MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: podgemasterson on September 03, 2012, 09:39:47 am
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Hey guys,
New member here.
I'm buying a new cat-back system for my gti and had decided to go with the Milltek non res cat back.
But i'm just curious, Is there any others that people would reccomend?
How about scorpion exhausts?
Any input appreciated,
Thanks :happy2:
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I think the popular alternatives are blueflame and BCS
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Thanks very much,
I'm just looking for a deeper smoother sound tbh and I'm very new to this sorry!
I'm in ireland here so would have to order online, any companies that carry those brands that you could recommend?
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.
Milltek are well known for a slightly more sophisticated sound.
My second choice would be, without hesitation, BCS and not Blueflame.
Sound is very subjective and so depends what you personally prefer, other than established performance benefits.
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Ah right ok,
Maybe I would be best just getting the milltek as planned then,
Especially as I can buy that in Dublin and have it fitted there too.
Cheers guys
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Many previous Milltek owners have sold the Milltek system and bought a BCS system, it's one of the reasons I went for a BCS system, forum search will show you lots of people doing this.
I saw the BCS system side by side with a Milltek and the BCS looks much better quality and is a little cheaper too, BCS will ship to you and you can get it fitted at any decent garage.
There are many happy milltek owners out there but BCS is growing a very good reputation very quickly :happy2:
You pay your money you take your choice :wink:
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Hi!
Try Keith from alloywheels if you're in Dublin. He has great prices!
Paul
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Cant find anywhere that sells bcs online?
Ya it would be keith I would be buying from if I'm getting the milltek thanks :smiley:
Think I will just get milltek now for handiness sake, they get decent reviews anyway and tbh I probably won't notice a difference!
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Cant find anywhere that sells bcs online?
Ya it would be keith I would be buying from if I'm getting the milltek thanks :smiley:
Think I will just get milltek now for handiness sake, they get decent reviews anyway and tbh I probably won't notice a difference!
http://www.bcsautomotive.co.uk/contact.php there you go online and contact details, think Like for Like BCS are approx £150-200 cheaper and they have lots of different options available :happy2:
be a Wolf not a sheep :signLOL:
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My advise is see / hear both and make up your mind!
I have milltek and it sounds great! Quiet when taking it easy and noise when steppend on it!
There is probably a justificiation for this price difference between those 2 brands.
Paul
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Personally i really think milltek had lost their mojo up untill now but they seem to have upped their game and some of the stuff they are turning out now looks superb. I was considering a bcs but i think i'm going to go back to a milly. Tbh i could do with a listen at a bcs. All i know is wen a milltek is on full beans they sound :evilgrin:
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Thanks for the input guys :happy2:
Made my mind up, just going to get the milltek.
One reason being i'd like to buy it in ireland to help support our "down the toilet" economy at the moment lol!
Cant wait to get it now, :party:
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you cannot also discount the APR options.
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you cannot also discount the APR options.
....Certainly :happy2:
But they do sound much more brittle, which isn't so great on a 4-pot IMO. It depends what sounds you like best.
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I will never buy a Milltek after the amount of them that crack on the DP flange, i.e all of them!
I had one and compared to my new BCS its shocking that they charge more for it.
Make sure you keep your receipt and also make sure that where you get it fitted that Milltek will honour your warranty for when the flange cracks and brackets fall off.
I can say this as I owned one before I get lambasted.
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I will never buy a Milltek after the amount of them that crack on the DP flange, i.e all of them!
....7 years of Milltek and never had a crack on the DP.
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I will never buy a Milltek after the amount of them that crack on the DP flange, i.e all of them!
....7 years of Milltek and never had a crack on the DP.
Have you took it off and checked it Robin?
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Its on the flange they go. You won't see it until you remove it.
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I will never buy a Milltek after the amount of them that crack on the DP flange, i.e all of them!
....7 years of Milltek and never had a crack on the DP.
Have you took it off and checked it Robin?
....Not taken off but the exhaust is checked everytime she's up on a ramp and performance is regularly checked at JKM.
I'm up at Milltek in the not too distant future so I'll ask them to check further.
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BCS all the way .... Look better (soggy nappy syndrome)-- as in milltek .. and on sound well.... :P
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Alex had to weld mine as it had completely cracked across the face.
After he had done it, it would never have done it again.
Its the way they just 'tag' the mounting flange on.
It is supposed to be a Premium product.
Robin, not having a go at Milltek as I have nothing to gain or lose. Just trying to help people make the right decision from an Engineers point of view.
I say it as it is as you do, not trying to wind you up and I am not saying you are suggesting such, just covering my ass!
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To whet the appetite so to speak:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fh4rdy%2FH4rdys_YoYo_Rosso_Nero_build_thread%2F20120831_140848.jpg&hash=55f53785e1d80097ee879e98cc2430c9a0e8410e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fh4rdy%2FH4rdys_YoYo_Rosso_Nero_build_thread%2F20120831_140924.jpg&hash=673c588c3c7b0caec26cc087115d7007b18a7b52)
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Robin, not having a go at Milltek as I have nothing to gain or lose. Just trying to help people make the right decision from an Engineers point of view.
I say it as it is as you do, not trying to wind you up and I am not saying you are suggesting such, just covering my ass!
....No problem - I realise you are only reporting your experiences, as I am also doing. Both of us doing so for the benefit of others to make up their own minds. :happy2:
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Not too long before my BCS Powervalve prestige or Sport trip ooop North. Gonna try and go on a Saturday next month when Liverpool are at home.
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Your not the only one with a cracked flange Justin...two of my mate are in the same position,one in a mk5 Gti & the other is a 08 s3..all with the same cracked flange
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Looking at the way the BCS is made I can't see it happening but only time will tell.
The brackets on the BCS appear to be superior too.
The customer service is second to non as well.
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^^^
I will be going the BCS route once I can source a R32 rear bumper.
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There is probably a justification for this price difference between those 2 brands.
Paul
Yes there is, BCS are not trading on a name/reputation gained years ago before other companies started offering comparable better products, they trade only on word of mouth from happy customers, I am very happy with my BCS (as are the legions of others going the same route). :happy2:
A quick look on the many forums will show that lots of Millteks have suffered failures.
I have heard the milltek system on a stage 1 GTI and it sounded good, but not as good as the Powervalve BCS system (something that Milltek dont offer or are they likely to copy it in the future)
RR is lucky as I believe his is a custom designed system, not std, might explain the quality/longevity.
Buying a Milltek is only going to contribute a few hundred quid at best to your economy, buy the BCS and donate the £150-200 you will save compared to a Milltek to the irish government, this way they get the full £200 instead of only the Tax on it :wink:
:popcornsoda:
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If you are up at Milltek Robin ask them how Stainless Steel manages to rust quite so convincingly?
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If you are up at Milltek Robin ask them how Stainless Steel manages to rust quite so convincingly?
I was surprised at the Milltek that BCS had there that was a tad rusty :surprised:
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If you are up at Milltek Robin ask them how Stainless Steel manages to rust quite so convincingly?
It comes from top steel works in China, it good we print to a certificate to say it meets British standards. You just send us the art work we print certificate.
Yours faithfully
Mr Hang dong Chow
:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
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If you are up at Milltek Robin ask them how Stainless Steel manages to rust quite so convincingly?
It comes from top steel works in China, it good we print to a certificate to say it meets British standards. You just send us the art work we print certificate.
Yours faithfully
Mr Hang dong Chow
:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
What makes me laugh is the tags on the system saying "Made in UK", since when is China in UK? :grin: :grin: :grin:
Or does it mean "Unpacked and sold in UK"
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BCS is the way forward... :happy2:
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What makes me laugh is the tags on the system saying "Made in UK", since when is China in UK? :grin: :grin: :grin:
Or does it mean "Unpacked and sold in UK"
On what grounds do you know they aren't manufactured in the UK?
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If you are up at Milltek Robin ask them how Stainless Steel manages to rust quite so convincingly?
You try welding tin foil..... It's quite an art I tell thee!!!
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What makes me laugh is the tags on the system saying "Made in UK", since when is China in UK? :grin: :grin: :grin:
Or does it mean "Unpacked and sold in UK"
On what grounds do you know they aren't manufactured in the UK?
....Exactly! :happy2:
No-one is claiming that Milltek have never had any failures but the failures which they have had have been blown out of all proportion and false rumours abound.
Very importantly, Milltek care deeply about their products and give excellent aftersales service.
My satisfaction and support for Milltek over a number of years is not based on being a hater of rival exhaust producers. BCS appears to be a very good alternative, which is what the OP asked for.
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Hi guys,
Rang nige from bcs earlier and had a chat with him.
His sports system sounds very good and well priced.
My question is how loud is it in relation to a cat non res milltek?
And can anyone post some sound clips as i can find any?
Thanks again
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I went to the ring in a golf R32 with a Milltek back in June, droned like hell. :sick: - that doesn't seem to match the slogan of "exhausts to blow your mind, not your ears". Quite the opposite in my experience.
Milltek exhausts on the Civic Type R forum have a reputation for droning also :chicken:
Just seems to me you are paying for a brand name rather than a special product.
My opinion is that they advertise their product well which is why they seem to be so popular, my money would be on the small player that (from the pictures I've seen) produce great quality exhausts and trying to make a name for themselves. BCS :happy2:
I haven't tried any exhausts on this car yet (had plenty in the past) and am definitely not a fanboy of any particular brand.
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How many units do you reckon milltek sell a year? Put that into perspective of many have failed and i would harbour at a guess that it would be a very small percentage. We all love bigging up the negatives about certain companies when things go wrong with the odd item. I'd love to see how a bcs system looks in 2-3 years. Not knocking them at all but i think the majority of stainless that comes into the country nowadays is sh*te anyways. Anyway i haven't seen a too bad a looking milltek. Had one on mine that was handed down to me that had been on a car 2-3 years, wasn't so bad, a bit of brick acid over it before fitting and it cleaned up nicely. :smiley:
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How many units do you reckon milltek sell a year? Put that into perspective of many have failed and i would harbour at a guess that it would be a very small percentage. We all love bigging up the negatives about certain companies when things go wrong with the odd item. I'd love to see how a bcs system looks in 2-3 years. Not knocking them at all but i think the majority of stainless that comes into the country nowadays is sh*te anyways. Anyway i haven't seen a too bad a looking milltek. Had one on mine that was handed down to me that had been on a car 2-3 years, wasn't so bad, a bit of brick acid over it before fitting and it cleaned up nicely. :smiley:
I have seen TfsiMikes BCS after six months on the car and it looks like new.
The Milltek on the other hand :popcornsoda:
IMHO I would say the BCS is better made, I believe I have the authority to say that.
OK so I have also 'heard' that the Milltek DP is made in China. Nothing wrong with stuff made in China as long as its as good as we can make it as they are selling it for premium money.
Yes and surface rust on SS denotes a high content of iron in the mix. I.e cheap.
Again it is OK to sell stuff with a 'made in uk' badge even if made in china as I think as long as it is designed, checked, packed, finished etc etc no problem. Percentages I believe.
