MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 01:48:06 pm

Title: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 01:48:06 pm
Well, after waiting for what seems like an age the Team Dynamics wheels and Toyo R888's have finally landed :jumpmove:

These will be my track/Pod wheels for now.

Wheels are 17 x 7.5 ET45
Tyres are 225/45ZR17  94W RF
Overall diamenter 634mm
Overall tread width 231mm
Static radius 295mm
Revs per mile 832
Weight 11.1kg
Recommended Alloy wheel width 7.0 - 8.5"

The rating of the wheels are W rating which should be enough for track/Pod as I don't think I'll be going over a GPS 168mph!
 
The wheels and tyres weighed in at 19.3kg on my home digital scales, which means that the alloys are 8.2kg - precisely what the Team Dynamics website advertises them at :happy2:

The five main reasons for going for 17" alloys were...
1. The 225 section tyres on the 17" R888's have a wider tread width than the equivalent 18" tyre (231mm v's 224mm)
2.  The 17" Team dynamics are slightly lighter than the 18" versions
3. Due to the smaller diameter they have a further reduced moment of inertia when compared to the 18" alloy, which in turn gives a better response to accelleration & decelleration.
4. The TDPR 1.2's have a proven track record for strength.
5. Doesn't hurt that the alloys were under £500.

They aren't on the car at the moment, but here's a pic of them in the boot :grin:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FNewTeamDynamicsandR888s.jpg&hash=24b9f8ce4d8b57fb071d3656435220d6c8ce9cf6)
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Poverty on September 05, 2009, 01:58:25 pm
Sexy as. Cant wait to see some pics of them on your car. Surprised not more people have gone the 17" route when it comes to track alloys.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 02:07:06 pm
Sexy as. Cant wait to see some pics of them on your car. Surprised not more people have gone the 17" route when it comes to track alloys.

I'd suspect that most people don't even go for a set of track alloys and tyres. :laugh:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: H DUBS on September 05, 2009, 02:17:51 pm
One decent set of wheels is more tha enough for me.  :laugh:

But they look awsome. Even better lookin once on the car i bet... :happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: BMX on September 05, 2009, 02:46:38 pm
sexy rubber i love black wheels, the mrs doesnt  :sad1:

BTW what does a pascara weigh?
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 04:41:31 pm
The Pescara's weigh around 26.5lb. With tyres the weight is 24.1kg as opposed to 19.3kg for the TD/R888 combo. That is a saving of 4.8kg per wheel = 19.2kg, which is the equivalent of taking around 96kg out of the sprung weight of the car.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: WhiteGTI on September 05, 2009, 04:48:38 pm
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM nice!!!!  :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: davo01 on September 05, 2009, 04:55:16 pm
what size brakes do you have on hurdy?

ive gone for 18" track wheels with r888s
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Greeners on September 05, 2009, 04:58:51 pm
They look...........................




















Stiiiicky!  :laugh: :happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 05:00:39 pm
what size brakes do you have on hurdy?

ive gone for 18" track wheels with r888s

They are TAR-OX 10 pots with 2 piece 330mm discs :happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 05:02:34 pm
They look...........................




















Stiiiicky!  :laugh: :happy2:

I'm going to try them on the car for a month (low mile muncher me...normally), if they seem okay I'll probably go to the Nurburgring and Spa with them in October :happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RobH on September 05, 2009, 05:04:28 pm
they look sweet as  :happy2:. never understood how that unsprung wait thingy worked.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: BMX on September 05, 2009, 05:35:54 pm
The Pescara's weigh around 26.5lb. With tyres the weight is 24.1kg as opposed to 19.3kg for the TD/R888 combo. That is a saving of 4.8kg per wheel = 19.2kg, which is the equivalent of taking around 96kg out of the sprung weight of the car.

what tyres are you using to get it to 24.1kg  :scared:

ive just weighed my new pilot sport 2,s 225/40/18 and they are 9.8kg + pescara at 12.0201 = 20.92kg

so thats only 1.62kg heavier
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: oldtomo on September 05, 2009, 06:51:17 pm
The Pescara's weigh around 26.5lb. With tyres the weight is 24.1kg as opposed to 19.3kg for the TD/R888 combo. That is a saving of 4.8kg per wheel = 19.2kg, which is the equivalent of taking around 96kg out of the sprung weight of the car.

How will taking out of 96kg of the sprung weight of the car affect things?

As you can probably tell, I do not quite understand the whole sprung/unsprung weight side of things! 
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: gillm on September 05, 2009, 07:05:55 pm
i run r888 on my mk1 and they are very good but when the get hot they will stick to the bottom of your doors lol .

oh and when you srub them in make sure its dry , i got cought out in the rain when mine were new and it was dicey . man hole covers were scrary .

mine after a day @ llandow
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fe191%2Fgillm%2Fmk19a042.jpg&hash=81a5e00bb41c7c1b7bd79cd1518e42dc47dbe309)
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Peskarik on September 05, 2009, 07:08:59 pm
I take these comparisons of sprung and unsprung weight with a bit of salt.
Taking off 96kg of sprung weight is taking off 96kg of tangible weight.
Changing alloys is taking off 15kg of tangible unsprung weight, and then we have the multiplier, which Hurdy puts at 5 (96/19), but some other guy may put at 6 or 3..

Changing from MonzaII to Alleggerita I feel the car moves somewhat smoother over rough surface, that's all I tangibly feel. Improved acceleration, deceleration - maybe, as I still lost 15kg of static weight.

Are there any tests that show how changing alloys improves things? (acceleration/deceleration/lap time etc)
Are there any tests that show that 15kg of unsprung weight loss is equivalent to say 96kg of sprung weight loss? (acceleration/deceleration/lap time etc)

So far it is all hearsay evidence, somehow, don't you think?
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 05, 2009, 07:45:34 pm
....

Regardless of the theory and science, those who have lighter weight wheels all report that driver feedback from the road is much improved.

They better not be lying! WhiteGTI!!!!!
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 05, 2009, 07:53:07 pm

Surprised not more people have gone the 17" route when it comes to track alloys.


....17's are certainly reckoned by most to be better than 18's on track but that doesn't mean that 18's aren't any good.

Hurdy and Chris would know better than myself, but lighter weight is probably the first consideration and 17's will always be lighter than 18's in the same wheel design.

I've chosen 18's for my OZ Allegerita's rather than their 17's, for aesthetic reasons. My car is basically a 5-door 'Fast Road' car which occasionally will do track. But I'm the sort who likes plenty of feedback regardless of where I'm driving.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Janner_Sy on September 05, 2009, 08:49:03 pm
what size brakes do you have on hurdy?

ive gone for 18" track wheels with r888s

They are TAR-OX 10 pots with 2 piece 330mm discs :happy2:


WHAT!!!! :surprised: bloody hell, ibet they have some stopping power, lol
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 05, 2009, 09:07:15 pm
what size brakes do you have on hurdy?

ive gone for 18" track wheels with r888s

They are TAR-OX 10 pots with 2 piece 330mm discs :happy2:

WHAT!!!! :surprised: bloody hell, ibet they have some stopping power, lol


....Sy, if you read any of Hurdy's threads about his big willy waving turbo plans you'll see that he's going to need all the stopping power he can get!

:happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 09:07:37 pm
what size brakes do you have on hurdy?

ive gone for 18" track wheels with r888s

They are TAR-OX 10 pots with 2 piece 330mm discs :happy2:




WHAT!!!! :surprised: bloody hell, ibet they have some stopping power, lol

Yup, they do :evilgrin:

I weighed mine with Conti's on - 3 stone 10.75lb = 23.97kg - so a bit less than what I remembered. :happy2:

Regarding the rotational unsprung v's sprung weight

There are various calculations which go from 3.5 to 6 times the unsprung weight to get the sprung weight equivalent. Even if you take the minimum multiplier you are still saving 3.5x whatever the wheel weights are :happy2:
Imagine trying to take 50kg out of the car, let alone 90+kg. It is still a big saving which reflects on all parts of the handling of the car :smiley:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 09:13:32 pm
Here are a few pics of the wheels.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FNewTeamDynamicsandR888s001.jpg&hash=32005b0d328e730da0d6e78f0af2ffb0d082c40d)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FNewTeamDynamicsandR888s003.jpg&hash=7853b866518eeaa661e0dc2649be6ad919491e10)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FNewTeamDynamicsandR888s005.jpg&hash=a7a33e56ab8f8b1c6bc462e13053d3600a305fdf)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FNewTeamDynamicsandR888s009.jpg&hash=3207fd3f436987cbe98895f8e5ff178d60543b3e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FNewTeamDynamicsandR888s010.jpg&hash=d57209b76f1bb2696b6780b82eff9d0158b8aae7)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FNewTeamDynamicsandR888s011.jpg&hash=77aaab3911fbcdd9aad3f2cbe7ba4876db9b796b)
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 05, 2009, 09:22:24 pm
^^^^
Are those TD's 17's, John? - They don't look so small. The tyre treads stop short though.

:happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 09:28:15 pm
^^^^
Are those TD's 17's, John? - They don't look so small. The tyre treads stop short though.

:happy2:

Yes they are 17's :happy2:

The tyre tread stops short for that extra grippynessnesssness :laugh:

Went out in them earlier and went around the roads around me that I know well.

All I can say is OMG!!! :surprised: :jumping: :driver: :notworthy:
These tyres are superb (in the dry anyway!!).

Sooooooo much more grip it is unreal. Pity normal tyres can't get this level of grip and still be good in the wet as well :laugh:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Janner_Sy on September 05, 2009, 09:34:18 pm
lets al hope these R1R toyos wil fill that gap :driver:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 05, 2009, 09:50:00 pm

lets al hope these R1R toyos wil fill that gap :driver:


....I've just read a review about those. It seems that their only downside is wear (to be expected in any track orientated tyre) and the need to keep above 32º F.

Otherwise highly rated.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 09:54:11 pm

lets al hope these R1R toyos wil fill that gap :driver:


....I've just read a review about those. It seems that their only downside is wear (to be expected in any track orientated tyre) and the need to keep above 32º F.

Otherwise highly rated.

No good as a winter tyre then....just like the R888's.

I've heard that the R888's wear pretty quickly and 3k miles is the most I can reasonably expect out of the fronts. :sad1:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Janner_Sy on September 05, 2009, 09:56:35 pm
my mates R26R got 7500 out of them incl a couple ring outings. although his wouldnt want to spin up as much as yours will
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 10:00:22 pm
my mates R26R got 7500 out of them incl a couple ring outings. although his wouldnt want to spin up as much as yours will

Too right! That damned traction light can still flicker giving it the full beans in 1st or 2nd. In 3rd the tryes used to light up easily in the dry, but with the R888's I can't budge them. Quaife should help next month :happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Janner_Sy on September 05, 2009, 10:03:24 pm
pretty much all high performance tyres are crap in the wintes, its easy to get heat in tyres, its keeping the heat in them that is hard.

I swap mine every winter for proper winter tyres, but we get proper snow over here in germany+if you crash over here and they see you have unsatisfactory tyres for the conditions you become liable immediately. That would be the same for R888s in the rain, so be aware of that when travelling over here.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Janner_Sy on September 05, 2009, 10:06:44 pm
would love to drive my car at Spa, ill do it someday. we tried to get a trackday at the hockenheim ring, thats only aabout another hour past the ring, but it was not cheap at all.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 05, 2009, 10:17:37 pm

I swap mine every winter for proper winter tyres, but we get proper snow over here in germany+if you crash over here and they see you have unsatisfactory tyres for the conditions you become liable immediately. That would be the same for R888s in the rain, so be aware of that when travelling over here.


....Achtung! Herr Hurdy!
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Janner_Sy on September 05, 2009, 10:22:41 pm
he'd be far from the only one though. your in the minority if you have normal tyres i find.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 05, 2009, 10:23:34 pm

I swap mine every winter for proper winter tyres, but we get proper snow over here in germany+if you crash over here and they see you have unsatisfactory tyres for the conditions you become liable immediately. That would be the same for R888s in the rain, so be aware of that when travelling over here.


....Achtung! Herr Hurdy!

Errr...yeah...err....I guess I'll have to see what the forecast is over there :laugh:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Peskarik on September 05, 2009, 11:34:26 pm



...
I've chosen 18's for my OZ Allegerita's rather than their 17's, for aesthetic reasons. My car is basically a 5-door fast road car which occasionally will do track. ...

I wouldn't call a GTI, even tuned one, a "fast" car. It is quick, yes, but not fast.  :wink:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 05, 2009, 11:38:10 pm
...
I've chosen 18's for my OZ Allegerita's rather than their 17's, for aesthetic reasons. My car is basically a 5-door fast road car which occasionally will do track. ...


I wouldn't call a GTI, even tuned one, a "fast" car. It is quick, yes, but not fast.  :wink:


....I should have written 'Fast Road' as I usually do. It's a term meaning it's a performance road car as opposed to a track or race car.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: jonnyc on September 06, 2009, 12:22:40 am



...
I've chosen 18's for my OZ Allegerita's rather than their 17's, for aesthetic reasons. My car is basically a 5-door fast road car which occasionally will do track. ...

I wouldn't call a GTI, even tuned one, a "fast" car. It is quick, yes, but not fast.  :wink:

I know what your saying, but compare 1/4 times of 'fast' cars and you will be quite surprised!
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: E30Dom on September 07, 2009, 02:07:12 pm
Nice wheels, I have the 18" version on mY R...

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv108%2Fax_vts_dom%2FCCMeets075.jpg&hash=bffc8e99faa77785d23a397964ecc9a8bb79dd6d)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv108%2Fax_vts_dom%2FDSC00104.jpg&hash=fa98693b1b1e7edabd0aedf8be5abca61e1ae658)

I want to get the R888's next time seeing as they are cheaper than the michelins!

Low

Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 07, 2009, 02:12:33 pm
^^^^
Yummy! I'm liking the look of that low R32, Low :notworthy:

I other pics posted on this site?

:happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 07, 2009, 04:50:21 pm
Nice silver R32 there :happy2:

I love the TDPR 1.2's and currently have 2 sets 18" for daily and 17" for the R888's for track. Can't bring myself to take the R888's off the car at the moment as the grip in the dry is AMAZING!!!! :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: E30Dom on September 07, 2009, 04:56:54 pm
I was thinking of getting the 225/40 R18 R888's but worried about rubbing, is the profile anymore more bolbous than normal 225/45 R17 tyres?
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 07, 2009, 05:09:13 pm
I was thinking of getting the 225/40 R18 R888's but worried about rubbing, is the profile anymore more bolbous than normal 225/45 R17 tyres?

I don't know about the 18" R888's, but the 17" ones still rub very slightly under maximum compression. I'm now having some custom adjustable top mounts made to dial in a few degrees of negative camber and have the arches rolled for good measure :happy2:

The static radius of the 18" R888's is slightly higher than the 17's (about 4mm). More importantly...like you asked...the wheels are slightly more bulbous than normal tyres, so you'd certainly be risking rubbing with the lowerage you currently have :happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: E30Dom on September 07, 2009, 05:31:18 pm
Cheers, That was what I was afraid of...
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: BMX on September 12, 2009, 01:22:29 pm
The Pescara's weigh around 26.5lb. With tyres the weight is 24.1kg as opposed to 19.3kg for the TD/R888 combo. That is a saving of 4.8kg per wheel = 19.2kg, which is the equivalent of taking around 96kg out of the sprung weight of the car.

were did 24.1kg come from?

i just weighed my pascara wheel and brand new michelin ps2 tyre together they were 20kg bang on. thats only 70g heavier than those  17s

so using that calculation 2.8kg, which is the equivalent of taking around 14kg out of the sprung weight of the car.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 12, 2009, 05:28:37 pm
The 24.1 kg came from my Pescara's with Conti's on.

Can I borrow your scales for my tdpr's please :laugh:

On your calculations and based on someone on here who weighed the Pescara's without tyres your 18" tyres only weigh 8kg, which is pretty damn light if it is spot on.

The R888's may weigh a little more than stock tyres, but certainly not 3kg more!
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 12, 2009, 06:23:01 pm
....

I used to be on The Committee of my local Sea Angling Club and have access to officially calibrated scales - I shall be weighing my OZ Alleggerita's when they arrive and comparing the weight with that stated on their tags.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: BMX on September 12, 2009, 06:41:27 pm
ok just weighed a front wheel on different scales and fitted with a dunlop sport maxx tyre and 60g of weights and it weighed in at 20.6kg  , weighed the original pascara and michelin tyre on these scales too and they are bang on 20kg again. surely 2 sets of scales cant be out, are you sure your scales are ok?

Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 12, 2009, 06:45:42 pm

surely 2 sets of scales cant be out, are you sure your scales are ok?


....100's, even 1,000's of scales can be out. The only scales which are reliably accurate are those which are regularly calibrated by an official body.
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Top Cat on September 12, 2009, 06:58:37 pm

surely 2 sets of scales cant be out, are you sure your scales are ok?


....100's, even 1,000's of scales can be out. The only scales which are reliably accurate are those which are regularly calibrated by an official body.

I agree with Robin ask any woman whether the scales work properly.  :scared:
Just thinking on though doesn't this make a mockery of the Vital corner weighting which is imperative on a properly set up fast road car.  :innocent:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: BMX on September 12, 2009, 07:03:04 pm
i weiged mine on a digital set and my mums oldie worldie set. iam gonna go to my dads and use his. i recon hurdy needs some new scales personaly  :laugh:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: RedRobin on September 12, 2009, 07:13:03 pm

surely 2 sets of scales cant be out, are you sure your scales are ok?


....100's, even 1,000's of scales can be out. The only scales which are reliably accurate are those which are regularly calibrated by an official body.

I agree with Robin ask any woman whether the scales work properly.  :scared:

Just thinking on though doesn't this make a mockery of the Vital corner weighting which is imperative on a properly set up fast road car.  :innocent:


....Love your women on scales analogy, TC :congrats: :laugh: Nice1

I was only making the point that 2 scales don't prove anything.

What's important about corner weighting (as I understand it) is the relative weights to each other at the corners. 

:happy2:
Title: Re: Track wheels finally here!
Post by: Hurdy on September 12, 2009, 08:12:33 pm
i weiged mine on a digital set and my mums oldie worldie set. iam gonna go to my dads and use his. i recon hurdy needs some new scales personaly  :laugh:

They aren't the best, but accurate enough when you look at the tyres and wheel advertised weight, so good enough for me :happy2: