MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: Dp_Ed30 on April 30, 2012, 05:47:29 pm

Title: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on April 30, 2012, 05:47:29 pm
Right guys been trying to find info on this for a while now but not much luck,

Seems a lot of people advise against it but doesn't seek many have tried it and are just 'going with the flow'

Hybrid turbos work on many cars and I have tried them on focus STs astra vxrs and cosworths so why not on the GTI

To anybody who has tried them what sort of power could we see running

TBE
APR pump
Cooler
Ko4 hyrbid
WMI
CAI

Don't fancy going all the way to stage 3 yet but a nice interim solution should be good
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Tamiyoman on April 30, 2012, 06:06:06 pm
I think Jabbalad on here is running a hybrid K04, his dad owns jabbasport in peterborough, might be worth a call to see what difference (if any) it makes to performance, I am there tomorrow myself and was hoping I might get offered a ride in his Hybrid K04 Ed30, his mother told me it was running almost 400bhp  :driver:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 30, 2012, 06:07:41 pm
There are several people who have done Ko4 Hybrid

Hurdy, Steve Jnr @ Statller, Alex @ AKS, luke @ Jabbasport, Owen LCR (I think) and probably more

There is a fair bit of info on it  :wink:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: MAT ED30 on April 30, 2012, 06:18:52 pm
Don't think John ever did the turbo just nos
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on April 30, 2012, 06:22:21 pm
Don't think John ever did the turbo just nos

That was my understanding aswell

Any links to info?
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 30, 2012, 06:22:55 pm
Don't think John ever did the turbo just nos

my mistakethen ,sorry.  I thought he did.  Not like john not to do a power mod  :P
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Janner_Sy on April 30, 2012, 06:35:25 pm
The thing is there have been a few guys who have done this, but so far i think only Stadtlers with their GIAC hybrid map released figures on a dyno sheet.  Ive never seen any dyno printouts for Alex's vRS or for Jabbalukes Ed30, only predicted figures.

Alex's vRS should be able to run an even more aggressive map than the others though as he has uprated  internals.  Plus he has a vRS so his car is infinetely better  :innocent:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on April 30, 2012, 06:47:59 pm
How much power are we talking? 420-440 would be nice  :grin:

Were would u recommend to get a hybrid? Lobo seem like the ones to go for?
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: danishmkvgti on April 30, 2012, 06:52:17 pm
How much power are we talking? 420-440 would be nice  :grin:

Were would u recommend to get a hybrid? Lobo seem like the ones to go for?

If 440 bhp is the target then take a gtx3071R with Cupra/ED30 internals, instead of paying big bucks for a solution there's only half an answer IMO
We'll have one overhere soon, a cupra with stock internals and the GTX3071R and a target of 450bhp  :smiley:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Janner_Sy on April 30, 2012, 07:02:37 pm
I think the best way to look at it is you'll be looking at +30-40hp gain over a stage 2+ car.

Reason I say that is if you take a stage 2+ car to JKM you'll get about 330hp, same car to Awesome GTI you'll get 360hp, with AMDyou'll be looking 380hp.  So saying 400-420hp is difficult as its dyno dependant but the gain would similar.

ie JKM370hp, Awesome 400hp, AMD 420hp.  Which figures is accurate.....who knows

Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Hurdy on April 30, 2012, 08:12:41 pm
I think Sy has just about got it right. The dyno lottery plays a big part in how much power you get from a car at Stage 2+ with a hybrid and WMI.

I have been in several stage 2+ cars and by far the most ferocious of these has been Statllers DSG Edition 30.

GIAC Extreme map - stage 2+
THS Intercooler
Modified intake
Autotech HPFP
3" straight though exhaust.
Low pressure "in-tank" uprated fuel pump internals
Turbo dynamics hybrid K04
Devil's own WMI

Ran over 430bhp on their own rollers, but that only tells half the story. The power delivery is brutal and continuous. If I was back in a K04 engined car, these are the mods I'd do (maybe a different map though?!?) as for normal driving they are smooth and then for trackwork and dragstrip they are superb too. :happy2:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on April 30, 2012, 09:12:00 pm
How much for a hybrid ko4 & where can you buy from?
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: berg on April 30, 2012, 09:53:21 pm
difficult choice and i would be interested to hear all options but would it not be advisable to either stay at stg 2+, go to stage 3 with a 3071 or sell up and get something with 4wd/rwd which will have the traction to handle 450bhp? :rolleye:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 01, 2012, 02:59:55 am
Having owned a few FWD cars with over 400bhp I can tell you it's no were near as bad as people make out.

Good mapping and half a brain cell when driving and it's fine, yeh they spin but so does a stock 200bhp gti

Think il make some calls in the morning, hybrid ko4 seems like a bit of a untapped resource with a decent gain to be had
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 01, 2012, 09:09:22 am
Let us know how you get on mate :happy2: :happy2:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 01, 2012, 02:41:41 pm
I looked on the turbo dynamics web site,they quoted £1390+vat & they also quoted good for around 400bhp..
Maybe a groupbuy might lower the price if there is enough intreast
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Hurdy on May 01, 2012, 02:45:26 pm
You also need to supply them with a relatively low mileage K04 turbo as a donor. Perhaps a Loba L0380 would be better?
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Poverty on May 01, 2012, 03:30:04 pm
Loba are working on a LO450
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 01, 2012, 03:51:16 pm
More info please :party:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Poverty on May 01, 2012, 04:23:01 pm
More info please :party:

Best send em an email mate!
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on May 01, 2012, 04:23:56 pm
Loba are working on a LO450

Maybe a daft question but is it a new variant of Ko4 Hybrid or a totally different turbo?

 :happy2:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 02, 2012, 11:42:26 am
Spoke to matt from turbo dynamics, if we can get 3 guys buying the hybrid ko4 he can do it for 1250+vat...(it's a new turbo not a exchange deal)
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: ktlstar on May 02, 2012, 11:44:26 am
What software will support the k04 hybrid ?

Currently got Revo2+
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 02, 2012, 11:50:20 am
If I do go for the hybrid I be getting r-tech to do the mapping
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: ktlstar on May 02, 2012, 11:52:58 am
Sounds good, and you think 400hp is capable with this tubby ?

I believe jabbas was selling his at 400hp on the hybrid but no printout to prove it  :surprised:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 02, 2012, 12:32:17 pm
Sounds good, and you think 400hp is capable with this tubby ?

I believe jabbas was selling his at 400hp on the hybrid but no printout to prove it  :surprised:

Tbh I be happy with 370-380bhp
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: muckipup on May 02, 2012, 12:42:06 pm
Be careful here folks with all this talk about hybrid turbos and true 400+bhp as you could be getting the torque in to rod-bending territory even if others have been OK without uprated internals....so far.
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 02, 2012, 12:46:16 pm
Be careful here folks with all this talk about hybrid turbos and true 400+bhp as you could be getting the torque in to rod-bending territory even if others have been OK without uprated internals....so far.

Fair point, and if your having to uprate engine internals you might as well stick a big turbo on it instead IMO
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 02, 2012, 01:02:39 pm
So what power are the ed30 internals good for
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: ktlstar on May 02, 2012, 01:05:06 pm
Johnnyc proved around 420hp i think with a GT3071 BSH kit.



Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 02, 2012, 01:16:41 pm
Spoke to matt from turbo dynamics, if we can get 3 guys buying the hybrid ko4 he can do it for 1250+vat...(it's a new turbo not a exchange deal)

Any quotes on figs?
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 02, 2012, 02:54:07 pm
Spoke to matt from turbo dynamics, if we can get 3 guys buying the hybrid ko4 he can do it for 1250+vat...(it's a new turbo not a exchange deal)

Any quotes on figs?

He said good for around 390-400bhp...depends on what bolt on goodies you have eg intake etc etc and depends on the mapping too
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: ktlstar on May 02, 2012, 02:59:52 pm
What about torque ? BHP sell cars, torque wins races ;)
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 02, 2012, 03:00:46 pm
Wonder if apr can do us a map, if so I'm in on a group buy
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 02, 2012, 04:18:03 pm
Wonder if apr can do us a map, if so I'm in on a group buy

Why not go to r-tech??they can do u a custom map to suit all the stuff on the car
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: james on May 02, 2012, 04:33:00 pm
When my k04 goes bang I am going to install a GT28/30.   If you already have a k04 I would not waste your money, unless you’re going to fit it yourself.  Just a waste might as well stick a big turbo on it will cost you the same.
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on May 02, 2012, 04:51:13 pm

Ah, Keith!

If I dceide on Ko4 Hybrid, WMI, or Both  :innocent: later in the year.  Can my mapping be calibrated to get the most from that setup?   :drinking: :drinking:

For sure.  With a Ko4 hybrid we are looking at quite a bit of work though so I'm not sure how to price it.

If you want just WMI, that's simple, takes half a day and I wouldn't charge you for it.
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 02, 2012, 06:14:43 pm

Ah, Keith!

If I dceide on Ko4 Hybrid, WMI, or Both  :innocent: later in the year.  Can my mapping be calibrated to get the most from that setup?   :drinking: :drinking:

For sure.  With a Ko4 hybrid we are looking at quite a bit of work though so I'm not sure how to price it.


If you want just WMI, that's simple, takes half a day and I wouldn't charge you for it.


Sounds good to me. Will give a call to TD in the morning and see whatbwe can sort out
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 03, 2012, 01:04:45 pm
I have just got off the phone speaking to craig from stattlers,he said that there is a lot of money involved for not much power increase..u would need rs4 fuel rail etc etc...also traction is a big issue,even if yr sensible with yr feet..End off the day,it won't blow yr socks off if u sat in a hybrid ko4 car..Craig said its good when u get traction but most off the time u can't
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Poverty on May 03, 2012, 08:04:33 pm
Loba are working on a LO450

Maybe a daft question but is it a new variant of Ko4 Hybrid or a totally different turbo?

 :happy2:

a variant of the k04 hybrid, but loba essentially throw every bit in the bin
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on May 03, 2012, 08:10:12 pm

Be interested to see the driveability characteristics if its got that much more 'oomph'
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 03, 2012, 08:17:05 pm
Let's say yr car is at stg2 which is running around 340-350bhp.....add a hybrid turbo & rs4 fuel rail + custom map & your looking at 380-390bhp est but thats around 2k+ & maybe a diff for better driveability that's another 1k est
Would have to think again about going down this route
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Jussa on May 03, 2012, 08:18:05 pm
Interesting chat this.
When you say the hybrid is good for 400 to 420 because of internals, would the S3 internals be better than the Eddies?
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Jussa on May 03, 2012, 08:19:17 pm
Let's say yr car is at stg2 which is running around 340-350bhp.....add a hybrid turbo & rs4 fuel rail + custom map & your looking at 380-390bhp est but thats around 2k+ & maybe a diff for better driveability that's another 1k est
Would have to think again about going down this route
Not sure she you're finding 340-350bhp at stage 2  :confused:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 03, 2012, 08:31:00 pm
Looks like things are getting interesting. When I used a hybrid on a Astra gsi it was awsome, only 20-30bhp more peak power but that was only half the story, it was so much stronger through the rev range
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: danishmkvgti on May 03, 2012, 09:19:54 pm
Interesting chat this.
When you say the hybrid is good for 400 to 420 because of internals, would the S3 internals be better than the Eddies?


S3 and ED30 is the same internals
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 03, 2012, 09:50:09 pm
Looks like things are getting interesting. When I used a hybrid on a Astra gsi it was awsome, only 20-30bhp more peak power but that was only half the story, it was so much stronger through the rev range

U are tempting me mate..what's the drive like??
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 03, 2012, 10:06:10 pm
On my old gsi I added a inlet manifold and hybrid ko4 peak power went from 301 to 335bhp but at 5600rpm the power was 91bhp more than before.

The car was overall alot faster than before, I had all the talk about hybrids dont work but I tried it and it did.
Later on I went for a gt2876r and bumped power to 404bhp. The car was amwsome when on boost but overall the 335bhp hybrid setup was a faster car as it was always in the powerband with nearly zero lag
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: dan930 on May 03, 2012, 10:10:27 pm
On my old gsi I added a inlet manifold and hybrid ko4 peak power went from 301 to 335bhp but at 5600rpm the power was 91bhp more than before.

The car was overall alot faster than before, I had all the talk about hybrids dont work but I tried it and it did.
Later on I went for a gt2876r and bumped power to 404bhp. The car was amwsome when on boost but overall the 335bhp hybrid setup was a faster car as it was always in the powerband with nearly zero lag

this afternoon I was thinking forget about it,but after reading yr thread or got me thinking again...this forum is bad for yr wallet man
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Dp_Ed30 on May 03, 2012, 10:24:44 pm
Lol I bought the ed30 as a basic car that I wasn't going to mod and just to be under the radar.

Had it just over a week and I'm at stage 2+ already lol

It's all fun and games there is far worse things to waste £ on :party:
Title: Re: Let's talk ko4 hybrids
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on May 03, 2012, 10:43:41 pm
Lol I bought the ed30 as a basic car that I wasn't going to mod and just to be under the radar.

Had it just over a week and I'm at stage 2+ already lol

It's all fun and games there is far worse things to waste £ on :party:

Thats good going!