This had turned into a Milltek bash, wrongly. Probably my fault, apologies.
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What makes me laugh is the tags on the system saying "Made in UK", since when is China in UK? :grin: :grin: :grin:
Or does it mean "Unpacked and sold in UK"
On what grounds do you know they aren't manufactured in the UK?
On what grounds do we know that they are not made in China?.
Joking aside, simply type in Google "Milltek DP cracked" "Milltek exhaust failure" "Milltek made in China" and come to your own conclusions!.
:happy2:
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How many units do you reckon milltek sell a year? Put that into perspective of many have failed and i would harbour at a guess that it would be a very small percentage. We all love bigging up the negatives about certain companies when things go wrong with the odd item. I'd love to see how a bcs system looks in 2-3 years. Not knocking them at all but i think the majority of stainless that comes into the country nowadays is sh*te anyways. Anyway i haven't seen a too bad a looking milltek. Had one on mine that was handed down to me that had been on a car 2-3 years, wasn't so bad, a bit of brick acid over it before fitting and it cleaned up nicely. :smiley:
I have seen TfsiMikes BCS after six months on the car and it looks like new.
The Milltek on the other hand :popcornsoda:
IMHO I would say the BCS is better made, I believe I have the authority to say that.
OK so I have also 'heard' that the Milltek DP is made in China. Nothing wrong with stuff made in China as long as its as good as we can make it as they are selling it for premium money.
Yes and surface rust on SS denotes a high content of iron in the mix. I.e cheap.
Again it is OK to sell stuff with a 'made in uk' badge even if made in china as I think as long as it is designed, checked, packed, finished etc etc no problem. Percentages I believe.
This had turned into a Milltek bash, wrongly. Probably my fault, apologies.
MY BCS system has been on nearly 4 months and it still looks new.
Having seen both Milltek and BCS Systems up close I believe I am entitled to my own opinion on which "I CAN SEE" looks better quality :happy2:
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What makes me laugh is the tags on the system saying "Made in UK", since when is China in UK? :grin: :grin: :grin:
Or does it mean "Unpacked and sold in UK"
On what grounds do you know they aren't manufactured in the UK?
On what grounds do we know that they are not made in China?.
Joking aside, simply type in Google "Milltek DP cracked" "Milltek exhaust failure" "Milltek made in China" and come to your own conclusions!.
:happy2:
By the fact I have seen them physically making them in there own factory which is strangely no where near China.
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Well, i supose while they do come with a lifetime warranty whilst being on your car i don't really think theres much of a problem.
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So they roll the steel in the factory into a pipe? Or does the pipe come shipped in from somewhere else,Ie not the uk so is the steel uk steel ?
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probably not, is bcs' steel from the uk?
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What makes me laugh is the tags on the system saying "Made in UK", since when is China in UK? :grin: :grin: :grin:
Or does it mean "Unpacked and sold in UK"
On what grounds do you know they aren't manufactured in the UK?
On what grounds do we know that they are not made in China?.
Joking aside, simply type in Google "Milltek DP cracked" "Milltek exhaust failure" "Milltek made in China" and come to your own conclusions!.
:happy2:
By the fact I have seen them physically making them in there own factory which is strangely no where near China.
Not sure that makes me feel any better. Nothing wrong with stuff from China.
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Well, i supose while they do come with a lifetime warranty whilst being on your car i don't really think theres much of a problem.
Just the hassle......
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By the fact I have seen them physically making them in there own factory which is strangely no where near China.
[/quote]
ETTO mate :happy2:, but I have seen both up close and read enough on various forums to form my own opinion, as it seems others on here have done :smiley:
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By the fact I have seen them physically making them in there own factory which is strangely no where near China.
ETTO mate :happy2:, but I have seen both up close and read enough on various forums to form my own opinion, as it seems others on here have done :smiley:
....Like SteveP, I have also witnessed them being made at Milltek's factory.... near Derby.... in the UK.
You are of course entitled to your opinions based on experience etc and to share your views but basing it on what you have read on the internet and in forums is frankly unreliable, as your China post well illustrates.
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http://www.f-town-streetmachines.com/h_produkte_vw1.html
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f-town-streetmachines.com%2FVolkswagen%2FGolf%25205%2520GTI%2520E30-Pirelli%2FIMGP1320.JPG&hash=d9a5376449ba247fc1090b4231017ef054f92e33)
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who cares where the steel comes from any way i for one wont buy milltek just down to i dont like the design of the product and you hear to many bad stories but they do fix things when they break (but they should not crack in the first place) :drinking:
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probably not, is bcs' steel from the uk?
Ill have a look there is some writing on the SS Stock which they make it from and as its not on the car yet.
It is so nice I would quite happily frame it on the wall!!!
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By the fact I have seen them physically making them in there own factory which is strangely no where near China.
ETTO mate :happy2:, but I have seen both up close and read enough on various forums to form my own opinion, as it seems others on here have done :smiley:
....Like SteveP, I have also witnessed them being made at Milltek's factory.... near Derby.... in the UK.
You are of course entitled to your opinions based on experience etc and to share your views but basing it on what you have read on the internet and in forums is frankly unreliable, as your China post well illustrates.
I can't see thousands being wrong........... like I said google is your friend
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By the fact I have seen them physically making them in there own factory which is strangely no where near China.
ETTO mate :happy2:, but I have seen both up close and read enough on various forums to form my own opinion, as it seems others on here have done :smiley:
....Like SteveP, I have also witnessed them being made at Milltek's factory.... near Derby.... in the UK.
