MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: tony_danza on February 08, 2013, 03:32:35 am
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Tough one this, whenever we see those "keys taken and car stolen" threads, there's always a few calling for their heads...
Well, seems a couple of thieves are now toast. I wouldn't wish this upon them, maybe being hurt a bit, but what a horrible way to go.
stolen Audi crashes killing 2 thieves (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-21377614)
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Erm, no. Not in my opinion, but it's the risk they took.
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This thread is pretty much tee'd up for a load of people saying death is an appropriate punishment for theft of a car.
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It is, I wonder if now it's actually happened they'll reconsider? The impact it'll have on their families, for example.
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I'm sorry but, although it's not exactly proportionate I have no sympathy.
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A mate of mine had a brand new Audi Q5 nicked in Leeds. They went in his house & took the keys. Must have been watching the house and waiting for him to come home :fighting:
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Im not saying that people deserve to die for it at all but breaking in to someones house and taking the keys and the car is disgusting and they deserve everything they get. Id prefer they survived with extreme burns and/or disabilites so maybe they could learn from their actions! :mad:
Impact on their families? Im sure they are well proud 'what does your son do for a living?' 'he steals cars'! F**k em is what i say!
No sympathy at all!
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One has to ask if they'd have committed a hit and run in their attempts to escape would they have pulled over to check whether or not they did or did not hit that small child.
I suspect not.
Think it can be summed up by "live by the sword - die by the sword"
The die was cast the first time they took drugs or stole a car and got away with it imvho..
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i do have some sympathy, everyone makes mistakes in life.
Would not wish anyone to die just get banged up and learn there lesson.
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This thread is pretty much tee'd up for a load of people saying death is an appropriate punishment for theft of a car.
I'd agree that death via capital punishment is not proportionate for the crime of stealing a car, Though I'd say it was certainly an occupational hazard of your average car thief / joyrider, so whilst their demise was certainly a grim one I have not one ounce of sympathy I'm afraid..
The choice in this case would seem simple.. Do not carry out aggravated burglary/Do not steal car/Do not go on high speed joyride rampage = No risk of dying in a fireball
At any point they had the option to choose not to carry out this act and take chances with not only their own lives but those of the family they robbed and every other person using the roads that night, all too often an innocent party gets caught up in these type of crimes so im thankful that isn't the case this time round.
Pursuing a life of crime, especially one that involves driving stolen cars recklessly at high speed on the public roads obviously carries some risk and it has finally caught up with these two, so yes on some level they got exactly what was coming to them..
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One has to ask if they'd have committed a hit and run in their attempts to escape would they have pulled over to check whether or not they did or did not hit that small child.
I suspect not.
Think it can be summed up by "live by the sword - die by the sword"
The die was cast the first time they took drugs or stole a car and got away with it imvho..
Absolutly spot on!
This thread is pretty much tee'd up for a load of people saying death is an appropriate punishment for theft of a car.
I'd agree that death via capital punishment is not proportionate for the crime of stealing a car, Though I'd say it was certainly an occupational hazard of your average car thief / joyrider, so whilst their demise was certainly a grim one I have not one ounce of sympathy I'm afraid..
The choice in this case would seem simple.. Do not carry out aggravated burglary/Do not steal car/Do not go on high speed joyride rampage = No risk of dying in a fireball
At any point they had the option to choose not to carry out this act and take chances with not only their own lives but those of the family they robbed and every other person using the roads that night, all too often an innocent party gets caught up in these type of crimes so im thankful that isn't the case this time round.
Pursuing a life of crime, especially one that involves driving stolen cars recklessly at high speed on the public roads obviously carries some risk and it has finally caught up with these two, so yes on some level they got exactly what was coming to them..
Very well said :congrats:
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If was their choice to steal the car so they deserve whatever consequences come from it.
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Impact on their families? Im sure they are well proud 'what does your son do for a living?' 'he steals cars'! F**k em is what i say!
