MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: pd9264 on March 29, 2012, 09:47:55 pm
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thinking of getting my car mapped. but cant decide. wanted revo but now thinking r tech as much cheaper and reviews are great. what do you guys think. cheers paul
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r-tech are revo dealers as well
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I would go for R-tech ( i have revo and wish i had gone to nick)
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snap, custom map would be far better :happy2:
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i rang r tech up today. there gona ring me back tomorrow to discuss my needs. r tech it is then. plus im only 50miles away. cant wait.
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I went to R-Tech! Very pleased with my map :driver:
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^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^ :happy2:
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^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^ :happy2:
:happy2:
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U won't b disappointed mate if u go to r-tech...the only problem is that your jaw bone will ache as you b smiling all the way home :laugh: :laugh:
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In exactly the same dilema... have had revo previously and had a few problems :scared:
With some of the reports I have been reading... I am swaying towards r-tech :party:
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Go to R-Tech, either map you go for, I'm sure Nick will look after you. :smiley:
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Go to R-Tech, either map you go for, I'm sure Nick will look after you. :smiley:
thanks mandy! :happy2:
Are there any switches available that will work with the r-tech map? :smiley:
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No switches for an r tech map. Just your right foot.
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Only switches with Shark (SPS) and Revo (SPS?) and APR on cruise control stalk, what do you wanna turn the power off for tho :grin:
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We can provide you with the Revo remap with the SPS switch and custom setup and log your car onthe dyno at no extra charge. Plus a demo on how to use the switch if needed.
Nick
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We can provide you with the Revo remap with the SPS switch and custom setup and log your car onthe dyno at no extra charge. Plus a demo on how to use the switch if needed.
Nick
[/quotWe can provide you with the Revo remap with the SPS switch and custom setup and log your car onthe dyno at no extra charge. Plus a demo on how to use the switch if needed.
Nick
send you a pm Nick about revo on mine and the sps switch
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I've never understood why so many people go with Revo when more suited custom maps are available for less money?
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I've never understood why so many people go with Revo when more suited custom maps are available for less money?
4 Words answer that.
1. Sheep
2/3. Power claims
4. Adjustability
:happy2:
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I've never understood why so many people go with Revo when more suited custom maps are available for less money?
...."Custom" maps? Have you read PDT's post I wonder? :rolleye:
I'll make it easier for you:
Good debate this one, and a question I am asked daily is 'can you do custom maps and how is it better than a generic map?'
The explanation could go into 3+ pages but a general rule is that a generic map is a 1 size fits all product, suitable for a wide range of applications and is not and can not be adjusted by the end user. i.e bluefin or 'flash remaps'. Flash remaps are a simple procedure where you take the car to a 'tuner' ( I use the term tuner very loosely for this type of remap option) and they get an ID of your ECU type and software version and email it to a 3rd party that will copy and paste the changed settings that were made for a similar ECU and car into a file and send it back, this file is then flashed over your current software, you get the keys back and the 'tuner' hopes it doesnt have any problems. The worst type of flash tuning is usually carried out from a back of a van.
A custom map will be very different, the tuner will likely be making the software themselfes rather than sending it away to a 3rd party and the use of a dyno is essential for back to back testing and measuring, however the use of a dyno does not define a custom map, its just a very very handy tool to have to determine wether ther changes you have made are making any real difference to power, emmissions, torque and various other parameters. A dyno allows you to back to back test the effect of the customising of the map in a controlled and safe environment. I.e if you add ignition advance is it making extra power? Is that extra bit of fuel you have added at 3000 rpm at 80% throttle lowered the exhaust gas temps to a safer levels, or has it effected the power output in any way? You get the idea, its time consuming and costly but you get the best end product available, not essesntial for the average stage 1 car but for motorsport or highly modded stuff its a must.
Then you get the middle ground such as REVO, which offers the best of both worlds. A simple sliding scale to adjust the boost, timing and fueling properties within the map and can be accurately adjusted with on-road datalogging to get a good end product. Yes it is custom to a certain extent but lacks the resolution of a genuine custom map as you can only adjust 3 parameters on a 2D sliding scale, no single adjustments for fuel vs throttle position for example, but for a quick easy product they are the market leaders for a very good reason.
