MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: Obese on April 17, 2012, 10:16:28 pm
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I found this little thread the other day and thought it would be a good place to add any other useful info if you come across any more
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=283972&page=20
It would seem that it is ridiculously easy proving you have the correct parts :happy2:
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Thanks for sharing its mint!
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WOW :congrats:
I have a feeling Mike is gonna be planning some new mods while in Afghanistan :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi612.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt210%2Fmonte0797%2F368f5a56.jpg&hash=a9a189b0ee84354a180f12776889e5348038fd1a)
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Yikes! He's like the SEAT equivalent of teff!
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Okay, but won't converting to 4WD make a FWD 2.0T FSI platform car feel like an Audi to drive? In other words, although more sure-footed, duller?
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If stripped with lightweight parts and high power i reckon it will still be bags of fun even with 4wd. different geometry setups could help make it feel more nimble too, perhaps?
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If stripped with lightweight parts and high power i reckon it will still be bags of fun even with 4wd. different geometry setups could help make it feel more nimble too, perhaps?
....In other words, if like SteveP's trackday weapon. Or a full-on race car!
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I can view the link. Is he doing a proper 4wd conversion or just a haldex one?
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I always wondered what would be involved in doing this as they do a GT 140 4MO but not a 170. Have thought weather the 140 running gear would fit.
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Best plan is to start with a 4mo chassis and drop the lump in that. To retro fit a 4mo system on a fwd base car is a massive amount of work, as you need to chop the arse off one and join it to the other.
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Best plan is to start with a 4mo chassis and drop the lump in that. To retro fit a 4mo system on a fwd base car is a massive amount of work, as you need to chop the arse off one and join it to the other.
....Takes the message on my T-shirt to the very extreme! But hats off to those who do it successfully.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRR%2FRR_TshirtGolfMod.jpg&hash=c5573bc81fbc453f85b4c1db6523c7b8b7edd949)
Except that some Mad Englishmen can't spell!
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Robin do you have to spam every thread with your photos? :stupid:
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Robin do you have to spam every thread with your photos? :stupid:
....Sorry mate but have you missed the point of the T-shirt's message?
If a Moderator doesn't remove it and lots of other folks complain, then I'll remove it to oblige ya'll. :rolleye:
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Yikes! He's like the SEAT equivalent of teff!
I second that, another mental build but he will have something unique at the end of it
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Robin do you have to spam every thread with your photos? :stupid:
WTF?
So far you, (and now me) are the only one that has spammed this post.
So what do you think about the 4wd Seat then?
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Robin do you have to spam every thread with your photos? :stupid:
George... Robin is part of the furniture here, like it or not! haha! Ive seen his mug more times than I've seen my own! ;)
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I still think that a front wheel drive GTi/Leon would be quicker round a track than an S3. Look at why all the Leon Supacopa's are front wheel drive rather than 4.
Its a fairly simple conversion that I looked into a few years back. The subframe just swaps over and its quite simple to wire the haldex up too.
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I still think that a front wheel drive GTi/Leon would be quicker round a track than an S3. Look at why all the Leon Supacopa's are front wheel drive rather than 4.
Its a fairly simple conversion that I looked into a few years back. The subframe just swaps over and its quite simple to wire the haldex up too.
....So does that mean that what we are talking about here (most of the time! :wink:) is a conversion to the Haldex version of 4WD? In other words it's only 4WD when the ABS etc system needs it.
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I still think that a front wheel drive GTi/Leon would be quicker round a track than an S3. Look at why all the Leon Supacopa's are front wheel drive rather than 4.
Its a fairly simple conversion that I looked into a few years back. The subframe just swaps over and its quite simple to wire the haldex up too.
....So does that mean that what we are talking about here (most of the time! :wink:) is a conversion to the Haldex version of 4WD? In other words it's only 4WD when the ABS etc system needs it.
What? :confused:
It becomes 4WD once the fronts start to slip.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldex_Traction
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....So does that mean that what we are talking about here (most of the time! :wink:) is a conversion to the Haldex version of 4WD? In other words it's only 4WD when the ABS etc system needs it.
What? :confused:
It becomes 4WD once the fronts start to slip.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldex_Traction
....That's what I meant - I just didn't know which system it was so I wrote "etc". I think I probably should have written ESP or TC.
Thanks for the wiki link - An opportunity to learn more :happy2:
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Best plan is to start with a 4mo chassis and drop the lump in that. To retro fit a 4mo system on a fwd base car is a massive amount of work, as you need to chop the arse off one and join it to the other.
Not quite. Its not a Mk2 Golf we are talking about here. There is plenty of room in the trans tunnell. Its tight, but just requires the rear subframe swap and electrics, different rear suspension etc. Oh and maybe fuel tank changes and also spare wheel well. But still cheaper if you have invested in a car already than swapping the entire shell.
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I still think that a front wheel drive GTi/Leon would be quicker round a track than an S3. Look at why all the Leon Supacopa's are front wheel drive rather than 4.
Its a fairly simple conversion that I looked into a few years back. The subframe just swaps over and its quite simple to wire the haldex up too.
I follow you on the supercopa's theory, but thing is the are limited in bhp and torque due to regulations, us streetgeeks aren't :innocent:
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I still think that a front wheel drive GTi/Leon would be quicker round a track than an S3. Look at why all the Leon Supacopa's are front wheel drive rather than 4.
Its a fairly simple conversion that I looked into a few years back. The subframe just swaps over and its quite simple to wire the haldex up too.
I follow you on the supercopa's theory, but thing is the are limited in bhp and torque due to regulations, us streetgeeks aren't :innocent:
The Supacopa that ran the Barcellona 24 hour that came 1st in the FWD class and around 3rd overall ran an APR 2871 turbo kit! :P :love:
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I still think that a front wheel drive GTi/Leon would be quicker round a track than an S3. Look at why all the Leon Supacopa's are front wheel drive rather than 4.
Its a fairly simple conversion that I looked into a few years back. The subframe just swaps over and its quite simple to wire the haldex up too.
I follow you on the supercopa's theory, but thing is the are limited in bhp and torque due to regulations, us streetgeeks aren't :innocent:
The Supacopa that ran the Barcellona 24 hour that came 1st in the FWD class and around 3rd overall ran an APR 2871 turbo kit! :P :love:
That's below 400 bhp right We might consider passing 500, but again i agree that a fwd can be quicker and definatly safer driving on the limit, which is the reason i haven't converted to 4wd,,,,,,,,, yet :signLOL:
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Am I right in thinking that when a 4WD hits its limit, which is beyond that of a FWD, and lets go it lets go big time? It seems that way from the results of accidents I've known about involving Audi quattro's.
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Robin do you have to spam every thread with your photos? :stupid:
George... Robin is part of the furniture here, like it or not! haha! Ive seen his mug more times than I've seen my own! ;) it wouldn't be the same without him! :congrats: :pomppomp:
edit
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Jay, is that edit because of also the sometimes dumb questions I ask? :laugh: :happy2:
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Am I right in thinking that when a 4WD hits its limit, which is beyond that of a FWD, and lets go it lets go big time? It seems that way from the results of accidents I've known about involving Audi quattro's.
That's right and the reason for me not having a 4wd yet, as the border between doing great and wrecked the car is borderline thin with 4wd, as opposed to the "safe" slip of the front end which can be solved by letting go of the gas :smiley:
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Jay, is that edit because of also the sometimes dumb questions I ask? :laugh: :happy2:
It was edited because i read it back and thought it might be interpreted negatively or positively. I wanted to go for the latter ;)
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Jay, is that edit because of also the sometimes dumb questions I ask? :laugh: :happy2:
It was edited because i read it back and thought it might be interpreted negatively or positively. I wanted to go for the latter ;)
....I love you too, Jay! :drinking:
We all love/like others in spite of their human faults :grouphug: - Sorry if I'm sounding like the old hippy I am.
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There is loads of posts on the Internet covering the aspect of and actually carrying out the 4wd conversion. It is simple to do, the parts can be picked up from lots of areas at reasonable prices and is something different to do. However i have looked into this in the past and kept umming and ahhhing over it, but decided against purely for a couple of reasons already stated, one being when they let go they WILL let go big style and it will be very serious, two you have a lot more fun in a 2wd, three being the fact mistakes and oversteer and under steer are a lot easier to correct in fwd and my main one is it is IMO the same as Alex states quicker than 4wd due to all of the above and weight issues even stripped at least on a dry circuit. On a wet circuit ok may be different, and this is track work were talking about here before anyone jumps down my throat and goes on about the strip and 0-60 times etc etc... I'm talking about track not the strip and gunning it in a straight line. :happy2: this is just my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to a different one.
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Its all personally what you want from the car, im planning on going gt3071/gt3076 at some point in the next year or so and really want to make the most of the extra power.
is there any info out there on wiring in the haldex as the mechanical and fabrication side of things i will be able to breeze just the wiring side of things i dont like.
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For all those haldex haters, you can get a haldex controller that switches the 4wd to permanent.
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having done 4 trackdays in the S3 I feel the only place its let down is a slight reluctance on the intial turn in, once turned the grip is very good. I find it pretty forgiving and predictable. Once on the power if the front looses grip, it sends some power to the rear which seems to help turn the car then the power is transferred back to the front to sort of pull you out of the corner, something like that :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
they struggle on the brakes too because of the extra lard :laugh:
I've had a couple of modded GTI's so have driven both although not on the track in the GTI, but of lot of the opinions are from people who probably haven't driven an S3/Golf R on track
the TTRS runs a very similar system and they are pretty capable
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For all those haldex haters, you can get a haldex controller that switches the 4wd to permanent.
don't think you can :happy2:
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I'm sure you could, I've seen R32 turbos with them?
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I think the TTRS runs a Gen 4 Haldex and correct me if I'm wrong but the S3 and R32 run earlier, less capable systems.
My understanding is that the Gen 4 is more predictive in it's moving of power.
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I stand corrected
http://hpamotorsports.com/haldex.htm
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I think the TTRS runs a Gen 4 Haldex and correct me if I'm wrong but the S3 and R32 run earlier, less capable systems.
My understanding is that the Gen 4 is more predictive in it's moving of power.
The 8P1 S3 and R32 run Gen 2, the later S3 and TTRS run Gen 4 IIRC, the later systems react more quickly making them more predictable.
But I have never found mine anything like unpredictable on the track, the exact opposte in fact, it lets you get away with murder :laugh:
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Gaz I'm not being biased just because I own a rocco pal that's obviously only fwd.it's obviously also the whole way my car is setup with regards all the extensive mods, cage etc which helps a great deal with cornering and grips levels. I have owned and tracked quite a few my previous cars being a mk5 r32 and a s3, the s3 is obviously the better of the pair due to the heavy lump. However the s3 just isn't as nimble as the track rocco. I know it's different as its pretty much race spec, I would say put a standard s3 and a standard rocco together and I'd fancy the s3 obviously, but when we're on these type of forum people aren't interested in standard just the mods etc if you know where I'm coming from. :happy2:
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Gaz I'm not being biased just because I own a rocco pal that's obviously only fwd.it's obviously also the whole way my car is setup with regards all the extensive mods, cage etc which helps a great deal with cornering and grips levels. I have owned and tracked quite a few my previous cars being a mk5 r32 and a s3, the s3 is obviously the better of the pair due to the heavy lump. However the s3 just isn't as nimble as the track rocco. I know it's different as its pretty much race spec, I would say put a standard s3 and a standard rocco together and I'd fancy the s3 obviously, but when we're on these type of forum people aren't interested in standard just the mods etc if you know where I'm coming from. :happy2:
totally agree with everything you have said there pal, the spec you of your rocco is a different leaque all together. I wasn' trying to say the S3 is better than the GTI or rocco, I just don't agree with some of the other things that were being said about the haldex set-up, I think alot of peoples opinions are based on hear say not experience, as yours are. On the same note I'm sure a box fresh S3 wouldn't be as happy on the track as my mildly modded car, apart from the brakes :smiley:
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I'd say yours is a little more than mildly modded! :wink: you've done arbs, coilies, brakes, and lots of engine goodies haven't you?
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I'd say yours is a little more than mildly modded! :wink: you've done arbs, coilies, brakes, and lots of engine goodies haven't you?
busted :smiley:, as I've said my point was the opinions made not from experience, at the end of the day the haldex set-up only adds 75kg by all accounts, the weight of a short stocky mancunian.
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I'd say yours is a little more than mildly modded! :wink: you've done arbs, coilies, brakes, and lots of engine goodies haven't you?
busted :smiley:, as I've said my point was the opinions made not from experience, at the end of the day the haldex set-up only adds 75kg by all accounts, the weight of a short stocky mancunian.
Or a leg for us normal folk. :wink:
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Audi offer a Sports Differential to their quattro system on the S4 and that certainly contributes greatly to the handling and importantly its feel. But is this optional extra available for the smaller S3 platform?
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No Robin. No 'sports diff' on the S3.
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haha thats my car :) the AWD works fine now anyway :)
little play in the snow :smiley:
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Your car is Awesome Michel :notworthy:
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Your car is Awesome Michel :notworthy:
+1 :notworthy: :notworthy:
It must be a sign...
Leon, called Michel, Carbon bonnet & tailgate (that Ive wanted from day 1 :drool: :drool:) Is this what I must do? :grin: :laugh:
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It must be a sign...
Leon, called Michel, Carbon bonnet & tailgate (that Ive wanted from day 1 :drool: :drool:) Is this what I must do? :grin: :laugh:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FJesusSaysModify.jpg&hash=c09c473e8db84d3934731290da0ed68a226d6a55)
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I had always been a big member of the FWD is more fun the Haldex AWD club.
Now ive driven plenty of K04 FWD cars that are very heavily modified with practically every chassis and engine mod and IMO it is no more fun than the Golf R that APR loaned me. Both are excellent to drive, both corner like they are on rails but their is one massive difference.
Even a very heavily modified FWD struggles with traction despite good tyres, and a great chasis setup even with an LSD and semi slick tyres to try and tame the power. The Golf R however has absolutely no traction issues at all despite being on average road tyres.
All the Golf had was the Race Haldex kit in 'road' mode and the AST coilovers. Everything else was stock. The speed and grip you could get around an empty roundabout is immense, and thats not even the best bit. Theres the exit speed because your on full power soooo much earlier.
I agree the FWD might seem more nimble and probably quicker in the dry, but at Stage 2+ levels of power its to much for the wheels unless you use really sticky tyres and are pretty gentle with the throttle and then of course if theres a hint of dampness or its cold....well IMO its no contest, a haldex powered car is faster in the twisties. Power is no god if it just spins away.
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I agree the FWD might seem more nimble and probably quicker in the dry, but at Stage 2+ levels of power its to much for the wheels unless you use really sticky tyres and are pretty gentle with the throttle and then of course if theres a hint of dampness or its cold....well IMO its no contest, a haldex powered car is faster in the twisties. Power is no good if it just spins away.
....I very much agree with so much of what you are saying about power being no good without traction etc. BUT.... Recently I had a drive-to-the-max against a Golf R on about 8 miles of B-road twisties and he could not shake me off and believe me he was trying. I hasten to add that I maintained a constant good braking distance and wasn't tailgating him. As you know, my GTI's handling is very well sorted and includes a LSD. However, on another occasion on the same road, I simply couldn't stay near a AWD Nissan Pulsar GTiR < That was no contest in the Pulsar's favour.
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You have a very good balance of power to chassis mods so its the perfect setup as you havent got 360 horses trying to spin the tyres up. That said with your power mods id expect you to have the legs on a Golf R in a straight line anyway. Add the brakes and chassis mods and the weight difference im not surprised you kept up.
He probably wasnt to chuffed though :grin:
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You have a very good balance of power to chassis mods so its the perfect setup as you havent got 360 horses trying to spin the tyres up. That said with your power mods id expect you to have the legs on a Golf R in a straight line anyway. Add the brakes and chassis mods and the weight difference im not surprised you kept up.
He probably wasnt to chuffed though :grin:
....Yes, he didn't give a friendly wave (as I would have done) when he turned off. I've come across him before on straight dual carriageway but I laid off before going into licence losing territory. He started it though. His Golf R is probably standard and I usually have about 270 horses but only 245 at that time.
But as I say, the AWD Pulsar was simply stunning! I don't know what '4WD' transmission system they use.
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You have a very good balance of power to chassis mods so its the perfect setup as you havent got 360 horses trying to spin the tyres up. That said with your power mods id expect you to have the legs on a Golf R in a straight line anyway. Add the brakes and chassis mods and the weight difference im not surprised you kept up.
He probably wasnt to chuffed though :grin:
....Yes, he didn't give a friendly wave (as I would have done) when he turned off. I've come across him before on straight dual carriageway but I laid off before going into licence losing territory. He started it though. His Golf R is probably standard and I usually have about 270 horses but only 245 at that time.
But as I say, the AWD Pulsar was simply stunning! I don't know what '4WD' transmission system they use.
Those Pulsar's are rapid when they're standard, I think a 0-60 time of 5 secs, but they are are very rarely standard, so I imagine you came across a modded one which would have been like $hit off a shovel!!!!
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was it one of these Robin
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F8%2F8a%2FNissan_Pulsar_GTI-R_001.JPG&hash=1012d441be0817ad5be32c92e894000ca8196ba8)
If so like jussa said that like playing russian roulette as there are some massively powerful ones knocking around and they weigh about the same as you front tyres :scared:
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Yes it was just like that, Sy, and it was black. With that big rear spoiler I thought at first it was just a chavmobile but I soon witnessed its alarming acceleration! Done, I'm sure, for my benefit. I didn't bother to even try to give chase!
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Yes it was just like that, Sy, and it was black. With that big rear spoiler I thought at first it was just a chavmobile but I soon witnessed its alarming acceleration! Done, I'm sure, for my benefit. I didn't bother to even try to give chase!
:signLOL: they are immense!!
As Sy says though, they don't weigh anything!!
I reckon when that's heavily modded there isn't much that can keep up with them.
Saying that though, finding them nowadays is like finding rocking horse $hit!!
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Yes it was just like that, Sy, and it was black. With that big rear spoiler I thought at first it was just a chavmobile but I soon witnessed its alarming acceleration! Done, I'm sure, for my benefit. I didn't bother to even try to give chase!
:signLOL: they are immense!!
As Sy says though, they don't weigh anything!!
I reckon when that's heavily modded there isn't much that can keep up with them.
Saying that though, finding them nowadays is like finding rocking horse $hit!!
Not so much finding them. Finding one thats been looked after and not ragged to death
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True!
I think I've actually only ever seen one on the road, and it was parked.
Picking up a good example must be difficult.
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If its still got the umbrella then its a good one!
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Your car is Awesome Michel :notworthy:
Thanks! :D
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Your car is Awesome Michel :notworthy:
+1 :notworthy: :notworthy:
It must be a sign...
Leon, called Michel, Carbon bonnet & tailgate (that Ive wanted from day 1 :drool: :drool:) Is this what I must do? :grin: :laugh:
i have the moulds. and also got a firm that can make them with help of my moulds. so i can help you guys if you want :) But i think it would be quite expensive and also shipping i think can be quite much.
But if you want i can help making it happen :)
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It must be a sign...
Leon, called Michel, Carbon bonnet & tailgate (that Ive wanted from day 1 :drool: :drool:) Is this what I must do? :grin: :laugh:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FJesusSaysModify.jpg&hash=c09c473e8db84d3934731290da0ed68a226d6a55)
I agree ;)
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Car is still not mapped and have a big exhasut leak in the vband connection betveen turbo and downpipe.
But runs quite ok anyway. :P
Cant wait to get everything fixed and finalize the mapping :D
heres against a brand new Audi RS5 :)
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Been wondering about this a lot, really want a 4wd car but love my edition 30!
In reality what parts and cost would it be to convert?
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FROM READING
full rear subframe,
transfer box
propshaft
exhaust
fuel tank and fuel pump
abs unit and controller
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Just thought i would start this topic of again, bought a golfmk5 several weeks ago, crazy power, so was thinking about 4wd conversion, spoke to r5gtt on here and he sent me a link about it, goes in mid April to have this done will keep you updated. :wink:
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Who's doing it? How much is is setting you back?
Jas
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Just thought i would start this topic of again, bought a golfmk5 several weeks ago, crazy power, so was thinking about 4wd conversion, spoke to r5gtt on here and he sent me a link about it, goes in mid April to have this done will keep you updated. :wink:
Any chance of sharing said link? :party:
This is something I'm toying with also
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Just thought i would start this topic of again, bought a golfmk5 several weeks ago, crazy power, so was thinking about 4wd conversion, spoke to r5gtt on here and he sent me a link about it, goes in mid April to have this done will keep you updated. :wink:
Any chance of sharing said link? :party:
This is something I'm toying with also
Yes could be an interesting project add me to that list please. :happy2:
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Sorry put all info in general area, where it says What did you and your mark 5 do today.
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Just thought i would start this topic of again, bought a golfmk5 several weeks ago, crazy power, so was thinking about 4wd conversion, spoke to r5gtt on here and he sent me a link about it, goes in mid April to have this done will keep you updated. :wink:
Any update on this
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We at AKS do the 4wd conversions. Just finished a K1 ready to be collected Monday. We popped a video up on the TFSi Tuning page on FB a couple of nights ago.
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We at AKS do the 4wd conversions. Just finished a K1 ready to be collected Monday. We popped a video up on the TFSi Tuning page on FB a couple of nights ago.
Just out of interest how much would something like that cost ?
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We at AKS do the 4wd conversions. Just finished a K1 ready to be collected Monday. We popped a video up on the TFSi Tuning page on FB a couple of nights ago.
:innocent: :evilgrin:
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Got the ASBO back from her 4WD conversion and safe to say I'm happy. :innocent:
Check my build thread if you're interested so I don't spam this one with loads of pictures! :happy2: