MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Itguy on November 05, 2013, 06:18:53 am

Title: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Itguy on November 05, 2013, 06:18:53 am
Hi Everyone

We've only had our GTi about a month and it's always seemed to take an absolute age to warm up.

My commute to work is a bit of b road then dual carriageway + motorway for about 40 mins in the morning. I don't thrash it and it consistently takes c.20mins to get warm. It doesn't even move on the gauge for the first 5-6mins.

When the car gets to 90c it stays there, rock solid.

Surely this can't be right on a modern petrol engine?

I've done a bit of reading around and i'm thinking....

1) Replace coolant temp sensor
2) Possibly replace coolant (think I saw a post about VAG coolant helping their warm-up problems but can't see how??)
3) If those fail then new thermostat

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: bower on November 05, 2013, 06:44:15 am
seems to be common on theses cars, mine does the same as u
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: GTI power on November 05, 2013, 06:44:40 am
Thermostat :-)
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Human Joist on November 05, 2013, 08:05:34 am
It's fine they all are like this. I can get 9 miles to work and the temp has not reached optimum
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: OSB on November 05, 2013, 08:11:43 am
Hi Everyone

We've only had our GTi about a month and it's always seemed to take an absolute age to warm up.

My commute to work is a bit of b road then dual carriageway + motorway for about 40 mins in the morning. I don't thrash it and it consistently takes c.20mins to get warm. It doesn't even move on the gauge for the first 5-6mins.

When the car gets to 90c it stays there, rock solid.

Surely this can't be right on a modern petrol engine?



I've done a bit of reading around and i'm thinking....

1) Replace coolant temp sensor
2) Possibly replace coolant (think I saw a post about VAG coolant helping their warm-up problems but can't see how??)
3) If those fail then new thermostat

Thoughts?

I had a similar problem on mine, except that it never got up to temp properly - sometimes would on a motorway drive.
I changed the coolant sensor first as that was an easy DIY job and they are prone to failure. - about £35? Didn't make much difference except it read more accurately!
Eventually bit the bullet and got the stat changed. Looked at doing it myself - its do able - but difficult and time consuming - various links on here.
My Local Dealer took 3 hrs and that is book time. I spoke to the mechanic afterwards 'its a sod of a job for what it is!' They also found a couple of pipes that were getting perished, so changed those at the same time - no extra labour. Coolant change as well.
There is a marked difference is warm up time now. No, they not quick at all to get up to temp! I know mine is all ok but it take 3 -4 miles of B roads to get there. But the performance is better and fuel consumption has improved.
GTI ownership joys!

Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Itguy on November 05, 2013, 08:37:42 am
Ok, can't believe mine is right as it took 21 mins and 15 miles to get warm today.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: xjay1337 on November 05, 2013, 09:06:38 am
Mine takes a very long time as well.
I drove 8-9 miles before it was up to temperature.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Veee-dubber on November 05, 2013, 09:28:03 am
The gauge only reflects water temp, oil temp will be longer again will it not?
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: xjay1337 on November 05, 2013, 09:37:07 am
I would suspect it would be fairly similar.
Mk5 GTIs have oil temp sensors you can check with VCDS.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: john87 on November 05, 2013, 09:52:55 am
Sounds like a stuck thermostat, my R gets to 90 degrees (water) after about three/four miles (winter driving). The oil on the other hand.. when my water reached 90 degrees, I checked the oil temp via highline computer and it was a mere 56 degrees... and to think a lot of people think its safe to 'boot it' once the water's up to temp  :scared:
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: flashp on November 05, 2013, 10:28:23 am
I drive 6 miles to work, after 2 1/2 the coolant is at normal and after 5 1/2 the oil temp matches the coolant temp, according to the Polar display interface.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: xjay1337 on November 05, 2013, 11:53:34 am
Sounds like a stuck thermostat, my R gets to 90 degrees (water) after about three/four miles (winter driving). The oil on the other hand.. when my water reached 90 degrees, I checked the oil temp via highline computer and it was a mere 56 degrees... and to think a lot of people think its safe to 'boot it' once the water's up to temp  :scared:

Your R is a TSI engine, very different.
And who boots it the minute the temp gauge gets to 90.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: rich83 on November 05, 2013, 12:05:39 pm
Sounds like a stuck thermostat, my R gets to 90 degrees (water) after about three/four miles (winter driving). The oil on the other hand.. when my water reached 90 degrees, I checked the oil temp via highline computer and it was a mere 56 degrees... and to think a lot of people think its safe to 'boot it' once the water's up to temp  :scared:

Your R is a TSI engine, very different.
And who boots it the minute the temp gauge gets to 90.


Nope.... The R is TFSI mate... Same (roughly) lump as ED30/S3
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Scottymon on November 05, 2013, 12:50:56 pm
Sounds like a stuck thermostat, my R gets to 90 degrees (water) after about three/four miles (winter driving). The oil on the other hand.. when my water reached 90 degrees, I checked the oil temp via highline computer and it was a mere 56 degrees... and to think a lot of people think its safe to 'boot it' once the water's up to temp  :scared:

Your R is a TSI engine, very different.
And who boots it the minute the temp gauge gets to 90.


Nope.... The R is TFSI mate... Same (roughly) lump as ED30/S3

Thought I was going mad thinking it was a TFSI.  IIRC the brand new 300bhp S3 is TFSI too... they aren't putting a lot of confidence in TSI are they...
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: flashp on November 05, 2013, 01:28:25 pm
I wouldn't know in this case, but sometimes these things are based around emissions etc.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: xjay1337 on November 05, 2013, 02:05:40 pm
Sounds like a stuck thermostat, my R gets to 90 degrees (water) after about three/four miles (winter driving). The oil on the other hand.. when my water reached 90 degrees, I checked the oil temp via highline computer and it was a mere 56 degrees... and to think a lot of people think its safe to 'boot it' once the water's up to temp  :scared:

Your R is a TSI engine, very different.
And who boots it the minute the temp gauge gets to 90.


Nope.... The R is TFSI mate... Same (roughly) lump as ED30/S3

Thought I was going mad thinking it was a TFSI.  IIRC the brand new 300bhp S3 is TFSI too... they aren't putting a lot of confidence in TSI are they...

Well that makes me out to be an idiot doesn't it!!
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Itguy on November 05, 2013, 02:11:36 pm
I thought stuck thermo too.

Oh goody, time to look for a DIY thread then. I know it's not a quick job.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Scottymon on November 05, 2013, 02:57:35 pm
It's a long job.

Overview: http://volkswagen.workshop-manuals.com/golf-mk5/index.php?id=5050

Removing Alternator: http://volkswagen.workshop-manuals.com/golf-mk5/index.php?id=1467
Removing Coolant Pipework: http://volkswagen.workshop-manuals.com/golf-mk5/index.php?id=5049

It's definitely the last thing I would try. :happy2:




Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: xjay1337 on November 05, 2013, 03:07:00 pm
I thought stuck thermo too.

Oh goody, time to look for a DIY thread then. I know it's not a quick job.

If your temp gauge hits 90 and stays there it's not a stuck thermo.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: rob-gti on November 05, 2013, 03:31:48 pm
My temp gauge hits 90 in stop/go traffic in town, but always goes back down to 75 on the open road...
I picked up a new thermo from the stealers but im reluctant to go fitting it after seeing the DIY threads, it looks like an awful job  :sad1:
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: xjay1337 on November 05, 2013, 03:40:52 pm
Then it could be that, or the Temp sensor
From reading it, it doesn't sound too bad.
Remove alternator and some pipes, takes 20 minutes to swap alternator.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Scottymon on November 05, 2013, 03:50:45 pm
Then it could be that, or the Temp sensor
From reading it, it doesn't sound too bad.
Remove alternator and some pipes, takes 20 minutes to swap alternator.  :happy2:



I'm going to take the 20 min challenge when my alternator arrives. :laugh:
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Itguy on November 05, 2013, 04:14:23 pm
On my way to work it did get to 90c but on the way to it got to 90c the  dropped to 85c then climbed back to 90c and was solid there.

I can see this is ok as that's what you'd expect the thermo to do but I wondered if it's just not fully closing or something silly like that meaning it's taking ages to warm up?

Sounds like coolant temp sensor first though as it's easy, presumably I won't need vcds to reset anything once I fit a like for like replacement (I've got no Engine light or anything).

I haven't checked to see what coolant it has in it either. If it's got blue (ie wrong) stuff in, could that cause the problem too? I wonder if a g12 coolant change may help too??
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Scottymon on November 07, 2013, 06:35:45 pm
Then it could be that, or the Temp sensor
From reading it, it doesn't sound too bad.
Remove alternator and some pipes, takes 20 minutes to swap alternator.  :happy2:



I'm going to take the 20 min challenge when my alternator arrives. :laugh:

I failed miserably Jay!  But in my defence the new Alternator was a Bosch item and the loom needed to be faffed about with to get it to fit properly... all good now though, gave it a some nice new oil too. :happy2:

Noticed that the Wishbone bushes looked fecked :( Is that a difficult job?
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: xjay1337 on November 08, 2013, 04:13:57 pm
Wishbone bushes is 15 minutes a side to remove , total side for both jobs an hour if you can get it up in the air.

How long did it take you on the alternator bud?
Glad you got it sorted haha :laugh:
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: OSB on November 08, 2013, 05:22:59 pm
On my way to work it did get to 90c but on the way to it got to 90c the  dropped to 85c then climbed back to 90c and was solid there.

I can see this is ok as that's what you'd expect the thermo to do but I wondered if it's just not fully closing or something silly like that meaning it's taking ages to warm up?

Sounds like coolant temp sensor first though as it's easy, presumably I won't need vcds to reset anything once I fit a like for like replacement (I've got no Engine light or anything).

I haven't checked to see what coolant it has in it either. If it's got blue (ie wrong) stuff in, could that cause the problem too? I wonder if a g12 coolant change may help too??

I have 'timed' mine over the last week or so. The warm up time is dependant on ambient temperature. It has been taking about 2 1/2 - 3 miles to get to 90 with outside temp of 11 - 12 deg. This morning it was 5 deg and took 4 miles. Warmish air coming up to the screen after about 1 mile.
MUCH quicker than before I had the thermostat changed though.
I don't know what the blue coolant is, but if its not G12 you could be letting yourself in for longer term internal  corrosion problems. Best to get that flushed and changed. I doubt it is causing any warm up problems though. The VW G12 is 'supposed' to contain a wetting agent that can affect the heat transfer properties for the good.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Human Joist on November 08, 2013, 05:54:23 pm
G12 has been replaced by G12+ then again by G13 I think. Left work at midnight yesterday and I drove gently (cold engine job) and it took nearly 9 miles to get to 90. Every VW or Skoda or Audi I have had does this. The newer the car the longer it seems to warm up. But once it's reaches the appropriate temp it does not move again. At all.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Scottymon on November 08, 2013, 08:15:00 pm
Wishbone bushes is 15 minutes a side to remove , total side for both jobs an hour if you can get it up in the air.

How long did it take you on the alternator bud?
Glad you got it sorted haha :laugh:

Probably an hour in the end if I'm truthful, the Bosch item has a raised wiring retainer thing so you can't swap the post over from the Valeo unit; it fits but makes it's too wide so the wiring won't stretch to plug in - so had to dig around for a 5mm bolt for the retainer and cut the cable ties off the wiring so that it could be routed from beneath for the Bosch unit then re-cable tie... blah blah, faff, faff, lol - if it was a direct Valeo replacement I could probably do it in 30 mins now.  I'd defo consider doing the thermostat when and if it goes. :happy2:

For a VW Tech who's skilled in doing these jobs, to bill 4 hours for the thermostat seems like robbery... a lot of of tea drinking there me thinks.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Human Joist on November 08, 2013, 11:54:34 pm
Checked mine on the drive to work just. 4 degrees outside. Drove gently asninalways do when cold. 9 miles to work. Not full warm got to about 75-80. I would say this is usual and not worry.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Itguy on November 09, 2013, 07:08:08 pm
Ok I've decided I'm going to change ours as it just doesn't seem right to me and there are too many conflicting reports of people saying "5 mins" to people saying it's the same as mine.

A fresh new thermostat will at least rule it out if it's still slow to warm up.

I'm particularly concerned as the car is for my wife and her commute is only about 4 or 5 miles and 10-12 minutes so I really don't want the car to be still really cold when she gets there as it will drink fuel and be forever running rich.

I'm going to read the docs posted above but any practical tips in doing this job? Someone mentioned removing the inlet manifold might help??
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Itguy on November 09, 2013, 07:25:44 pm
Also - can someone check if part number 06F121111F is the right one for my 05 plate early GTI?

Does anyone also know if these thermostat housings have ever had any revisions (a bit like the DV's have?)

I just wonder if my car has an early version that had problems that was then replaced by a revised version on the later cars, hence the different replies from people.
Title: Re: Car taking an age to warm up
Post by: Human Joist on November 09, 2013, 07:35:25 pm
Don't forget though were only talking about water temp. And the water temp won't get hot until the engine warms up as thermo won't open. If it opens too early in effect you will be taking the heat from the oil and engine and cooling it therefore stopping the engine reaching its correct operating temperature quickly enough which is the reason I would not worry if the thermo switch opens straight away the engine will have to be running for a lot longer in order to get the operating temp so it's less likely to heat up on your journey. Sorry I should have explained further. It does not matter if the water takes longer to warm up as long as the oil and engine don't get too hot as a consequence. As long as your engine is not overheating the thermo should be working.

At least this is my take on how it all works.