with pre cat removed it does sound throaty, This is defo a fault problem.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on July 26, 2012, 01:30:52 pm
Well today was the day it went back into the mechanic who was stripping the Turbo out for me, eagerly awaiting the news if the turbo is knackered.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on July 26, 2012, 08:42:48 pm
Well had a call from the mechanic and he said it's the wastegate that's broken, he says even when you tap it you can replicate the noise.

Said for a recon looking £500 from what he's seen.

I know nothing of Turbos, does this wastegate form part of the turbo, as my mechanic said you have to replace the whole lot really. I've found a few GTI Turbos on Ebay for £250's

Would this be right?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on July 26, 2012, 09:23:27 pm
The wastegate is integral to the turbo housing.  I would always be cautious about buying a second hand turbo, as you dont know the history of the turbo or how its been treated.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on July 26, 2012, 09:37:12 pm
The wastegate is integral to the turbo housing.  I would always be cautious about buying a second hand turbo, as you dont know the history of the turbo or how its been treated.

So in all fairness it's worth getting a recon for £500 from a place which offers warranty etc?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Dan.b on July 26, 2012, 11:23:43 pm
Speak to CR turbos. They are fairly priced and give warranty. Never had an issue with them and we do around 5 per month at work.
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: 56OctyVRS on July 27, 2012, 03:21:59 am
The wastegate is integral to the turbo housing.  I would always be cautious about buying a second hand turbo, as you dont know the history of the turbo or how its been treated.

So in all fairness it's worth getting a recon for £500 from a place which offers warranty etc?

Thats what Id do mate
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on August 02, 2012, 09:46:24 pm
So just thought I'd update with a video.

Mechanic just dropped my car off and sent me a video he took.

He said the wastegate was knackered hence needing a new turbo.

I went all out and bought a brand new one and not a recon turbo. He says it feels totally different, so looking forward to driving this again and hopefully fall back in love with it.

Anyway, a lot of cash later, here is the video of my knackered wastegate you hear the noise of in the video.

I've no idea what I'm looking at, but I'm guessing you shouldn't be able to do this with your finger?


Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: bacillus on August 02, 2012, 09:50:56 pm
I've no idea what I'm looking at, but I'm guessing you shouldn't be able to do this with your finger?

That's affirmative....    :scared:
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on August 02, 2012, 09:53:21 pm
I've no idea what I'm looking at, but I'm guessing you shouldn't be able to do this with your finger?

That's affirmative....    :scared:

haha. Any idea what would cause this?
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Top Cat on August 02, 2012, 09:57:42 pm
I've no idea what I'm looking at, but I'm guessing you shouldn't be able to do this with your finger?

That's affirmative....    :scared:

haha. Any idea what would cause this?

Yes! putting your finger in.  :jumping:  ( sorry couldn't resist )
Title: Re: First problem with my GTI
Post by: Moz on August 02, 2012, 10:03:01 pm
I've no idea what I'm looking at, but I'm guessing you shouldn't be able to do this with your finger?

That's affirmative....    :scared:

haha. Any idea what would cause this?

Yes! putting your finger in.  :jumping:  ( sorry couldn't resist )

Haha!! At least he wore a rubber !