As a guide, anyone that offers a 'full custom map' without the use of a dyno is cutting corners a little. Anyone that offers a custom map without any datalogging is either missinformed or pulling the wool over your eyes. We had a customer in yesterday that had a 'proper custom remap' (his words) that cost just £200 and was finished in just 10 mins, he was enquiring about rolling road testing as he couldnt tell the difference after it was done apart from it was jerky at low throttle, the 'tuner' said it will get better when the weather isnt so cold.
The thread is here: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46071.msg532131.html#msg532131
And buy cheap, buy twice.
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I've never understood why so many people go with Revo when more suited custom maps are available for less money?
...."Custom" maps? Have you read PDT's post I wonder? :rolleye:
I'll make it easier for you:
Good debate this one, and a question I am asked daily is 'can you do custom maps and how is it better than a generic map?'
The explanation could go into 3+ pages but a general rule is that a generic map is a 1 size fits all product, suitable for a wide range of applications and is not and can not be adjusted by the end user. i.e bluefin or 'flash remaps'. Flash remaps are a simple procedure where you take the car to a 'tuner' ( I use the term tuner very loosely for this type of remap option) and they get an ID of your ECU type and software version and email it to a 3rd party that will copy and paste the changed settings that were made for a similar ECU and car into a file and send it back, this file is then flashed over your current software, you get the keys back and the 'tuner' hopes it doesnt have any problems. The worst type of flash tuning is usually carried out from a back of a van.
A custom map will be very different, the tuner will likely be making the software themselfes rather than sending it away to a 3rd party and the use of a dyno is essential for back to back testing and measuring, however the use of a dyno does not define a custom map, its just a very very handy tool to have to determine wether ther changes you have made are making any real difference to power, emmissions, torque and various other parameters. A dyno allows you to back to back test the effect of the customising of the map in a controlled and safe environment. I.e if you add ignition advance is it making extra power? Is that extra bit of fuel you have added at 3000 rpm at 80% throttle lowered the exhaust gas temps to a safer levels, or has it effected the power output in any way? You get the idea, its time consuming and costly but you get the best end product available, not essesntial for the average stage 1 car but for motorsport or highly modded stuff its a must.
Then you get the middle ground such as REVO, which offers the best of both worlds. A simple sliding scale to adjust the boost, timing and fueling properties within the map and can be accurately adjusted with on-road datalogging to get a good end product. Yes it is custom to a certain extent but lacks the resolution of a genuine custom map as you can only adjust 3 parameters on a 2D sliding scale, no single adjustments for fuel vs throttle position for example, but for a quick easy product they are the market leaders for a very good reason.
As a guide, anyone that offers a 'full custom map' without the use of a dyno is cutting corners a little. Anyone that offers a custom map without any datalogging is either missinformed or pulling the wool over your eyes. We had a customer in yesterday that had a 'proper custom remap' (his words) that cost just £200 and was finished in just 10 mins, he was enquiring about rolling road testing as he couldnt tell the difference after it was done apart from it was jerky at low throttle, the 'tuner' said it will get better when the weather isnt so cold.
The thread is here: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46071.msg532131.html#msg532131
And buy cheap, buy twice.
Yeah but Revo is not a custom map either :happy2:, plus I dont know how they justify the high price when they ripped the software from APR (so much for extensive R & D for Revo) :signLOL:
Jabba, R-tech and Shark all offer Maps that are adjustable based on mods you have and how you drive, Linear (for smooth drivers), max power (for willy wavers) and punchy for those that like to feel themselves pressed against the seat back.
