MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: sub39h on August 10, 2015, 08:14:40 am
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I'm travelling to the USA at the end of August so I was planning on bringing back a Unibrace XB. Then it occurred to me - we are overdue a group buy on the Unibrace products so I was wondering if there was any interest in another one? I've contacted Bruce in the USA and asked him what sort of discount we would get - hopefully he'll get back to me soon. If there is enough interest on here then I'll ask one of the mods/admins and set one up formally.
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I could be interested :happy2:
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Great stuff. The more support the better!
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interested depending on price.
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interested depending on price.
+1, more interested in the UB though.
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I would be interested depending on prices keep on looking for a second hand one but it never comes up :-(. I'd be more interested in the XB
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interested depending on price.
+1, more interested in the UB though.
I want the unibrace rear under ones. The front one seems to go BELOW the subframe, no thanks reducing clearance even more!
Inside I think this XB would be good and then I can get the rear strut bar for the harnesses :fighting: :fighting: :jumping:
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+1. was looking to buy this soon anyway. if cheaper on group buy im all for it
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Ok great. I'm still waiting on Bruce to email me back so once I have a price I'll let you guys know :happy2:
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What do you guys think of this? http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/121428575016?_mwBanner=1
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interested depending on price.
+1, more interested in the UB though.
I want the unibrace rear under ones. The front one seems to go BELOW the subframe, no thanks reducing clearance even more!
Inside I think this XB would be good and then I can get the rear strut bar for the harnesses :fighting: :fighting: :jumping:
Jay - any idea where a rear strut bar can be purchased from? cheers :happy2:
I'm waiting on delivery of an XB & UB, but would also like a rear brace bar too
I'd be tempted with the group buy price for an RB :happy2:
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No idea mate :/
Thinking I may have to get something made up as part of a half cage.
I have seen this.
http://www.eurosportacc.com/products/euro-sport-rear-x-brace-vw-mk4-mk5-mk6?variant=273098142
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No idea mate :/
Thinking I may have to get something made up as part of a half cage.
I have seen this.
http://www.eurosportacc.com/products/euro-sport-rear-x-brace-vw-mk4-mk5-mk6?variant=273098142
cheers mate :happy2:
Seen that one before and was a little surprised by the shipping charges. It was also fits in the same location as the XB.
I really want a bar to go from strut to strut so to speak - that could be used for harnesses (if possible?), in addition to the XB.
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Ok team I've had word back from Bruce. Please find the prices below. I've also asked him if he'd be willing to include the Mk7 chassis XBQ at a discount price and I'm awaiting his reply.
For a UK Group Buy price we would require a 20 piece total order (not counting spacer kits or nutsert tools). The Individual prices would be as follows (inc. shipping):
UNIbrace XB/XB-3/UBQ* US$360.00
UNIbrace UB US$380.00
UNIbrace RB US$280.00
M8 HD Nutsert Tool US$35.00
Spacer Kit US$35.00
* the UBQ is the Mk7 chassis under body bracing.
If people could indicate their continued/discontinued interest so I know whether to trouble the mods regarding setting up a group buy. If those active on other forums could spread the word it would be greatly appreciated as well.
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cheers sub :happy2:
savings look decent for the XB
However, I'm not blown away by the $14 saving on the RB (which happens to be the only one I'd need).....
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Does the MK5 really get anything out of this??
Genuine question...it never struck me as a wobbly chassis.
Got this from the Unibrace site:
Profile
Bruce Levin, an architect, product designer, and principal of Studiolevin in San Francisco, California, USA, is the designer of UNIbrace products. A long time Volkwagen enthusiast, Bruce has owned two MkII GTI’s, a MkIV GTI 337, and currently drives a MkIV .:R32. UNIbrace was started as an effort to combine the highest quality product design and fabrication, the love of the grassroots VW community, and on and off track spirited driving.
Noticed straight away he drives a MK4 which is noted for it's poor (by comparisson) chassis :grin: which is offset by 4 wheel drive.
Or am I missing something I need to know about??? :popcornsoda:
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Does the MK5 really get anything out of this??
Genuine question...it never struck me as a wobbly chassis.
Got this from the Unibrace site:
Profile
Bruce Levin, an architect, product designer, and principal of Studiolevin in San Francisco, California, USA, is the designer of UNIbrace products. A long time Volkwagen enthusiast, Bruce has owned two MkII GTI’s, a MkIV GTI 337, and currently drives a MkIV .:R32. UNIbrace was started as an effort to combine the highest quality product design and fabrication, the love of the grassroots VW community, and on and off track spirited driving.