You are of course entitled to your opinions based on experience etc and to share your views but basing it on what you have read on the internet and in forums is frankly unreliable, as your China post well illustrates.
I can't see thousands being wrong........... like I said google is your friend
....Well I expect that if you continue posting misinformation (albeit I respect that it's well intentioned) on the internet via car forums such as this one, then it'll soon be millions not thousands who can't be wrong.
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Sorry bout all the questions,
but which will be louder, the milltek non res or the bcs?
I just cant find any clips for the bcs at the moment and I'm very eager to see some obviously...
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Sorry bout all the questions,
but which will be louder, the milltek non res or the bcs?
I just cant find any clips for the bcs at the moment and I'm very eager to see some obviously...
....That's a tricky one to answer but probably the Non-Res Milltek will be fractionally louder but they'll be fairly equal under full throttle.
Resonated Milltek isn't much louder than stock.
Which sounds 'better' is totally subjective and down to personal taste/preference.
If you prefer something sounding more raucous, consider the APR.
Personally I love my Milltek but think that the BCS is a very worthy contender and alternative.
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Thanks for that reply redrobin,
Its such a hard decision to make, especially when im a complete noob!
But after talking to nige on the phone for about twenty minutes today, I could just hear the passion and excitement in his voice when he was talking about his gear, as cheesy as that sounds, so I think thats swayed it for me. There both working out around the same price anyway so thats not the issue either.
Either way my girlfriend is going to fcuking kill me when she finds out so thats usually an indicator that im doing the right thing ha! :signLOL:
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Thanks for that reply redrobin,
Its such a hard decision to make, especially when im a complete noob!
But after talking to nige on the phone for about twenty minutes today, I could just hear the passion and excitement in his voice when he was talking about his gear, as cheesy as that sounds, so I think thats swayed it for me. There both working out around the same price anyway so thats not the issue either.
....It's always a good thing to follow your heart and the factor of the people you deal with is extremely important. In my case with Milltek, I've enjoyed a friendship with Phil Millington (Mr Milltek) for 7 years and know his genuine passion.
I'm sure you won't go wrong with BCS and Nige :happy2:
Either way my girlfriend is going to fcuking kill me when she finds out so thats usually an indicator that im doing the right thing ha! :signLOL:
....A girlie I know who is a hardcore Mini (original version) enthusiast and also a mechanic (yes, and I'm afraid that she's quite pretty too) told me about her new boyfriend and she complained bitterly to him when he bought her something girlie for her birthday. So at christmas he (very wisely!) asked her what she would like and she said, not expecting him to buy her one, a Milltek exhaust for her Mini. He bought her one and she was over the moon. Lucky sod, she's a babe.
Enjoy your new exhaust - It's an important driving aid!
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http://www.f-town-streetmachines.com/h_produkte_vw1.html
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f-town-streetmachines.com%2FVolkswagen%2FGolf%25205%2520GTI%2520E30-Pirelli%2FIMGP1320.JPG&hash=d9a5376449ba247fc1090b4231017ef054f92e33)
That looks like a right dogs dinner.... :stupid:
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Yes he seemed so interested himself and said he drives a gti so thats sold me i think! :smiley:
Wow, that guy totally hit the jackpot... lucky git lol!
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http://www.f-town-streetmachines.com/h_produkte_vw1.html
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f-town-streetmachines.com%2FVolkswagen%2FGolf%25205%2520GTI%2520E30-Pirelli%2FIMGP1320.JPG&hash=d9a5376449ba247fc1090b4231017ef054f92e33)
That looks like a right dogs dinner.... :stupid:
....My thoughts exactly.
Why as many as 4 silencer boxes? Such a tortuous route through the back boxes. :confused:
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Listen to it and you'll know why. No, don't get fooled by the number of silencers and
think it's quiet.
These boys surely know about exhaust systems. They also do a road legal downpipe.
Most DPs unfortunately aren't.
Raeder Motorsport also uses F-Town on their VLN race cars.
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Thanks for that reply redrobin,
Its such a hard decision to make, especially when im a complete noob!
But after talking to nige on the phone for about twenty minutes today, I could just hear the passion and excitement in his voice when he was talking about his gear, as cheesy as that sounds, so I think thats swayed it for me. There both working out around the same price anyway so thats not the issue either.
Either way my girlfriend is going to fcuking kill me when she finds out so thats usually an indicator that im doing the right thing ha! :signLOL:
It is a tough decision to make, and maybe some of my posts about the Milltek touched a nerve with some folk :surprised:, but I feel that Milltek get recommended on here for the name and the fact it was pretty much the only option available for years, now there are other systems available (and in my opinion better options/quality systems) that should be seriously considered before settling for a choosing a Milltek :grin:
The options available (which Milltek did not offer), the sound and look of the BCS system, the passion from both Nige and Dave and the issues I read about Milltek's on this forum is what swung it for me.
Based on what you said about price I guess your going for the Powervalve system?, as when I was pricing them up 6 months back the BCS prestige system (likened to Milltek resonated) or BCS Sport (likened to Milltek Non res) were cheaper by around £200, the BCS Powervalve system is priced same as res Milltek I think but its much more exhaust for the money :wink:.
I am sure when your GF realises that what you spent only covers a few pairs of Jimmy Choo's and the exhaust will last much longer and get used a hell of a lot more :signLOL: :signLOL:
Good luck with whatever you decide :happy2:
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Thanks for that reply redrobin,
Its such a hard decision to make, especially when im a complete noob!
But after talking to nige on the phone for about twenty minutes today, I could just hear the passion and excitement in his voice when he was talking about his gear, as cheesy as that sounds, so I think thats swayed it for me. There both working out around the same price anyway so thats not the issue either.
