MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: RedRobin on September 13, 2012, 10:06:49 am
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FSuperPro_logo.jpg&hash=5f7435cd6ce3a5bcfa832f8e81e30a80862bb0ac)
WHAT ARE THEY?
Aftermarket replacement suspension component bushes made of tough polyurethane instead of the OEM rubber and with specifically engineered steel crush tubes where appropriate. But because this is one of those mods which you cannot see and which takes time and hence costs you more to fit, are poly bushes something you need?
SuperPro Bush features: http://www.superpro.eu.com/whysuperpro/features.aspx
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FWishbone-Mk4-Rear-Pair.jpg&hash=e995901a57e279793730121d7481903a18137930)
^ Product quality is beyond question - They inspire confidence in their durability and retention.
POLYURETHANE vs RUBBER
The OEM suspension bushes are made from a hard rubber substance which over time will deteriorate and will almost certainly need replacing one day on a high mileage car. Also, the OEM bushes are less resilient, increase their hardness (durometer) when compressed, losing elasticity, and so lower their ability to perform well with other aftermarket suspension mods. This doesn't mean that OEM bushes are rubbish but that they are designed for the unmodified car and to be production cost efficient in the car's lowest common denominator marketplace.
SuperPro polyurethane is manufactured using cold pour/thermo setting processes and will return to and retain its original shape. It is also resistant to oil, petrol, salt, and other airborne contaminants which a car is subjected to. Rubber isn't.
On a tuned performance car with modified suspension, rubber is not man enough for the job in the longer term. I know quite a few folks who have swopped out their rubber bushes for polyurethanes just to achieve a more improved and integrated suspension for better roadholding and without waiting for any signs of the OEM rubber deteriorating.
WHY NOT REPLACE OEM BUSHES WITH OEM BUSHES?
The illustration below shows all the suspension bushes on a Mk5 Golf. You can doubtless appreciate that changing all the bushes is labour intensive and especially when some of the high mileage OEM bushes become difficult to remove, as is very often the case. Pass me the lump hammer!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FSuperPro_Mk5.gif&hash=39fdfaaca7299aad97a98fdddbd726370ed37ed3)
Therefore it is the same in labour costs to replace them with polyurethane bushes and gain their advantages and longer life, as it is to replace them with OEM rubber bushes.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FLeon_full_kit_zps67da33f9.jpg&hash=115e473a0ce5bfb0a3caa7e59fcc72197ab33a98)
^ Full SuperPro kit for Leon Cupra [Tsfi_Mike]
Okay, so that's enough about polyurethane and rubber products but what do SuperPro polybushes contribute to the enjoyment of driving?
THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE:
Even with handling mods such as KW V3 coilovers, WALK, Quaife diff, UNIbraces XB and UB, Eibach ARB's, VWR engine mounts and front poly bushes already done, to my surprise I instantly felt a further improvement in the handling of the car. Fitting polyurethane bushes tightens up every connection in your chassis, thereby removing what are small amounts of play but which add up collectively to something bigger. I performed several heavy emergency braking tests and the whole car felt rigidly planted with hardly any nose diving and the car keeping absolutely straight - My car has AP Racing front brakes and S3 rears resulting in very evenly balanced braking. Fitting SuperPro poly bushes may not be a mod which you can see but it is a mod which you can feel.
When driving hard and fast on twisty roads the car feels extremely well planted. It felt well planted before this mod but the poly bushes take it a step further. Taut, tactile, and now tight. I can't wait for my next drive.
ALTERNATIVES:
Similar poly bushes are offered by PolyBush and by Powerflex and I have their Front Wishbone Bushes (number 1 on the illustration).
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FVWR_WishboneBushWALK.jpg&hash=3513d5f682a497ec76d6e8a2721820877b48ab6d)
^ The purple bush is by Powerflex and fitted by VWR to balance my WALK. The WALK consoles have yellow polyurethane bushes.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FVWR_WishboneBushes.jpg&hash=18b07a7651b64a34da1ac75966e401f104314cfd)
^ Powerflex bushes (Front Wishbone).
I don't know how SuperPro compare with either the Powerflex or the PolyBush polyurethane bushes.
PolyBush Review by h4rdy: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30593.0.html
SOURCE:
AKS Tuning: http://www.facebook.com/AKStuning
Alex of AKS arranged a Group Buy on the forum with generous discount: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,49608.0.html
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FSuperProboxes.jpg&hash=f5a1cd5eaf5b40be866ea3ab73413f2eae0a3ee6)
As I already have aftermarket Eibach Anti Roll Bars (with their own poly bushes) and also WALK with Powerflex wishbone bushes, I only needed the SuperPro rear kit.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FSuperPro_RearKit.jpg&hash=1d227cfa1be29da4d246911887e79c088ea846db)
^ Mk5 Golf Rear Kit - Separate and specific SuperPro kits are offered for many brands of car - They are not universal.
INSTALLATION:
Being very methodical and applying patience is the key in all workshop practices. I don't own the tools, workshop, or have the expertise to do mechanics etc myself so I went to JKM who I regularly use and trust implicitly. To allow enough time for any tricky OEM bush removals and to have my car properly aligned afterwards, JKM asked for one and a half days and were able to lend me a new Volkswagen Polo.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FOEMbushes_AKS.jpg&hash=85472fccf78ff9b6f24e5a0e4ae5d33da9f80e7a)
^ Typical removed OEM bushes [photo courtesy of Alex @ AKS]
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FSuperPro_2630.jpg&hash=211911bfc4ba247f8b10cdc43a956e1240e9d881)
^ Rear Trailing Arm - Bush number 8 on the Golf Mk5 illustration.
You can see how the OEM bush designs compare badly with the SuperPro poly bush designs.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRR%2Ffile-1.jpg&hash=07f9a77a5f6891bc386780a8449e450c382348f5)
ALIGNMENT:
It is very important to have alignment professionally done after installation. Mine was done on a Hunter Laser Rig.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FHunterLaserRig.jpg&hash=fe1e08eedf551b19dcfc936ac2257129a8ee3cf5)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2Ffile.jpg&hash=568ce3fae3132792fb3f745170b8e5f5c73f2f4f)
PLUS POINTS:
- Polyurethane's inherent properties and ability to return to its original shape.
- Each SuperPro bush is individually designed to achieve the optimum performance for its location on the car.
- Eliminates problems where the OEM rubber bushes are prone to failure.
- Improved roadholding.
- Significantly improves the feel of the car when driving hard by tightening up the suspension.
- More responsive steering - Not something I noticed but probably because all my front poly bushes were already fitted.
- Increased tyre life is claimed - Surely not to the extent of being significant, but we'll see and every little bit helps.
- Longevity.
- 3 years or 36,000 miles warranty.
MINUS POINTS:
- In spite of manufacturer's claims to the contrary, I immediately noticed a tiny bit more vibration and an even greater sense of what the road surface is. But all very much in a good way as far as I am concerned. No noise increase though.
- A relatively expensive mod but costs can be spread by buying and then installing later. Alignment adds to the cost but is very necessary.
- If you plan to put your car back to standard before selling, it would involve significant labour costs as well as the cost of buying new OEM rubber bushes. Pointless returning bushes to OEM, in my opinion.
SUMMARY:
With handling mods such as KW V3 coilovers, WALK, Quaife diff, UNIbraces XB and UB, Eibach ARB's, VWR engine mounts and front poly bushes already done, I had serious doubts how much improvement I would feel and I fitted the SuperPro's principally because at over 100k miles I knew I would need to replace the OEM bushes sooner rather or later. Alex at AKS was offering a forum Group Buy with generous discount and so it became a no-brainer.
My car was an absolute joy to drive before and it's even more of a joy to drive enthusiastically now. Jim of JKM, who is known as a very talented fast driver, told me after his 20-mile test drive that my car "feels very well planted" and I have since heard that he told someone else that "it drove well". He already knows my car very well so it was good to hear his valued opinions and that I was consequently not suffering from any placebo effect - So very easy to do immediately after installing a mod. At this time of writing I have driven about 300 enthusiastic miles on fast twisty and roller coaster roads.
If your car is performance tuned with suspension mods and you plan to keep her, then I wholeheartedly recommend SuperPro poly bushes as a mod.
The phrase "VW Golf - Designed And Built By German Craftsmen, Modified By Mad Englishmen" comes to mind.
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Great review as always. :happy2:
Fish
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Great review Robin!
Mine were fitted yesterday :jumping:
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Great review, I will have these one day along with most of your suspension mods, will probably gor for the supe-pro walk version though...
Your car must handle amazingly!
Hate to think what the bill was for 1.5days work @JKM... lol
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^^^^
Thanks for the compliments, guys :drinking:
Yes, if I didn't already have WALK and would have gone for SuperPro's ALK - SPALK? SALK?
Yep, my car handles amazingly. It's very confidence inspiring and I need to be careful in exploring exactly how amazingly! Gently does it on familiar roads.... bit by bit.
It was a very short 1.5 days @ JKM. :happy2:
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cool, have these and think will get fitted in october at some point.
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cool, have these and think will get fitted in october at some point.
....Sounds like you are doing what I did: Spreading the costs by leaving time between purchase and installation :happy2:
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Enjoyed reading this, thanks Robin for taking the time to write up your experience :notworthy:
The question is though. . Where can YOU take your handling mods any further? I think you've done all the handling mods :grin:
Graeme
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I can guarantee before Robin hits 200,000 miles he will have tried another chassis upgrade :P
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How much did it cost to fit these?
Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk 2
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How much did it cost to fit these?
Fitting costs depends on the garage's hourly labour rate. iirc it's around 5-6 hours labour time.
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Great review Robin. Are they your alignment results after the bushes were fitted? Are you getting much understeer when pushing hard?
There are my fitting costs in the old group buy thread.
I feel a nice set of TT arms should be the next mod, or some Ground Control top mounts from me to get some more front camber.
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Enjoyed reading this, thanks Robin for taking the time to write up your experience :notworthy:
The question is though. . Where can YOU take your handling mods any further? I think you've done all the handling mods :grin:
Graeme
....Thanks, Graeme :drinking: - I enjoy writing reviews for the forum and reading other people's experiences.
I've never had a long term plan - My handling mods have just evolved from Eibach ARB's back in 2006 (still on the car) and KW V3 coilovers in around 2009 IIRC. I don't know if lightweight arms would make much difference now and I don't feel anything is lacking in the handling department. Ooops! I forgot to include the Quaife diff in my review text.
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Are they your alignment results after the bushes were fitted? Are you getting much understeer when pushing hard?
....Yes, posted alignment results are after the bushes fitted.
No understeer so far. Are you expecting that I might do so?
I feel a nice set of TT arms should be the next mod, or some Ground Control top mounts from me to get some more front camber.
....I don't know how TT arms would benefit my existing setup. Or whether SuperPro arms would be better.
Do Ground Control top mounts fit with KW V3's? I don't want uneven tyre wear from too much camber.
Overall I am pretty satisfied with my handling setup right now - It's practical for fast road use.
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Told you they were good, well the PolyBush ones anyway, the single most noticeable suspension mod there is.
I ever buy another car it will be the first thing I do.
Great review RR, as per........
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Had them done to my fabia. Blown away by the improvement. Way more than I expected
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people who have them fitted - would you say they help a little in getting the power down or purely with the handling when going through the fast twisties
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people who have them fitted - would you say they help a little in getting the power down or purely with the handling when going through the fast twisties
I wouldn't say theres any traction advantages,but there is so much more feel and control because there is no slop. Doesnnt sound much but its really notable
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The Fabia felt really taught and firm and direct. Even as a passenger.
It didn't feel notably harsh driving home either. Win win.