Noticed straight away he drives a MK4 which is noted for it's poor (by comparisson) chassis :grin: which is offset by 4 wheel drive.
Or am I missing something I need to know about??? :popcornsoda:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,48722.0.html
I'm personally expecting it to act like a stiffer rear anti roll bar and make the car feel more neutral.
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I have a UB style brace (exact copy and cost only £130 in this country) and no it's not a noticeable difference with or without it. Yes, It all helps I suppose but paying whatever price Unibrace charge.....errrr no. I do only have the one brace so maybe with the others that may change.
:happy2:
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Does the MK5 really get anything out of this??
Genuine question...it never struck me as a wobbly chassis.
Got this from the Unibrace site:
Profile
Bruce Levin, an architect, product designer, and principal of Studiolevin in San Francisco, California, USA, is the designer of UNIbrace products. A long time Volkwagen enthusiast, Bruce has owned two MkII GTI’s, a MkIV GTI 337, and currently drives a MkIV .:R32. UNIbrace was started as an effort to combine the highest quality product design and fabrication, the love of the grassroots VW community, and on and off track spirited driving.
Noticed straight away he drives a MK4 which is noted for it's poor (by comparisson) chassis :grin: which is offset by 4 wheel drive.
Or am I missing something I need to know about??? :popcornsoda:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,48722.0.html
I'm personally expecting it to act like a stiffer rear anti roll bar and make the car feel more neutral.
Do you have an anti roll bar kit fitted? By that I mean front and rear.
If not then I'd consider that instead. It does make a very real and measurable difference.
More neutral may mean you need to look at roll reduction and adjusting out understeer with some appropriate geometry hardware.
Not meaning to rubbish your idea or anything but it sounded like you were after resolving an issue but I'm not sure this will give you what you're looking for. :happy2:
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Already have a rear ARB. My old coils were aligned according to Alex's settings but they failed and I've not had a chance to get back to him after my new ones were fitted. Going back to him next week tho!
I still feel the XB will be a worthwhile investment. Not 100% on the others but I'm quite keen on trying for XB. They seem to get good reviews.
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When you say aligned do you mean ride height? Or did they do corner weighting for you?
And failed...do you mean broken springs?
I'd have to say a front ARB to compliment your rear (rear stiffer than front) and maybe some adjustable ball joints or top plates (Ground Control) to get some negative camber around -2 degrees may have more impact.
Tyres have a lot to do with it as well. Michelin PSS are a revelation, designed for track use as well as road.
I shall be interested to hear your opinion! :happy2:
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Yeah I had Weitecs before (which are no longer made I don't think) and a front coil snapped. For the price of a replacement I just decided to get a new kit.
The ride height has mostly been dictated by looks and usability tbh. I can get in an out of car parks but the car is suitably low without looking like some sort of trailer queen. (Sorry but i despise that slammed look.)
Alex set up the alignment to custom settings and when he did the first time it was like night and day the way the car felt. He didn't fit my new B14s and as much as I am fond of the specialists who did I'm not convinced they know their PQ35 chassis cars like Alex does and so they were only able to put the alignment back to stock. I'm hoping when Alex puts it back to his settings I will see another leap in grin factor!
Anyway in regards to the Unibrace, I reckon stiffening the back will bring about some improvements to the handling and stiffness so I'd like to give it a go.
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Be sure to review your thoughts here, I'm interested to hear. :happy2:
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While the MkV platform is stiffer than the MkIV (as the MkIV was stiffer than MkIII, etc.) they all suffer from the inherent weakness of a hatchback [open shoe box] shape. Additionally, we have many customers reporting significant benefits in Jetta/Bora sedans, so all cars benefit from chassis/unibody bracing. It is important to remember that our cars are not racing cars and have rather humble beginnings as economy cars. The chassis/unibody of the base golf is no different than the Golf R while its power is significantly increased. When you change suspensions, ECU tunes, wheels, tires, and brakes you are significantly increasing stresses on the car past its basic design parameters.