Either way my girlfriend is going to fcuking kill me when she finds out so thats usually an indicator that im doing the right thing ha! :signLOL:
It is a tough decision to make, and maybe some of my posts about the Milltek touched a nerve with some folk :surprised:, but I feel that Milltek get recommended on here for the name and the fact it was pretty much the only option available for years, now there are other systems available (and in my opinion better options/quality systems) that should be seriously considered before settling for a choosing a Milltek :grin:
The options available (which Milltek did not offer), the sound and look of the BCS system, the passion from both Nige and Dave and the issues I read about Milltek's on this forum is what swung it for me.
Based on what you said about price I guess your going for the Powervalve system?, as when I was pricing them up 6 months back the BCS prestige system (likened to Milltek resonated) or BCS Sport (likened to Milltek Non res) were cheaper by around £200, the BCS Powervalve system is priced same as res Milltek I think but its much more exhaust for the money :wink:.
I am sure when your GF realises that what you spent only covers a few pairs of Jimmy Choo's and the exhaust will last much longer and get used a hell of a lot more :signLOL: :signLOL:
Good luck with whatever you decide :happy2:
Well tbh the BCS is working out dearer than the milltek for me, Its only the cat back I can afford at the moment unfortunately so is that why its not cheaper as I'm not buying a full system?
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Probably yes as the diff in price between a full system is like I said above.
If you plan on going Full system you might be better to wait until you can do both at same time (took me a few months to get money together).
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Probably yes as the diff in price between a full system is like I said above.
If you plan on going Full system you might be better to wait until you can do both at same time (took me a few months to get money together).
Ah I see then. Well theres very little in the price between the two, about 80 euro so that wouldnt put me off anyway.
Unfortunately I just couldnt free up enough spare cash anytime soon for the full system :sad1:
I'll have to go the seperate bits route!
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i have been happy with my Pipewerx tbe.
I have not had experience of the other brands so cant comment but Mark @ PDT confirmed it was definately louder than a Milltek
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I keep going to post in this thread and then stopping myself. But I can't go on reading all this BS anymore!! :fighting:
Milltek are a well established manufacturer and have been making systems longer than most of the other manufacturers mentioned here, so how is it fair to compare reliability issues with a company that has only been around for five minutes (in it's latest form anyway)?
And all this talk about 'passion' and 'excitement' also needs to be put into perspective. A business owner/shareholder who is looking to grow a business and expand will be happy to talk the legs of a hind Donkey to anyone that will listed to them. Now I'm not knocking that being in that very position myself, but then how can that individual be compared to the someone in the same industry that is selling their product in big numbers worldwide? No doubting the passion or commitment from either side but dealing with a business owner compared with an employee will also be a very different experience. We've all discussed this very logic when we talk about VW main dealers who on the whole are useless and couldn't give two hoots, compared to the independents such as JKM, Awesome, TT Shop etc.
It also makes me very suspicious when anyone is so vocal about a product in such a way that it makes them look very naive and almost as though they'd been asked to beat a drum on someone else's behalf!! :confused:
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I keep going to post in this thread and then stopping myself. But I can't go on reading all this BS anymore!! :fighting:
Milltek are a well established manufacturer and have been making systems longer than most of the other manufacturers mentioned here, so how is it fair to compare reliability issues with a company that has only been around for five minutes (in it's latest form anyway)?
And all this talk about 'passion' and 'excitement' also needs to be put into perspective. A business owner/shareholder who is looking to grow a business and expand will be happy to talk the legs of a hind Donkey to anyone that will listed to them. Now I'm not knocking that being in that very position myself, but then how can that individual be compared to the someone in the same industry that is selling their product in big numbers worldwide? No doubting the passion or commitment from either side but dealing with a business owner compared with an employee will also be a very different experience. We've all discussed this very logic when we talk about VW main dealers who on the whole are useless and couldn't give two hoots, compared to the independents such as JKM, Awesome, TT Shop etc.
It also makes me very suspicious when anyone is so vocal about a product in such a way that it makes them look very naive and almost as though they'd been asked to beat a drum on someone else's behalf!! :confused:
:congrats:
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I keep going to post in this thread and then stopping myself. But I can't go on reading all this BS anymore!! :fighting:
Milltek are a well established manufacturer and have been making systems longer than most of the other manufacturers mentioned here, so how is it fair to compare reliability issues with a company that has only been around for five minutes (in it's latest form anyway)?
And all this talk about 'passion' and 'excitement' also needs to be put into perspective. A business owner/shareholder who is looking to grow a business and expand will be happy to talk the legs of a hind Donkey to anyone that will listed to them. Now I'm not knocking that being in that very position myself, but then how can that individual be compared to the someone in the same industry that is selling their product in big numbers worldwide? No doubting the passion or commitment from either side but dealing with a business owner compared with an employee will also be a very different experience. We've all discussed this very logic when we talk about VW main dealers who on the whole are useless and couldn't give two hoots, compared to the independents such as JKM, Awesome, TT Shop etc.
It also makes me very suspicious when anyone is so vocal about a product in such a way that it makes them look very naive and almost as though they'd been asked to beat a drum on someone else's behalf!! :confused:
Yes i agree 100% with everything you have said. :happy2:
Mr Miles Tamiyoman does nothing but bleat on about how he was the first to get this amazing sun shines out of the ceramic tips exhaust with valve thingy.
In fact i have already posted up in a thread, 18 separate posts ( maybe more ) were he has been telling this forum about the amazing BCS zorst. :indifferent: At the same time we had to request BCS to stop breaking the advertising rules as they decided to ignore them completely.
My suspicious mind would tell me Nigel from BCS gave him some money off to ram it down our throats but that is not fair i don't know this for certain, you can make your own minds up. :wink:
And one final thing for Miles. how come your signature says " Every Factory Option fitted except Bluetooth and folding mirrors " surely this means you dont have every factory option. :laugh:
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Im sure Tamiyoman doesnt need me to talk on his behalf, but I think it quite unfair to make derogatory comments about Forum members (Sammy to 1 side of course, lol)! Sure, he sung BCS's praises, just like I have, but under no duress whatsoever! Without mentioning names (unlike you have above), there are numerous repeated 'praise singing' on this Forum bout Products x, y, and z, its part and parcel of spreading the word so to speak and should not in any way warrant lambasting!! People can only make informed choices if they are given hard facts, and if that means that the 'big boys' are brought down a peg or two, then i'm all for it!! If at the same time, the smaller British companies are given a few thumbs Up (after only positive comments), the im very much for that too!
This whole thread is so bloody subjective, and thanks to fantastic car forums such as this, we all can and should be allowed to have our say without any comeback!! :-D
Here endeth the lesson!
Andrew
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I keep going to post in this thread and then stopping myself. But I can't go on reading all this BS anymore!! :fighting:
Milltek are a well established manufacturer and have been making systems longer than most of the other manufacturers mentioned here, so how is it fair to compare reliability issues with a company that has only been around for five minutes (in it's latest form anyway)?
I never compared reliability issues between BCS and Milltek, Merely that lots of Millteks have cracked and thus far my BCS has not (if it does I will gladly tell folk it has done, I have nowt to hide!)
And all this talk about 'passion' and 'excitement' also needs to be put into perspective. A business owner/shareholder who is looking to grow a business and expand will be happy to talk the legs of a hind Donkey to anyone that will listed to them. Now I'm not knocking that being in that very position myself, but then how can that individual be compared to the someone in the same industry that is selling their product in big numbers worldwide? No doubting the passion or commitment from either side but dealing with a business owner compared with an employee will also be a very different experience. We've all discussed this very logic when we talk about VW main dealers who on the whole are useless and couldn't give two hoots, compared to the independents such as JKM, Awesome, TT Shop etc.
Do not disagree with anything said there, will only add that dealing with an owner you feel "more a part of it" rather than a profit margin (I also said this before)
It also makes me very suspicious when anyone is so vocal about a product in such a way that it makes them look very naive and almost as though they'd been asked to beat a drum on someone else's behalf!! :confused:
I am vocal about it as I (MY OPINION) believe it's a better product than the Milltek, heard both, seen both, bought BCS, simple really, not one bit of naivety just based on what I see, as for being asked to "Beat someone else's drum" that's a load of crap, you must think I am on commission from BCS or something :stupid: (Wish I was as they are gonna sell lots of them!) :happy2:
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Yes i agree 100% with everything you have said. :happy2:
Now that surprises me :grin:
Mr Miles Tamiyoman does nothing but bleat on about how he was the first to get this amazing sun shines out of the ceramic tips exhaust with valve thingy.
It's Myles, not Mr Miles and yes I do mention how I have the Powervalve system and yes it was the first one :happy2: (just happy to have it), there have been lots get them since me and probably lots more to come, I was also the first to get the Volant intake too, in case you bring that up in a sarcastic reply!.
P.S. It has not got ceramic tips your confusing me with another member!,
In fact i have already posted up in a thread, 18 separate posts ( maybe more ) were he has been telling this forum about the amazing BCS zorst. :indifferent:
Yup and probably half a dozen of your sarcastic replies to them :notworthy:
At the same time we had to request BCS to stop breaking the advertising rules as they decided to ignore them completely.
Not sure what BCS breaking forum rules has to do with me?, I can answer that, absolutely nothing!!
My suspicious mind would tell me Nigel from BCS gave him some money off to ram it down our throats but that is not fair i don't know this for certain, you can make your own minds up. :wink:
Your suspicious mind clearly needs a night off duty :surprised:, your way off the mark there (AGAIN), I paid the full price (and was very happy to pay it) and I have a receipt from BCS showing I paid the full price for the system, not that it has got ANYTHING to do with yourself, I am happy to post up the invoice for anyone to see (Obviously I would remove part of my address)
And one final thing for Miles. how come your signature says " Every Factory Option fitted except Bluetooth and folding mirrors " surely this means you dont have every factory option. :laugh:
Rather than listing all options, it's easier to say it has all options except those 2, quite simple really :stupid:, see how I don't get as annoyed/angry/sarcastic as you do TC when you suggest that I am taking kickbacks :grin:
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I keep going to post in this thread and then stopping myself. But I can't go on reading all this BS anymore!! :fighting:
Milltek are a well established manufacturer and have been making systems longer than most of the other manufacturers mentioned here, so how is it fair to compare reliability issues with a company that has only been around for five minutes (in it's latest form anyway)?
I never compared reliability issues between BCS and Milltek, Merely that lots of Millteks have cracked and thus far my BCS has not (if it does I will gladly tell folk it has done, I have nowt to hide!)
And all this talk about 'passion' and 'excitement' also needs to be put into perspective. A business owner/shareholder who is looking to grow a business and expand will be happy to talk the legs of a hind Donkey to anyone that will listed to them. Now I'm not knocking that being in that very position myself, but then how can that individual be compared to the someone in the same industry that is selling their product in big numbers worldwide? No doubting the passion or commitment from either side but dealing with a business owner compared with an employee will also be a very different experience. We've all discussed this very logic when we talk about VW main dealers who on the whole are useless and couldn't give two hoots, compared to the independents such as JKM, Awesome, TT Shop etc.
