MK5 Golf GTI

General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Neiltdi on August 22, 2012, 07:58:25 am

Title: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Neiltdi on August 22, 2012, 07:58:25 am
Have any of you heard about it ?
im part of the caddy forum and saw this.
http://www.vwcaddy.com/showthread.php?t=66675
also have a read of this.
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/#more-901
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Nodz on August 22, 2012, 08:40:11 am
It won't be in 6 weeks as it would take time to implement etc.. They was doing something similar to bikes legislation last year iirc and nothing's come of it.

The trouble with this is if they went ahead with it they would kill a massive industry and shoot theirselves in the foot in VAT losses
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: RedRobin on August 22, 2012, 10:11:18 am
^^^^
Neil, you have to be registered on vwcaddy to read your link. But it's all made very clear on the ACE link and looks extremely scary indeed! WTF is the world coming to!!?

I don't know details of the legislation but it's already illegal in some countries to 'modify' cars and the car manufacturers seem to be actively making it increasingly more difficult for tuners to remap ECU's - The later versions of the Golf .:R is a good example AFAIK.

What is particularly nasty is this sentence:

"We have unfortunately now been proved correct with a single item before the EC parliament that will prevent any modifying and will, currently, render already modified cars illegal."

^ I have added the bold type for emphasis. I support the principle that road vehicles should be safe and roadworthy but the MOT ensures that.

I blame the feckin' chavvy boy-racers for potentially spoiling it for everyone else. Many of us can't afford to have tracktoys and trailer them to trackdays for our enjoyment.
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: MAT ED30 on August 22, 2012, 10:57:25 am
I thought the police had mapped cars too so they will also need sorting oh and I know the scoobs and evo they run are rally modified and mapped
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Kalpsn2000 on August 22, 2012, 11:01:30 am
This is extremely bad news for me as I have just recently started modding my first car :fighting:

Will this mean you can't even change the alloys :scared:

I thought the police had mapped cars too so they will also need sorting oh and I know the scoobs and evo they run are rally modified and mapped

They will be excluded:

"Will anyone be exempt from being tested to original standard specification?
 
Once again within the ‘proposal’ This Regulation shall not apply to:
 •vehicles of historic interest
 •vehicles belonging to armed forces, fire services, civil protection, emergency or rescue services
 •vehicles used by agricultural, horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery undertakings with a maximum design speed not exceeding 40 km/h
 •specialised vehicles transporting circus and funfair equipment with a maximum design speed not exceeding 40 km/h and only operating on the territory of the Member State."
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: gigolo456 on August 22, 2012, 11:20:28 am
I have some 'window stickers', will i be affected??  :booty:
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: berg on August 22, 2012, 11:35:24 am
EU law is supreme and we have to bow to any Regulations which are made.

If it is a Directive though it is down to each member state to implement it which can take some time/not seem to happen at all.

For example, our Road Traffic Act does not fully comply with the 6th EU Motor Directive but we have not done anything yet to try and bring it in line...
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: gigolo456 on August 22, 2012, 11:40:48 am
This would be totally unenforcable IMHO, not only would it cripple our economy (even more) overnight, but would stretch an already stretched police force to an unprecedented level!! I certainly won't be losing any sleep over this!!  :P
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: berg on August 22, 2012, 11:47:44 am
This would be totally unenforcable IMHO, not only would it cripple our economy (even more) overnight, but would stretch an already stretched police force to an unprecedented level!! I certainly won't be losing any sleep over this!!  :P


i would agree. however, it is something which we might want to be aware of before starting on a new project in a few years time!
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: sub39h on August 22, 2012, 12:14:49 pm
i'd be keen to hear from one of our resident tuners on this subject. if anyone would be abreast of serious developments it's going to be them
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: h4rdy on August 22, 2012, 12:32:41 pm
I wont stop got to catch me first.

It will just move to stealth mode.
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Andy on August 22, 2012, 12:35:54 pm
what next--stopping motor bikes,boats,lawn mowers,it will never happen
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Neiltdi on August 22, 2012, 12:55:01 pm
your all right , imagine if did happen everyone that does aftermarket parts will go bust , hundreds of thousands of jobs will be lost , im sure the goverment will be affected too.
Its only what i have seen none of us know if it will happen or not , but if it does we will all get a kick in the balls cause what will your aftermarket parts be worth that you have spent thousands on? scrap value

Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: daboy3000 on August 22, 2012, 12:57:34 pm
How will they know what is modified and what is not.  They can't train someone to know what every model of every car looks like, what wheels it came with etc.  Although if they do try and go ahead with it, then the modifying community will need to arrange a demonstration or road block etc.  Now that I would go to, imagine every modified car in the UK blocking the streets of London, now that's a car show!!!
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Neiltdi on August 22, 2012, 12:57:53 pm
This is what  MOD  put on the caddy forum , what do you guys think?

Exactly, time for a referendum and get out of Europe altogether.

The whole engineering cottage industry that made this country great will be finish of in one great swoop.

My take on it based on what I have read will be that lowering, alloy wheels etc will be ok so long as the are "TUV" approved. So I dont think this will effect the majority of vechicles as all the current suspension companies are TUV anyway, along with alloy wheel manufacturers etc. BUT axle flips will be a complete no no

Also, no engine conversions, so bang go all you AAZ & 16vs etc.

My head wants to tell me that it will all work out ok, we would have to just play the government game. But my heart tells me we are being fcuked over once again our own government.

I dont know what is required for us to do just yet, but there is nothing to stop you all firing letters off to your local MEP, if nothing else it will fill all their in boxes, so will at least be aware of it!

Personally I think this needs a mass demonstration of modified cars driven into central London to gridlock the place whilst delivering a 100000 plus petitions to parliment  
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: gobbleplease on August 22, 2012, 12:59:30 pm
Im going to start stock piling standard bits and sell them on the forum when its implemented , ill be rich  :laugh:
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Ducky76 on August 22, 2012, 01:40:22 pm
Ha ha ^ :happy2:
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Ducky76 on August 22, 2012, 01:46:02 pm
All aftermarket parts in Germany have 2 be tuv approved now so wouldn't we be able 2 adopt the same idea with vosa approved parts ?? 
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: MC71 on August 22, 2012, 05:12:03 pm
Im going to start stock piling standard bits and sell them on the forum when its implemented , ill be rich  :laugh:

 :signLOL: :signLOL: was thinking the same thing!! Thank god I kept all my original parts.

What if you've modified a car by making it safer ie adding Xenons, DRL's or BBK and so on. Surly that's a good thing?
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: daboy3000 on August 22, 2012, 05:13:57 pm
I guess if the parts are approved as OEM xenon's would be, then it would be ok
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: sub39h on August 22, 2012, 05:14:59 pm
Im going to start stock piling standard bits and sell them on the forum when its implemented , ill be rich  :laugh:

 :signLOL: :signLOL: was thinking the same thing!! Thank god I kept all my original parts.

What if you've modified a car by making it safer ie adding Xenons, DRL's or BBK and so on. Surly that's a good thing?

thing is, who on earth would be able to tell that your car wasn't meant to have Xenons and you retrofitted them? and who would notice your R32 brake conversion?

this is why the proposals are so absurd
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: PDT on August 22, 2012, 05:15:35 pm
This type of thread comes around every 8-12 months, I remember back when I was soldering chips into ECU's on RS turbos people were telling me that it will all be over soon and modifying cars will be illegal. 16 years on........

Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: daboy3000 on August 22, 2012, 05:16:00 pm
and they can't exactly fine you for painting your badge black
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Hedge on August 22, 2012, 05:17:40 pm
Load of crap. NEXT! :confused:
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Neiltdi on August 22, 2012, 05:28:13 pm
Good news!!
Status Error posted this earlier. This comment is what I saw...

"Guys seriously chill. This guy knows nothing about EU Law. The Regulation says nothing about banning mods. It simply states that member states, ie the UK, have to ensure road
worthiness tests such as MOTs (which we already have) get carried
out.

All that is suggested by the chap at the DfT is his opinion on how that will be interpreted into UK law. I've done law for 5 years and the first thing to note is what is clearly said in the document -

"Roadworthiness testing is a sovereign activity and should therefore be done by the Member States or by entrusted bodies under their supervision(IE NOT THE EU). Member States should remain responsible for roadworthiness testing in any cases even if the national system allows for authorisation of private bodies, including those involved in performing repairs."

EU Law is not going to magically make mods illegal. Its up to our government to decide on what should be legal and what shouldnt be legal. I think what could happen is that MOT tests will start to fail unsafe mods/unenvironmentally friendly mods (which it already does to a certain extent). But at what point can they legitimately argue that me putting uprated brakes, suspension and a weld in cage with harnesses on a car is not making the car "roadworthy" or "safe".

Please dont spread this doc all its creating is confusion and panic imho."

Something that was posted on another forum
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: doylebros on August 22, 2012, 06:19:21 pm
What it will affect is the vehicle resale value and possibly mean you'll not be able to sell or reinsure your vehicle -  if modified even if your willing to pay a premium for any conversion work cover!