If any of you have doubts about the efficacy of UNIbrace products please spend some time and read our testimonials page: http://unibrace.com/testimonials/ (http://unibrace.com/testimonials/) as well as http://unibrace.com/philosophy/ (http://unibrace.com/philosophy/) and http://unibrace.com/faq/ (http://unibrace.com/faq/)
Bruce
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Bruce has informed me that the Mk7 platform XBQ is also included in a potential GB, and will be priced the same as the XB/XB3 at US$360 shipped.
Do we have any more interest from PQ35 chassis (Mk5/Mk6) or MQB chassis (Mk7) owners?
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I'm still interested how long would they take to come over etc? When is the deal looking to happen?
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I'm still interested how long would they take to come over etc? When is the deal looking to happen?
Waiting for a little more interest before I trouble a mod.
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So how many have we got at the moment then
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Flash. I have called snake oil on these things before. Waste of money if you ask me. Perfectly suitable for the "must have all the mods" owners tho.
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Flash. I have called snake oil on these things before. Waste of money if you ask me. Perfectly suitable for the "must have all the mods" owners tho.
What makes you come to that conclusion? Have you got one/driven a car with and without one back to back? A few years ago AKS Alex mentioned he was considering producing something similar which tells me there must be something in it.
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Flash. I have called snake oil on these things before. Waste of money if you ask me. Perfectly suitable for the "must have all the mods" owners tho.
What makes you come to that conclusion? Have you got one/driven a car with and without one back to back? A few years ago AKS Alex mentioned he was considering producing something similar which tells me there must be something in it.
If he thought there was money in it why wouldn't he? ;-)
I asked someone to do a simple experiment whilst fitting the UB. It fell of deaf ears. No one wanted to do it. CBA explaining but if you search the old threads it's all there.
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Flash. I have called snake oil on these things before. Waste of money if you ask me. Perfectly suitable for the "must have all the mods" owners tho.
I can see how the Mk4 might benefit from 'something' extra to stiffen it up, as I mentioned earlier.
Sometimes things become supplied to a market where there's a demand rather than a need. Not saying that's the case with these, but scepticism is usually best!
I've suggested to the OP that this may not give what's required whilst trying to be respectful of his preference for modifying.
I've read the testimonials page on that site and I notice that the majority are from VW Vortex without specific vehicle details. There's a handful of Mk6's reviewed and Mk5's.
I'll be genuinely interested to hear honest opinions, but I may not rush out and buy some of these things! :happy2:
On balance, very rarely (if ever) have I read a review of a product where it's admitted that the reviewer has wasted a boat load of money for no gain. Surely this means that every modification ever done is a rapturous success!?
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I lost interest when I read on their website... "Stiffer is always better!"
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I'm sure that some chassis compliance is a good thing, certainly hasn't hurt the new mx5 for example.
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I lost interest when I read on their website... "Stiffer is always better!"
Phnar phnar
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Flash. I have called snake oil on these things before. Waste of money if you ask me. Perfectly suitable for the "must have all the mods" owners tho.
What makes you come to that conclusion? Have you got one/driven a car with and without one back to back? A few years ago AKS Alex mentioned he was considering producing something similar which tells me there must be something in it.
If he thought there was money in it why wouldn't he? ;-)
I asked someone to do a simple experiment whilst fitting the UB. It fell of deaf ears. No one wanted to do it. CBA explaining but if you search the old threads it's all there.
Alex usually makes or endorses products because he uses it on his own car. Aside from that I trust him!
In regards to the experiment you mention I've found some reference to you being sceptical about the underbody bracing and tbh I am too. I'm mainly interested in the XB.
Flash. I have called snake oil on these things before. Waste of money if you ask me. Perfectly suitable for the "must have all the mods" owners tho.
I can see how the Mk4 might benefit...
On balance, very rarely (if ever) have I read a review of a product where it's admitted that the reviewer has wasted a boat load of money for no gain. Surely this means that every modification ever done is a rapturous success!?
The same thing that makes it of benefit in the Mk4 surely makes it of benefit in the Mk5? A hatchback design has a large gaping hole in it. Putting some sort of bracing there WILL stiffen the car. It may not be important or noticeable, but the only way to test that is to test two identical chassis to destruction both with the Unibrace fitted and without.
When it comes to reviews, I think if you were to waste a bucket of money on something you would just keep quiet about it. If you like a product you'll take the time and effort to endorse it. There are plenty of positive reviews out there from PQ35 chassis car owners which seem to say the car has noticeable benefits and the sorts of benefits that I'm looking for. That is enough for me to want to try it.
I understand you feel differently and that is absolutely fine but you've not really said anything to convince me your opinion is more correct. "I don't see the point." is a perfectly valid way to feel, but there are plenty of people who have actually tried it and like it. With the greatest respect I'd take their opinion more seriously.
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Usually once people have paid money for something, there is a placebo.
I am happy for someone to buy one and do my test and prove me wrong and i will shut up about it. Until then it remains a waste of money for me.
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The benefits to both are somewhat different. The mk4 was and is proven to be a much less rigid chassis than the mk5. The mk5 was after all the GTI's great comeback, as I'm sure we all know! :love:
This device was initially developed with the mk4 in mind to resolve an inherent problem and it may be fair to assume it met the designers specification and requirement since development and manufacturing will have cost money and it had a successful market launch.
The debate here is the effectiveness of the porting across to other platforms and the separation of this from marketings base principal - supply and demand.
Destructive testing would prove ultimately which is stiffer but this is fails to test the car as a new quantity. You would simply be checking to see that an effect is present, not how it has affected the dynamics of a complete car. Therefore testing of this type is pointless. Far better to put the car in the hands of a skilled test driver who is capable of technical analysis in the right environment.
Quote: 'When it comes to reviews, I think if you were to waste a bucket of money on something you would just keep quiet about it.' - This is exactly my point, and were it not the case then the value of honest revues and forums would increase x10 fold.
I'll be happy to be enlightened with an honest revue, if of course everybody who has one doesn't keep quiet :wink:
I do trackdays at Goodwood fairly often, if I offered you a session as a passenger I'm fairly sure you'd step out of the car convinced it was absolutely fine, thank you very much. For me I would want to see before and after lap times and comments on feedback and handling from a pro driver.
My point is feeling a difference might not amount to making a positive difference. They're not mutually exclusive.
The mk5 is a stiff chassis to start with with softer more customer friendly wider market appropriate peripherals bolted on to it, so consequently it responds well to some changes. The mk4 however was a soft car by design and so has much more fundamental chassis issues to overcome.
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Your point was that people must give things positive reviews because they spent money on them. I said that's not likely to be the case - if you wasted money you'd probably keep shtum about it. You then agreed with me and said that's what you said :confused:
We'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion, but in the same way I wouldn't take your advice on a restaurant you've never been to I'm not going to take much heed of a modification you've no experience of. It's all well and good saying you have been to other restaurants (or have other modifications you're happy with in this case) and I'd gladly listen to your opinion of those. It's not really relevant to the discussion however.
The best information we have is from people who actually have the mod and intuition says it should have an effect. The effect be negligible or not good value for money but those are also entirely separate arguments and difficult to quantify. Even lap times have too many factors to really answer the question objectively.
Anyhow after that flaming if there is any further interest in this GB I'd be appreciative if people could get in touch.
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Your point was that people must give things positive reviews because they spent money on them. I said that's not likely to be the case - if you wasted money you'd probably keep shtum about it. You then agreed with me and said that's what you said :confused:
We'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion, but in the same way I wouldn't take your advice on a restaurant you've never been to I'm not going to take much heed of a modification you've no experience of. It's all well and good saying you have been to other restaurants (or have other modifications you're happy with in this case) and I'd gladly listen to your opinion of those. It's not really relevant to the discussion however.
The best information we have is from people who actually have the mod and intuition says it should have an effect. The effect be negligible or not good value for money but those are also entirely separate arguments and difficult to quantify. Even lap times have too many factors to really answer the question objectively.
Anyhow after that flaming if there is any further interest in this GB I'd be appreciative if people could get in touch.
I did agree with you. Most people won't admit wasting money but I suggested it would be useful that if they did they should speak up to prevent others wasting money. This is what I actually said 'On balance, very rarely (if ever) have I read a review of a product where it's admitted that the reviewer has wasted a boat load of money for no gain.' I still haven't said these are ineffective and have even suggested that they may have met the designers expectation when applied to the mk4.
I might concede that under some circumstance a front strut brace made from steel can be effective.
You're right, I have no experience of this modification but I have said I'll be happy to be enlightened.
I'm not flaming you and I haven't told you that you'll be wasting your money. :smiley:
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Alright guys I've managed to get permission to post this group buy over on the VAGOC UK forum as well so think we should get the numbers. I've asked Rich for permission to set up a thread in the GB section of the forum. I'll post in there as soon as permission has been received.
Thanks