Do not disagree with anything said there, will only add that dealing with an owner you feel "more a part of it" rather than a profit margin (I also said this before)
It also makes me very suspicious when anyone is so vocal about a product in such a way that it makes them look very naive and almost as though they'd been asked to beat a drum on someone else's behalf!! :confused:
I am vocal about it as I (MY OPINION) believe it's a better product than the Milltek, heard both, seen both, bought BCS, simple really, not one bit of naivety just based on what I see, as for being asked to "Beat someone else's drum" that's a load of crap, you must think I am on commission from BCS or something :stupid: (Wish I was as they are gonna sell lots of them!) :happy2:
I don't recall mentioning either you are BCS in my post............ :confused:
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:popcornsoda:
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Im sure Tamiyoman doesnt need me to talk on his behalf, but I think it quite unfair to make derogatory comments about Forum members (Sammy to 1 side of course, lol)! TC has done this before with me, water off a ducks back
Sure, he sung BCS's praises, just like I have, but under no duress whatsoever! Agreed!
Without mentioning names (unlike you have above), there are numerous repeated 'praise singing' on this Forum bout Products x, y, and z, its part and parcel of spreading the word so to speak and should not in any way warrant lambasting!!
Milltek, ITG/Forge, Revo and VWR/APR, there you go!
People can only make informed choices if they are given hard facts, and if that means that the 'big boys' are brought down a peg or two, then i'm all for it!!
This is exactly the reasons I sing their praises, it's not all abouut Milltek and the others, smaller tuners make good products too (some very good ones)
If at the same time, the smaller British companies are given a few thumbs Up (after only positive comments), the im very much for that too!
This whole thread is so bloody subjective, and thanks to fantastic car forums such as this, we all can and should be allowed to have our say without any comeback!! :-D
Here endeth the lesson!
Andrew
That's what i thought too, but clearly not, I best go speak to BCS about my commission rates :signLOL:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.klm.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2FTime-out.jpg&hash=3f529c1ca6acb4b9181bbfc7b2d8cac80554b538)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.klm.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2FTime-out.jpg&hash=3f529c1ca6acb4b9181bbfc7b2d8cac80554b538)
Quality post! :happy2:
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^^^
Yes was getting a bit heated
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It wasn't getting heated. :innocent: Just some perspective was needed. It is very easy on the internet for 1 or 2 people to take over threads and convince the world what they have is the best, usually because they need to reaffirm there own choices. Robin has done this in the past with Milltek and we had a bust up or two as well, over the same. In fact i chose one of Nigel's exhaust last time because Robin would always take over zorst threads with his Milltek pics.
This is an open forum for it's members to discuss products, Milltek and BSC are not allowed to take part unless it is with technical help but it is very easy for these companies to get there fanboys to advertise for them and as such all perspective gets lost.
If i was buying a zorst for a GTI again, i would probably look at BCS first, but postings in this thread and on here in general lately have me thinking to much fanboy and not enough factboy is going on.
All in my opinion of course.
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It wasn't getting heated. :innocent: Just some perspective was needed.
Heated?, no, debating strongly, possibly, That makes sense
It is very easy on the internet for 1 or 2 people to take over threads and convince the world what they have is the best, usually because they need to reaffirm there own choices.
I don't need to re-affirm my choice, as mentioned I would just like others to choose what they want based on knowledge of all products available rather than opt out and plump for a Milltek "as everyone has one", smaller tuners are getting less and less common as the larger companies buy out the smaller tuners, gain exclusive rights to products or buy other's products to simply re-badge, hike the price and profit on someone else's work and it's us who pay for the priveledge :stupid:, I am keen to support the smaller "Less well known" companies as it is these who generally improve products and force larger tuning houses to "up their game", again just my own personal opinion :happy2:
Robin has done this in the past with Milltek and we had a bust up or two as well, over the same. In fact i chose one of Nigel's exhaust last time because Robin would always take over zorst threads with his Milltek pics.
I think RR is almost as Vocal about Milltek as I am about BCS, ETTO and I respect RR and his choices (albeit vastly different from my own)
This is an open forum for it's members to discuss products, Milltek and BCS are not allowed to take part unless it is with technical help but it is very easy for these companies to get there fanboys to advertise for them and as such all perspective gets lost.
I only try to balance out the Milltek Fanboys to give BCS a chance (most will agree that Milltek get a lot of free advertising from their fanboys/customers on here and on hundereds of other forums), Let us not forget that the APR RSC exhaust is another option for buyers (considered it myself but thought it was a little too much ££ :happy2:]
If i was buying a zorst for a GTI again, i would probably look at BCS first, but postings in this thread and on here in general lately have me thinking to much fanboy and not enough factboy is going on.
Is'nt everyone a Fanboy of their chosen tuner?, most on here are either Revo or Apr (with a bit of Bluefin thrown in) or the old ITG (Now VWR rebadged) vs Forge Twintake debate and most threads contain these products, one of the reasons I chose the Volant was that originally I could not decide between ITG/Forge so opted for something that did the same (Speculative) job but was less well known, I think I am right in saying I was the Guinea pig/test pilot for that one too, altho someone else is getting one and doing all the logs/runs to get an accurate read on how it performs (which is a great idea) :wink:
All in my opinion of course.
And we are all entitled to our own
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It wasn't getting heated. :innocent: Just some perspective was needed. It is very easy on the internet for 1 or 2 people to take over threads and convince the world what they have is the best, usually because they need to reaffirm there own choices. Robin has done this in the past with Milltek and we had a bust up or two as well, over the same. In fact i chose one of Nigel's exhaust last time because Robin would always take over zorst threads with his Milltek pics.
....Hi TC, I do hope you'll agree that as I have got even older I have become more objective in my posted views about products since those days. I feel this particular thread is an example - I've presented information and shared my own experiences and encouraged folks to make up their own minds. But I have also defended against what I have viewed as misinformation - I believe in fairness.
My character has a strong tendency to get enthusiastic about products I have researched and finally chosen but I do my very best to be objective, especially in any Reviews I write here.
One of the many good things about this forum is that it keeps people 'honest' :grouphug:
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It wasn't getting heated. :innocent: Just some perspective was needed. It is very easy on the internet for 1 or 2 people to take over threads and convince the world what they have is the best, usually because they need to reaffirm there own choices. Robin has done this in the past with Milltek and we had a bust up or two as well, over the same. In fact i chose one of Nigel's exhaust last time because Robin would always take over zorst threads with his Milltek pics.
My character has a strong tendency to get enthusiastic about products I have researched and finally chosen but I do my very best to be objective, especially in any Reviews I write here.
:congrats: I hear ya :happy2:
One of the many good things about this forum is that it keeps people 'honest' :grouphug:
Hence I offered to post up my receipt showing price paid for my zorst, I have nothing to hide here! :happy2:
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One of the many good things about this forum is that it keeps people 'honest' :grouphug:
Hence I offered to post up my receipt showing price paid for my zorst, I have nothing to hide here! :happy2:
....I principally meant 'keeping people honest' in terms of keeping everyone from getting things out of perspective rather than only in financial dealings. :happy2:
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One of the many good things about this forum is that it keeps people 'honest' :grouphug:
Hence I offered to post up my receipt showing price paid for my zorst, I have nothing to hide here! :happy2:
....I principally meant 'keeping people honest' in terms of keeping everyone from getting things out of perspective rather than only in financial dealings. :happy2:
Works for both, I don't mind anyway, I was also fully upfront in my review when I had DSG map done :happy2:
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It wasn't getting heated. :innocent: Just some perspective was needed. It is very easy on the internet for 1 or 2 people to take over threads and convince the world what they have is the best, usually because they need to reaffirm there own choices. Robin has done this in the past with Milltek and we had a bust up or two as well, over the same. In fact i chose one of Nigel's exhaust last time because Robin would always take over zorst threads with his Milltek pics.
....Hi TC, I do hope you'll agree that as I have got even older I have become more objective in my posted views about products since those days. I feel this particular thread is an example - I've presented information and shared my own experiences and encouraged folks to make up their own minds. But I have also defended against what I have viewed as misinformation - I believe in fairness.
My character has a strong tendency to get enthusiastic about products I have researched and finally chosen but I do my very best to be objective, especially in any Reviews I write here.
One of the many good things about this forum is that it keeps people 'honest' :grouphug:
You have definitely become more objective Robin, that is for sure. you still drive a few people mad from time to time but you are most definitely part of the furniture and will remain so until you croak. :signLOL: :wink:
I know your enthusiasm for products was just that, enthusiasm, but at the time we were trying to create a different feeling from the old forum, were it was balls out arguing over advertising and companies involvement and sponsorship. We just wanted a different feel. Saint Steve used to think i was picking on him all the time ( still does ) but again, this forum was going to be different or what was the point. I was and still am, very sensitive to product advertising from companies. Members with Vag group cars who take part are encouraged to sell and promote there business as the forum is for them :smiley:.
and its the lack of promotion in my opinion that keeps this place pure and respectful. I dont mind our members thinking i am being out of order if the long term goal is achieved and this place ticks along as it always has. :drinking:
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I dont mind our members thinking i am being out of order if the long term goal is achieved and this place ticks along as it always has. :drinking:
I don't think your out of order, just overly suspicious and wrong sometimes :innocent:
I fully agree with having no sponsors/advertising as generally that means it ends up being a forum tagged onto a "favoured few tuners" shop, and worst still only the big ones................ :happy2:
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millteks overrated and overpriced.
Who wants to see pics of milltek exhausts that have been fitted on cars for 9-12 months and look like sh*t?
Scorpion, BCS, APR all make good products.
F-town is good too but pricey last I heard.
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Haha Ive read the rest of the thread now after my gung ho reply.
I dont recommend milltek anymore after my first experience of it didnt end up to well at all. And dont put too much faith into the so called lifetime warranty either
Its down to milltek to sort out there issues now as alot of people have been saying it, the quality has dropped.
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Haha Ive read the rest of the thread now after my gung ho reply.
I dont recommend milltek anymore after my first experience of it didnt end up to well at all. And dont put too much faith into the so called lifetime warranty either
Its down to milltek to sort out there issues now as a lot of people have been saying it, the quality has dropped.
:congrats:
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https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.361122790635605.83228.155502187864334&type=1
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https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.361122790635605.83228.155502187864334&type=1
Edited to say for those who may not be aware this is a tour of the Milltek factory workshop in China, were they have gone to great expense and imported lots hairy men from Derby to work there. :happy2:
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https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.361122790635605.83228.155502187864334&type=1
Edited to say for those who may not be aware this is a tour of the Milltek factory workshop in China, were they have gone to great expense and imported lots hairy men from Derby to work there. :happy2:
i think you got that wrong the steel is imported from china not the men :P :signLOL:
(i have no idea where it comes from and dont care ) :rolleye: