Manual/dsg power delivery

[Chris92]

Let's say 2 mk6 r's both running stage 2+ One manual and one dsg, which one gives you more of that real throw/push back into your seat feel? Is there any differents?

Not sure if it's me or I just prefer the manual push back feel instead of one long surge of power but I always feel the dsg doesn't give you the same feel of power compared to the manual.

[l8mmy]

Funny you mention that. I had an manual R56 Cooper S, 0-60 7.1 seconds and that felt faster than my DSG gti.
I'd like to know others thoughts.

[petesimcock]

My mk5 is dsg and I find that it feels fast in a kind of no let up kind of way. Once the power is on it just keeps on going right up to silly speeds with no drama.

[rich83]

In a single gear? Should be the same.

Over 2/3 gears the DSG will pull away due to zero gearshift times, and on boost constantly.

[Chris92]

Not sure I've explained it to get the answer I'm looking for, yes I know dsg will slowly pull ahead and is just one constant surge of power.

I've been in my pals mk6 r dsg as a passenger running 365 r tech horses and what I mean if I had a manual r with same kind of power would it feel faster (not meaning actual faster) ,more of a push in your seat? I find dsg very boring to drive and was expecting more of a ram back in my seat so was just wondering if this didn't happen as much because of how the dsg is. By the way it's still brutal fast compared and makes my new car purchase so hard.

Eg. Mk5 gti and mk2 focus st, I find the st has a much deeper push back feel when you accelerate compared to the mk 5 gti. That's what I'm trying to get at above with the manual and dsg.

[rich83]

IT probably feels quicker due to the on/off/on nature of manual shift. DSG is just one long push in the back

[PM30S]

I own a Revo stage 2+ eddy with near 400lbs of torque.
My eddy is DSG I looked hard for a DSG eddy due to tuning as the clutches and box can take the extra grunt standard from the factory.
A manual eddy cannot. Budget a grand for a new clutch.
A friend has a stage 2 eddy tuned by another tuner running different software to mine, his car is a manual and it only feels faster in 2nd gear.
A DSG car feels far better in all the other gears its far more effortless in a DSG eddy.
The car almost feels better made with a DSG box.
My mate says mine feels far more relaxed than his car when you are hard accelerating.
I would personally go for a DSG box as I love the drive of the car when driving normally. Which is most of the time. Plus I love the sound of the exhaust note on a tuned DSG car when it changes gear.

[Madone]

Interesting question. I have had many dsg cars over time and recently and before my eddy a TTRS with dsg. I specially went for a manual eddy as I didn't feel dsg offers the same experience you talk about on a tuned car. My eddy is stage 2+ and hence has masses of midrange that really throws you back in the seat. With a manual you can pick the gear you want, put your foot down, wait for the boost to build, then wham you off. You get that whole rush of speed. With dsg (in auto mode) the box will always shift down to the optimal gear, so you skip the build up and thrust feeling, you just get the thrust. Not sure I explained it well there, but as you said it doesn't feel as fast, or maybe exciting as a manual. You can obviously put the dsg in manual but I never really got on with driving in manual the whole time. Even in my TTRS at 400bhp I tended to leave it in auto most of the time. Then when you wanted to axel you out your foot down and the box would change down. Dsg is great but for a tuned car I def think manual is more fun. My wife's car is dsg and I wouldn't change it to a manual. I really like dsg, but in answer to your question. Manual feels faster. Maybe others drive all the time in manual on a dsg car, but I didn't get on with that. Seemed hard to 'get a feel' for it. 

Hopefully this makes some sense ! ;)

[Beej]

Would you not get that same impression from a dsg with a dsg map though, as this would disable auto downshift if in manual mode, so effectively allows you to select a gear and wait for the boost to build like in a manual???

[Madone]

Even without a dsg map the gearbox won't downshift in manual mode. My experience  with dsg (in auto mode) is that when you have 7 gears it is very quick to downshift when you a accelerate (which makes sense) Which is what it is supposed to to to get into the optimum rev range. But this down shift means you can't ride the torque curve as it builds. It just drops you to the peak area. Which makes for a very urgent, almost jerky way to accelerate. Whereas with a manual you can stick in a higher gear, plant the throttle and ride the torque as it builds. As I said you can do this with dsg in manual mode, but driving all the time in manual mode is not as intuitive as driving a manual gearbox.

On a tuned turbocharged car with slugs of midrange torque a manual feels better to me, but for a car without that swell of midrange when the boost builds I would say dsg is better all round. maybe if the dsg remap reduced rhe gearboxes tendencies to downshift it might be better, but I don't think the remaps to that. I think they increase the torque levels so you can run more power and they change the fact the gearbox will up shift at the redline (even in manual mode). This way you can bounce of the limiter whilst holding the gear for example.

[Beej]

Even without a dsg map the gearbox won't downshift in manual mode. My experience  with dsg (in auto mode) is that when you have 7 gears it is very quick to downshift when you a accelerate (which makes sense) Which is what it is supposed to to to get into the optimum rev range. But this down shift means you can't ride the torque curve as it builds. It just drops you to the peak area. Which makes for a very urgent, almost jerky way to accelerate. Whereas with a manual you can stick in a higher gear, plant the throttle and ride the torque as it builds. As I said you can do this with dsg in manual mode, but driving all the time in manual mode is not as intuitive as driving a manual gearbox.

On a tuned turbocharged car with slugs of midrange torque a manual feels better to me, but for a car without that swell of midrange when the boost builds I would say dsg is better all round. maybe if the dsg remap reduced rhe gearboxes tendencies to downshift it might be better, but I don't think the remaps to that. I think they increase the torque levels so you can run more power and they change the fact the gearbox will up shift at the redline (even in manual mode). This way you can bounce of the limiter whilst holding the gear for example.

My dsg is not mapped, in manual mode, it will downshift unless you only use 3/4 throttle or less......

[Madone]

Even without a dsg map the gearbox won't downshift in manual mode. My experience  with dsg (in auto mode) is that when you have 7 gears it is very quick to downshift when you a accelerate (which makes sense) Which is what it is supposed to to to get into the optimum rev range. But this down shift means you can't ride the torque curve as it builds. It just drops you to the peak area. Which makes for a very urgent, almost jerky way to accelerate. Whereas with a manual you can stick in a higher gear, plant the throttle and ride the torque as it builds. As I said you can do this with dsg in manual mode, but driving all the time in manual mode is not as intuitive as driving a manual gearbox.

On a tuned turbocharged car with slugs of midrange torque a manual feels better to me, but for a car without that swell of midrange when the boost builds I would say dsg is better all round. maybe if the dsg remap reduced rhe gearboxes tendencies to downshift it might be better, but I don't think the remaps to that. I think they increase the torque levels so you can run more power and they change the fact the gearbox will up shift at the redline (even in manual mode). This way you can bounce of the limiter whilst holding the gear for example.

My dsg is not mapped, in manual mode, it will downshift unless you only use 3/4 throttle or less......

That doesn't sound right, there is a kickdown button at the very end of the throttle that will as you say force a kick down in manual mode, but it should be fairly obvious you are pushing against that before you activate it and force a kick down. All the dsg cars I have had you can clearly push against that point to obtain full throttle, then push harder to gain the kick down. You should def be able to achieve full throttle without any kickdown happening. Unless your throttle pedal is defective I guess and you can't feel the resistance change for the kickdown. It should be very obvious.

[Beej]

Even without a dsg map the gearbox won't downshift in manual mode. My experience  with dsg (in auto mode) is that when you have 7 gears it is very quick to downshift when you a accelerate (which makes sense) Which is what it is supposed to to to get into the optimum rev range. But this down shift means you can't ride the torque curve as it builds. It just drops you to the peak area. Which makes for a very urgent, almost jerky way to accelerate. Whereas with a manual you can stick in a higher gear, plant the throttle and ride the torque as it builds. As I said you can do this with dsg in manual mode, but driving all the time in manual mode is not as intuitive as driving a manual gearbox.

On a tuned turbocharged car with slugs of midrange torque a manual feels better to me, but for a car without that swell of midrange when the boost builds I would say dsg is better all round. maybe if the dsg remap reduced rhe gearboxes tendencies to downshift it might be better, but I don't think the remaps to that. I think they increase the torque levels so you can run more power and they change the fact the gearbox will up shift at the redline (even in manual mode). This way you can bounce of the limiter whilst holding the gear for example.

My dsg is not mapped, in manual mode, it will downshift unless you only use 3/4 throttle or less......

That doesn't sound right, there is a kickdown button at the very end of the throttle that will as you say force a kick down in manual mode, but it should be fairly obvious you are pushing against that before you activate it and force a kick down. All the dsg cars I have had you can clearly push against that point to obtain full throttle, then push harder to gain the kick down. You should def be able to achieve full throttle without any kickdown happening. Unless your throttle pedal is defective I guess and you can't feel the resistance change for the kickdown. It should be very obvious.

Yep, know when I've reached the kickdown certainly, but, as it's been a while since I actually tried it, I'm sure that unless you are gentle with the throttle and progressively press it down until around 3,000rpm, it just wanted to kick down. Might need to double check that now, weather is not ideal though and it just spins up all the time!