It's pretty impossible to say until you know their circumstances. For example what if the two that died were 14-years-old, with good, honest parents struggling to bring their children up in one of Manchester's most deprived, crime-riddled areas where getting away from bad influences is nigh on impossible. What if they didn't know where their children were that night? Would you feel sorry for them then?
I'm only playing devil's advocate here, and trying to illustrate the point that people too easily draw dangerous assumptions in these cases. Equally they could have been career criminals from gutter families. No-one really knows.
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If was their choice to steal the car so they deserve whatever consequences come from it.
There was a case may be 5 years ago in Scotland of a gang or criminals that enlisted child slaves bought from human traffickers and forced them to steal cars.
Again, to say it was their choice is an assumption.
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Impact on their families? Im sure they are well proud 'what does your son do for a living?' 'he steals cars'! F**k em is what i say!
It's pretty impossible to say until you know their circumstances. For example what if the two that died were 14-years-old, with good, honest parents struggling to bring their children up in one of Manchester's most deprived, crime-riddled areas where getting away from bad influences is nigh on impossible. What if they didn't know where their children were that night? Would you feel sorry for them then?
I'm only playing devil's advocate here, and trying to illustrate the point that people too easily draw dangerous assumptions in these cases. Equally they could have been career criminals from gutter families. No-one really knows.
Well i say they shouldnt be letting their 14 year old to p*** around in Manchester at 10pm. Not to mention it was a bloody school night :signLOL:
In all fairness we dont know the circumstances but its wrong no matter what they are, im just glad no one worth caring about got hurt!
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All human life is worth caring about mate.
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All human life is worth caring about mate.
Life is worth more than any car yeah they needed a slap but not death that's just wrong
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All human life is worth caring about mate.
Not entirely true, the world would of been better if certain people were never born. Hitler, Bin Laden and all of the people from terrorist organisations to name a few!
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Tough titties.
It's prevented them from carrying out further robberies.
It's saved us money by not having to house them in prison.
It serves as a harsh reality check for all car thieves.
I don't think it's that disproportionate actually... They could have easily killed someone else by dangerous driving. Them killing themselves is far more preferable than killing innocent bystanders.
I don't see any bad points.
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Tough titties.
It's prevented them from carrying out further robberies.
It's saved us money by not having to house them in prison.
It serves as a harsh reality check for all car thieves.
I don't think it's that disproportionate actually... They could have easily killed someone else by dangerous driving. Them killing themselves is far more preferable than killing innocent bystanders.
I don't see any bad points.
Win, win, win :congrats:
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Tough titties.
It's prevented them from carrying out further robberies.
It's saved us money by not having to house them in prison.
It serves as a harsh reality check for all car thieves.
I don't think it's that disproportionate actually... They could have easily killed someone else by dangerous driving. Them killing themselves is far more preferable than killing innocent bystanders.
I don't see any bad points.
Hold on, have I accidentally logged onto the Daily Mail website?
:wink:
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I think this incident could be best described as Darwinism, one can only hope they didn't spread there genes to much before they made one too many wrong choices.
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There's also many reports of cars being stolen with kids in car seats. So for those with children and advocating leniency imagine you car getting stolen and seeing your kids and car bursting Into flames in front of you.
Still mourning for the people who led to the death of a child?
Thought so....
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Tough titties.
It's prevented them from carrying out further robberies.
It's saved us money by not having to house them in prison.
It serves as a harsh reality check for all car thieves.
I don't think it's that disproportionate actually... They could have easily killed someone else by dangerous driving. Them killing themselves is far more preferable than killing innocent bystanders.
I don't see any bad points.
Hold on, have I accidentally logged onto the Daily Mail website?
:wink:
:innocent:
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Tough titties.
It's prevented them from carrying out further robberies.
It's saved us money by not having to house them in prison.
It serves as a harsh reality check for all car thieves.
I don't think it's that disproportionate actually... They could have easily killed someone else by dangerous driving. Them killing themselves is far more preferable than killing innocent bystanders.
I don't see any bad points.
would this affect the future premiums of the owners of the parked cars that were hit and subsequently burnt out?
Rich
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It was an occupational hazard for them and they could have injured or killed another road user/pedestrian and you can bet your bollocks on a barn dance they wouldn't have stopped to check if they were still alive!
In the end no one innocent was caught up in it.
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I'd say that while death isn't necessarily proportionate to the crime, I certainly don't feel much sympathy.
However, there is a caveat. Until we know the full story of how the vehicle was stolen, we can't realise the full picture.
If they stoved a door in and took some baseball bats/knives to an innocent family, well then that's life.........
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Where this happened is just down the road from me, my wife has a friend who's front room is about 40m away from it all.
I have no sympathy for these 2 at all, it was there choice surely because where they had stolen it from and where the crashed happened and where they had previously been chased by a traffic officer earlier in the evening shows that they had been joyriding around, I'm sure they wouldn't be doing that if someone had 'made' them steal this car.
I do have sympathy though for the young girl that watched it happen when she heard the car skidding towards the parked cars. Also the various homes that had windows smashed from the explosion, the emergency services that had to deal with the situation and the other local people who witnessed it or had damage done to their cars.
The 2 occupant of the vehicle died yes but it was self inflicted and didn't care about innocent people getting caught up in it all it seems.
I feel for their families though so long as they are decent people, if they didn't mind their lads being like that then my views about them would soon change.
I'd hate to be in one of the emergency services with some of the situations you'd have to deal with. I've had to witness a few but that's enough for me, those that see it regularly... I take my hat off to you!
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Having been a victim of such a crime, i've no sympathy at all. The lads who took my cars managed to rack up 6 speeding tickets (in 2 cars) ranging from 72mph to 103mph in 30mph zones. f*cking idiots.
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scum dont deserve sympathy....
2 more free-loaders 6ft under.
:pomppomp: :pomppomp:
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F*ck em. Scum of society. Good riddance.
They could have easily killed one of my daughters while innocently driving along in one of their cars or my beautiful little granddaughter in her pushchair while being taking for a stroll.
What goes around.....
DONT ROB, STEAL, BURGAL AND DESTROY LIVES!!
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Karma's a bitch. :evilgrin:
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i do believe in the death penalty (for murders and sexual offences where the person was caught red-handed)
in this case it's not proportionate, but i still don't care about the thieves. they are a menace to society, so they should be removed from society. at least this way my tax money isn't going to give them 3 square meals a day, a roof over their head and a Playstation in their cell.
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Hundreds of reasons why nonone should be sad these f*ckers are dead.
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Karma's a bitch. :evilgrin:
+1 :happy2:
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Karma's a bitch. :evilgrin:
+1 :happy2:
+2
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Karma's a bitch. :evilgrin:
+1 :happy2:
+2
+3 :happy2:
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DONT ROB, STEAL, BURGAL AND DESTROY LIVES!!
Ahem *burgle*
But agree with the above sentiments. Death was OTT but no tears shed for those two.
In all honesty, I have thought about exploding anti-theft devices (car blows up if it goes out of a certain range) but collateral damage means it's a Neddy no-no.
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Yea bad way to die no doubt, don't think they deserved it either.
At the end of the day it wouldn't bother me if every car thief died this way and if it was my home they raided to get the car I'd probably be quite happy with that outcome.
If revo done an exploding car once stolen setting on the SPS I'd buy it !!
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All human life is worth caring about mate.
....I don't agree! And I'm not referring to this car theft case.
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IF these two thieves had broken into someone's home to get the car keys as well, I have even less sympathy.
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T
DONT ROB, STEAL, BURGAL AND DESTROY LIVES!!
Ahem *burgle*
But agree with the above sentiments. Death was OTT but no tears shed for those two.
In all honesty, I have thought about exploding anti-theft devices (car blows up if it goes out of a certain range) but collateral damage means it's a Neddy no-no.
Thank you, my spelling leaves something to be desired! :ashamed:
I do like the idea of the anti theft device. An Imploding device would be cool. :laugh:
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All human life is worth caring about mate.
....I don't agree! And I'm not referring to this car theft case.
I know I irritate at times but that's a bit over the top :sad1:
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All human life is worth caring about mate.
....I don't agree! And I'm not referring to this car theft case.
I know I irritate at times but that's a bit over the top :sad1:
....It wasn't aimed at you in the slightest, Andrew - You don't irritate me, we are all different. I was just being brutally honest about how I feel.
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I know Robin, it was a joke :smiley:
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:laugh:
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I know Robin, it was a joke :smiley:
....Sorry, I haven't had a great day, not helped by one of those cold phone calls this evening from some *%^/!!* trying to sell me solar panels :fighting:
I tried to find out who they were but they hung up. I'm ex-directory FFS!
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Well at least it proves that it's not only in the A-Team that cars explode and burn when crashed! :drinking:
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On the plus side the owner of said car gets to go buy a new one rather than have to have a car thats been ragged by some oxygen thieving scum bag! :happy2:
Have to agree with Hedge, Karma is a bihatch! :evilgrin:
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Yep, what goes around comes around!
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I don't see death in this case as being OTT as it was hardly meted out by the government on behalf of society - i don't agree with the death penalty but if the perpetrator of a crime, which potentially puts the lives of innocent people in jeopardy, self inflicts death in the process - well shoite happens and i very much doubt sales of tissues will rise as a result. Nor should they. :smiley:
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Well today I've heard the Audi they took was an S4 and CCTV shows them turning up in a silver Vectra, the 2 lads getting out, smashing a window at the house and taking the keys and taking off with the car following the Vectra away. The thing is, they have still not been identified or hadn't at around 3pm today when u found this out. The person/people in the Vectra haven't said anything and the family of the deceased haven't realised these 2 are missing either it seems.
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It isn't always the case of course, but often thieving scum like that have parents and family who are either partly responsible for how their offspring have turned out or are even approving. Having said that, I am paradoxically sympathetic to Great Train Robber Ronnie Biggs. I have a strange morality which GENERALLY accepts others stealing off banks and government but not directly off individuals - I'm sure I'm not alone in this view even though it is warped.
A few years ago I was indirectly involved in a paedo case and the evidence was absolutely beyond any doubt whatsoever (the accused had filmed his disgusting acts). His family protested his innocence and were so extremely abusive and threatening to me that the Police offered me options for protection! The family were in total denial.
I wouldn't be surprised if the families of these two who burnt up will most likely say how wonderful and innocent the fruit of their loins were! The truth will out.
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The fact is, not everyone is born equal. We're all a product of our upbringing, our education, and of those who influence us. Whether you believe it or not, some people are born with no chance of ever becoming a good person.
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You always have a choice Andrew.
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I can't believe how moralistic everyone is being, two thieving scumbags are dead bonus, two more off the streets.
I don't know there family's and and don't care what there going through, if people decide they want to take others property then having a gruesome death at the end only seems righteous to me.
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f*ck them! They deserved it! Not just for stealing the car but for causing me to be stuck in traffic on my way home yesterday due to the road closure/diversions!
And after what happened to me last year I'm even less sympathetic! Just hope it was the same f*ckwits that took mine!
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f*ck them! They deserved it! Not just for stealing the car but for causing me to be stuck in traffic on my way home yesterday due to the road closure/diversions!
And after what happened to me last year I'm even less sympathetic! Just hope it was the same f*ckwits that took mine!!
That would be a happy thought for you mate, I do hope so!
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At the risk of sounding all wussy....
My first reaction was tough tits, then for some reason I got the image in my head of a kid waiting for their Dad or brother to come home. Adults can at least rationalise loss and accept it, to some degree.
This was 100% avoidable, and it's an absolutely selfish loss of life, but there'll possibly be people suffering because of this that shouldn't be. I can't turn off my compassion like that.
I believe that everyone deserves a second chance and can be rehabilitated if they want to. Some people such as Dale Cregan are way beyond that and need removing from society for ever.
The other thing that bothers me is knowing the Police will in some way be blamed by certain groups for this, the same ones who think because something is insured it's a victimless crime "they can afford it, they'll get paid out" like some sort of twisted Robin Hood scenario. They seem to get angry that the police try to stop them committing crime, like its their right to do so and they've no choice but to.
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The fact is, not everyone is born equal. We're all a product of our upbringing, our education, and of those who influence us. Whether you believe it or not, some people are born with no chance of ever becoming a good person.
....I don't agree (again! Sorry, Andrew!) about some having no chance of ever becoming a good person but I would have to write a long post in reply.
But I do agree that not everyone is born equal. My father used to say that "We are all born equal, but some are more equal than others" :laugh:
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Thes plenty of people dragged themselves out of a sh*t life, just as there's plenty go from good homes to ruin. The former a far less likely, due to the cycle of hell they get dragged into in order to survive.
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Many of societies problems seem to stem from bad upbringing/poor parenting.
Some turn it around...most probably don't.
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Shame they wasted their lives, but no sympathy from me. They made a choice to steal, they made a choice to drive in the way that lead to their demise. Glad no innocent law abiding person was killed by these thieving reckless morons.
As said before - I feel sorry for those in the services that have had to clear up the carnage.
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At the risk of sounding all wussy....
My first reaction was tough tits, then for some reason I got the image in my head of a kid waiting for their Dad or brother to come home. Adults can at least rationalise loss and accept it, to some degree.
This was 100% avoidable, and it's an absolutely selfish loss of life, but there'll possibly be people suffering because of this that shouldn't be. I can't turn off my compassion like that.
I believe that everyone deserves a second chance and can be rehabilitated if they want to. Some people such as Dale Cregan are way beyond that and need removing from society for ever.
The other thing that bothers me is knowing the Police will in some way be blamed by certain groups for this, the same ones who think because something is insured it's a victimless crime "they can afford it, they'll get paid out" like some sort of twisted Robin Hood scenario. They seem to get angry that the police try to stop them committing crime, like its their right to do so and they've no choice but to.
And there lies the problem... these people have no interest in stopping doing what they do, so long as they get away with a rap on the knuckles.
If everyone who committed a crime wanted to be rehabilitated and 'changed there ways' then it would be fantastic.... however...
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Yes. And I dont give two f**ks about the families of scum either , Im more annoyed about the cars that have been damaged tbh , car theives and other associated vermin like druggies are lower than dogsh*t to me.
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Another audi off the road cant be a bad thing!!
:P
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Yes. And I dont give two f**ks about the families of scum either , Im more annoyed about the cars that have been damaged tbh , car theives and other associated vermin like druggies are lower than dogsh*t to me.
All I can say is that I'm glad there are people is this world that show compassion and understanding, and who value human life above pieces of metal.
I was listening to my Grandad, who is in his late 80s, talk about letting some young offenders into his house last week (as part of some Government rehabilitation scheme where they help the elderly). His neighbours had seemed shocked that he had let them into his house, to which he replied by saying that if no one gives them a chance, then what hope do they have of changing, of turning their life around.
Earlier in this thread Robin disagreed with me when I said that some people are born without a chance of becoming a good person. I firmly believe that the children that are born into families where crime and poverty have been ingrained for generations start life with little hope of success, or a normal life. Their teachers won't tell them otherwise, their families won't tell them otherwise, and their peers won't tell them otherwise.
It all too easy for people to generalise, to call people scum, to say they are worthless without even the merest consideration of how they arrived in that predicament.
And by the way, the person my Grandad let in his house was a 16-year-old girl who had made some mistakes, fallen in with the wrong crowd and became involved with drugs, but who was desperately trying to make her life different. With some of the attitudes displayed round here tell me that person has a choice, a choice when she is cast into the gutter classified as scum.
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Yes. And I dont give two f**ks about the families of scum either , Im more annoyed about the cars that have been damaged tbh , car theives and other associated vermin like druggies are lower than dogsh*t to me.
All I can say is that I'm glad there are people is this world that show compassion and understanding, and who value human life above pieces of metal.
I was listening to my Grandad, who is in his late 80s, talk about letting some young offenders into his house last week (as part of some Government rehabilitation scheme where they help the elderly). His neighbours had seemed shocked that he had let them into his house, to which he replied by saying that if no one gives them a chance, then what hope do they have of changing, of turning their life around.
Earlier in this thread Robin disagreed with me when I said that some people are born without a chance of becoming a good person. I firmly believe that the children that are born into families where crime and poverty have been ingrained for generations start life with little hope of success, or a normal life. Their teachers won't tell them otherwise, their families won't tell them otherwise, and their peers won't tell them otherwise.
It all too easy for people to generalise, to call people scum, to say they are worthless without even the merest consideration of how they arrived in that predicament.
And by the way, the person my Grandad let in his house was a 16-year-old girl who had made some mistakes, fallen in with the wrong crowd and became involved with drugs, but who was desperately trying to make her life different. With some of the attitudes displayed round here tell me that person has a choice, a choice when she is cast into the gutter classified as scum.
Hi Andrew,
Although i dont agree with a couple of your point on this thread, i do respect your opinion.
I wont go as far to say i think the 2 thieves certainly deserved to die for this but i also don't have much sympathy for them either and i like to think im a pretty compassionate and understanding person.
I think most people on here, like your Grandad, would have no issue with helping young offenders as part of a rehabilitation scheme. Im sure you would agree (and as would most poeple on here) that the vast majority of people deserve a second chance to sort their lives out.
On the flip side though Andrew, how would you feel if 2 thieves broke into your house, possibly holding your family at knife point, forcing you to hand over the keys to your car that you have worked so hard to buy? Then, how would you feel upon learning the 2 thieves had been ragging your car all over the place without a second thought for anyone else's safety had crashed and died? Would you still feel that same compassion and understanding of those two individuals?
Rich
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Yes, because that's the sort of person I am. I'd feel terrible in that situation.
And before anyone asks, yes I have been directly affected by crime.
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Earlier in this thread Robin disagreed with me when I said that some people are born without a chance of becoming a good person. I firmly believe that the children that are born into families where crime and poverty have been ingrained for generations start life with little hope of success, or a normal life. Their teachers won't tell them otherwise, their families won't tell them otherwise, and their peers won't tell them otherwise.
It all too easy for people to generalise, to call people scum, to say they are worthless without even the merest consideration of how they arrived in that predicament.
....I still think that in spite of growing up in the type of circumstances which you describe, an individual can still be a good person. But I do understand and accept how difficult it may be.
I also believe in compassion in some circumstances.
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Having nearly been run over this afternoon on a zebra crossing whilst pushing my 18month son in his buggy by some kun't in a black scirroco who was doing nearly 70 and could only brake to about 50 before bailing out and just sailing across the crossing - fortunately i only ever go slowly when crossing zebras unless i know traffic in both directions has stopped - i can safely say after this display of total kun't driving behavior in a built up area putting my son's life at peril, that had i seen the tw@ts in the audi crash and burn not only would i have cackled hysterically i would have also proceeded to bust out my best happy dance :jumpmove:
little scroats got everything they deserved, shame the knob head today wont get his (just yet):happy2:
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I must admit I had a similar rant when some knob in a mk5 nearly wiped out my twins and pooch when the roads were stupid icy last year......
When you involve family it makes you triple emotive and yeh I think I would have been warming my hands on the inevitable BBQ whilst watching them burn if that had ended in similar circumstances to this lot