If your mainstream and like name dropping when talking about cars and want a big name and want to pay high prices then APR/Revo are deffo for you, if your not mainstream try something different, all the happy "Alternative" tuned car owners can't be wrong can they? :happy2:
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Yeah but Revo is not a custom map either :happy2:, plus I dont know how they justify the high price when they ripped the software from APR (so much for extensive R & D for Revo) :signLOL:
....My post didn't claim that Revo maps were custom. In fact they offer a separate service for custom maps. With regard to the court cases between APR and Revo, my understanding is that basically, the courts have decided that there isn't enough evidence of wrongdoing to hold Revo Technik liable for any monetary damages to APR. Furthermore, as they were dismissed with prejudice, the judge has summarily closed the case and told APR not to come back again. The legal claims by APR were started way back in 2003, so do you think that Revo are still using the same code without further development?
Jabba, R-tech and Shark all offer Maps that are adjustable based on mods you have and how you drive, Linear (for smooth drivers), max power (for willy wavers) and punchy for those that like to feel themselves pressed against the seat back.
....Revo maps are adjustable as well - Via a SPS box switchable by the car owner or by any appointed Revo dealer. The adjustable settings are Boost/Timing/Fuel - I have a long experience of adjusting the Revo maps on my car directly according to my changing hardware performance mods. Furthermore, as a direct result of Revo's adjustability I was able to nurse a leaking turbo until diagnosed and resolved (I wrote a thread on the subject).
The best, and fastest, way to drive ANY car regardless of which remap or if remapped at all, is smoothly. Changing the way you drive is not a safe way to drive - You should strive to maintain your best standards within the the limitations of your vehicle at all times.
If your mainstream and like name dropping when talking about cars and want a big name and want to pay high prices then APR/Revo are deffo for you, if your not mainstream try something different, all the happy "Alternative" tuned car owners can't be wrong can they? :happy2:
....I feel happier with an established mainstream tuner with a wide network of dealerships as backup. It adds to my peace of mind. I have Revo but my second choice would be APR. What completely puts me off Shark is Ben's inclination to rubbish his rivals whenever I see him. I am proud to pose Revo stickers on my car:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FOZ_rearspeed.jpg&hash=635cb1e5dee6fa3d357e7f68210a978fdd0cedfa)
Over 60,000 miles on Revo :happy2:
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I have a Stage 1 R-Tech map and cannot fault it,completly transforms the car from standard...
The car has been mapped now for close to 2 yrs and ive had no probelems what so ever.
Nick and the guys offer a great service for a great price. :happy2:
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I would love to get an r-tech map, but would like someway of being able to switch back to stock if required :sad1:
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I would love to get an r-tech map, but would like someway of being able to switch back to stock if required :sad1:
Believe me mate,after having the car mapped the last thing you would want to do is put it back to standard.. :signLOL:
An if you were to sell your car and wanted to put it back to standard it would just be a case of getting it flashed.
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I would love to get an r-tech map, but would like someway of being able to switch back to stock if required :sad1:
Believe me mate,after having the car mapped the last thing you would want to do is put it back to standard.. :signLOL:
An if you were to sell your car and wanted to put it back to standard it would just be a case of getting flashed.
i can see his point especially if your taking it for a service or letting someone else drive.. e.g. i would let my mrs drive it stock but not mapped as she has no experience of driving something over a 1.6 and id feel like she might not be able to.control it or reqlise how quick it could accel...
my ideal would be two.maps changeable one for mpg and the other for fun (i.e. speedy fun)
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my ideal would be two.maps changeable one for mpg and the other for fun (i.e. speedy fun)
....That's one of the benefits of DSG :evilgrin: Except that I only use D-mode in urban speed limit areas.
I think that APR offer this via the stalk and Revo via their latest SPS box (far less convenient to change) < Don't take this as 100% true though.
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my ideal would be two.maps changeable one for mpg and the other for fun (i.e. speedy fun)
....That's one of the benefits of DSG :evilgrin: Except that I only use D-mode in urban speed limit areas.
I think that APR offer this via the stalk and Revo via their latest SPS box (far less convenient to change) < Don't take this as 100% true though.
100% agree, D is for pootling around (which I do mostly) and S is for leaving some tool sat on your rear bumper in a Focus ST behind :happy2: (It seems all Focus St drivers believe their cars are quick for some reason :stupid:)
P.S. is this the second thing we have agreed on Robin? :signLOL:
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P.S. is this the second thing we have agreed on Robin? :signLOL:
....It might even be the third thing we have agreed on, mate :grin:
But I'm still not going to share a room with you! Though I do hope we may meet each other one day :happy2:
Myself, and many others, used to have furious forum disagreements with a guy called Teutonic_Tamer but whenever we met in person we were like the very best of friends. It was simply a Respect thingy.
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P.S. is this the second thing we have agreed on Robin? :signLOL:
....It might even be the third thing we have agreed on, mate :grin:
But I'm still not going to share a room with you! Though I do hope we may meet each other one day :happy2:
Myself, and many others, used to have furious forum disagreements with a guy called Teutonic_Tamer but whenever we met in person we were like the very best of friends. It was simply a Respect thingy.
I think your right!.
Yeah its all good having your own point and hammering at it, but when your face to face with someone its easier to say "agree to disagree" then start talking cars over a pint :signLOL:
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with nick at r-tech, you could ask him to put a standard map on a cd or pen drive. Then buy a tool from ebay and flash it with laptop?
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Oh and it makes no difference what so ever wether your car is mapped going in for a service,just tell them on arrival and make sure they dont load any new software on the car......
And some of you let your Mrs drive your car !!!! :signLOL:
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Oh and it makes no difference what so ever wether your car is mapped going in for a service, just tell them on arrival and make sure they dont load any new software on the car......
....That's what I used to do and so I then knew that the remap had got wiped and that it needed reloading via my Revo agent JKM.
Before getting a remap I actually asked my VW dealer for their opinion and whether it would affect our good relationship. They asked me which remap and when I said Revo they said no problem at all Robin.
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with nick at r-tech, you could ask him to put a standard map on a cd or pen drive. Then buy a tool from ebay and flash it with laptop?
One of the reasons i chose a shark remap over rtech was due to the sts device. What software would one actually need to reload an rtech map onto car from a laptop?
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....That's what I used to do and so I then knew that the remap had got wiped and that it needed reloading via my Revo agent JKM.
Before getting a remap I actually asked my VW dealer for their opinion and whether it would affect our good relationship. They asked me which remap and when I said Revo they said no problem at all Robin.
Your right mate,
I told them from the start and they have(so far) been very good,and a lot of the time unless you tell them that the car is mapped they wouldnt even know....
I dont regret for an instant having the map done,it's a crime that they are not like it from standard, IMHO.
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This thread has made me laugh. I like the sound of R-tech. I'll keep researching on this stage I stuff.
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This thread has made me laugh. I like the sound of R-tech. I'll keep researching on this stage I stuff.
R-Tech FTWC :happy2:
I'm starting to sound like a bit of a fanboy :grin:
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This thread has made me laugh. I like the sound of R-tech. I'll keep researching on this stage I stuff.
R-Tech FTWC :happy2:
I'm starting to sound like a bit of a fanboy :grin:
Sorry whats FTWC? Its look increasingly like R-tech. Ill keep looking! Thanks.
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Im booked in at r-tech this month for a stage 2 ,cant wait :smiley:
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Have you got a stage one or are you going straight to stage two. What made u chose r tech?
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This thread has made me laugh. I like the sound of R-tech. I'll keep researching on this stage I stuff.
R-Tech FTWC :happy2:
I'm starting to sound like a bit of a fanboy :grin:
Sorry whats FTWC? Its look increasingly like R-tech. Ill keep looking! Thanks.
Haha it's FTW (For the win) with a typo :grin:
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Im booked in at r-tech this month for a stage 2 ,cant wait :smiley:
You won't regret it! Those guys really know they're stuff when it comes to the TFSI :notworthy:
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Is your map a "custom" one or a generic one?
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I've never understood why so many people go with Revo when more suited custom maps are available for less money?
4 Words answer that.
1. Sheep
2/3. Power claims
4. Adjustability
:happy2:
They want the flatspot? :jumping:
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:signLOL:
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Flatspot ? revo or r-tech are we talking about here ?
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I can't decide between Revo or R-Tech. I had my mind set on P Torque but heard some bad stories about their maps.
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Revo you have the adjustability with the SPS switch and can also be custom setup on the rolling road to an extent, very strong fun remaps, and very cheap to upgrade to stage2 or stage 2+ ect.. We can provide the revo remap with free rr session.
R-Tech map will be tuned unique to your car on the day to your mods and to how you want, ie smooth linear, kick ass torque, best of both worlds and if your fussy about how you want the power curves then you can also have hands on input on the mapping the, This can take upto 3 hours of dyno time.
With both remaps we will provide the same level of service and care, the usual full health check. smoke test and data logging ect..
Nick
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Hi Nick,
I spoke to Revo and they said they load the map, and then take the car out on the road, log and adjust to suit. Do you log on the road as well as on the Dyno?
It would really help me, and others if you could somehow get an image up of a Revo Stage 1 map curve, and then show your curve options laid over the top. So I/we can see where the difference is etc
George
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Nick doesn't map a car for the most power he can get out of it,its more bout drive ability of the car
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It would really help me, and others if you could somehow get an image up of a Revo Stage 1 map curve, and then show your curve options laid over the top. So I/we can see where the difference is etc
....George, every single car is different, even when two cars have the same mods.
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...Robin, it's only to give us an idea. There isn't so much difference to make it indistinguishable, for example every P Torque graph is almost identical.
Let's see what Nick says!
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nick is a revo dealer also, so you can try both and see what your happy with. Nick would be the better option :happy2:
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I will pull some r-tech rr graphs off the PC and try to post them up. But with all my map i start with my low power base map and tune the car on to the dyno to how you want the car or to how I think best compliemts the cars setup.
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I have been emailing r-tech about getting the custom map done on my car.
Depending on what my insurance renewal is like, might get it done before inters :happy2:
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Depending on what my insurance renewal is like, might get it done before inters :happy2:
....Depending on the usual insurance premium factors such as your postal district, age, history, etc, if you have various mods (or plan to have) it's worth enquiring with an insurer such as Greenlight who specialise in modded cars and don't hit you based on bhp. [I have no vested interest in saying this - I am just a satisfied Greenlight customer in my third year with them].
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Depending on what my insurance renewal is like, might get it done before inters :happy2:
....Depending on the usual insurance premium factors such as your postal district, age, history, etc, if you have various mods (or plan to have) it's worth enquiring with an insurer such as Greenlight who specialise in modded cars and don't hit you based on bhp. [I have no vested interest in saying this - I am just a satisfied Greenlight customer in my third year with them].
Thanks Robin. Im already with Sky who are friendly towards getting a re-map . but im also getting a TBE soon so dont want a big jump in my insurance premium.
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Hi, i will say that i did approach Greenlight for my potential mods, along with increased bhp, and to be honest they pretty much ignored my suggested mods of air intake and Milltek exhaust, but, and i quote, 'we base our premium on the increase in power'! That said, my premium (with them) for all the aforementioned, with a Stage 1 remap was about £680.00, more than double my current 'stock' premium, ouuuchhhhhh!!!!
Andrew
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Hi, i will say that i did approach Greenlight for my potential mods, along with increased bhp, and to be honest they pretty much ignored my suggested mods of air intake and Milltek exhaust, but, and i quote, 'we base our premium on the increase in power'! That said, my premium (with them) for all the aforementioned, with a Stage 1 remap was about £680.00, more than double my current 'stock' premium, ouuuchhhhhh!!!!
Andrew
....I expect that other factors such as where you live and age may have been a factor.
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Of that Robin i have no doubt, but those are also considerations that every other insurance company takes into account! Just proves how extra power can often be the deciding factor, they somehow assume that it turns mere mortals into Schumacher wannabees!! :stupid:
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Just proves how extra power can often be the deciding factor, they somehow assume that it turns mere mortals into Schumacher wannabees!! :stupid:
....[RR with Greenlight fanboy hat on] But that's where Greenlight differ - They are a bunch of enthusiasts who know about modded cars (they only insure performance cars) and specialise. However, they are 'fussy' about what/who they insure and so they should be. Anyway, when Tony @ Greenlight reads this he will probably post something.
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Oh that might be useful!! :driver:
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Getting back on topic...
Any news on comparable curves Nick? :happy2:
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If you look in here you will see mine (R-Tech):
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40255.495.html
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In for a stage 2 at R tech tomorrow cant wait !
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Lets us know how you get on....Ive got to spend my hard earned on boring stuff :-(
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In for a stage 2 at R tech tomorrow cant wait !
your love it mate! :driver:
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I love it ok lol 262bhp and 307lbft ! it feels awesome,it's a very smooth wide linear power band ,deceptively quick
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R-Tek over Revo anyday!
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If I had not gone Jabbasport Stage 2 I would have gone with R-Tech, chose Jabba over R-Tech as I have dealt with them several times before and they are closer to me, Revo was actually nearest but as I wanted a "custom" map and not a plug n play generic map (With gimmicks) I decided against them (plus it's well known I prefer smaller tuning companies and try to avoid both Revo and APR) :grin: :grin:
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Just come home after a 5 hour round trip from R tech, all I can say is WOW what an amazing driving experiennce on the way home!
Nick did .his magic and couldn't of been more helpful and knowledgeable. Power went from a standard and healthy 201bhp and 216 lbs ft to 241bhp and 310 lbs ft from his stage 1 custom remap,well chuffed !
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nice one, although is your new bhp right, ie. the same?? :confused:
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whoops,updated !
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Very similar to mine - I got 248bhp & 311lb/ft. Feels quicker than it is - must be all the torque!
Glad your please matey :happy2:
How's your clutch taking it?
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Very similar to mine - I got 248bhp & 311lb/ft. Feels quicker than it is - must be all the torque!
Glad your please matey :happy2:
How's your clutch taking it?
:( makes mine seem quite low powered now
234bhp and 281lbft
he thinks mine is a bit blocked up though after months of over fuelling so am going back next month for a check up.
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I have K&N panel filter & pre-cat removed - that's why mine made a little more :grin:
Are yours mapped to 99RON unleaded also?
Graeme
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I have K&N panel filter & pre-cat removed - that's why mine made a little more :grin:
Are yours mapped to 99RON unleaded also?
Graeme
yeah im on vpower
My car was a bit poorly.. only 214bhp before visiting Nick. He managed to get it to 234 but recommended running it to clear out and come back in a month so hopefully I'll see better figures then.
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Very similar to mine - I got 248bhp & 311lb/ft. Feels quicker than it is - must be all the torque!
Glad your please matey :happy2:
How's your clutch taking it?
Nice figures. How is your clutch taking it? Do you know what the standard clutch can take torque wise?
I'm going to have my pre cat removed and fit a p flo then go to r tec. Just want my clutch to last!
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My clutch was slipping on the way home from R-Tech :sad1:
And my spark plugs were causing it to misfire :sad1:
The clutch has good & bad days, it will need replacing at some point but will have to make do until funds allow. Had the same problem with my old Focus ST straight after a remap.
It's not so bad if I keep the revs up and drive it through the gears. Using the torque in 4th -6th gear is a no-no :grin: the revs just rise and the car tries to keep up. . .
Nick said the standard clutch (when new) will take 320lb/ft but the springs soften over time and it loses it's strength
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Cool thanks for the info!
What mileage was yours remapped at?
I might ask Nick not to go to crazy with the torque to prevent slip.
My old mk3 ibiza Cupra was 240bhp/280ftlbs on standard clutch with no slip which was very quick (13.7 1/4 mile) so id be happy with the Golf having a similar amount of Go!
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Cool thanks for the info!
What mileage was yours remapped at?
I might ask Nick not to go to crazy with the torque to prevent slip.
My old mk3 ibiza Cupra was 240bhp/280ftlbs on standard clutch with no slip which was very quick (13.7 1/4 mile) so id be happy with the Golf having a similar amount of Go!
It was on around 48k miles. Clutch was fine as standard and no where near the end of its life. 311lbft is a bit much for it though
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Very similar mileage to mine.
How do you rate the k&n panel filter? Any increase in noise?
I'm thinking of getting one and having the pre cat removed then a trip to r tec.