 :driver:
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: RedRobin on August 22, 2012, 06:48:56 pm
.
I expect that the specialist modified car insurers such as Greenlight will reinsure your car come time of annual renewal. Or did you mean something else?
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: mad_pete on August 22, 2012, 07:00:05 pm
Don't panic.
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: wigit on August 22, 2012, 07:31:01 pm
its posted on the internet so got to be true   :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Deako on August 23, 2012, 12:06:31 am
What a load of scaremongering sheite. I LOL every time a post like this is created.

"Lets just wipe out a multi billion pound business overnight in tax revenues hey?"

All the report says is what is already done in the UK. Cars must be MOTd. That is all. As long as they are road worthy...............
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: valle on August 23, 2012, 06:27:46 pm
We, here in Slovenia allready have something like this... All things that we put on car, bigger alloys, bumpers,coils,lights, needs TUV appproval.
For example: u got mk5 gti , and u buy , 19'alloys, u need TUV approval from a  firm that produces that alloys. And than u take car to technical inspection , so they can see that the alloys that u have on , are TUV approved for your car. Of course  u have to pay 32€ for 1 part .So, if u have , like me , bumpers,coils,alloys,twintake,down pipe, catback,side mirror blinkers, u do the math, how much i had to pay , so i can have ''modified''car.
And than we have a document of a car, and they writte down any modification that u made on the car , and that is TUV approved.
Also , we can't have , de-cat's on our cars.it's illegal...If police catches u, with any part, with no tuv, they take your license plates + 400€ ....so , it's crapy , yea. ( hope u understand my bad english )
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: MC71 on August 23, 2012, 07:33:39 pm
^^^^
 I could see something along these lines happening in this counrty in the future as it is another way for the government to get even more money without banning or stopping modifications, thus securing those jobs in the industry. Would also crete many new jobs for pen pushes/admin staff and peeps with clip boards who inspect such things.

If I/we can afford the luxury of £500 for a map, £400 for a intake, £1000 on wheels blah blah blah what's an extra (for example) £20 free to have that modification approved? Might even save lives as I'm sure some mods carried out by chav' boy racer are not only aesthetically wrong but dangerous.

If that money raised were to go back into the transport coffers, happy days! (oh, and as long as these laws/regulations were not retrospective)

 :popcornsoda:


Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: sub39h on August 23, 2012, 08:01:50 pm
^^^^
 I could see something along these lines happening in this counrty in the future as it is another way for the government to get even more money without banning or stopping modifications, thus securing those jobs in the industry. Would also crete many new jobs for pen pushes/admin staff and peeps with clip boards who inspect such things.

If I/we can afford the luxury of £500 for a map, £400 for a intake, £1000 on wheels blah blah blah what's an extra (for example) £20 free to have that modification approved? Might even save lives as I'm sure some mods carried out by chav' boy racer are not only aesthetically wrong but dangerous.

If that money raised were to go back into the transport coffers, happy days! (oh, and as long as these laws/regulations were not retrospective)

 :popcornsoda:




might finally see the end of replica wheels, which would be nice imho
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: stealthwolf on August 23, 2012, 08:29:40 pm
an extra (for example) £20 free to have that modification approved?
This is Britain we're talking about. Do you really think the Govt will charge just £20. Reckon it could easily be £100. Imagine then that more insurers start charging every time you ring up for a mod.
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: OllieL on August 23, 2012, 09:29:42 pm
Wow

What about all the pre-TUV marked products?

I have 2 sets of BBS RS that are not TUV approved for use on any car, does that mean that they will be scrap?

Ollie
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: gobbleplease on August 24, 2012, 10:25:27 am

"Lets just wipe out a multi billion pound business overnight in tax revenues



I can remember this w4nky government doing that exact thing years ago ! Ask the miners !
Basically a full industry wiped out in a few years ! So i wouldnt put it past them !
Lets face it that directive sounds great in principal 1/2 the number of road deaths etc etc, someone in a suit will read it and like it !! Not knowing a thing about the industry and effects it will have on peoples lifes, all they will see as robin says chaved up novas, and that will get rid of them ! This modified motors bit only makes up a few lines of an otherwords 23 page directive that i pretty much agree with, so IMO i wouldnt go thinking it wont happen it will  ! Just like the banning of HIDS just like the higher tax band ! Its just a matter of when and how far they go to en force it, i dont think it will be a full ban on all modifications i reccon with in the next 20 years modding wont be what it is today, bit by bit things are going to change !
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: stealthwolf on August 24, 2012, 10:57:44 am
The miners' strike in the 80s happened at a time when I was barely walking/talking/creating havoc, so I don't recall anything back then but I thought the issue with the mines was different. They were Govt-owned and were losing money so the Govt wanted to cut its losses.

The Govt doesn't own the modding industry but does make money from it via taxes, so this is a loss of revenue. The question would be "How much?".
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Tamiyoman on August 24, 2012, 11:25:06 am
What I dont understand is how they can manage it, after all an exhaust (as long as it passes an MOT) is legal no matter what make it is, same with an intake as long as emissions are OK hows that going to be "Policed" and how are they to know what OE wheels are over all the model variants and factory options available.
Re-maps surely as long as emissions are OK would also not be affected, unless they are going to rolling road every car or do a diagnostic check on EVERY car on the road?.

Sound like a load of crap to me!
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Moz on August 24, 2012, 11:28:05 am
If this goes live I'll show my arse in Burtons window.
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: gobbleplease on August 24, 2012, 12:23:04 pm
I was just a nipper then too stealth, the point i was trying to make is that they will not hesitate to basically trash working class lives its the tory way !!!

How they would implement it, simple, your car is illegal if its on the road, it might pass an mot but if you crash it and your car has found to have parts that cause your car to be illegal you wont be insured, this = no money for your crashed possesion ! and a pay out for the others cars in the crash, by you probably ? If someone were to die in the crash then jail ?
If the police pulled you over and found mods that were illegal, crush your car ?
Getting your car through the mot will be easy, it will be the risk after that, that will ultimatly mean that the majority will revert to standard thats just some ways they could do it, there are hundereds of ways to do it though that are going to be simple enough !

Look at the way the uk seems to hate motorists now, all the sheet they have brought put in the last few years thats pi55ed us off !

Like i said though i wouldnt be worried about the near future though i, would imagine it would take years to bring in much like the car tax banding, back then there were rumors of 2k to tax an M3, things never end up as bad as they are made out to be
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: RedRobin on August 24, 2012, 12:35:09 pm

I was just a nipper then too stealth, the point i was trying to make is that they will not hesitate to basically trash working class lives its the tory way !!!


....I think that this is about what authorities in some countries would like to do regarding roadworthiness, not about Tory Party or English politics.

Anyway, the Tories are not so stupid as to trash millions of tax paying worker's lives. It's much more peaceful and sensible to keep the populus comfortably numb.
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: sub39h on August 24, 2012, 12:38:40 pm
I was just a nipper then too stealth, the point i was trying to make is that they will not hesitate to basically trash working class lives its the tory way !!!

i'd like to point out that economic disparity between rich and poor has always been greatest during Labour rule. so quite clearly and demonstrably it would appear to be the Labour way.
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: RedRobin on August 24, 2012, 01:03:47 pm
^^^^
I agree with you, sub39h, but if we start debating politics the thread will run forever and ever and not reach any agreement anyway. And it's off-topic [says he who is guilty of taking many a thread off-topic]
Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: Tamiyoman on August 24, 2012, 07:02:35 pm
I was just a nipper then too stealth, the point i was trying to make is that they will not hesitate to basically trash working class lives its the tory way !!!

How they would implement it, simple, your car is illegal if its on the road, If your car has an MOT, Insurance and Road Fund Licence (TAX) and you have a driving licence then your road legal.

Whether you have mods or not oif your car passes the UK road worthiness test (MOT) then its legal to drive on the road, I can understand some mods like nitrous or methanol injection etc but not an exhaust and intake  :signLOL:


It's all a load of balls

Look at the way the uk seems to hate motorists now, all the sheet they have brought put in the last few years thats pi55ed us off !

Apart from high fuel costs, high insurance, increasing car theft, I dont know what there is to complain about  :grin:, less speed/safety cameras cash cows these days tho  :happy2:


Like i said though i wouldnt be worried about the near future though i, would imagine it would take years to bring in much like the car tax banding, back then there were rumors of 2k to tax an M3, things never end up as bad as they are made out to be

Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: MAT ED30 on August 29, 2012, 11:40:35 am
http://pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26260

Title: Re: Modified cars becoming illegal in 6 Weeks?????
Post by: RedRobin on August 29, 2012, 11:57:12 am

http://pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26260


....This would appear to confirm that it ain't gonna happen for a very long time if indeed it does happen.

The EU process is the same process that the DRL subject went through - Endless consultation and expensive studies and reports and many years of it. With any luck such horrific proposals won't become set in stone until after I retire from driving. However, as already said, if they are addressing roadworthiness and not retrospective, then that's a good thing IMO.