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people who have them fitted - would you say they help a little in getting the power down or purely with the handling when going through the fast twisties
I wouldn't say theres any traction advantages,but there is so much more feel and control because there is no slop. Doesnnt sound much but its really notable
.... x 2 Totally agree :happy2: - Exactly my findings too.
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I can guarantee before Robin hits 200,000 miles he will have tried another chassis upgrade :P
....And I can guarantee that before you hit another 200 miles you will have done another mod :P
I look forward to reading how you have found your poly bushings after fitting. :happy2:
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Good write up Robin,
I want them on my mk2 leon cupra at some stage
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I enjoyed reading your review. Sounds like a very worthwhile upgrade which I will now consider at some juncture, based on the strength of your post.
Keep up the good work :smiley:
PJ
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^^^^
Hi PJ :happy2: [Love your Poppy sig - I have a big silk Poppy permanently on my dashboard]
When I write a review it's of course after I have bought the product and having gone as far as deciding to buy something I am naturally pleased and hence enthusiastic about it. The seductive temptress is always Miss Placebo who does everything to justify my expenditure (and encourages me to spend even more!). Consequently I always very consciously do my utmost to write about the product objectively. I really enjoy writing.
I sometimes get a little concerned when someone spends their hard earned money as a result of just my review! But, as I said in this bushes review, for a high mileage car and one which the owner enjoys handling mods, it is indeed a very worthwhile upgrade although relatively subtle. On the other hand, if someone has the funds available and wants the benefits of a mod, the mileage doesn't matter - A friend of mine installed a Quaife diff and full polyurethane bushes very soon after he bought his GTI new! But his other car is a Lotus and I think he wanted to achieve the best handling he could.
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Hi,
sorry for digging this thread outm but I need an advice... I've had a full superpro bushes kit installed. The kit I had installed is a road kit with antilift.
The car is more confortable than before, less crashy, turn in is more positive (I feel I have to rotate the steering wheel less to steer the same amount), grip is improved in corners. BUT I feel the car is more twitchy on highways (at around 100mph on very rough highways, I'm in Bulgaria) : I feel the rear of the car is less precise. Funny enough, when I don't tuch the steering wheel the car is very stable, when I touch the wheel the car feels twitchy.
So now, do you know which kit you had installed (road or track)? Is it possible the road kit is softer than the OEM bushes? Is it normal the car feels more twitchy with a SALK?
Honestly the car feels fantastic in the twists. The missus was with me so I didn't push too hard, but the cars feels like the limits are further than before.
Thanks!
Julien
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Sounds more of an alignment issue.
But better bushes will transfer more of the road surface through them to the suspension so I would imagine give the feeling of decreased stability, while in reality it's probably just the bushes telling you what's actually going on rather than the factory bushes which would sort of mush and hide a lot of it.
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Hi,
thanks a lot for your fast reply!
I was assuming something like that : too much informations and I have to recalibrate. It really feels like the car is more direct and the inputs I make are too big and make the car unstable. My bushings were original and 120000km of very very very bad roads old. This may explain that... I may have a play tomorrow if I have time, to see how it really feels.
I forgot to ask for the alignment report though I'm sure they aligned the car : I saw them do it. The workshop is very well reknown here in Bulgaria, so I don't think there is a problem there. I'll have a look tomorrow (the bill is in the car, there may be an alignment report with it). I'll probably phone the shop too, to get their feeling about the whole thing.
Thanks.
Julien
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Hi,
so, I've had a longer drive on the usual roads here (not highways). 400km including a mountain pass, faster twisties, everything a road can give. In a few words : the car is perfect, it's me who have to recalivbrate. It's perfectly stable in every conditions, much better on turn in, much grippier (so now I drive faster :stupid:). Everything is fine. Now I have more road time with the mod my inputs are more adapted to the new manoeuverability. Everything is fine. The car is still more comfortable. A very very good mod indeed !
Julien
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Great review! :happy2:
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Thanks very helpful
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5 years on and no problems.