MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Track Day Technical => Topic started by: RedRobin on May 30, 2009, 03:27:38 pm

Title: Track Day and Nordschleife Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on May 30, 2009, 03:27:38 pm
....

Anyone recommend any insurers?

I'm with Greenlight and am very happy with them but they don't cover The 'Ring.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Hurdy on May 30, 2009, 05:02:42 pm
I thought that the 'ring was "officially" a public toll road and therefore subject to highway regulations and therefore covered?

I knew Adrian Flux get jittery over the 'ring, but didn't know others didn't cover it. :confused:

I'm interested in this too as I'll be going at some point. :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on May 30, 2009, 06:09:24 pm
....

I have discovered that regardless of whether The 'Ring is technically a public toll road or not, insurers such as Greenlight specifically will not cover it at all. Even Moris who are supposed to specialise in track days won't cover it and "are not covering any track days at the moment".

It appears that many people who go on The 'Ring do so uninsured and are happy to take that risk. I'm afraid that I'm not wanting to take that risk.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on June 01, 2009, 09:29:06 am
Have a read through the back of any decent car mag and you'll find loads. If you know anyone in the business, its far easier coming to a bespoke arrangement, but I appreciate this isn't easy if you don't have someone friendly to help.

Google is your friend - Try:

www.competitioncarinsurance.co.uk (I've used these and they're recommended)

http://www.nowellandrichards.co.uk/track-day-insurance.aspx
http://www.heritage-quote.co.uk/track-day-cover.cfm
www.hertsinsurance.com
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on June 01, 2009, 12:05:41 pm
^^^^
Thanks, Mike, but.......

- CCI don't cover The 'Ring.

- Nowell & Richards would want £350-£450 for 2 specific days or £200-£250 for 1 specific day, plus 10% excess - Far too expensive and so not worth it.

- HIC don't cover The 'Ring.

- Heritage are constantly engaged but I've left a message.

But thanks for trying to help :smiley:
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on June 01, 2009, 02:05:55 pm
I guess a lots changed since the downturn - most places couldn't give cover away fast enough a while back.

Have you thought about hiring a car whilst out there instead, for what you're going to spend on insurance, you may as well batter someone else's car around fully comprehensive instead.

http://rsrnurburg.com/index.php
http://www.rent-racecar.de/gb/index.html

To name a few...
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on June 01, 2009, 02:31:41 pm
....

Er, drive around The 'Ring for the first time ever in an unfamiliar car I'd be driving for the first time? - I don't think so!! Besides, it would cost about the same as insuring mine for The 'Ring.

It's an interesting idea but I'm not that bothered about driving around The 'Ring - It would be nice just as an interesting toll road but I wouldn't be "battering" any car around there anyway. I'm sure one of the guys will give me a gentle passenger ride so at least I'll see what all the fuss is about. I wouldn't want a local fast Ring Taxi because I'd probably throw up due to motion sickness if I was in the back.

Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on June 01, 2009, 02:41:19 pm
....

Just as a side note, my enquiries have shown that currently most insurers are only interested in giving trackday cover if you buy a whole year of it and also are already insured with them. And UK only.

Start factoring in extras such as fees, tyres, and brakes wear and the whole thing starts getting expensive.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on June 25, 2009, 12:30:16 pm
....

Having now driven 4 laps of The Ring plus 2 passenger rides, I'm well and truly...........................











.......................... H O O K E D !!


Hooked to the extent that I'm simply not interested in driving on any other track. The Ring has everything and has confirmed what I thought. But the insurance problem remains.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 14, 2009, 08:36:50 pm
haha you should try living where i live then. 92 mile away. god i love working for the queen, shes sent some sh*t places but this one is awesome. albeit it is very expensive. ive been living here now since march and have done 35-40 laps now.

i now need new brake fluid ive done a set of tyres and nearly had to bin a few pairs of underwear. nightmare. im off there tomorrow for the day, missus comes down as well to take some pics. plu im trying out the WALK for the first time on track.

I must admit, im not new to track days but i get mega nerves when i approach that barrier before going on the tack, shakey left eg syndrome(luckily that disapears as soon as im through). No track in UK compares to it, not even close
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: gillm on August 14, 2009, 08:51:21 pm
not slating the ring at all i love it . but have you ever thought about doing uk day robin ? alot cheaper and so much easier as more often then not you can day run them .
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 14, 2009, 09:01:21 pm
All track days rock i think. I wanna look into starting time trial events. Itd have to be at a low level though for a few reasons

1, id be rubbish :ashamed:
2, some of the cars on the scene are so specially modified with seemingly endless budgets that our cars are not in their league

but i think the competitiveness would be awesome to experience. there are loadsa options available though.

Hill climbs, time attack, air field, normal track, drifting, all for between 100-150 a time
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Hurdy on August 14, 2009, 09:15:29 pm
I'd love to be Just 92 miles from a 'ring equivalent....Oh wait I have the Snake pass on my doorstep, not unlimited, but technical enough to help out with my track cravings :evilgrin:

Not quite enough though as I'm off to the 'ring in October :jumping:

400+bhp should be quite a time on there :rolleye: :driver:
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 14, 2009, 10:16:48 pm
400hp, jesus, tell me you have a diff and more. is it progressive or is the boost pretty much on or off
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on August 14, 2009, 11:13:58 pm

not slating the ring at all i love it . but have you ever thought about doing uk day robin ? alot cheaper and so much easier as more often then not you can day run them .


....Hi gill,

I'm not quite understanding your question - Are you asking me if I've thought about doing trackdays in the UK?

Yes, and based on passenger rides they don't appeal to me at all - Not enough features (mostly converted airfields) and also short laps. The Ring is much more like a road and I've always preferred that dynamic. The full circuit of Brands Hatch might appeal.

I'm off again to The Ring in a few weeks with Hurdy. Also it's good to get out of the UK.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Hurdy on August 14, 2009, 11:24:40 pm
400hp, jesus, tell me you have a diff and more. is it progressive or is the boost pretty much on or off

Not in yet!

I bought Jonnyc's  GT2871R kit with the larger exhaust housing, then subsequently bought the THS cooler, hot climate radiator on top of the stock one, injectors, in-tank pump, pistons rods etc etc etc. The Quaife had been sat under the house and is now going to be part of the build. Should all be done before the ring trip in October. My tuner has done a few of these before and says it should provide 440-470bhp and Keith at APR agrees that the kit with pistons etc should provide 380-410whp=437-471.5bhp

Sooooo looking forward to the 'ring with that kit on :evilgrin:

Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: gillm on August 15, 2009, 12:22:09 pm

not slating the ring at all i love it . but have you ever thought about doing uk day robin ? alot cheaper and so much easier as more often then not you can day run them .


....Hi gill,

I'm not quite understanding your question - Are you asking me if I've thought about doing trackdays in the UK?

Yes, and based on passenger rides they don't appeal to me at all - Not enough features (mostly converted airfields) and also short laps. The Ring is much more like a road and I've always preferred that dynamic. The full circuit of Brands Hatch might appeal.

I'm off again to The Ring in a few weeks with Hurdy. Also it's good to get out of the UK.

 no not at all its just that over the past 5 years or so the prices of laps at the ring has nearly doubled . ans there are so many clubs going over it makes the track very busy , and often closed due to smack ups . every time i have been over it costs me around £700 , laps , hotel, petrol , tunnel , etc etc .

for about £200 you can have a open pit day on most uk circuits and sleep in you own bed at night and have just as much fun .
 
last year i only managed to get 2 days in due to a slight issue with my mk1 but it was so much cheaper and just as much fun .
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on August 15, 2009, 01:32:14 pm

 no not at all its just that over the past 5 years or so the prices of laps at the ring has nearly doubled . ans there are so many clubs going over it makes the track very busy , and often closed due to smack ups . every time i have been over it costs me around £700 , laps , hotel, petrol , tunnel , etc etc .

for about £200 you can have a open pit day on most uk circuits and sleep in you own bed at night and have just as much fun .
 
last year i only managed to get 2 days in due to a slight issue with my mk1 but it was so much cheaper and just as much fun .


....It's a personal preference thing.

I'm only partly English and my family has had permanent homes in various parts of Europe and so I have travelled extensively on Europe's roads. I love the different atmosphere, the different foods, the different people. Europe feels like another home for me. I enjoy travelling and not knowing where I'm going to be staying that night. Because I don't work, I'm 'at home' 90% of the time and enjoy getting away. Home is wherever I am at the time. It's the way I've been brought up and I've tried to share the same with my daughter. She's recently been to New York and is up in the wilds of Scotland and The Edinburgh Festival right now. She's already got two homes - One with me and one with her mother.

So, for me I'd rather spend my money on one trip to that uniquely very special Nordschleife than three or four UK trackdays on an airfield with no other infrastructure. How much a lap costs isn't what it's about for me - Same as mpg - It's smiles-per-gallon.

The last Europe trip I did with my daughter, we only decided the night before where we were going to drive to the next day. I did the same around America for a couple of months but Native America is quite a different world and a very different pace.

Linky : - Road Trip: Germany-Austria-Italy with lots of pics!.... (http://biali.ritey.com/forum/index.php?topic=65.0)

As you know, I'm off to The Ring for only the second time and perhaps after that second experience I may consider a UK trackday but it'll have to be a pretty special one!

:happy2: 8) :happy2:
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on August 15, 2009, 02:53:22 pm
Converted airfields are rubbish, you need something with a challenge like Oulton, Cadwell, Donnington, Brands GP... Think of them as practice and the chance to improve your craft, meaning you'll get more out of things like the 'Ring.

The 'Ring is NO place to learn how your car handles, the road will never give you chance to explore the limit - trackdays along with being tremendous fun, are the safest and best responsible way to prepare yourself for getting the most out of your car elsewhere.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on August 15, 2009, 04:04:17 pm

Converted airfields are rubbish, you need something with a challenge like Oulton, Cadwell, Donnington, Brands GP... Think of them as practice and the chance to improve your craft, meaning you'll get more out of things like the 'Ring.


....Oulton, Cadwell, and Donnington are all far too far away for a trackday without staying the nights either side in grimsville. That's why I mentioned Brands earlier, and only the full circuit.



The 'Ring is NO place to learn how your car handles, the road will never give you chance to explore the limit - trackdays along with being tremendous fun, are the safest and best responsible way to prepare yourself for getting the most out of your car elsewhere.


....I hear and understand what you are saying but I don't completely agree - You don't have to explore the absolute limit to enjoy yourself. In fact, if my tyres are continually squealing or I'm getting wheelspin then I consider I'm not driving well. I'm not saying that trackdays aren't fun but more that I'm fussy about them and love the environment and dynamic of the road.

Why do so many car manufacturers use The 'Ring to see how their cars handle and perform? - The Nordschleife is a Mecca for chassis engineers from Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and the VW Group. If a car works well on the Nordschleife, engineers will tell you, it'll work well on just about any road in the world. So far, I drive The 'Ring the same way as I do a fast B-road (at 23mph, as Nathan says :grin:)
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: gillm on August 15, 2009, 06:05:11 pm
donny is not to far i have done it twice , just by getting up at 6 and get there for 830/8 . castle combe is also not too far plus there is always truxton !

not driven thruxton but i plan to soon i hope . the club gti final track tour day will be up soon and im guessing it will be donny again :)


defo a good day to attend
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on August 16, 2009, 11:56:34 am
The trip and the night before/after are all part of the fun!

Doing them in your own car teaches you how every single aspect of it works and how it reacts when you do it wrong. You'll not have got to 75% of your car's ability on the road, I guarantee it - ask TC how surprised he was about what a MK5 can actually do given the right enviroment. In the hands of a Pro driver and not an amature like me, you'd be boggled!

I consider them an investment towards my 'Ring trips, as it means I can go out there with more confidence and ability - this doesn't mean I try breaking records by any stretch of the imagination, but it means I can get far more exhilaration for my Euros.

It might take you 5 trips and 50 laps to get you anywhere near confident enough on the 'Ring to start seeing what it can really deliver. That's a hell of a lot of money, a track day is a cheaper advanced ticket to Mecca.

You can't eat Lobster and then dismiss all other food as a waste of your time. You need the appertisers & accompaniments to make that dish taste all the more luxurious.

The C-GTI track days are the best I've been on and a great enviroment to learn, seriously consider coming along on the next one with us.

Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 16, 2009, 12:18:44 pm
C-gti track days???? can i have a link please. i used to use javelin trackdays
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on August 16, 2009, 12:21:15 pm
^^^^
Great advice as always, Mike :happy2: :drinking:

I laughed out loud at the lobster comparison. I once had a job which took me on various trips to the most exclusive hotels in the world (I was designing and art directing pics for a brochure). Obviously we were fed and accommodated in the actual hotels and Lobster Bisque was one of my favourite starters. Whenever we came back to London for breaks I headed straight down to the local greasy spoon cafe! I love all food!

So, tell me more about where and when for C-GTI track days - And I'm sorry but I still don't want an airfield circuit. It'll be good to meet you anyway.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on August 16, 2009, 12:23:05 pm
Club GTI have a track day tour, various circuits and a 'Ring trip each year - all VAG, usually discounted, always the best tracks and guaranteed fun!

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=76
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Janner_Sy on August 16, 2009, 12:42:24 pm
I actually like airfield track days, they are the places to really push the limits of your car so when you lose it, you only get a traffic cone.

I prefer a track as you can see your lines easier and concentrate more on driving well,but when you come off there is more chance of damage.

Andf the ring is just nuts in every sense, only spoiled by W*nkers on bikes and supercars and the ring taxi's who i swear try to force you off the track at every opertunity
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: john_o on November 11, 2009, 04:02:57 pm
bump!
anyone actually get any trackday insurance ??
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on November 11, 2009, 04:18:27 pm
Have you tried Moris.co.uk, John?
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: john_o on November 11, 2009, 07:10:00 pm
 :happy2:
seems a bit steep , thats just for one day!
thought I could get it for a year for that amount....
is this really the going rate?

Quote
Premium:   Â£148.50
Excess:   Â£1920.00
Optional Extensions   Tick if Required
1. Vehicle Recovery: £14.50   
2. Personal Accident:£5.00   
3. Insurance of Your Excess   Â£57.60
   
Policy Premium
Admin Fee:   Â£5.95
Total Due (inc. Tax):   Â£154.45
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on November 11, 2009, 08:51:34 pm
Holy mother of crap, I don't think I paid more than £60.

Consider cancelling your policy and changing to Greenlight - £50 a track day and your excess doubles for the day (£250-£500).
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: RedRobin on November 11, 2009, 09:13:25 pm

Holy mother of crap, I don't think I paid more than £60.

Consider cancelling your policy and changing to Greenlight - £50 a track day and your excess doubles for the day (£250-£500).


....Greenlight don't insure for Nordschleife and I don't think they include Castle Combe either.
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: Janner_Sy on November 11, 2009, 09:24:12 pm
Holy mother of crap, I don't think I paid more than £60.

Consider cancelling your policy and changing to Greenlight - £50 a track day and your excess doubles for the day (£250-£500).


£50 pound a track day. taht is very very good. I shall be changing to them next year then
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: tony_danza on November 11, 2009, 10:37:42 pm

Holy mother of crap, I don't think I paid more than £60.

Consider cancelling your policy and changing to Greenlight - £50 a track day and your excess doubles for the day (£250-£500).


....Greenlight don't insure for Nordschleife and I don't think they include Castle Combe either.

The 'Ring isn't exactly a track day now, is it!?  :signLOL: But yes, you're correct and they along with pretty much every mainstream insurer will exclude it by name. You need a very specialist policy for that.

Combe is excluded by GL, given the fact its like driving through a forest and they've had so many claims over the years - I can kinda understand... but everywhere else is fair game!!
Title: Re: Track Day Insurance....
Post by: john_o on November 12, 2009, 04:13:48 pm
Greenlight will no longer cover my postcode , so Im with Chris Knott just now.
Hopefully they will be able to sort something out  :happy2:
mmmmmm