MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: carljackson on May 13, 2014, 06:23:09 pm
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Question to air riders
I have been considering buying air ride for my car, is it really worth the £3000 or should I do something better with my money
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You're going to get very mixed reviews on this.
Some people will be against it and say its definitely not worth it, but the others will be all for it.
Me? I'd say yeah its worth it. Had it on my last car, and currently building my set up for the golf.
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I've had it for 3.5 years with 2 diff setups, it's a PITA and happy to be on V3s again. Air & Coils both have pros and cons.
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I think it looks horrific
3k could buy you some mint coilovers, ARBs and probs anti lift kit
And it would actually handle NICE!!! :happy2:
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Deffo the wrong place to ask that sort of question. People will give you a one-sided view with out experince.
But..... it can be find cheaper than 3k you just run the risk from second hand parts being faulty
Que comments on how you should buy top spec KW/HnR coilies
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I put air ride on last summer... Removed it in the winter. Pretty much hated every minute of it. Obviously this is my own opinion, some people would never go back etc etc
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Coilovers FTW! :happy2:
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I'd rather slash my eye balls so I don't have to look at cars that are 2mm from the ground! No other reasoning behind my extreme view, purely my own opinion! :drinking:
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Really it's down to your own opinion, Coils and Air both have their pro's and cons, personally I don't see the point in air unless your going to get your wheel fitments bang on really, but it's your car and your money so whichever suits your needs best.
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I think it looks horrific
3k could buy you some mint coilovers, ARBs and probs anti lift kit
And it would actually handle NICE!!! :happy2:
Have you driven a car on air ride?
Mine handles very well thank you very much. Better than my old golf which had coilovers and uprated bushes and uprated front and rear roll bars.
It's not to everyones tastes but i like mine. it's trouble free for the most part and i can get ANYWHERE basically i want to be.
i think cars where people attempt to lower them, but they end up looking standard height is pointless. but i wouldn't have a go at anyone else for that.
if you're having to ask is it worth it then it's probably not.
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Air ride is poop..... if you get air ride you have failed in life.
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:popcornsoda:
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i'd probably agree saying if you're having to ask then probably not. Personally i think it was the best solution for me, wanted to go pretty low, but i have far too many speed bumps around my area to go with coils. And i wanted to go down more of a show route than big performance. It's really you're choice, i have performance air bags on my car, still have my anti roll bar and it handles better than when it was standard.
Just a dangerous question to ask as people will have a passionate response for both sides. Both are good, but you need to think about what is best for your use, and what route you want to take your car, after all you'll be the one seeing it driving it etc every day
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exactly that deago!
people who bitch about air ride stupid are either trolling (like dick wiggler), are not real car enthusiasts (childish) or are jealous that they can't afford it for themselves.
i know the last bit is true because i used to be like it myself. "haha bags are for fags coils are way better" but honestly i could just not afford it at the time. i see this often throughout the scene... hates going to hate and all of that.
having lived with them for a year i can honestly say bags are better than coilovers in my view for what i want out of my car.. a set of airlift performance struts will be more than a match for on anything this side of KW V3 / Bilstein ps8. the coilovers certainly won't ride as comfortably especialyl when at low heights - perhaps right at the very very top end of the coilover range (eg £4-5k coilover units, remote reserviour Ohlins units etc) you will find a minor improvement in handling but on the road and doing trackdays you won't notice this and any theoretical improvement will not be worth the exponetially increased cost.
you can lower your car to whatever height you want without needed to worry about catching your undertray or splitter or tricky driveways, as you can raise your car whenever you want
people make "performance builds" and some people make "show builds" for exhibitions, shows and what not.. there is no right or wrong way to modify a car. it's all a matter of personal preferences and your own vision and goals of what you want.
i don't personally like, for examples, vauxhalls - but i can all at the same time talk to an owner of a vauxhall and appreciate the work someone has done to his or her car. even if i don't approve of it in my head. you can step back and be like, you know mate that's a tidy car, not to my tastes but you've done it well. props to you.
this is where you seperate the true car enthusiasts who appreciate cars in general and the idiots who expect everyone to build a car how they would do it.
air is not for everyone and that's fine.
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I'm saying the same sh:t as others...members that like it will tell u it's worth every penny & members that don't like it will say waste of money etc etc...I think end of the day it's up to you mate
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I'm not for or against against air / coilovers at the moment as i haven't experienced either but this video might help you in your decisions as i found it quite interesting after reading so many reviews for / against air over coilovers vice versa..
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Pretty much all my views been said.
I love my air, and can't imagine going back to coils now. Although at times I'd love to run a set of still static coils as they go mega low. But with numerous speed bumps on my street it just isn't practicable.
Only you can say if it's worth it or not. If you have the money and can afford it give it a go.
I also get sick of people saying it doesn't handle, you can't go fast.
I give my car as much grief as I did with it on AP coils and feel no difference.
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Personally not a massive fan of air ride - sometimes I think it is done to death and also if you are entering competitions these days you have no chance of winning unless you have airride
However, on the right car, right height, right wheels, the car can look awesome
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Personally not a massive fan of air ride - sometimes I think it is done to death and also if you are entering competitions these days you have no chance of winning unless you have airride
However, on the right car, right height, right wheels, the car can look awesome
Winner of Mk5s at Westside show 2013 was a static car.
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Only problem with this sort of thing is if you're having to try to justify it to yourself then maybe it isn't for you. Personally I don't go for that look but I can understand why some do and usually the cars that have those setups look superb.
Its a lot of money but if you want to maybe start trying to get into shows then I think its a good idea, you just have to ask yourself whether or not you personally will get enough out of it to justify your investment. I have mates who constantly talk about how much I spend on my car and they simply laugh in disbelief when I total up how much its cost me as they just don't see the value/return in it but for me its as much a hobby/passtime as it is a method of transportation.
However if thats the look you want and you want to get into showing your car then it would be worth it, although you need to prepare for the fact that the costs wont stop at the airride, you need to make sure the pain and interior are spot on, the engine bay etc are all immaculate and that doesn't come without its costs either.
I also don't see why people are suggesting coilovers because you'll never match the look/versatility of an air ride.
Like I said though its only you who can decide if its worth it, weigh up the cost against what YOU will get out of it.
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Each to there own im not sure how people actually think it looks good imo.. Plus it can weight a ton and will never handle as well as a good set of coilovers
Everyone has there own taste in modding
Show car = air ride
Performance = coilovers
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Each to there own im not sure how people actually think it looks good imo.. Plus it can weight a ton and will never handle as well as a good set of coilovers
Everyone has there own taste in modding
Show car = air ride
Performance = coilovers
That is just not how it is though and what really pisses me off.
What experience have you had with air ride. how can you possibly justify that sweeping statement.
i have owned two mk5s one with air ride and no front roll bar and one with coilovers and decent roll bars and the air handles better in every way and is also far more comfortable.
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Each to there own im not sure how people actually think it looks good imo.. Plus it can weight a ton and will never handle as well as a good set of coilovers
Everyone has there own taste in modding
Show car = air ride
Performance = coilovers
That is just not how it is though and what really pisses me off.
What experience have you had with air ride. how can you possibly justify that sweeping statement.
i have owned two mk5s one with air ride and no front roll bar and one with coilovers and decent roll bars and the air handles better in every way and is also far more comfortable.
No need to get really pissed off
For track enthusiasts its not ideal.. You wont see a proper track car/fast road car with airride it wont compare to a proper set of coilovers with linear springs and its heavy.. For the average car then yeah it would probaly do the job on the road
Everyone has there own taste in modding round here airride is usually sat in mcdonalds car park on the sump
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Air ride is slightly heavier OVERALL but you will not notice the extra weight. You're talking maybe 10-15k max extra weight over the rear axle - Not noticeable.
The suspension units are actually lighter. In the case of the mustang on the speedhunters link below the air struts are 7.5 lbs each lighter.
The management and compressors and tanks are what increase the weight along with the braided air lines. But it's a pointless discussion because as mentioned you won't notice.
air is linear as well they are fixed rate springs, obviously spring rate will change slightly at different heights but this is true of any coilover suspension unit as well.
people like you assume air ride handles like crap when you have no experience of it.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/11/double-rtr-get-air-lift/
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Jay... that video is null and void.... its posted by "Air Lift Company"
They are not gonna show it in bad light are they?
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Got any other links?
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20+ kg or more is alot to add to a track car where you want to save weight! As i said ok for a for average road car.. Theres a reason its not used on race cars.. Anyone after every second on the track will laugh if you told them air ride will handle better then there track setup coilovers.. But as said im sure its fine for road and the odd roundabout
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One thing I will say, coilovers are definately, 100%!more relieable. You'll never burst a bag, or have a sticky valve, or flatten your battery, or have an air leak woth coilovers. Any garage can work on them too.
I know a few trackday organisers that forbid air cars to go track.
Theres also the fact that the actual bag itself is perishable, so will need regular checks and potential replacement.
I think the air ride look is good, and I'd love to have them fitted to mine as the roads round here are toilet, but in my opinion the cost to value ratio isn't there yet. They need to be sub £1500 to be worth it. £3k gets you some nice coils and a BBK, a car on air wont know which way you went.
Not sure how removing the ARB improves the handlng either, someone needs to pass that onto the oem's so they can save some money!
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Air ride is definitely worth it and is now being proven to handle better than coilovers. I'm sure people are going to disagrees but there's been test run.
Running air isn't cheap though. Full accuair kits come to just under 3 grand. It's personably preference but it's so much more comfortable than coilovers
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I'm sure there's now even drift cars running airlift kits.
Saying coilovers will handle better only high end ones. Actual race coilovers maybe not what most people have even on there 'track cars'
Also saying bags are perishable items. Because nobody's coilover seals have ever gone....
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Pikey -
Yes but we're not talking about out and out race cars.
At the end of the day it's a Golf Mk5. Not a Caterham. If a car is 1380 kg or 1360kg you are not going to notice. You can be all about the "theoretical" improvements if you want but the truth is you're not going to notice a 20kg difference over the rear axle of a Golf.
Maybe people at the track who would laugh do so because they have no idea what air actually drives like. Like yourself :happy2:
Karl -
You are right, you can have more issues with air bags. However the airbags themselves are more durable than a regular coilover, if you look at a coilover unit after 2 years on a car and then an air suspension unit, the air unit would be in a better condition.
As I'm sure you're aware, buses, lorries, trucks, and some vans now are coming with air suspension and these vehicles do hundreds of thousands of miles. At wheels day there was an old Ford hot-rod which was on a 18 year old air suspension system.
I know of a TT running 10 year old Rayvern air suspension and the components were fine there was only one small air leak TANK SIDE (so not from the air bags themselves).
You can still get a snapped spring on a coilover and you'd be in exactly the same situation.
The air lift bags are valved to work without a roll bar so that's irrelevant. You can get Performance Airlift struts which have drop link mounts for a rollbar as well - the whole "you don't have a rollbar" argument is a bit old and pointless! :booty:
There is also great discussion on what the true benefits of an anti roll bar are, as you are in effect taking your 4 independant suspension units and making them not independent.
McLaren MP4-12c doesn't have any rollbars at all.... neither does the P1...
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I work on trains, i've seen 30 year old bogies with airbags. :wink:
I just don't think they command the current premium. But thats how things work, as an early adoptor you pay more, as the technology becomes more commoditised it becomes cheaper the cost comes down. My personal opinion is that air bags aren't work 3x as much as decent coilovers, however other people's opinion differs and I wouldn't say their wrong.
Also, techincally the 12c/650S/P1 doesn't have a ARB because the linked hydraulic system is designed to simulate an ARB when it needs to. Same as the E-diff/brake steer system - its all electronic.
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Catherham, golf or metro doesnt matter
Its not that i dont know what im talking about its just common sense.. Airride is not used/considered when after full performance on the track or a dedicated track car.. And that 20kg+ or probaly more is alot of weight to add for something what doesnt have any benifits when you have worked spent money to get the car as light as possible..
Anyway the op isnt interested in whats its like on the track so its irellavant
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There ye go then, reliable.
Airbag struts themselves are not that expensive. It's the management. You're looking at around £850for a pair of Airlift Performance front struts.
These come with 30 point damping adjustment and fully camber adjustable top mounts.
The rear bags and Airlift Shocks are £800, however the bags themselves are more reasonable at about £300, and you can match these to any other dampers you want. The airlift rear shocks offer 30 points of damping and also have threaded stainless steel bodies.
So at worst you're looking at £1650 for the suspension unit.
Compare that to some Bilstiens or H&R or KW at a similar price and there's not going to be any difference in performance. Arguably the Airlift kits offer better value as they come with camber adjustable top mounts, which the coilovers do not come with as standard.
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not for me
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There ye go then, reliable.
Airbag struts themselves are not that expensive. It's the management. You're looking at around £850for a pair of Airlift Performance front struts.
These come with 30 point damping adjustment and fully camber adjustable top mounts.
The rear bags and Airlift Shocks are £800, however the bags themselves are more reasonable at about £300, and you can match these to any other dampers you want. The airlift rear shocks offer 30 points of damping and also have threaded stainless steel bodies.
So at worst you're looking at £1650 for the suspension unit.
Compare that to some Bilstiens or H&R or KW at a similar price and there's not going to be any difference in performance. Arguably the Airlift kits offer better value as they come with camber adjustable top mounts, which the coilovers do not come with as standard.
.......but it still looks sh*t
Lol :booty:
Try and justify it all you want, if you want performance, go for coils or springs and uprated dampers
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Each to their own. Has it's advantages from a styling point of view, if you like that kind of thing. As with any type of suspension setup good kits will probably handle quite well and some may handle like sh*t.
Definitely not for me but style, handling & comfort are totally subjective & individual preference.
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Each to there own im not sure how people actually think it looks good imo.. Plus it can weight a ton and will never handle as well as a good set of coilovers
Everyone has there own taste in modding
Show car = air ride
Performance = coilovers
That is just not how it is though and what really pisses me off.
What experience have you had with air ride. how can you possibly justify that sweeping statement.
i have owned two mk5s one with air ride and no front roll bar and one with coilovers and decent roll bars and the air handles better in every way and is also far more comfortable.
round here airride is usually sat in mcdonalds car park on the sump
Hahahah :wink: true that mate. Just typical chav cars lol.
Just don't understand how anyone can like it
There's a polo gti at work on air and it looks crap, would rather drive a ford Ka.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi368%2Fbetty_swollox%2F63c8783762502d1c7f3410dc5c7ad03a_zps6b532240.jpg&hash=3d7aa3fea43053206270bf5f1ad3f7f9452d1f15)
Rushing down to McDonald's :happy2:
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Loving this thread :signLOL:
Each to their own, but in the few months of owning air ride I had a bag nearly burst on me. a faulty front flexi pipe in to the strut that dumped the o/s/f to the floor every time I went out to it in the morning, and a crap seal in the manifold which led to the compressor kicking in every single damn time I started it up. Absolute pain in the arse. (though it did look bad ass).
The relief of getting rid of it pretty much summed it all up for me. I now get in to my car every time not having to wonder what's going to happen next with it.
A pic of the bag that nearly let go...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fstuart_gt%2FOV55EZT%2Fnull_zps254303f3.jpg&hash=45e407ba70d164887d2f3b31327d55c88a9f6100)
For me though, saying I had it, fitted it myself and got the T-shirt is pretty cool though.
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Air ride is definitely worth it and is now being proven to handle better than coilovers. I'm sure people are going to disagrees but there's been test run.
Running air isn't cheap though. Full accuair kits come to just under 3 grand. It's personably preference but it's so much more comfortable than coilovers
Ain't yours bust George? Can't even drive it I remember reading?
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I can't say whether or not they are worth £3k but most vehicles on air-ride look STUNNING :drool:
They will nearly always draw a crowd. :happy2:
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One for the Rustlers advert.
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Air ride is for shows .... Just like these high performance stage 2/3/whatever cars are build for racing to 70 as fast as you can... But will never see a track.
Just as pointless ....
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Never see a track? :fighting2: :booty:
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Never see a track? :fighting2: :booty:
Not all of them... Most
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:evilgrin:
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There's a polo gti at work on air and it looks crap, would rather drive a ford Ka.
hahaha go on then.
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:grouphug:
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For the price it's not for me......however
If a car is aired with the wheels tucked with a SMALL amount of camber it looks decent..
If a car is aired with shed loads of camber, spaced out and stretched tyres it looks awful...but that's my opinion.
Accuair's Instagram has some quality air'd VAGs...A5s look class air'd
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Just gonna leave this here....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291144481912
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Just gonna leave this here....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291144481912
f*ck that R looks good.
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Just gonna leave this here....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291144481912
:sick:
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It's an interesting debate.
My personal opinion is I can appreciate air practical yes, also a novelty for the owners of air and if I was to build a large saloon/estate car I would fit it.
But to put it on a "hot hatch" :sick:
And before you air peeps start crying think of it this way if air handles so well why don't btcc, dtm,lemans series ect ect run air?
I also think air is a bit of a lie.
If you sell you car being x low but then have to raise it up to drive home your car isn't that low.
But it is very practical.
On a performance car coils
Family whip air
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I agree that this will be a back-n-forth issue.
I would summarize it like this.
Bags for extreme looks and a daily driver with mild sportiness in the curvy's. With the addition of a frame notch: https://www.google.com/search?q=mkv+gti+frame+notch&newwindow=1&client=firefox-a&hs=1De&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hUN3U6uSCtHYoASrvIDoDQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1392&bih=634
Coils for doing business. Do you know of any winning race cars on bags?